The Philosophy of Nikon Df

Started 8 months ago | Discussions
raztec
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Re: D is for Digital, F is for film.
In reply to lolopasstrail, 8 months ago

lolopasstrail wrote:

lolopasstrail wrote:

I really like the experience of shooting with my Df, overpriced though it was. ...

But one of its best features it that it drives ordinary people nuts.

We're now starting to see an even funnier phenomenon. Since their attempts to bash the camera have failed, and reports are coming in of people liking the Df very very much, instead of backing off the detractors have doubled down.

They now feel fit to psychoanalyze all customers of the Df. The buyers of the Df are all this, or all that, and in any event more ignorant and less wise than I am. We see it not only in forum posters, but in some famous bloggers, including a famous Nikon blogger just yesterday.

Df users who like their cameras and decided to keep them instead of returning them or selling them, are victims of their own self delusion because since they paid so much money they are now mindlessly enslaved by that expenditure and feel compelled to justify it. Df users are unique in this, whereas if you use other model cameras you just like them because you are cleverer than those Df robots.

It's getting silly. As more and more people enjoy the Df, instead of just admitting they were mistaken, they get more and more tied up with their previous statements, and for some strange reason get angry at foolish Df users.

From a distance, they seem to be somehow wrapped up in their own dogma. I mean, why do they even care about some model they don't care about, why the sudden concern about the sanity of people who buy different consumer luxury toy models than they do? It's.... odd.

I see your point. Apologies for insulting you or other Df owners.

The truth is that the anger (or extreme disappointment rather) is directed at Nikon which many of us believe has dressed up a great sensor in poorly conceived design with crippled features and is then charging an exorbitant amount for it. For us it's got greed and pretentiousness written all over it.

But by association, the anger gets directed at Df owners as well who have bought into this philosophy. That is wrong, I agree. The only rationale I can see for this is that when people buy this camera it sends a message to Nikon that what they are doing is ok. Perhaps this is misplaced because Nikon are only responding to a small segment of photographers. But what we are afraid of is that they'll continue to follow on this path of giving us pretentious and crippled cameras instead of small form full featured pro cameras like the D300 or D700.

That is all.

Raz

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ravduc
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Re: D is for Digital, F is for film.
In reply to raztec, 8 months ago

Raztec, I think you should stop using the word 'cripple'. You find this camera crippled, I don't. What you do not seem to understand, is that by calling this camera 'crippled', you are in fact implying that we DF buyers don't know anything about cameras and have been ripped off by Nikon. This is where your comments become insulting. The DF is lacking certain features for you, but not for me. I know just as much about cameras as you. I have been using them for almost 40 years.

I really think that the DF was aimed at a specific type of photographer with specific needs. Imho  my purchasing of this camera will have no impact on the variety of cameras that will be offered by Nikon in the future. They will continue to make cameras like the D4 or D800 and will cater if need be to buyers like myself. Nothing wrong with that!

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dread_tai
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Re: D is for Digital, F is for film.
In reply to ravduc, 8 months ago

ravduc wrote:

Raztec, I think you should stop using the word 'cripple'. You find this camera crippled, I don't. What you do not seem to understand, is that by calling this camera 'crippled', you are in fact implying that we DF buyers don't know anything about cameras and have been ripped off by Nikon. This is where your comments become insulting. The DF is lacking certain features for you, but not for me. I know just as much about cameras as you. I have been using them for almost 40 years.

