whats up with my FZ200 images

Started 6 months ago | Discussions
Stevie Boy Blue
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Re: whats up with my FZ200 images
In reply to cmc1, 6 months ago

Hi cmc1

In my experience, there is no question whatsoever that regarding OOC Jpegs, my FZ150 produces generally better and cleaner images than my FZ200.

To say the least, the FZ200 is a fiddle-fest of a camera that requires far more adjustments than the FZ150 ever will if users are to achieve image consistency with the newer model. Whilst my FZ150 runs smoothly, reliably and with relatively low noise, with noise reduction set at minus 2 and sharpening at default 0 in most every situation I encounter, I recommend you begin by setting the FZ200 at minus 2 noise reduction and sharpening to minus 1.

Despite what Graham Houghton and his followers may tell you, I’d have to say that adding anything by way of in-camera sharpening to FZ200 Jpegs is only going to exaggerate the appearance of noise across images churned out by an already noisy sensor. And there’s no doubt in my mind that FZ200 images are noisy – and alarming so in some cases!

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t know anything about Graham, but I get the impression from what I’ve read from his followers on here that he may have initially set up his FZ200 in the same way he did his FZ150, and then left it at that, perhaps because the conditions at the time suited those settings. He simply may have failed to note that playing around with in-camera parameters to better suit changing conditions might yield less noisy results. Or maybe Graham actually doesn’t mind noise, or perhaps he readily acknowledges that much depends on what type of subject one is shooting as to the degrees noise is visible. As I say, I don’t know Graham, and I certainly can’t speak for his tastes in digital photography. I will add, however, that anyone who gives his or time time freely in the way and to the extent Graham apparently does, deserves respect and some credit at the very least.

All I’ll reiterate is that for me, the way to bring the FZ200 OOC Jpeg output toward that of the FZ150 is to slightly reduce rather than add anything by way of sharpening to the 2012 model. And when it comes to I-RES, adding any of that will merely serve to give an over sharpened, mosaic-type appearance – especially when viewing images zoomed in and particularly in relation to fine fur and feather detail. Of course, in the likes of buildings, boats, trains and other subjects where the blocking/mosaic effect gets lost to varying degrees, the effects of I-RES become less noticeable, perhaps even to a point of pleasing some viewers who believe the manufacturer’s blurb that no loss of detail comes by way of using the gimmick. Yeah, right Panasonic! Some may believe you, but I ain’t amongst ‘em.

As for the shot in the OP, although I agree that the FZ200 doesn’t quite match the FZ150 for OOC Jpeg image quality, I’m not sure that an F8, ISO 400 example is the way to show it, because as others have rightly emphasised, neither setting could be classed as ideal for the scene.

Regards and Happy New Year

Stevie Boy

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HampshireIan
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Re: What have I gone And Done???
In reply to Robiro, 6 months ago

Robiro wrote:

HampshireIan wrote:

Going by the comments i'm reading, i'd have been better off using my phone camera!

Non-sense. Can any phone camera give you 600mm f2.8 equivalent? Think before you write...

T'was a little tongue in cheek Robiro.

But I don't understand how a camera can get reviewed and awarded a gold award if the noise is so bad.  Surely this must really affect a reviewers marks.

Maybe if it weren't for the noise, the it would have been a 100% award

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sherman_levine
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Re: What have I gone And Done???
In reply to HampshireIan, 6 months ago

HampshireIan wrote:

Robiro wrote:

HampshireIan wrote:

Going by the comments i'm reading, i'd have been better off using my phone camera!

Non-sense. Can any phone camera give you 600mm f2.8 equivalent? Think before you write...

T'was a little tongue in cheek Robiro.

But I don't understand how a camera can get reviewed and awarded a gold award if the noise is so bad. Surely this must really affect a reviewers marks.

