The Philosophy of Nikon Df

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
optic67
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Re: It really is quite simple...
In reply to Simon Garrett, 11 months ago

Simon Garrett wrote:

Mr Gadget wrote:

If it works for you, buy it.

If it doesn't work for you, don't buy it.

Quite.

This whole topic has been ground to death.

Certainly has, but we (you and I and all others posting here) are adding to the grinding! I guess we find it fun...

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Simon

" i guess we find it fun"     sure know how to enjoy yourself then , great crack as they say in the

emerald isle.

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ravduc
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Re: this is why I now use D610 as backup to my D4 & passed on the DF
In reply to jenella, 11 months ago

You can program the fn button to switch back and forth from auto iso to manual iso. As for setting max. auto iso this can be done in menu and the dial will set your minimum starting iso. For example in A mode if your dial is set at 200 your iso will adjust automatically from iso 200 up to your in menu maximum auto iso. If you want to raise your starting iso to for example 800, you just set the dial at 800 and your auto will start at 800 up to your max. in menu iso. Thom never mentions this in his review.

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eastvillager
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Re: You must have known...
In reply to ravduc, 11 months ago

I think Kai and Ming are just trying to make fun of the fanboys who like the DF. In reality the camera is a joke with so many problems it's hard to believe anyone would buy it. But to defend it is even more absurd and I think serious photographers or reviewers think people who defend the camera open themselves up to ridicule for being so naive. If I had a camera I loved I wouldn't be on here taking all the mud slinging. I had a Fujix100. I drank the cool aid and bought it and sold it in a month. It sucked. Slow and terrible focus. I didn't defend it. I said it was poorly designed. Many like on here defended it.  I guess for some it's hard to admit you bought the hype and made a mistake. If I bought a DF and got blindsided by the Nikon brand I'd bite the bullet and sell it quick to recoup my money. With so many wonderful cameras out there such as the D4 and D800 which I own and use and the D610 which I don't but seems to be a bargain for what it gives you, you'd have to have drank the cool aid to be suckered into thinking the DF is nothing more then a complete failure. I use cameras for work. My D3 had 250,000 actuations when I bought my D4. Buying a DF sends a message to the camera companies that hype beats quality and I and many others think to support the hype by buying a misfit of a camera only encourages them to manufacture even more crap. Unlike the D4 and D800 there was no waiting list to buy the DF. Even though Nikon Professional Services sent out a blast to reserve one they were there for the taking since no pro wanted them. The D4 and D800 had waiting lists for months and months even if you were an NPS member. With the choices available no pro in his right mind would shoot with such a convoluted operating system that the DF employes. When I need to change controls quickly I need the buttons at my fingertips not some two handed juggling act of a camera. Sorry.

ravduc wrote:

You have just hit the nail on it's head. My fealings as well. Kai and Ming made unwarranted comments about DF buyers and users. Proper reviewers review cameras and not the users. Many in this forum are doing exactly the same.

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jjnik
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Re: It really is quite simple...
In reply to Mr Gadget, 11 months ago

Mr Gadget wrote:

The Df is what it is...

If it works for you, buy it.

If it doesn't work for you, don't buy it.

Pretty simple, at least to me.

This whole topic has been ground to death.

BTW: I was among the group that was disappointed with how the Df was executed and priced, once it was clear what it did and didn't do, I went on with my life.

It's just a camera.

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Conrad
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Best comments on the Df debate to date!

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Rick_Hunter
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Re: The Philosophy of Nikon Df
In reply to gotompoes, 11 months ago

gotompoes wrote:

Rick_Hunter wrote:

The Df philosophy? Quick & easy: "Oh, look, retro is the new cool now! Let's take a D600, remove video, popup flash, 2nd card slot, AF assist light, let's swap the sensor with the D4's, stick everything into a (not-so-well-built) retro body full of clicky dials, and let's ask the same money as a D800/D800E"

Nothing more than that, really. This is the marketing philosophy behind it in a nutshell.

Not so well built ???
As a Leica user i can only say that the DF has an excellent build quality at the same level as an E M1.
Did you use a DF ???

Yes I used one.