I really think that the DF was aimed at a specific type of photographer with specific needs. Imho  my purchasing of this camera will have no impact on the variety of cameras that will be offered by Nikon in the future. They will continue to make cameras like the D4 or D800 and will cater if need be to buyers like myself. Nothing wrong with that!

i simply cannot understand how ANYONE can feel "insulted" by the words of someone who is a complete and utter stranger to all of u. i don't understand how anyone can allow someone's views on a camera, regardless of pro or con, to have such personal emotional effects on someone else. why do U or anyone else care what Raztec or anyone else has written here or elsewhere, to the point of u feeling "insulted"? if u don't agree, and believe the comment(s) do not pertain to u, then so what?!

i've said it before, and i'll say it again: some of u take this place, et al, and your "gear" way too serious, and way too personal. your gear is NOT your spouse, your gear is not your parent, and your gear is not your child. so quit acting so emotional and up in arms over an OPINION by someone else. this is the INTERNET, and not your "real" world, or at least i hope not.

enjoy what u have, for whatever reasons U HAVE, and what does it matter what someone else thinks?

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Andrewteee
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Keen observations indeed
In reply to eNo, 8 months ago

eNo wrote:

The keenest observation about the Df is how aptly it fulfills the poser mentality that infuses forums like this one and all but obscures clear-eyed considerations about what photography is about. In that sense, Nikon is tapping into a real market, namely that which is sustained by utter boredom-driven search for the next latest-and-greatest gadget.

The keenest observation I've encountered is that the Df is simply a camera and cameras take pictures. But I've also observed that a few people try hard to be clever when they criticize the Df or the photographers who enjoy using it.

But I'm curious... what are these clear-eyed considerations about what photography is all about?

Tip: gadgets don't capture life. Hearts and vision do.

What does a statement like that even mean? That we don't need gadgets to take pictures/capture life? I suppose that is true... unless you're referring to capturing through memory only, simple pencil and paper will certainly capture life, either through words or pictures.

And if hearts and vision is all that we need, but we still like to take pictures, then all we need is our iPhones. What do you think?

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jjnik
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Re: D is for Digital, F is for film.
In reply to dread_tai, 8 months ago

dread_tai wrote:

ravduc wrote:

Raztec, I think you should stop using the word 'cripple'. You find this camera crippled, I don't. What you do not seem to understand, is that by calling this camera 'crippled', you are in fact implying that we DF buyers don't know anything about cameras and have been ripped off by Nikon. This is where your comments become insulting. The DF is lacking certain features for you, but not for me. I know just as much about cameras as you. I have been using them for almost 40 years.

I really think that the DF was aimed at a specific type of photographer with specific needs. Imho my purchasing of this camera will have no impact on the variety of cameras that will be offered by Nikon in the future. They will continue to make cameras like the D4 or D800 and will cater if need be to buyers like myself. Nothing wrong with that!

i simply cannot understand how ANYONE can feel "insulted" by the words of someone who is a complete and utter stranger to all of u. i don't understand how anyone can allow someone's views on a camera, regardless of pro or con, to have such personal emotional effects on someone else. why do U or anyone else care what Raztec or anyone else has written here or elsewhere, to the point of u feeling "insulted"? if u don't agree, and believe the comment(s) do not pertain to u, then so what?!

i've said it before, and i'll say it again: some of u take this place, et al, and your "gear" way too serious, and way too personal. your gear is NOT your spouse, your gear is not your parent, and your gear is not your child. so quit acting so emotional and up in arms over an OPINION by someone else. this is the INTERNET, and not your "real" world, or at least i hope not.

enjoy what u have, for whatever reasons U HAVE, and what does it matter what someone else thinks?

Yup - never understand how people can be offended hy the rantings of strangers either!

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Shotcents
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Re: D is for Digital, F is for film.
In reply to dread_tai, 8 months ago

dread_tai wrote:

ravduc wrote:

Raztec, I think you should stop using the word 'cripple'. You find this camera crippled, I don't. What you do not seem to understand, is that by calling this camera 'crippled', you are in fact implying that we DF buyers don't know anything about cameras and have been ripped off by Nikon. This is where your comments become insulting. The DF is lacking certain features for you, but not for me. I know just as much about cameras as you. I have been using them for almost 40 years.

