Could anyone help me with the "banding" or "mouire patterns"?

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
Xiaomao
Senior MemberPosts: 1,153Gear list
Like?
Could anyone help me with the "banding" or "mouire patterns"?
7 months ago

I shot the sunset on a highland; it looks smooth and natural on the camera LCD screen and when opened in LR 3.6; it also looks good after my PP. But the "banding", "mouire patterns" or anything else appeared after the image was exported and viewed in ACDSee browser. Any comment and help would be highly appreciated!

The annoying "banding" or "mouire patterns" could be found in the darker or transitional areas.

-- hide signature --

Best regards,
Yang

 Xiaomao's gear list:Xiaomao's gear list
Leica D-LUX 4 Leica M9 Pentax K-5 IIs
Mark Ransom
Senior MemberPosts: 2,945
Like?
Re: Could anyone help me with the "banding" or "mouire patterns"?
In reply to Xiaomao, 7 months ago

It's not moire.

I see the bands you speak of. I can think of two possible causes - first is that you enhanced the brightness of this image significantly during post processing, causing posterization. Second is that you used a very low quality JPEG setting causing visible artifacts.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
miles green
Senior MemberPosts: 3,459Gear list
Like?
Re: Could anyone help me with the "banding" or "mouire patterns"?
In reply to Mark Ransom, 7 months ago

Mark Ransom wrote:

It's not moire.

I see the bands you speak of. I can think of two possible causes - first is that you enhanced the brightness of this image significantly during post processing, causing posterization. Second is that you used a very low quality JPEG setting causing visible artifacts.

Yep, I think it's No.2, the "bands" are jpg compression artifacts. In other words, the jpg doesn't have enough colors to accurately display the gradients.

Images with such smooth tones need top quality jpgs. I would use a 16-bit tiff to print.

Lovely image btw! 

-- hide signature --

Miles Green
Pentaxian with chronic LBA
Corfu, Greece

 miles green's gear list:miles green's gear list
Pentax K-5 Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG Macro HSM II Pentax smc DA 21mm F3.2 AL Limited Pentax smc FA 31mm F1.8 AL Limited Pentax smc FA 43mm F1.9 Limited +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Xiaomao
Senior MemberPosts: 1,153Gear list
Like?
Re: Could anyone help me with the "banding" or "mouire patterns"?
In reply to Mark Ransom, 7 months ago

It's not moire.

I see the bands you speak of. I can think of two possible causes - first is that you enhanced the brightness of this image significantly during post processing, causing posterization. Second is that you used a very low quality JPEG setting causing visible artifacts.

Thank you very much, Mark! You comment is very helpful, I'll try to lower the brightness andcontrast and see what will happen. But I shot in DNG and exported in JPEG. Did you mean that I should set to export high quality JPEG files in LR? If so, I will try to find the place to change the setting in it.
--
Best regards,
Yang

 Xiaomao's gear list:Xiaomao's gear list
Leica D-LUX 4 Leica M9 Pentax K-5 IIs
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Xiaomao
Senior MemberPosts: 1,153Gear list
Like?
Re: Could anyone help me with the "banding" or "mouire patterns"?
In reply to miles green, 7 months ago

miles green wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

It's not moire.

I see the bands you speak of. I can think of two possible causes - first is that you enhanced the brightness of this image significantly during post processing, causing posterization. Second is that you used a very low quality JPEG setting causing visible artifacts.

Yep, I think it's No.2, the "bands" are jpg compression artifacts. In other words, the jpg doesn't have enough colors to accurately display the gradients.

Images with such smooth tones need top quality jpgs. I would use a 16-bit tiff to print.

Lovely image btw!

-- hide signature --

Miles Green
Pentaxian with chronic LBA
Corfu, Greece

Hi, Miles! Thanks for taking your time to make it clear to me why there were such bands. I'll try to export the DNG files to TIFF files and hope the bands would be smoothed out.
--
Best regards,
Yang

 Xiaomao's gear list:Xiaomao's gear list
Leica D-LUX 4 Leica M9 Pentax K-5 IIs
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
afterswish1
Contributing MemberPosts: 684
Like?
Re: Could anyone help me with the "banding" or "mouire patterns"?
In reply to Xiaomao, 7 months ago

Definitely looks like posterization as mentioned. If the original looks okay in Lightroom then you know it isn't banding or moire, the problem is introduced in the processing stage. I'd be interested in seeing the fixed version because I'm sure it really will be stunning.