Build quality is just a hair better than a D600. It actually is the same build quality but with a magnesium alloy bottom instead of a plastic one. The core frame of the camera is still made of plastic like in the D600/D610, so build quality is nowhere near D800 / D700 / D3 /D3S / D4 levels. Oh and I did not mention the Df's flimsy battery door that seems like falling off each time you open it....

Frankly from a stripped-down, basic DSRL with a near 3K price tag I would have expected far, far better build quality.

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Jay Paul H
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Re: The Philosophy of Nikon Df
In reply to brianric, 11 months ago

brianric wrote:

nikonuserinfo wrote:

D4 sensor isn't anything special among these great generation of Nikon (Sony) sensors. It's a perfect compromise for file size and speed of the D4. That they put that sensor in Df is partly marketing (to suggest that you buy a D4 for half of the price, which is a joke ogf course) but most of all to maximize rendability of the development cost of D4 sensor. Both D610 and D800 sensors are significantly better at low iso.

Some of us bought the Df because of the Df sensor, considering 50% of the time I'm shooting at ISO 5000 or higher, and yes, I have a D800 & D800E, and use that when shooting below ISO 3200.

Same here. Low ISO performance is covered by the D800. High ISO the Df. IF one does not require the high FPS or the rugged build of the D4, the Df IS actually half the price of a D4.

I would guess that a large percentage of Df owners are also D800 owners.

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sgoldswo
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Re: The Philosophy of Nikon Df
In reply to Rick_Hunter, 11 months ago

Rick_Hunter wrote:

gotompoes wrote:

Rick_Hunter wrote:

The Df philosophy? Quick & easy: "Oh, look, retro is the new cool now! Let's take a D600, remove video, popup flash, 2nd card slot, AF assist light, let's swap the sensor with the D4's, stick everything into a (not-so-well-built) retro body full of clicky dials, and let's ask the same money as a D800/D800E"

Nothing more than that, really. This is the marketing philosophy behind it in a nutshell.

Not so well built ???
As a Leica user i can only say that the DF has an excellent build quality at the same level as an E M1.
Did you use a DF ???

Yes I used one.

Build quality is just a hair better than a D600. It actually is the same build quality but with a magnesium alloy bottom instead of a plastic one. The core frame of the camera is still made of plastic like in the D600/D610, so build quality is nowhere near D800 / D700 / D3 /D3S / D4 levels. Oh and I did not mention the Df's flimsy battery door that seems like falling off each time you open it....

Frankly from a stripped-down, basic DSRL with a near 3K price tag I would have expected far, far better build quality.

I have to disagree - I've owned a D600 and the build quality is substantially different

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inasir1971
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Re: You must have known...
In reply to eastvillager, 11 months ago

eastvillager wrote:

I think Kai and Ming are just trying to make fun of the fanboys who like the DF. In reality the camera is a joke with so many problems it's hard to believe anyone would buy it. But to defend it is even more absurd and I think serious photographers or reviewers think people who defend the camera open themselves up to ridicule for being so naive. If I had a camera I loved I wouldn't be on here taking all the mud slinging. I had a Fujix100. I drank the cool aid and bought it and sold it in a month. It sucked. Slow and terrible focus. I didn't defend it. I said it was poorly designed. Many like on here defended it. I guess for some it's hard to admit you bought the hype and made a mistake. If I bought a DF and got blindsided by the Nikon brand I'd bite the bullet and sell it quick to recoup my money. With so many wonderful cameras out there such as the D4 and D800 which I own and use and the D610 which I don't but seems to be a bargain for what it gives you, you'd have to have drank the cool aid to be suckered into thinking the DF is nothing more then a complete failure. I use cameras for work. My D3 had 250,000 actuations when I bought my D4.

Buying a DF sends a message to the camera companies that hype beats quality and I and many others think to support the hype by buying a misfit of a camera only encourages them to manufacture even more crap.

Herein lies the problem with you and the 'many others' - you just can't seem to accept that not everyone is going to agree with you or vote the way you want.

Unlike the D4 and D800 there was no waiting list to buy the DF. Even though Nikon Professional Services sent out a blast to reserve one they were there for the taking since no pro wanted them. The D4 and D800 had waiting lists for months and months even if you were an NPS member. With the choices available no pro in his right mind would shoot with such a convoluted operating system that the DF employes. When I need to change controls quickly I need the buttons at my fingertips not some two handed juggling act of a camera. Sorry.

ravduc wrote:

You have just hit the nail on it's head. My fealings as well. Kai and Ming made unwarranted comments about DF buyers and users. Proper reviewers review cameras and not the users. Many in this forum are doing exactly the same.