I really think that the DF was aimed at a specific type of photographer with specific needs. Imho my purchasing of this camera will have no impact on the variety of cameras that will be offered by Nikon in the future. They will continue to make cameras like the D4 or D800 and will cater if need be to buyers like myself. Nothing wrong with that!

i simply cannot understand how ANYONE can feel "insulted" by the words of someone who is a complete and utter stranger to all of u. i don't understand how anyone can allow someone's views on a camera, regardless of pro or con, to have such personal emotional effects on someone else. why do U or anyone else care what Raztec or anyone else has written here or elsewhere, to the point of u feeling "insulted"? if u don't agree, and believe the comment(s) do not pertain to u, then so what?!

People clearly blow off steam here.

You get to give strong opinions without getting smacked in the head.

i've said it before, and i'll say it again: some of u take this place, et al, and your "gear" way too serious, and way too personal. your gear is NOT your spouse, your gear is not your parent, and your gear is not your child. so quit acting so emotional and up in arms over an OPINION by someone else. this is the INTERNET, and not your "real" world, or at least i hope not.

The internet can intrude on the real world, distract from or augment it. It's up to the individual. It's all good fun to me, but then I'm not a very serious person much of the time.

enjoy what u have, for whatever reasons U HAVE, and what does it matter what someone else thinks?

I so agree with this. Someone has more, many have less. If I'm unlucky, then I'm the luckiest unlucky person on Earth....something my grandmother used to say. Boy was she a PIA!

Robert

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Patrick McMahon
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Re: D is for Digital, F is for film.
In reply to ravduc, 8 months ago

ravduc wrote:

Raztec, I think you should stop using the word 'cripple'. You find this camera crippled, I don't. What you do not seem to understand, is that by calling this camera 'crippled', you are in fact implying that we DF buyers don't know anything about cameras and have been ripped off by Nikon. This is where your comments become insulting. The DF is lacking certain features for you, but not for me.

I have seen people who are lacking legs ski down a slope better than many.

I reiterate, I love my Df - really, have it with me always - rediscovering my favorite hobby - in a new way... just very happy with this camera. <- It should be pretty clear where I stand.

BUT- I believe Nikon "limited" (insert "handicapped", "crippled", "no limitation" etc. based on your opinion) this camera with the autofocus and the shutter speed. I have come to this conclusion after shooting with it a lot.

I shoot 1.4 primes and yes I do want 1/8000, and it has come up. The AF should be 51 pt.

As far as developing the cramps, not understanding how to adjust the aperture, or being completely flummoxed that the dial may read a different shutter when in A mode - These I can't speak to nor comprehend from someone familiar with the camera/manual.

But the AF and 1/4000 are by definition limitations placed on me. They handicap my shooting vs. the D700. And as such it is not unreasonable for one to say that the Df is crippled. I could care less about a second slot, lock buttons, etc. But I want Nikon to address these 2 things in any future remakes... Yes, I hope this is a permanent line, that is how much I like it.

Enjoy!

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Josh152
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Re: Philosophy is Overrated?
In reply to philharris, 8 months ago

philharris wrote:

Josh152 wrote:

kevingm wrote:

That said the Df is mostly a camera for people who are nostalgic for and/or romanticize the film days and want to (re)capture that feeling but don't want to mess with film or for people of the "look at me I'm using a REAL camera unlike all those posers!" mentality who with the Df can still feel superior without actually having to resort to using film or spend enough for a pretty good used car on a Leica.

It's great that you have figured out the reason the people who have bought a Df have one. I have that same skill. The people who bought the camera that you have did so mostly to feel superior to other camera owners. I don't have a Df, although I'm considering it. Since I have a 4x5, I already have the retro and nostalgic and romanticizing taken care of. I'm thinking of the Df mainly for the great sensor at half the price of the only other camera that has that sensor. I've got a D700, and I have no problem using it. I had 35mm cameras with dials, and didn't have any problem with those, either. I actually don't have a problem with you using the camera you like. It seems a little strange for people to insult other people for deciding that they prefer using different cameras.