-- hide signature --

Gravity will make you crazy until you get the hang of it.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Cideway
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,663Gear list
Like?
Re: Could anyone help me with the "banding" or "mouire patterns"?
In reply to Xiaomao, 7 months ago

If light room allows it, try adding some noise to the image, it will break up the posterisation, and smooth out the tones.

-- hide signature --

Chris.
A weather sealed ultra wide, is that too much to ask?
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/chriside
GMT +9.5
Pentax SLR talk FAQ
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=23161072

 Cideway's gear list:Cideway's gear list
Pentax K-5 II Pentax K-3 Pentax smc FA 50mm F1.4 Pentax smc DA* 16-50mm F2.8 ED AL (IF) SDM Pentax smc DA* 50-135mm F2.8 ED (IF) SDM +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Xiaomao
Senior MemberPosts: 1,153Gear list
Like?
Re: Could anyone help me with the "banding" or "mouire patterns"?
In reply to afterswish1, 7 months ago

afterswish1 wrote:

Definitely looks like posterization as mentioned. If the original looks okay in Lightroom then you know it isn't banding or moire, the problem is introduced in the processing stage. I'd be interested in seeing the fixed version because I'm sure it really will be stunning.

-- hide signature --

Gravity will make you crazy until you get the hang of it.

Thanks, Afterwish1! I'm sorry I have to say that I give up. No matter what I tried, Lightroom, Photoshop, ACDSee Pro, image processed, image unprocessed, the horrible bands are still there after the DNG file is exported as JPEG. Sorry that I cannot bring up the satisfactory fixed version due to my poor PP skills.

-- hide signature --

Best regards,
Yang

 Xiaomao's gear list:Xiaomao's gear list
Leica D-LUX 4 Leica M9 Pentax K-5 IIs
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Xiaomao
Senior MemberPosts: 1,153Gear list
Like?
Re: Could anyone help me with the "banding" or "mouire patterns"?
In reply to Cideway, 7 months ago

Cideway wrote:

If light room allows it, try adding some noise to the image, it will break up the posterisation, and smooth out the tones.

-- hide signature --

Chris.
A weather sealed ultra wide, is that too much to ask?
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/chriside
GMT +9.5
Pentax SLR talk FAQ
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=23161072

Thank you so much, Chris! I've followed you advise to add some noise, or not to do any PP at all, and exported in JPEG format. I'm terribly sorry to tell you that the bands stayed on the image(s). I'll have to say that I have to surrender now.

It was a misty afternoon, I guess it might have something to do with the sunlight in the late afternoon and the rather dense mist in the mountains. I've never met this case before with my K-5 and Kx. Maybe I wasn't in such similar condition either. I was using DA L 55-300 (this came with Kx) for these shots.

-- hide signature --

Best regards,
Yang

 Xiaomao's gear list:Xiaomao's gear list
Leica D-LUX 4 Leica M9 Pentax K-5 IIs
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
JNR
JNR
Senior MemberPosts: 1,682Gear list
Like?
Re: Could anyone help me with the "banding" or "mouire patterns"?
In reply to Xiaomao, 7 months ago

Xiaomao wrote:

Cideway wrote:

If light room allows it, try adding some noise to the image, it will break up the posterisation, and smooth out the tones.

-- hide signature --

Chris.
A weather sealed ultra wide, is that too much to ask?
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/chriside
GMT +9.5
Pentax SLR talk FAQ
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=23161072

Thank you so much, Chris! I've followed you advise to add some noise, or not to do any PP at all, and exported in JPEG format. I'm terribly sorry to tell you that the bands stayed on the image(s). I'll have to say that I have to surrender now.

It was a misty afternoon, I guess it might have something to do with the sunlight in the late afternoon and the rather dense mist in the mountains. I've never met this case before with my K-5 and Kx. Maybe I wasn't in such similar condition either. I was using DA L 55-300 (this came with Kx) for these shots.

-- hide signature --

Best regards,
Yang

Don't give up! It is a nice shot, and if you work from a 16-bit TIF you can probably find a good work around. My solution when all else fails in this kind of situation is to use brush - set at large radius, at a "soft" setting and very high transparency spread along the banding area; it might take more than a single stroke. This will tend to soften or eliminate the pixelization without further damage. Not sure the name of the brush for your particular software, but in Picture Window Pro "smudge" is most effective.

-- hide signature --

JNR
www.jamesrobins.com

 JNR's gear list:JNR's gear list
Rokinon 14mm f/2.8 IF ED MC Pentax K-01 Pentax K-30 Pentax smc DA 16-45mm F4 ED AL Samyang 8mm F3.5 Aspherical IF MC Fisheye +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads