50mm Prime with Resolution for a D800? Come on Nikon/Sigma!

Started 3 months ago | Questions
Todd Hargis
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Re: I only know that the...
In reply to light_bulb, 3 months ago

Hows how's this for resolution? The Nikon 50mm f/1.4G stopped down to f/8 on my D800E

a view towards lake LBJ

Now for the  100% crop from in the water:

100%  crop showing the man and kayak.

I now have the  Nikon 58mm  f/1.4G  which is much better and offers more resolution. The Otus is nice but not $4k nice...  :^/

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light_bulb
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Re: 50mm Prime with Resolution for a D800? Come on Nikon/Sigma!
In reply to michaeladawson, 3 months ago

According to to my understanding, moiré is also dependent on output size and resolution. For the most of it you may have it on a screen but not in print.

I once had blueish moiré patterns in black fabric with a Pentax 645D with FA 120 4 Macro. With the D800 I have noticed it with feather detail but no yet with fabric.

I do not think that moiré provides indication for highly resolving lenses.

I was not talking about all Nikon lenses but I think all D800 users are aware that many lenses are not exactly designed for it.

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light_bulb
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Re: 50mm Prime with Resolution for a D800? Come on Nikon/Sigma!
In reply to Stujomo, 3 months ago

Very good indeed.

Not taking into account possible differences in individual copies of the lens it might be that the lens performs better over shorter distances (headshots).

Other than that I might try another copy.

However this does not provide indication for sharpness accross the frame.

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light_bulb
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Re: 50mm Prime with Resolution for a D800? Come on Nikon/Sigma!
In reply to Rich42, 3 months ago

Rich42 wrote:

I have been involved in photography for a very long time and have seen enormous changes and advances in technologies over the last 50-60 years. All through this time, those of us involved at the profesional level have noticed a persistent theme from amateurs and gear-hounds, that if they only had a specific piece of equipment, which for various reasons was just out of their reach, or unavailable, or soon-to-be-developed, their work would improve immensely and they would be able to overcome the present limitations of their equipment.

Truth is, most photographic gear is capable of performance far, far beyond the capabilities of most photographers. Compelling, technically good, artistic images are made by the photographer, not lenses. There really is no such thing as a poor Nikon lens (or a poor lens by any major manufacturer for that matter) despite all the hair-splitting and hand-wringing by reviewers and people reading, comparing and quoting the data from such reviews.

The faults you attribute to the lenses you have named are non-existent in real-world image making. Outside of some very highly specialized industrial, technical and commercial photography, superb results can be had with anything that is available "off-the-shelf."

Where are your images of cityscapes that suffer from the imaginary shortcomings of your Nikon equipment? Show me the optical problems you're complaining about in such pictures. The combination of the the D800/e and any of Nikon's "normal" lenses is capable of excellent work under any kind of assignment. At the f/ stops one would use for such work, there isn't a reviewer in the universe who could distinguish a Nikkor from a Zeiss, a Leica, Zuiko, Voightlander, etc. In fact, if you or they were given a hundred random prints from a small group of excellent photographers, using all makes of lenses at random, making images as they usually do, you would never be able to match any print to any lens except by random chance.

Where is the studio work you mention that taxes your lens so badly? Your gallery shows work that doesn't begin to scratch the capabilities of your equipment.

I am not trying to be negatively critical. I'm trying to give you some constructive advice. I think if you go out and concentrate on acquiring the technical and artistic skill required by the guy behind the camera, and do a lot of the kind of photography that you are just talking about, your gear will do just fine

Rich

Dear Rich,

I am well aware of this `lamento´and can applaude to a lot of it.

However if you buy into a system that can provide higher resolution you have to deal with alll bottlenecks simultaneously because each on its own may preclude what you want to achieve. Other than that you can save a lot of money.

My gallery is obviously dated. I have focused on taking pictures over the last years besides my primary occupation that earns me the money to do all this.

There will be an update.

Cheers Andreas

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light_bulb
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In reply to Todd Hargis, 3 months ago

Unfortunately there is quite a bit of atmospheric haze that limited what might have  been achieved.

But nevertheless thank you for this.

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michaeladawson
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Re: 50mm Prime with Resolution for a D800? Come on Nikon/Sigma!
In reply to light_bulb, 3 months ago

light_bulb wrote:

According to to my understanding, moiré is also dependent on output size and resolution. For the most of it you may have it on a screen but not in print.

I once had blueish moiré patterns in black fabric with a Pentax 645D with FA 120 4 Macro. With the D800 I have noticed it with feather detail but no yet with fabric.

I do not think that moiré provides indication for highly resolving lenses.

I was not talking about all Nikon lenses but I think all D800 users are aware that many lenses are not exactly designed for it.