Maybe if it weren't for the noise, the it would have been a 100% award

What you're seeing in the OP isn't noise, but artifact due to shooting with a very tiny aperture. There may be additional issues related to the camera JPG processing, but it's impossible to know that beyond "use suggested settings and see if the issue resolves"

Sherm

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daRRski
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Re: whats up with my FZ200 images
In reply to cmc1, 6 months ago

Hi guys ...sorry I have to chime in ..I have no idea what you do to get mediocre image quality from this camera...I love FZ200 and "almost" regret buying Nikon D7100 ( lens cost to get , what I get from FZ200 )...just to add ...I spend less time PP with FZ200 , than I do with D7100 to get images I like  . I only shoot RAW and PP in included SilyPix ... to top it of ...I  find that it has a killer video quality ...below are some shots ...RAW ...PP in included software

Cheers

daRRski

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Steen Bay
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Re: What have I gone And Done???
In reply to sherman_levine, 6 months ago

sherman_levine wrote:

Steen Bay wrote:

Timj351 wrote:

HampshireIan wrote:

In actual fact, my bad - it got a Gold award.

Can it be that bad then?

I can only speak for myself but I am quite happy with the performance and image quality of this camera. I understand there could be some lemons out there but I doubt that it is a very high percentage. I think that in most cases it comes down to learning it's strengths and weaknesses. Here is a shot of mine that I think shows the amount of detail it is capable of. It's not an exciting image but I took it because I was still testing the camera and it had the elements I was looking for. It was shot in Raw and processed in PS CS6.

-Tim

Looks good. Is it possible to get close to that if shooting JPEG with optimal settings? (contrast, sharpness, NR, etc.)

At ISO 100-200 certainly. Try the ones I suggested to you in my earlier reply. OTOH, it's no harder to run with Raw these days than JPG. Just a bit more card space and (perhaps - I don't have data) slower burst speed.

Sherm

Which Photo Style do you use? Standard or Natural? And btw, seems that it isn't possible to adjust contrast, sharpness, saturation and NR on LF1. Not exactly a step forward.

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richj20
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Re: What have I gone And Done???
In reply to HampshireIan, 6 months ago

HampshireIan wrote:

Just bought myself an FZ200 - christ, reading most of the replies on this thread, i'm beginning to wonder what i've gone and done.

Hi,

The replies here are no different than in any other thread: they reflect the experiences of the poster, and are not necessarily applicable to any one else.

Old saying: Just because someone else's shoes are too tight, why should my feet hurt?

When I get a new camera or new lens, I put it through its paces by photographing many different types of scenes, and use all focal lengths, if a zoom. Also, the same scene at all apertures. This lets me know the capabilities of the camera/lens. With the FZ200 having a small sensor, I have to take that into consideration.

I've found the FZ200 to be a wonderful photographic tool. A few photographs to follow.

regards,

- Richard

-- hide signature --

"Careful photographers run their own tests." - Fred Picker

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Lumixdude
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Re: What have I gone And Done???
In reply to sherman_levine, 6 months ago

Way too much ISO and the wrong aperture setting on a small sensor camera = blown out images. Use the lens... You have a fast lens for the amount of zoom you have, use it, shoot at F/2.8, let more light in, shoot with a lower ISO. Use the lens and not your ISO. You can't get away with boosting your ISO that much with a small sensor camera.

The majority of complaints that come from those who end up using small sensor cameras but come from DSLRs and mirorless cameras with kit lenses come from the fact that they bring their preexisting nuances to a different beast. They are used to average lenses as opposed to Leica lenses, and they are used to boosting ISO to make up for lack of aperture. They simply need to get used to using a camera with a faster lens and a smaller sensor which will resolve the majority of their IQ issues.

Use your lens and not your ISO.

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Gerytal
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Re: What have I gone And Done???
In reply to richj20, 6 months ago

Great shots Richard!  Shows exactly what the FZ200 is capable of producing.  I've had mine for almost 6 months and am still learning the nuances of this beauty.

