GX7 vs E-M1 IQ difference?

Started Dec 17, 2013 | Discussions
ajamils1
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GX7 vs E-M1 IQ difference?
Dec 17, 2013

So far I have only seen DPR review where it shows that E-M1 has an advantage in IQ specially in RAW files. My belief was that since both cameras use similar sensor, there shouldn't be any difference (maybe difference processing)

Has anyone compared both (specifically in terms of IQ)?

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Ultbruin
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Re: GX7 vs E-M1 IQ difference?
In reply to ajamils1, Dec 17, 2013

Well if you believe DxO results in the discussion I posted here, then the GX7 is horrible compared to E-M1.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3592547

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ajamils1
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Re: GX7 vs E-M1 IQ difference?
In reply to Ultbruin, Dec 17, 2013

Ultbruin wrote:

Well if you believe DxO results in the discussion I posted here, then the GX7 is horrible compared to E-M1.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3592547

I don't believe in DxO results. Sometimes they seem to be spot on, other times they are just weird and make absolutely no sense.

I'm more interested in personal experience from forum members.

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georgehudetz
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Re: GX7 vs E-M1 IQ difference?
In reply to ajamils1, Dec 17, 2013

If there's no difference in IQ between an E-M1 and a D800, how could there be an IQ difference between a E-M1 and a GX7?

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DoubleSwitch
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Re: GX7 vs E-M1 IQ difference?
In reply to ajamils1, Dec 18, 2013

I will probably be crucified by Olympus lovers, but to my eye the GX7 has some advantages:

http://cameralabs.com/reviews/Olympus_OMD_EM1/noise.shtml

GX7 shows more visible details the leaves (small veins). Probably too aggressive smoothing on the E-M1.

GX7 is less prone to purple flares.

http://cameralabs.com/reviews/Olympus_OMD_EM1/#7-14mm_flare

And the biggest for me: The GX7 has no color shift when changing ISO, something Sony sensors are stuggling with.

http://tysonrobichaudphotography.wordpress.com/2013/11/01/the-gx7-vs-the-om-d-e-m5-battle-for-my-affection-round-3-iq-interface-features-and-the-final-decision/

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Jorginho
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DxO is probably right and quite positive about GX7 IQ!
In reply to ajamils1, Dec 18, 2013

But the guy who says it shows a horrible performance is not. DxO shows that the difference is rather small.

Or in their words "Compared to rival offerings, the GX7 performs very similarly to that of the Olympus PEN E-P5 (a model that’s thought to share the same sensor as the Olympus OM-D E-M5 and the Panasonic GH3) and it’s only -1/3 of a stop in overall image quality behind the 16-Mpix Sony NEX-6.

The eight-point lead of the Sony is slight in real terms. With a Color Depth Score of 22.6 bits, the GX-7 is -2/3 stop behind the Sony, and around -1 stop less than that model in dynamic range. Perhaps most telling of all is the gains made in the low-light score. It’s just -1/2 stop less compared with the Sony, and around -1/3 less than the Olympus."

Note that the Sony NEX6 sensor scores better than the EM1 in DxO ratings....so. And this can be found in DxOs EM1 review:

"Against the flagship Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH3, the E-M1 performs almost identically in the lab, and it’s remarkably close to the larger APS-C sensor equipped Sony NEX-6."

EM1 performs similar to the GH3. GX7 does the same. So no: there is no significant difference in the end. The EM1 does perform a bit better nevertheless.

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ajamils1
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Re: GX7 vs E-M1 IQ difference?
In reply to georgehudetz, Dec 18, 2013

georgehudetz wrote:

If there's no difference in IQ between an E-M1 and a D800, how could there be an IQ difference between a E-M1 and a GX7?

What kinda logic is that?

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Godfrey
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Re: GX7 vs E-M1 IQ difference?
In reply to ajamils1, Dec 18, 2013

ajamils1 wrote:

So far I have only seen DPR review where it shows that E-M1 has an advantage in IQ specially in RAW files. My belief was that since both cameras use similar sensor, there shouldn't be any difference (maybe difference processing)

Has anyone compared both (specifically in terms of IQ)?