These rants about the Df come across like a spoilt child's tantrum when they didn't get their way.

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brianric
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Re: this is why I now use D610 as backup to my D4 & passed on the DF
In reply to ravduc, 11 months ago

ravduc wrote:

If you want to raise your starting iso to for example 800, you just set the dial at 800 and your auto will start at 800 up to your max. in menu iso. Thom never mentions this in his review.

Except for the dial part, that's no different than any other Nikon DSLR that I own.

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Jay Paul H
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Re: You must have known...
In reply to eastvillager, 11 months ago

eastvillager wrote:

I think Kai and Ming are just trying to make fun of the fanboys who like the DF. In reality the camera is a joke with so many problems it's hard to believe anyone would buy it. But to defend it is even more absurd and I think serious photographers or reviewers think people who defend the camera open themselves up to ridicule for being so naive. If I had a camera I loved I wouldn't be on here taking all the mud slinging. I had a Fujix100. I drank the cool aid and bought it and sold it in a month. It sucked. Slow and terrible focus. I didn't defend it. I said it was poorly designed. Many like on here defended it. I guess for some it's hard to admit you bought the hype and made a mistake. If I bought a DF and got blindsided by the Nikon brand I'd bite the bullet and sell it quick to recoup my money. With so many wonderful cameras out there such as the D4 and D800 which I own and use and the D610 which I don't but seems to be a bargain for what it gives you, you'd have to have drank the cool aid to be suckered into thinking the DF is nothing more then a complete failure. I use cameras for work. My D3 had 250,000 actuations when I bought my D4. Buying a DF sends a message to the camera companies that hype beats quality and I and many others think to support the hype by buying a misfit of a camera only encourages them to manufacture even more crap. Unlike the D4 and D800 there was no waiting list to buy the DF. Even though Nikon Professional Services sent out a blast to reserve one they were there for the taking since no pro wanted them. The D4 and D800 had waiting lists for months and months even if you were an NPS member. With the choices available no pro in his right mind would shoot with such a convoluted operating system that the DF employes. When I need to change controls quickly I need the buttons at my fingertips not some two handed juggling act of a camera. Sorry.

In your defense, I guess if I owned the D4 as you do, I might feel somewhat the same as you do regarding the Df. Your comments regarding waiting lists for the D800 (for example) are understandable since this camera offered advances in resolution unavailable anywhere else AND at an attractive price.
The Df was not designed or intended to be a mainstream camera. As others have pointed out (relentlessly) there is nothing new or advanced in this camera. It is simply a supplemental offering that enables the use of any Nikon F mount lens ever made with exceptional high ISO capability. And knobs.
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eastvillager
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Re: The Philosophy of Nikon Df
In reply to Jay Paul H, 11 months ago

Seems you forgot an awful lot more. How about 51 focus points on the D4 vs. 39 on the DF, D4 has HD video,  D4 has much longer battery life, D4 has 2 storage slots, D4 has faster higher shutter speed 1/8000 sec on D4. Add in your mentioned D4 has twice the FPS and is built like a tank, the DF with its tinker toy buttons is a rip off at half the price.

Same here. Low ISO performance is covered by the D800. High ISO the Df. IF one does not require the high FPS or the rugged build of the D4, the Df IS actually half the price of a D4.

I would guess that a large percentage of Df owners are also D800 owners.

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brianric
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Re: The Philosophy of Nikon Df
In reply to eastvillager, 11 months ago

eastvillager wrote:

Seems you forgot an awful lot more. How about 51 focus points on the D4 vs. 39 on the DF, D4 has HD video, D4 has much longer battery life, D4 has 2 storage slots, D4 has faster higher shutter speed 1/8000 sec on D4. Add in your mentioned D4 has twice the FPS and is built like a tank, the DF with its tinker toy buttons is a rip off at half the price.

Wow. Can the D4 cure cancer too?