Gerry

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sherman_levine
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Re: What have I gone And Done???
In reply to Steen Bay, 6 months ago

Steen Bay wrote:

sherman_levine wrote:

Steen Bay wrote:

Timj351 wrote:

HampshireIan wrote:

In actual fact, my bad - it got a Gold award.

Can it be that bad then?

I can only speak for myself but I am quite happy with the performance and image quality of this camera. I understand there could be some lemons out there but I doubt that it is a very high percentage. I think that in most cases it comes down to learning it's strengths and weaknesses. Here is a shot of mine that I think shows the amount of detail it is capable of. It's not an exciting image but I took it because I was still testing the camera and it had the elements I was looking for. It was shot in Raw and processed in PS CS6.

-Tim

Looks good. Is it possible to get close to that if shooting JPEG with optimal settings? (contrast, sharpness, NR, etc.)

At ISO 100-200 certainly. Try the ones I suggested to you in my earlier reply. OTOH, it's no harder to run with Raw these days than JPG. Just a bit more card space and (perhaps - I don't have data) slower burst speed.

Sherm

Which Photo Style do you use? Standard or Natural? And btw, seems that it isn't possible to adjust contrast, sharpness, saturation and NR on LF1. Not exactly a step forward.

I use standard - for no particular reason. Regarding the LF1, Raw is so easy now...particularly since 3rd party codecs are available for viewing FZ200 and FZ70 .RW2 files in Explorer here: http://www.fastpictureviewer.com/codecs/

Their list is copied below.  I know it works with FZ70 also...and might work with LF1. They have a free eval download, and the price is just $9.00 for 3 workstations/1 user

Sherm

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sherman_levine
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Re: whats up with my FZ200 images
In reply to daRRski, 6 months ago

daRRski wrote:

Hi guys ...sorry I have to chime in ..I have no idea what you do to get mediocre image quality from this camera...I love FZ200 and "almost" regret buying Nikon D7100 ( lens cost to get , what I get from FZ200 )...just to add ...I spend less time PP with FZ200 , than I do with D7100 to get images I like . I only shoot RAW and PP in included SilyPix ... to top it of ...I find that it has a killer video quality ...below are some shots ...RAW ...PP in included software

Cheers

daRRski

If you shoot RAW, then you're free of all the i.Resolution / sharpening / NR problems, so you're pretty much left with diffraction from setting too narrow an aperture and noise from too high an ISO as camera-specific issues.

You can do it...you just have to try

Sherm

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bolador
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Re: whats up with my FZ200 images
In reply to cmc1, 6 months ago

It's all allready said.
HIG ISO and over jpg Noise reducction is ruining your picture..

You don't need to stop down your aperture to keep deep of field with compacts cameras... as with DSLR or bigger sensors..
f/2.8 may let the close foreground out of focus and get some chromatic aberrration in some high contrast borders.
But in this light condition I'd probably use f/2.8 this is 3 EV stops more, in your example you could use ISO 100 and half the shutter speed getting the same exposition with LOT LESS Noise nor the jpg smearing....
This one you have can be de no is edge with any software like lightroom. And won't be that bad.

For you broke know iPhone, Wich you like, uses f/2.2... if you were able to force it to f/8 result would be a complete mess.
Ahhh. Almost forgot... try to let the iPhone alone with timer trigger over something to take the picture and let me know.....
I guess you cannot talk to the FZ200 either....

Remember the hardest part to use of a camera may be just behind your eyes...

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cmc1
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Re: whats up with my FZ200 images
In reply to bolador, 6 months ago

Just to confirm both of the submitted images were shot in RAW and converted to JPEG via LR4.4 export.

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daRRski
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Re: whats up with my FZ200 images
In reply to cmc1, 6 months ago

Hi

Is there anyway you could post the RAW files ..or email them please ?

As you can tell ..I'm on FZ200 bandwagon lol and I'm sure the camera is capable of much better results than you are showing ..just couple more shots from it

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cmc1
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Re: whats up with my FZ200 images
In reply to daRRski, 6 months ago

daRRski wrote:

Hi

Is there anyway you could post the RAW files ..or email them please ?

As you can tell ..I'm on FZ200 bandwagon lol and I'm sure the camera is capable of much better results than you are showing ..just couple more shots from it

Yes I can send a RAW file later today.

I have also forwarded my images to a pro and a semi pro, both use an FZ200 as well as their DLSRs and both of them say, something is not right. I will also be sending copies to Panasonic. The FZ150 is capable of shooting at iso 400 in daylight at F8 so the 200 should be able to as well

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sherman_levine
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Re: whats up with my FZ200 images
In reply to cmc1, 6 months ago

cmc1 wrote:

Just to confirm both of the submitted images were shot in RAW and converted to JPEG via LR4.4 export.

How large were the LR JPG exports? I wonder if you've created the JPGs at low quality.

(or, and I suppose a better question is, did the images look this bad in LR)

For reference, the "high quality" JPGs created by FZ200 are about 5mb each.

Also, did you have image stabilization on or off?

Sherm

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cmc1
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Re: whats up with my FZ200 images
In reply to sherman_levine, 6 months ago

sherman_levine wrote:

cmc1 wrote:

Just to confirm both of the submitted images were shot in RAW and converted to JPEG via LR4.4 export.

How large were the LR JPG exports? I wonder if you've created the JPGs at low quality.

(or, and I suppose a better question is, did the images look this bad in LR)

For reference, the "high quality" JPGs created by FZ200 are about 5mb each.

Also, did you have image stabilization on or off?

Sherm

Images were exported at full quality (100) and the image stabilisation was on.

I'll try and post some more later if I get time

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antoineb
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ISO 400 and f8!
In reply to cmc1, 6 months ago

cmc1 wrote:

the attached photo was shot from a steady platform and the self timer was activated. why do all my photos look extremely noisy, low res and with that horrible water effect? my smartphone roduces sharpers images as does my FZ 150 thanks in advance

Hi,

I still own, and use, an FZ-18 and the images are MUCH sharper than this.

I note that:

- you took this shot at ISO 400.  That's way too high if you expect a clean shot.  Basically cameras with such a small sensor already lose some detail even just at base ISO of 80 or 100.  At ISO 400 a LOT of the small detail will be gone.  If you don't believe me, look at various reviews, say on Imaging Resource, or dkamera dot de.

- you took this shot at f8.  I hope you realise that on such a tiny sensor, f8 is the equivalent of a huge f number for an APS-C or full-frame sensor.  And I hope that you realise that from f8 those larger sensors already lose image quality due to diffraction.  So here you're shooting with much, much smaller apertures - thereby causing a huge problem.

My suggestion is therefore that, for any shot where you want the cleanest detail possible:
(1) you stay at the lowest ISO possible, typically 100.
(2) you use the largest possible aperture, i.e. the smallest possible f number.

Good luck

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Steen Bay
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Re: whats up with my FZ200 images
In reply to cmc1, 6 months ago

cmc1 wrote:

Just to confirm both of the submitted images were shot in RAW and converted to JPEG via LR4.4 export.

Was the image underexposed, or did you lift the shadows/foreground, or maybe both? That could explain the noise. How does the OOC JPEG look?

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daRRski
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Re: ISO 400 and f8!
In reply to antoineb, 6 months ago

+1

F8 is the max minimum aperture for this camera and lens...I have bunch of lenses for my DSLRs and do not attempt to shoot them in F22 or F32..diffraction would just kill IQ ...that's what you are doing with FZ200...to OP ..do you care posting F8 shots at ISO400 taken with FZ150...just curious ?

I did couple just now with FZ200 at F8...not the best...but still o.k

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bruckshaw1
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Re: ISO 400 and f8!
In reply to daRRski, 6 months ago

Seeing the last couple of images at F/8 and IS 400 persuades me that this is not the problem the OP has. Look at the OP's pic at 1/1 and compare it with the last two also at 1/1 .. the effect is entirely different. OP's detail has almost completely disintegrated.

Eric

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