LOL I was describing the market the Df was meant for not personally insulting anyone grow up.

Josh, if you can't understand how someone could feel insulted by what you wrote, then I would suggest you are the one with some growing up to do

Frankly if my mere description of the market the Df is clearly (at least  to anyone being objective about it)  meant for is taken as in an insult to someone it says more aobut them than it does about me.

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Josh152
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Re: D is for Digital, F is for film.
In reply to dread_tai, 8 months ago

dread_tai wrote:

ravduc wrote:

Raztec, I think you should stop using the word 'cripple'. You find this camera crippled, I don't. What you do not seem to understand, is that by calling this camera 'crippled', you are in fact implying that we DF buyers don't know anything about cameras and have been ripped off by Nikon. This is where your comments become insulting. The DF is lacking certain features for you, but not for me. I know just as much about cameras as you. I have been using them for almost 40 years.

I really think that the DF was aimed at a specific type of photographer with specific needs. Imho my purchasing of this camera will have no impact on the variety of cameras that will be offered by Nikon in the future. They will continue to make cameras like the D4 or D800 and will cater if need be to buyers like myself. Nothing wrong with that!

i simply cannot understand how ANYONE can feel "insulted" by the words of someone who is a complete and utter stranger to all of u. i don't understand how anyone can allow someone's views on a camera, regardless of pro or con, to have such personal emotional effects on someone else. why do U or anyone else care what Raztec or anyone else has written here or elsewhere, to the point of u feeling "insulted"? if u don't agree, and believe the comment(s) do not pertain to u, then so what?!

i've said it before, and i'll say it again: some of u take this place, et al, and your "gear" way too serious, and way too personal. your gear is NOT your spouse, your gear is not your parent, and your gear is not your child. so quit acting so emotional and up in arms over an OPINION by someone else. this is the INTERNET, and not your "real" world, or at least i hope not.

enjoy what u have, for whatever reasons U HAVE, and what does it matter what someone else thinks?

Exactly!

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Josh152
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Re: D is for Digital, F is for film.
In reply to Patrick McMahon, 8 months ago

Patrick McMahon wrote:

ravduc wrote:

Raztec, I think you should stop using the word 'cripple'. You find this camera crippled, I don't. What you do not seem to understand, is that by calling this camera 'crippled', you are in fact implying that we DF buyers don't know anything about cameras and have been ripped off by Nikon. This is where your comments become insulting. The DF is lacking certain features for you, but not for me.

I have seen people who are lacking legs ski down a slope better than many.

I reiterate, I love my Df - really, have it with me always - rediscovering my favorite hobby - in a new way... just very happy with this camera. <- It should be pretty clear where I stand.

BUT- I believe Nikon "limited" (insert "handicapped", "crippled", "no limitation" etc. based on your opinion) this camera with the autofocus and the shutter speed. I have come to this conclusion after shooting with it a lot.

I shoot 1.4 primes and yes I do want 1/8000, and it has come up. The AF should be 51 pt.

As far as developing the cramps, not understanding how to adjust the aperture, or being completely flummoxed that the dial may read a different shutter when in A mode - These I can't speak to nor comprehend from someone familiar with the camera/manual.

But the AF and 1/4000 are by definition limitations placed on me. They handicap my shooting vs. the D700. And as such it is not unreasonable for one to say that the Df is crippled. I could care less about a second slot, lock buttons, etc. But I want Nikon to address these 2 things in any future remakes... Yes, I hope this is a permanent line, that is how much I like it.

Enjoy!

Well it's all relative to price.  I mean the D610 isn't called crippled with those same limitations because everyone understands it's because of the price point.  The Df's problem is it is priced at a level where you would traditionally get the 1/8000 shutter and 51 point AF.  On a camera that cost as much as a D800 having 1/4000 and the 39 point AF just feels cheesy and like Nikon was being cheap with the specs to maximize profits.

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