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eastvillager
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Re: You must have known...
In reply to inasir1971, 11 months ago

I totally accept the fact that people don't agree with my analysis. But I also have 40 years experience as a photographer and a Nikon user. I even once help test the Nikon D1 before it was released because of my professional experience and knowledge. I was just saying what I feel about the camera. I have no problem you don't agree with my analysis. Who said I did?

I don't see what I said about the DF as a rant or why do I sound like a spoiled child? Because I think it's a crappy camera? I'm sorry is everything a winner and any negative reviews are considered to be a tantrum? The only person off base here is you.

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philharris
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Re: You must have known...
In reply to eastvillager, 11 months ago

eastvillager wrote:

I think Kai and Ming are just trying to make fun of the fanboys who like the DF. In reality the camera is a joke with so many problems it's hard to believe anyone would buy it. But to defend it is even more absurd and I think serious photographers or reviewers think people who defend the camera open themselves up to ridicule for being so naive. If I had a camera I loved I wouldn't be on here taking all the mud slinging. I had a Fujix100. I drank the cool aid and bought it and sold it in a month. It sucked. Slow and terrible focus. I didn't defend it. I said it was poorly designed. Many like on here defended it. I guess for some it's hard to admit you bought the hype and made a mistake. If I bought a DF and got blindsided by the Nikon brand I'd bite the bullet and sell it quick to recoup my money. With so many wonderful cameras out there such as the D4 and D800 which I own and use and the D610 which I don't but seems to be a bargain for what it gives you, you'd have to have drank the cool aid to be suckered into thinking the DF is nothing more then a complete failure. I use cameras for work. My D3 had 250,000 actuations when I bought my D4. Buying a DF sends a message to the camera companies that hype beats quality and I and many others think to support the hype by buying a misfit of a camera only encourages them to manufacture even more crap. Unlike the D4 and D800 there was no waiting list to buy the DF. Even though Nikon Professional Services sent out a blast to reserve one they were there for the taking since no pro wanted them. The D4 and D800 had waiting lists for months and months even if you were an NPS member. With the choices available no pro in his right mind would shoot with such a convoluted operating system that the DF employes. When I need to change controls quickly I need the buttons at my fingertips not some two handed juggling act of a camera. Sorry.

So could you explain which adjustment on your D4 or D800 takes only one button or wheel adjustment rather than 2 on the Df?

As far as I remember, adjusting ISO takes a button push plus wheel adjustment, as does exposure compensation, so in what way is the Df so much more difficult?

I have had the camera for a few weeks and find it as quick to use as my D800 when I want it to be. This tends to be what happens when you actually use something for a while.

I love the Df, and don't appreciate someone suggesting I have been suckered into buying it. The image quality is excellent and I find it very engaging to use, I understand you don't but there is no need to insult me for my choice.

P.S. Try using expressions like your cool aid one less often, I promise it will make you sound more intelligent.

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eastvillager
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Re: You must have known...
In reply to philharris, 11 months ago

Phil the difference is the button and wheel combination of a D4 are designed to not take your eye away from the camera when shooting . It is actually the quickest and smartest way to adjust those options. The changing of most controls such as the mode wheel takes two hands and must be made with your eye away from the viewfinder. Not very efficient. You know the first Nikon digital SLR had a shutter speed dial and used an aperture ring on the lens. The D2 didn't. Why? Canon never made a transition camera like the D1. They went straight to all digital controls with no shutter speed dial or aperture ring lenses. The reason Nikon finally changed the D1 layout was because it doesn't work well. It's not efficient but it lets old film photographers feel comfortable with the old controls which they wanted to do with the D1 The DF's controls aren't even as efficient as the D1. Why because it's all about looks and not about giving the photographer the best control of the camera. It's like a dumb blonde that looks good but can't put a sentence together. If you want looks over function you picked the dumb blonde of cameras. So much for my posts about this camera. I'm tired of defending why I think it's a poor camera. Frankly I'm not the only one. Every review I've read or viewed was negative. Enjoy your camera. I hope it works for you.

philharris wrote:

eastvillager wrote:

I think Kai and Ming are just trying to make fun of the fanboys who like the DF. In reality the camera is a joke with so many problems it's hard to believe anyone would buy it. But to defend it is even more absurd and I think serious photographers or reviewers think people who defend the camera open themselves up to ridicule for being so naive. If I had a camera I loved I wouldn't be on here taking all the mud slinging. I had a Fujix100. I drank the cool aid and bought it and sold it in a month. It sucked. Slow and terrible focus. I didn't defend it. I said it was poorly designed. Many like on here defended it. I guess for some it's hard to admit you bought the hype and made a mistake. If I bought a DF and got blindsided by the Nikon brand I'd bite the bullet and sell it quick to recoup my money. With so many wonderful cameras out there such as the D4 and D800 which I own and use and the D610 which I don't but seems to be a bargain for what it gives you, you'd have to have drank the cool aid to be suckered into thinking the DF is nothing more then a complete failure. I use cameras for work. My D3 had 250,000 actuations when I bought my D4. Buying a DF sends a message to the camera companies that hype beats quality and I and many others think to support the hype by buying a misfit of a camera only encourages them to manufacture even more crap. Unlike the D4 and D800 there was no waiting list to buy the DF. Even though Nikon Professional Services sent out a blast to reserve one they were there for the taking since no pro wanted them. The D4 and D800 had waiting lists for months and months even if you were an NPS member. With the choices available no pro in his right mind would shoot with such a convoluted operating system that the DF employes. When I need to change controls quickly I need the buttons at my fingertips not some two handed juggling act of a camera. Sorry.

So could you explain which adjustment on your D4 or D800 takes only one button or wheel adjustment rather than 2 on the Df?

As far as I remember, adjusting ISO takes a button push plus wheel adjustment, as does exposure compensation, so in what way is the Df so much more difficult?

I have had the camera for a few weeks and find it as quick to use as my D800 when I want it to be. This tends to be what happens when you actually use something for a while.

I love the Df, and don't appreciate someone suggesting I have been suckered into buying it. The image quality is excellent and I find it very engaging to use, I understand you don't but there is no need to insult me for my choice.

P.S. Try using expressions like your cool aid one less often, I promise it will make you sound more intelligent.

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Robin Casady
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Re: The Philosophy of Nikon Df
In reply to Richard Murdey, 11 months ago

Richard Murdey wrote:

In Japan, the Asahi Camera magazine come out last month with a special issue dedicated to the Df, called "The Philosophy of Nikon Df " (Nikon Df の哲学).

...
In a nutshell, that's the problem with the Df - it's built into its DNA, it's fundamental design brief to support four generations of Nikkor lenses : auto, Ai, AF, and G, straddling two different control paradigms. It is not possible to do that and at the same time have a clean, concise, straightforward, and intuitive control layout.

If the D4 sensor is so great, Nikon should put it in all the FX bodies. It's not like it costs any more than the one in the D800 of D600. (A D800x could be 36MP.) Then the D600 could be the "modern" small FX body, and the Df could have been the "retro" small FX body: no support for "G" lenses, no AF, split prism focus screen... I'm pretty tight-fisted when it comes to buying cameras, but I would have lined up for that.

If you were running Nikon it would go into bankruptcy. A Df that didn't support G lenses would be a failure in the market. A "retro" digital camera has to be a mix of modern and old. Exactly what that mix is will determine whether it fails or succeeds. It is obvious from the posts on this board that many of Df buyers use their camera as modern DSLR. If it was limited in function so it could be "true" 50 year old cameras, those people wouldn't be buyers. I think the number of people who want a DSLR with only retro controls is tiny.

Putting the same sensor all FX bodies is another way to fail in the market. It would reduce Nikon's market share. They have done well with their current mix of cameras. They have attracted a new demographic—serious landscape and studio photographers—with the 36 MP D800, have a professional workhorse in the D4, and the D610 fills the middle ground. The Df captures some of those who miss the D700, and adds some suffering from future shock.

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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
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jjnik
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Re: You must have known...
In reply to philharris, 11 months ago

philharris wrote:

eastvillager wrote:

I think Kai and Ming are just trying to make fun of the fanboys who like the DF. In reality the camera is a joke with so many problems it's hard to believe anyone would buy it. But to defend it is even more absurd and I think serious photographers or reviewers think people who defend the camera open themselves up to ridicule for being so naive. If I had a camera I loved I wouldn't be on here taking all the mud slinging. I had a Fujix100. I drank the cool aid and bought it and sold it in a month. It sucked. Slow and terrible focus. I didn't defend it. I said it was poorly designed. Many like on here defended it. I guess for some it's hard to admit you bought the hype and made a mistake. If I bought a DF and got blindsided by the Nikon brand I'd bite the bullet and sell it quick to recoup my money. With so many wonderful cameras out there such as the D4 and D800 which I own and use and the D610 which I don't but seems to be a bargain for what it gives you, you'd have to have drank the cool aid to be suckered into thinking the DF is nothing more then a complete failure. I use cameras for work. My D3 had 250,000 actuations when I bought my D4. Buying a DF sends a message to the camera companies that hype beats quality and I and many others think to support the hype by buying a misfit of a camera only encourages them to manufacture even more crap. Unlike the D4 and D800 there was no waiting list to buy the DF. Even though Nikon Professional Services sent out a blast to reserve one they were there for the taking since no pro wanted them. The D4 and D800 had waiting lists for months and months even if you were an NPS member. With the choices available no pro in his right mind would shoot with such a convoluted operating system that the DF employes. When I need to change controls quickly I need the buttons at my fingertips not some two handed juggling act of a camera. Sorry.

So could you explain which adjustment on your D4 or D800 takes only one button or wheel adjustment rather than 2 on the Df?

Not meant to support the ridiculous post by east villager (he seems to have a vendetta against anyone who likes the Df), but just for info on differences in handling between the cameras:

- Easy ISO on the D800 (though, for some strange reason not available on the D4)

- Easty Exposure Compensation on the D4/D800

- 1/3 stop SS are directly available through the rear dial on the D4/D800 versus having to adust the top dial to 1/3 stop on the Df first and then use the dial (and if you always leave it there so you can access the 1/3 stops, I don't personally get it's value?)

As far as I remember, adjusting ISO takes a button push plus wheel adjustment, as does exposure compensation, so in what way is the Df so much more difficult?

- when Easy Iso is enabled, the rear dial controls ISO directly in A mode and the front dial controls ISO directly in S mode.

- when Easy Exposure Comensation is enabled, the rear dial controls EC directly in A mode and the front dial controls EC directly in S mode.

However, I don't believe these can be used together as you'd have a control conflict.

I have had the camera for a few weeks and find it as quick to use as my D800 when I want it to be. This tends to be what happens when you actually use something for a while.

I love the Df, and don't appreciate someone suggesting I have been suckered into buying it. The image quality is excellent and I find it very engaging to use, I understand you don't but there is no need to insult me for my choice.

Agreed - I don't understand why some feel the need to insult someone on their choice in camera just because they don't like it for some reason.

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sgoldswo
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Re: You must have known...
In reply to eastvillager, 11 months ago

eastvillager wrote:

Phil the difference is the button and wheel combination of a D4 are designed to not take your eye away from the camera when shooting . It is actually the quickest and smartest way to adjust those options. The changing of most controls such as the mode wheel takes two hands and must be made with your eye away from the viewfinder. Not very efficient.

Actually the  only control that can't be adjusted with the camera to your eye is the mode dial. Not a big deal at all.

I put my hand up, I prefer shutter speed dials and aperture rings on lens to the modern DSLR control paradigm, which lost something along the way, to me.

Every review I've read or viewed was negative.

Really? There have been quite a number of positive reviews on the net. Tom Grill and Steve Huff spring to mind. Even Thom's was on balance a positive review.

philharris wrote:

eastvillager wrote:

I think Kai and Ming are just trying to make fun of the fanboys who like the DF. In reality the camera is a joke with so many problems it's hard to believe anyone would buy it. But to defend it is even more absurd and I think serious photographers or reviewers think people who defend the camera open themselves up to ridicule for being so naive. If I had a camera I loved I wouldn't be on here taking all the mud slinging. I had a Fujix100. I drank the cool aid and bought it and sold it in a month. It sucked. Slow and terrible focus. I didn't defend it. I said it was poorly designed. Many like on here defended it. I guess for some it's hard to admit you bought the hype and made a mistake. If I bought a DF and got blindsided by the Nikon brand I'd bite the bullet and sell it quick to recoup my money. With so many wonderful cameras out there such as the D4 and D800 which I own and use and the D610 which I don't but seems to be a bargain for what it gives you, you'd have to have drank the cool aid to be suckered into thinking the DF is nothing more then a complete failure. I use cameras for work. My D3 had 250,000 actuations when I bought my D4. Buying a DF sends a message to the camera companies that hype beats quality and I and many others think to support the hype by buying a misfit of a camera only encourages them to manufacture even more crap. Unlike the D4 and D800 there was no waiting list to buy the DF. Even though Nikon Professional Services sent out a blast to reserve one they were there for the taking since no pro wanted them. The D4 and D800 had waiting lists for months and months even if you were an NPS member. With the choices available no pro in his right mind would shoot with such a convoluted operating system that the DF employes. When I need to change controls quickly I need the buttons at my fingertips not some two handed juggling act of a camera. Sorry.

So could you explain which adjustment on your D4 or D800 takes only one button or wheel adjustment rather than 2 on the Df?

As far as I remember, adjusting ISO takes a button push plus wheel adjustment, as does exposure compensation, so in what way is the Df so much more difficult?

I have had the camera for a few weeks and find it as quick to use as my D800 when I want it to be. This tends to be what happens when you actually use something for a while.

I love the Df, and don't appreciate someone suggesting I have been suckered into buying it. The image quality is excellent and I find it very engaging to use, I understand you don't but there is no need to insult me for my choice.

P.S. Try using expressions like your cool aid one less often, I promise it will make you sound more intelligent.

 sgoldswo's gear list:sgoldswo's gear list
Leica M Typ 240 Olympus E-M1 Nikon Df Nikon D810 Nikon D750
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sgoldswo
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Re: The Philosophy of Nikon Df
In reply to eastvillager, 11 months ago

With respect, I have 5 cameras listed, as being currently owned the same number as you. I note some of your are the newest and most expensive models too. Does that make you a "camera collector"?

eastvillager wrote:

Sir you have 21 cameras listed on your gear page. A half dozen are the newest and most expensive cameras around. You collect cameras. Obviously you enjoy photography but by the look of your flickr portfolio you could really get by with one of any of them. I wish I had money to burn like you.

sgoldswo wrote:

eastvillager wrote:

Why would you want a DF if you have a D800E? To collect cameras? At the price of the DF it's not exactly the kind of camera you buy on a whim. The D800 are solid beasts with the wonderful Nikon IQ.

sgoldswo wrote:

tissunique wrote:

Eastvillager, I agree. I've heard it said that the DF is a D4 at half the price. What absolute nonsense. And so untrue. In fact the DF is more expensive than the D4 and I'll explain why:
It lacks several features. It is not a 'pro' camera in the strict sense. It doesn't offer video. It's way smaller and of far lesser build quality. It is far less capable. It is far slower. And I could go on. When you add up all the minuses it's actually way more expensive than a D4 and just about every other full-frame camera out there. That's how silly it is. Now if it was 40% cheaper I would buy one but why should I when there's the D800 and D610 available from Nikon - both offering much more.

But what if I don't care about continuous shooting speed, don't want video, want a smaller full frame camera and the build is far better than my D600 (it is) and virtually on a par with my D800E (it is)?

Because i use them for different purposes? Because the D800E is good, but not great at higher ISOs? Because a lot of the time I want to use a smaller, lighter camera that has a good range of lenses. Put it this way, the D800E sucks for street and candid shooting.

If you think I'm a "camera collector" (whatever that is) take a look at the flickr feed in my footer. You'll see I use all the cameras I own regularly. For posterity, here's one with the D800E:

and here's one with the Df.

 sgoldswo's gear list:sgoldswo's gear list
Leica M Typ 240 Olympus E-M1 Nikon Df Nikon D810 Nikon D750
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ravduc
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Eastvillager, Kai is a clown
In reply to eastvillager, 11 months ago

You sound more and more like your hero Kai. The guy is a clown and the more I read your provocative threads the more I think that you have joined his troopers.

 ravduc's gear list:ravduc's gear list
Canon PowerShot G10 Leica Digilux 2 Fujifilm FinePix X100 Leica Digilux 3 Olympus E-1 +13 more
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