Fundamentally, both cameras produce such excellent results that the differences are mostly academic. Both will do a fine job.

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TheEye
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Re: GX7 vs E-M1 IQ difference?
In reply to ajamils1, Dec 18, 2013

ajamils1 wrote:

since both cameras use similar sensor, there shouldn't be any difference

At best, performance would be similar - which is likely the case.

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Baron LaCat
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Image Quality Stops
In reply to Jorginho, Dec 18, 2013

Jorginho wrote:

and it’s only -1/3 of a stop in overall image quality behind the 16-Mpix Sony NEX-6.

This STOP jargon really confuses me !!!  How is image quality measured in Stops ???

And when folk talk about Stopping Down (with a lens) what do they mean ?

(I almost grasped the idea of Stopping Down on a lens, and now we talk about IQ measured in Stops)!!

And if we can Stop Down on a lens, can we also Stop Up on the lens ??

Thanks in advance

Baron

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nevada5
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Please let us know if you can discern any difference.
In reply to ajamils1, Dec 18, 2013

Similar to picking fly sh!t out of pepper with boxing gloves on.

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Tolerance is the last virtue of a dying society. Aristotle

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caver3d
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Re: GX7 vs E-M1 IQ difference?
In reply to ajamils1, Dec 18, 2013

ajamils1 wrote:

georgehudetz wrote:

If there's no difference in IQ between an E-M1 and a D800, how could there be an IQ difference between a E-M1 and a GX7?

What kinda logic is that?

Yeah, that had me stumped too.  And I love your response.  I'm still laughing.  Good one.

caver3d

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caver3d
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Re: Please let us know if you can discern any difference.
In reply to nevada5, Dec 18, 2013

nevada5 wrote:

Similar to picking fly sh!t out of pepper with boxing gloves on.

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Tolerance is the last virtue of a dying society. Aristotle

Okay, I've gotta ask you.  Where did that saying come from?  Too good.

caver3d

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mrmiguel
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Re: GX7 vs E-M1 IQ difference?
In reply to caver3d, Dec 18, 2013

ajamils1 wrote:

georgehudetz wrote:

If there's no difference in IQ between an E-M1 and a D800, how could there be an IQ difference between a E-M1 and a GX7?

What kinda logic is that?

Yeah, that had me stumped too.  And I love your response.  I'm still laughing.  Good one.

caver3d

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Guy Parsons
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Stop all this nonsense
In reply to Baron LaCat, Dec 18, 2013

Baron LaCat wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

and it’s only -1/3 of a stop in overall image quality behind the 16-Mpix Sony NEX-6.

This STOP jargon really confuses me !!! How is image quality measured in Stops ???

It translates to "slightly behind in quality, probably never notice it, other factors will over-ride the small difference".

And when folk talk about Stopping Down (with a lens) what do they mean ?

Stopping down means to make the lens aperture hole smaller in diameter. Lets less light in the hole. Because the f/number is an inverse function then stopping down means a smaller fraction so the number appears to get bigger. That is f/2.8 is a lot larger hole than f/22.

(I almost grasped the idea of Stopping Down on a lens, and now we talk about IQ measured in Stops)!!

We also talk about 'stops' when discussing shutter speeds, wrap your grey matter around that one !

And if we can Stop Down on a lens, can we also Stop Up on the lens ??

We can stomp on a lens but 'stop up' is never ever used. Move to a larger aperture, or "open up a stop or two" would be the accepted terminology.

Thanks in advance

Baron

I'll stop there.

Regards...... Guy

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Guy Parsons
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Black substances
In reply to nevada5, Dec 18, 2013

nevada5 wrote:

Similar to picking fly sh!t out of pepper with boxing gloves on.

What ! And remove the flavour?