Scott, above, has it a little closer.  Nikon lenses may not have the best micro-contrast at extreme high resolution.

I am talking about moiré at 100% zoom.  No print/output size involved here.  My lenses give moiré at 36mp which they would not do if the lens didn't out resolve the sensor.

I wouldn't argue with anyone who said Zeiss lenses best Nikon.  But it's not because Nikon lenses don't out resolve the sensor.  Zeiss simply are better... and you pay for it.

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Mike Dawson

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Mikael Risedal
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Re: 50mm Prime with Resolution for a D800? Come on Nikon/Sigma!
In reply to Stujomo, 3 months ago

Stujomo wrote:

light_bulb wrote:

Sorry, but you must be kidding.

The 50 1.8 G is fairly limited stopped down even in the centre not to talk about the borders/corners where it visibly suffers from field curvature.

This became very obvious to me once I used the D800 50 1.8 G and D800E 85 1.8 G side by side in studio. Since I currently also have a D800E, my further tries with the 50 1.8 G on the D800E confirmed that it never allows to achieve the crisp appearence that the 85 1.8 G can deliver.

My 50mm 1.8g is pretty sharp on my D800.

view the original

Maybe not as good as my 85 1.8g never done a test as such.

heres the full image.

Hmm

this is a crop 100% from d800 , 2800K kitchen light and the Otus at 1,4

impressive-yes, slow to work with-yes, cost a lot - yes

no spray and pray lens

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light_bulb
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Re: 50mm Prime with Resolution for a D800? Come on Nikon/Sigma!
In reply to michaeladawson, 3 months ago

michaeladawson wrote:

light_bulb wrote:

According to to my understanding, moiré is also dependent on output size and resolution. For the most of it you may have it on a screen but not in print.

I once had blueish moiré patterns in black fabric with a Pentax 645D with FA 120 4 Macro. With the D800 I have noticed it with feather detail but no yet with fabric.

I do not think that moiré provides indication for highly resolving lenses.

I was not talking about all Nikon lenses but I think all D800 users are aware that many lenses are not exactly designed for it.

Scott, above, has it a little closer. Nikon lenses may not have the best micro-contrast at extreme high resolution.

That can be fixed.

I am talking about moiré at 100% zoom. No print/output size involved here. My lenses give moiré at 36mp which they would not do if the lens didn't out resolve the sensor.

Agreed. Moiré is only 'valid' at 100% screen size. Probably we will get rid of those regular patterns on sensors and screens that help to create it.

I wouldn't argue with anyone who said Zeiss lenses best Nikon. But it's not because Nikon lenses don't out resolve the sensor. Zeiss simply are better... and you pay for it.

Well not all Zeiss lenses are that good. Mainly the ones I mentioned above. Wide angle is another 'issue' and I might start another thread on it but will not.

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Mike Dawson

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light_bulb
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Re: 50mm Prime with Resolution for a D800? Come on Nikon/Sigma!
In reply to Mikael Risedal, 3 months ago

Mikael Risedal wrote:

I understand that this picture was not intended to suggest that the Otus is a lemon.

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Mikael Risedal
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Re: 50mm Prime with Resolution for a D800? Come on Nikon/Sigma!
In reply to light_bulb, 3 months ago

light_bulb wrote:

According to to my understanding, moiré is also dependent on output size and resolution. For the most of it you may have it on a screen but not in print.

I once had blueish moiré patterns in black fabric with a Pentax 645D with FA 120 4 Macro. With the D800 I have noticed it with feather detail but no yet with fabric.

I do not think that moiré provides indication for highly resolving lenses.

I was not talking about all Nikon lenses but I think all D800 users are aware that many lenses are not exactly designed for it.

Then you are wrong, I have seen HM and others large advertising billboards with moire in jeans and other clothes, not a pretty sight, taken with MF

Moire occur as long that the lens out resolves the sensor, where and when it is seen depends on the line structures and camera and the  aa-filter (or no filter at all)

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Mikael Risedal
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Re: 50mm Prime with Resolution for a D800? Come on Nikon/Sigma!
In reply to light_bulb, 3 months ago

light_bulb wrote:

Mikael Risedal wrote:

I understand that this picture was not intended to suggest that the Otus is a lemon.

nope. But I am deeply impressed by the iPhones white balance

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Rservello
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Re: 50mm Prime with Resolution for a D800? Come on Nikon/Sigma!
In reply to light_bulb, 3 months ago

Maybe check your back focus?  The 1.8G, 1.4G, and hell even the 1.8D at mid-app will produce quite sharp images.

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Mikael Risedal
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Re: 50mm Prime with Resolution for a D800? Come on Nikon/Sigma!
In reply to Rservello, 3 months ago

Rservello wrote:

Maybe check your back focus? The 1.8G, 1.4G, and hell even the 1.8D at mid-app will produce quite sharp images.

I say very good images

1. see where the absolute focal plane is presented in the picture/motive

2. use a tripod,or much shorter exposure time then you think you can handle, for example D800 reveal micro-shakes easily and these are often confused with an unsharp lens

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Scott McMorrow
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Re: 50mm Prime with Resolution for a D800? Come on Nikon/Sigma!
In reply to Mikael Risedal, 3 months ago

Moire means that the lens out resolves the sensor

But what you do not say is the contrast at which this occurs.  Moire, bring a repetitive pattern, is very easy to spot, and therefore quite sensitive even with very little contrast.  A D800 sensor has the ability to resolve with extremely high contrast.  Most lenses, however, have extremely low contrast at the full resolution of the D800 sensor, due to aberations.  You cannot speak of resolution without specifying the level of contrast it is measured at.  Moire will be more easily discernible than the original contrast in the scene.

The difference between the Zeiss Otus lens and a Nikon 50mm f/1.4G is the contrast at 2456 lp/ph resolution.

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light_bulb
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Re: 50mm Prime with Resolution for a D800? Come on Nikon/Sigma!
In reply to Rservello, 3 months ago

Rservello wrote:

Maybe check your back focus? The 1.8G, 1.4G, and hell even the 1.8D at mid-app will produce quite sharp images.

I was referring to results obtained stopped down to f/6.3 to f/8.

Generally I think the focus sensors on the D800 are too big. They therefore may cover too much subject matter at varying distances (e.g. eye versus nose wide open). This is very visible in the DX mode.

The Olympus E-5 has the option to switch to a smaller AF sensor size which e.g. is helpful to aquire precise focusing on small birds between branches.

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Nexu1
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Re: I only know that the...
In reply to Todd Hargis, 3 months ago

That resolution is insane.  It's hard to imagine why someone would need more than that.

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light_bulb
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In reply to Nexu1, 3 months ago

Nexu1 wrote:

That resolution is insane. It's hard to imagine why someone would need more than that.

You are right it is generally pretty good. In this case it is difficult to see the man in the river without cropping.

I can use DX mode for birds in flight and crop into feather detail. Sometimes I have taken a shot of a distant tree and zoomed into it to find out whether a bird of prey was sitting there or just another bird.

Thus this is about complaining on a very high level. While roughly 20 jpg/raw shots from a D800 make up 1 GB of hard drive space, it still makes sense.

My sorting out for technical reasons has become very strict unless the scene captured is sufficiently special.

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Rservello
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Re: I only know that the...
In reply to Todd Hargis, 3 months ago

Todd Hargis wrote:

Hows how's this for resolution? The Nikon 50mm f/1.4G stopped down to f/8 on my D800E

a view towards lake LBJ

Now for the 100% crop from in the water:

100% crop showing the man and kayak.

I now have the Nikon 58mm f/1.4G which is much better and offers more resolution. The Otus is nice but not $4k nice... :^/

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I've been reading up on the 58mm. Is it really worth the price?  I know its super low distortion and ca. But to that degree?

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Maji
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Re: 50mm Prime with Resolution for a D800? Come on Nikon/Sigma!
In reply to light_bulb, 3 months ago

I guess you want a 50mm lens for around $500 but want the sharpness of a lens of similar FL but costs around $2500 or more. There is a reason why the Otus and the Leicas cost so much. I am sure Nikon and Sigma can design and build one, but the market will be so small  that it may not be economically feasible for them to do it.

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Todd Hargis
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Re: I only know that the...
In reply to Rservello, 3 months ago

Rservello wrote:

Todd Hargis wrote:

Hows how's this for resolution? The Nikon 50mm f/1.4G stopped down to f/8 on my D800E

a view towards lake LBJ

Now for the 100% crop from in the water:

100% crop showing the man and kayak.

I now have the Nikon 58mm f/1.4G which is much better and offers more resolution. The Otus is nice but not $4k nice... :^/

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I've been reading up on the 58mm. Is it really worth the price? I know its super low distortion and ca. But to that degree?

Well it does have low distortion & coma. I took some astro star tests to see how well or how bad things would look. I was happy with the results.

This image was shot  wide open at f1/.4 and the duration was about 5 minutes

star test 58mm @ f1/.4

Here is a 100% crop from the upper right corner (with my copy, this was the worst corner) and it is not bad wide open! Compared to the 50mm, it is WAY better.

100% corner crop, upper right

Here is a full size image

Full resolution image

Here is an f/2.8 image

F/2.8 of Orion with some light pollution

https://www.flickr.com/photos/49019071@N03/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2334596/

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