Is Thom Hogan correct?

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
golf1982
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Is Thom Hogan correct?
9 months ago

Should the DF have been a D4 sensor in a D 800 body? With 8 ish FPS and D800 price?

I am inclined to say yes as that would make an incredible combo, but the DF body is not one for me, and i appreciate others will love it. It just seems like a missed opportunity to me.

Nikon D4 Nikon D800 Nikon Df
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reginalddwight
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Re: Is Thom Hogan correct?
In reply to golf1982, 9 months ago

Add 51 AF pts, dual card slots, pop-up flash, and video for the mythical D750 and call it a day.

golf1982 wrote:

Should the DF have been a D4 sensor in a D 800 body? With 8 ish FPS and D800 price?

I am inclined to say yes as that would make an incredible combo, but the DF body is not one for me, and i appreciate others will love it. It just seems like a missed opportunity to me.

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fotolopithecus
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Re: Is Thom Hogan correct?
In reply to golf1982, 9 months ago

That's an interesting notion, but why would anyone buy a D4 then.

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Kerry Pierce
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Re: Is Thom Hogan correct?
In reply to reginalddwight, 9 months ago

reginalddwight wrote:

Add 51 AF pts, dual card slots, pop-up flash, and video for the mythical D750 and call it a day.

golf1982 wrote:

Should the DF have been a D4 sensor in a D 800 body? With 8 ish FPS and D800 price?

I am inclined to say yes as that would make an incredible combo, but the DF body is not one for me, and i appreciate others will love it. It just seems like a missed opportunity to me.

I'd be inclined to buy the described camera, with Reginald's additions. Actually, I'd probably be just as happy with the d600 sensor in place of the 16mp sensor, but either one would be fine.

But then, I think it is very unfortunate that Nikon hasn't updated neither the d700 nor the d300.

I have no interest in the Df.

Kerry

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Kerry Pierce
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Re: Is Thom Hogan correct?
In reply to fotolopithecus, 9 months ago

I have both the d700 and d3s. The d700 is a fine camera, but it is not a d3(s) and there is no mistake about that. One is a great camera for amateurs, the other is a great camera for pros.

Kerry

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Alpha Tech
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Re: Is Thom Hogan correct?
In reply to fotolopithecus, 9 months ago

Nikon could not release such a camera. They already learned with the D700 that sales of the flagship model will be reduced when consumers have a good alternative. The Df is so different from the D4 that it isn't really a substitute in the way that the D700 was for the D3.

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Shotcents
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Re: Is Thom Hogan correct?
In reply to Kerry Pierce, 9 months ago

8 FPS and the D800 body with D4 sensor and that would END D4 sales.

What are people THINKING with posts like this? Obviously you're mostly thinking like a consumer and not a camera company.

For my needs the Df presents a good value.

Robert

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Osku
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Re: Is Thom Hogan correct?
In reply to golf1982, 9 months ago

golf1982 wrote:

Should the DF have been a D4 sensor in a D 800 body? With 8 ish FPS and D800 price?

I am inclined to say yes as that would make an incredible combo, but the DF body is not one for me, and i appreciate others will love it. It just seems like a missed opportunity to me.

Df made me finally buy a D800. D4 sensor in a D800 body for the price of a D800, I do not know. I would likely still have preferred resolution, since I mostly shoot outdoors at base ISO. If it would have been an updated version of D4 sensor, had better DR than D800 has, then maybe yes.

But I value his opinion, too. Maybe there will be a D810 now once I have bought just a new D800. This D800 will serve me years, so not really that important to me how it goes. Instead I know the next 6 or so new Nikkors that I will need now.

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DaytonR
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Re: Is Thom Hogan correct?
In reply to Alpha Tech, 9 months ago

Alpha Tech wrote:

Nikon could not release such a camera. They already learned with the D700 that sales of the flagship model will be reduced when consumers have a good alternative. The Df is so different from the D4 that it isn't really a substitute in the way that the D700 was for the D3.

That is so true !

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Bill1000Evening
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Re: Is Thom Hogan correct?
In reply to Osku, 9 months ago

Can someone post a link to these comments concerning the Df Thom has written?  I have looked at his blogs and can't find anything he has written about the Df - except for posting the Df specs.

Thanks

Bill

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Kent J
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Not for me...
In reply to reginalddwight, 9 months ago

reginalddwight wrote:

Add 51 AF pts, dual card slots, pop-up flash, and video for the mythical D750 and call it a day.

golf1982 wrote:

Should the DF have been a D4 sensor in a D 800 body? With 8 ish FPS and D800 price?

I am inclined to say yes as that would make an incredible combo, but the DF body is not one for me, and i appreciate others will love it. It just seems like a missed opportunity to me.

I have no need for any of those features. I am not a pro. If I were a pro, I would get a D4.

What I DID need was a small, lighter, full-frame DSLR with good high-ISO, five-frame bracketing and dedicated AF-ON button that accommodates AIS Nikkors.  There now is one.

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unknown member
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What is so hard to understand: The D800 is the D700's upgrade
In reply to Kerry Pierce, 9 months ago

Compared to the D800 the D700 is:

  • Bigger
  • Heavier
  • Has only a 95 per cent viewfinder
  • One card slot
  • more expensive (relatively speaking)

To say nothing of the astonishing sensor and all that comes with it. So, why is the D800 such a failure and not a "real" replacement for the D700? The D700 is...

..one frame per second faster.

You have got to be kidding me. I mean really, stop and think. In 12-bit mode, five frames per second is 180 MB, in 14-bit mode it is 210 MB. Nikon's clearly going XQD Compact Flash but has so far limited this to the D4 because including it in the D800 would jack up the price.

Does anyone remember that the D800 costs only 3k? Remember how shocked we were when that price was announced? Remember thinking that it had to be a misprint. Clearly Nikon's pricing plan was to grab the middle of the chessboard from their friends and colleagues at Canon. This price is flipping' amazing!

Want to increase the FPS? Great. Here's what you do: increase the price of the camera. Why?

  • Pulling the image from the sensor through the ADC faster results in noise. So you need to add stuff to get the noise down.
  • The I/O board needs more bandwidth.
  • The storage media needs newer and doubtless more expensive licensing for the XQD compact flash.
  • A larger battery or shorter battery life. Pick at least one but probably two.

You're dealing with a huge amount of data here. Moving it about is not free. Oh, you are a sports shooter and only need 16 MP with 8+ FPS (because that's what the D700 gave you with a grip) ? Get a D4 or D3X; the latter is still a current product. I am too lazy to look but I believe that the D4 and D3 are smaller cameras than the D700 stacked atop a grip. And these have dual card slots, full viewfinders, et cetera….

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Re: What is so hard to understand: The D800 is the D700's upgrade
In reply to The Andy G, 9 months ago

The Andy G wrote:

Sorry, brain fart: the D3S is 9 FPS.

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BillyInya
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Re: Is Thom Hogan correct?
In reply to golf1982, 9 months ago

golf1982 wrote:

Should the DF have been a D4 sensor in a D 800 body? With 8 ish FPS and D800 price?

I am inclined to say yes as that would make an incredible combo, but the DF body is not one for me, and i appreciate others will love it. It just seems like a missed opportunity to me.

You do realize the increased frame rates means vastly increased risk the vibration caused by when the entire mirror mechanism slams up against the padded stopper, then slams back again against the other stopper, causes vibration and risks negatively impacting (pun intended) on the image, especially on these extreme MP count cams. That's why mirror up shooting is becoming more popular ... out of sheer necessity to avoid blurred images.

I'm sure I'm not telling you anything new here but as more people demand higher frame rates they need to realize the insane challenge manufacturers are up against due to them having to engineer a system to stop large chunks of physical mechanisms dead in its tracks twice during a single shutter button depress.

This was actually one of the many reasons why I shoot mirrorless now. I get the benefit of decent MP count without any vibration at all.

C'mon Nikon, give us a decent mirrorless cam perhaps with a Fuji X-Trans sensor and create the perfect wedding/people camera.

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Alpha Tech
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Re: Is Thom Hogan correct?
In reply to Bill1000Evening, 9 months ago
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rayman 2
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Yeah for those without dough.....
In reply to Bill1000Evening, 9 months ago

Yeah for those without dough......at what 70 % of the D4 price ?

Save up and get a D4 !

Thom also wants fast DX wide angle primes.....!

Nikon makes enough good FF wideangle primes and they are not big..

so who cares.......!

Peter

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golf1982
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Re: Is Thom Hogan correct?
In reply to Shotcents, 9 months ago

Shotcents wrote:

8 FPS and the D800 body with D4 sensor and that would END D4 sales.

What are people THINKING with posts like this? Obviously you're mostly thinking like a consumer and not a camera company.

For my needs the Df presents a good value.

Robert

It may well also get them many other new sales. Apple have never been scared of canabalising their own products, as long as you are buying a apple products, and that has never done them any harm. People buy the d4 also for the grip, and build.

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golf1982
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Re: Is Thom Hogan correct?
In reply to Bill1000Evening, 9 months ago

Bill1000Evening wrote:

Can someone post a link to these comments concerning the Df Thom has written? I have looked at his blogs and can't find anything he has written about the Df - except for posting the Df specs.

Thanks

Bill

This was the article i was referring to

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/the-year-behind-the-year.html

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rayman 2
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Re: Is Thom Hogan correct?
In reply to golf1982, 9 months ago

golf1982 wrote:

Shotcents wrote:

8 FPS and the D800 body with D4 sensor and that would END D4 sales.

What are people THINKING with posts like this? Obviously you're mostly thinking like a consumer and not a camera company.

For my needs the Df presents a good value.

Robert

It may well also get them many other new sales. Apple have never been scared of canabalising their own products, as long as you are buying a apple products, and that has never done them any harm. People buy the d4 also for the grip, and build.

In order to get to 8fps you need  a grip and strong lithium cell.......

by the time you ad all that to 3000 $ you are already at something like 4000 $

thast not very far away from a D4 !

If 6 fps is enough you can buy a perfectly well working small body D610.. and

that has 24Mp and is not very far away in low light performance... I can tell you... !

Always those excuses not to buy  etcetec etc etc........
Buy a D4 and start shooting period !

Peter

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sgoldswo
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In reply to golf1982, 9 months ago

golf1982 wrote:

Should the DF have been a D4 sensor in a D 800 body? With 8 ish FPS and D800 price?

I am inclined to say yes as that would make an incredible combo, but the DF body is not one for me, and i appreciate others will love it. It just seems like a missed opportunity to me.

For me at least, what you describe would have been a wasted opportunity. The Df is shaping up to be much more important to Nikon than the described camera would ever have been.

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