Regards..... Guy

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GEagle
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Re: Image Quality Stops
In reply to Baron LaCat, Dec 18, 2013

Baron LaCat wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

and it’s only -1/3 of a stop in overall image quality behind the 16-Mpix Sony NEX-6.

This STOP jargon really confuses me !!! How is image quality measured in Stops ???

And when folk talk about Stopping Down (with a lens) what do they mean ?

(I almost grasped the idea of Stopping Down on a lens, and now we talk about IQ measured in Stops)!!

And if we can Stop Down on a lens, can we also Stop Up on the lens ??

Thanks in advance

Baron

In this context, it usually means ISO-wise - like, 1 stop means that, from a IQ point of view (noise etc.) results at ISO 3200 on a camera are comparable to results at ISO 6400 on another.

A very good book to better understand the exposure triangle comprising aperture, shutter speed and ISO is, IMHO, Bryan Peterson's Understanding Exposure.

Hope that helps,

G

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Hokuto
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Re: Image Quality Stops
In reply to Baron LaCat, Dec 18, 2013

One of the best short histories of the use of the term "stop" in photography can be found at the link below:

http://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/8245/where-does-the-term-f-stop-come-from

The important thing to remember is that every full-stop of change represents a doubling or halving of the amount of light admitted through the shutter (depending on which direction you move along the number series). Each of the values in each series represents a full stop, but modern aperture rings and electronic shutters often offer the ability to choose intermediate ("continuously variable") shutter speeds and apertures.

shutter speed: 1   1/2   1/4    1/8    1/15    1/30    1/60    1/125    1/250   1/500 . . . .

Aperture (iris) opening: f1    f1.4    f2.0    f2.8    f4     f5.6     f8     f11     f16      f22 . . .

ISO: 100    200    400    800    1600    3200    6400

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GeorgianBay1939
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Re: Image Quality Stops
In reply to GEagle, Dec 18, 2013

GEagle wrote:

Baron LaCat wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

and it’s only -1/3 of a stop in overall image quality behind the 16-Mpix Sony NEX-6.

This STOP jargon really confuses me !!! How is image quality measured in Stops ???

And when folk talk about Stopping Down (with a lens) what do they mean ?

(I almost grasped the idea of Stopping Down on a lens, and now we talk about IQ measured in Stops)!!

And if we can Stop Down on a lens, can we also Stop Up on the lens ??

Thanks in advance

Baron

In this context, it usually means ISO-wise - like, 1 stop means that, from a IQ point of view (noise etc.) results at ISO 3200 on a camera are comparable to results at ISO 6400 on another.

This is interesting.  Could you please give us a link to a reference for this interpretation of "stop".

Thanks.

A very good book to better understand the exposure triangle comprising aperture, shutter speed and ISO is, IMHO, Bryan Peterson's Understanding Exposure.

Peterson's book might be helpful for JPEG shooters.  Anyone contemplating shooting RAW files will find it helpful to first read Gollywop's Exposure Vs Brightening to gain a more useful understanding of Exposure (which depends on Scene Luminance, f/, and shutter interval) and which is related to the ISOspeed by the "Exposure Equation ", which calibrates average scene luminance with mid-tone output on (camera) exposure meters.

Hope that helps,

G

The term "stop", [ which has an interesting history related to physical "aperture stops"  as linked by Hokuto here ] is also used to describe important ratios.  Since human vision (and hearing) is generally logarithmic it has become handy to use "stop" in this manner .

DxO uses a variety of terms , bits, ev, dB,  to measure (ill defined) "quality factors".    Many folks use the terms stop and ev interchangeably as they are both the logarithm (to base 2) of a ratio.  This is very handy in a binary world.

As a relative beginner, I am sympathetic to photogs who simply want to know what the heck is going on (often in spite of the terminology).  It appears that there is a lot of noise in the photographer's lexicon!

Tom

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Baron LaCat
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Re: Stop all this nonsense
In reply to Guy Parsons, Dec 18, 2013

Thanks Guy

That has made things a lot clearer 

Baron

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