To "purists" negating post processing

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Marcamera
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To "purists" negating post processing
9 months ago

If you deny benefits of post processing, maintaining that a picture should be presented as taken,

but also:

- enjoyed even one black-and-white picture in your life - you're lying through your teeth

- viewed your pictures on a non-calibrated monitor - you're lying through your teeth

- took a picture with white balance setting not corresponding exactly with ambient light - you're lying through your teeth.

So there, post processing is as integral a part of picture taking as pressing a shutter.

Rgds

Lanidrac
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'You're lying through your teeth'
In reply to Marcamera, 9 months ago

Marcamera wrote:

If you deny benefits of post processing, maintaining that a picture should be presented as taken,

but also:

- enjoyed even one black-and-white picture in your life - you're lying through your teeth

- viewed your pictures on a non-calibrated monitor - you're lying through your teeth

- took a picture with white balance setting not corresponding exactly with ambient light - you're lying through your teeth.

So there, post processing is as integral a part of picture taking as pressing a shutter.

Rgds

You seem angry.

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Clueless Wanderer
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Re: To "purists" negating post processing
In reply to Marcamera, 9 months ago

Marcamera wrote:

If you deny benefits of post processing, maintaining that a picture should be presented as taken,

but also:

- enjoyed even one black-and-white picture in your life - you're lying through your teeth

- viewed your pictures on a non-calibrated monitor - you're lying through your teeth

- took a picture with white balance setting not corresponding exactly with ambient light - you're lying through your teeth.

So there, post processing is as integral a part of picture taking as pressing a shutter.

Rgds

@ Marcamera. 'Lying through your teeth' is a bit harsh, I would more so put it as "Uneducated as to the factors that effect the out come of a great photograph in today's world"

@Lanidrac

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Ontario Gone
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Re: To "purists" negating post processing
In reply to Marcamera, 9 months ago

I usually try, to the best that my pricerange of gear can afford, to make the final product resemble what my eyes saw. This is in regards to noise, DR, saturation, exposure, and sometimes DOF. To me, DOF can go both ways, depending on if i was "seeing" the entire scene or a just specific subject in a scene.

The exception to the above is i also like B&W, often high contrast.

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Lanidrac
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Re: To "purists" negating post processing
In reply to Clueless Wanderer, 9 months ago

Clueless Wanderer wrote:

Marcamera wrote:

If you deny benefits of post processing, maintaining that a picture should be presented as taken,

but also:

- enjoyed even one black-and-white picture in your life - you're lying through your teeth

- viewed your pictures on a non-calibrated monitor - you're lying through your teeth

- took a picture with white balance setting not corresponding exactly with ambient light - you're lying through your teeth.

So there, post processing is as integral a part of picture taking as pressing a shutter.

Rgds

@ Marcamera. 'Lying through your teeth' is a bit harsh, I would more so put it as "Uneducated as to the factors that effect the out come of a great photograph in today's world"

@Lanidrac

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LOL. Blaming the gear is also a good excuse.

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rurikw
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Re: To "purists" negating post processing
In reply to Marcamera, 9 months ago

I agree. Photography is all processing from when the first photon hits the lens to the print hanging on the wall. Every step can be done well or poorly and some can be ignored (leaving them on default which means the hardware/software designer has done the processing) but no method is inherently superior or inferior.

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brianj
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Re: To "purists" negating post processing
In reply to Marcamera, 9 months ago

Maybe its not quite as B/W as what you are saying, but then I am not a purist.  I like to aim towards not having to do any PP, but although the results can be quite realistic, some PP will add that bit extra that might make the image bigger than life.

But I admit I would prefer not to have to do any PP.

Brian

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Ron Poelman
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Re: I would more so put it...
In reply to Clueless Wanderer, 9 months ago

Clueless Wanderer wrote:

@ Marcamera. 'Lying through your teeth' is a bit harsh, I would more so put it as "Uneducated as to the factors that effect the out come of a great photograph in today's world"

@Lanidrac

Nice work !
Lo how the times have changed.
Hope you've started work on
"A Merry Christmas and Goodwill to All"
can't wait to see it.

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Marcamera
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Re: 'You're lying through your teeth'
In reply to Lanidrac, 9 months ago

Lanidrac wrote:

Marcamera wrote:

If you deny benefits of post processing, maintaining that a picture should be presented as taken,

but also:

- enjoyed even one black-and-white picture in your life - you're lying through your teeth

- viewed your pictures on a non-calibrated monitor - you're lying through your teeth

- took a picture with white balance setting not corresponding exactly with ambient light - you're lying through your teeth.

So there, post processing is as integral a part of picture taking as pressing a shutter.

Rgds

You seem angry.

Just worded it for rhythm and attention.

Rgds

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Lanidrac
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Re: 'You're lying through your teeth'
In reply to Marcamera, 9 months ago

Marcamera wrote:

Lanidrac wrote:

Marcamera wrote:

If you deny benefits of post processing, maintaining that a picture should be presented as taken,

but also:

- enjoyed even one black-and-white picture in your life - you're lying through your teeth

- viewed your pictures on a non-calibrated monitor - you're lying through your teeth

- took a picture with white balance setting not corresponding exactly with ambient light - you're lying through your teeth.

So there, post processing is as integral a part of picture taking as pressing a shutter.

Rgds

You seem angry.

Just worded it for rhythm and attention.

Rgds

I get it. It reads like a poem. (Lots to learn here. )

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Toccata47
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Re: To "purists" negating post processing
In reply to Marcamera, 9 months ago

Marcamera wrote:

If you deny benefits of post processing, maintaining that a picture should be presented as taken,

but also:

- enjoyed even one black-and-white picture in your life - you're lying through your teeth

Some people came up when all film was black and white. I guess you would call that pre-processing. There was a time when pre-processing involved pigment, a finger and a cave wall. The objective was the same, recording the world around you with the tools you have.

Also, every time I take a photo, I try to have my photo line up with what I imagine it should look like…is that pre or post or good ol' eye-brain processing?

- viewed your pictures on a non-calibrated monitor - you're lying through your teeth

...

- took a picture with white balance setting not corresponding exactly with ambient light - you're lying through your teeth.

….

So there, post processing is as integral a part of picture taking as pressing a shutter.

Rgds

Why so aggressive? People have their  own preferences and do what they wish with their own photos. Likewise do what you will and don't worry about what anyone else is doing. I don't get the need to proselytize.

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Marcamera
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Re: To "purists" negating post processing
In reply to Toccata47, 9 months ago

Toccata47 wrote:

Marcamera wrote:

If you deny benefits of post processing, maintaining that a picture should be presented as taken,

but also:

- enjoyed even one black-and-white picture in your life - you're lying through your teeth

Some people came up when all film was black and white. I guess you would call that pre-processing. There was a time when pre-processing involved pigment, a finger and a cave wall. The objective was the same, recording the world around you with the tools you have.

Also, every time I take a photo, I try to have my photo line up with what I imagine it should look like…is that pre or post or good ol' eye-brain processing?

- viewed your pictures on a non-calibrated monitor - you're lying through your teeth

...

- took a picture with white balance setting not corresponding exactly with ambient light - you're lying through your teeth.

….

So there, post processing is as integral a part of picture taking as pressing a shutter.

Rgds

Why so aggressive?

Yes, I'm sorry, I excluded many. Some people do not have teeth.

Testing the waters, abrasiveness works.

Rgds

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fotolopithecus
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Re: To "purists" negating post processing
In reply to Marcamera, 9 months ago

Marcamera wrote:

If you deny benefits of post processing, maintaining that a picture should be presented as taken,

but also:

- enjoyed even one black-and-white picture in your life - you're lying through your teeth

- viewed your pictures on a non-calibrated monitor - you're lying through your teeth

- took a picture with white balance setting not corresponding exactly with ambient light - you're lying through your teeth.

So there, post processing is as integral a part of picture taking as pressing a shutter.

Rgds

You seem a tad confrontational marcamera. Many so called purists simply like keeping PP to the minimal manipulation of saturation, exposure, sharpening, and contrast in an attempt to accurately document what they saw when they pressed the shutter button. Good day, 

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Marcamera
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Re: To "purists" negating post processing
In reply to fotolopithecus, 9 months ago

fotolopithecus wrote:

Marcamera wrote:

If you deny benefits of post processing, maintaining that a picture should be presented as taken,

but also:

- enjoyed even one black-and-white picture in your life - you're lying through your teeth

- viewed your pictures on a non-calibrated monitor - you're lying through your teeth

- took a picture with white balance setting not corresponding exactly with ambient light - you're lying through your teeth.

So there, post processing is as integral a part of picture taking as pressing a shutter.

Rgds

You seem a tad confrontational marcamera.

A tad? Big time, not a tad. You wanna make something out of it?

Mind you, I'm not armed, but I made a good impression, I can tell.

Many so called purists simply like keeping PP to the minimal manipulation of saturation, exposure, sharpening, and contrast in an attempt to accurately document what they saw when they pressed the shutter button. Good day,

I see, that's not post processing?

Rgds

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dinoSnake
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Re: To "purists" negating post processing
In reply to fotolopithecus, 9 months ago

fotolopithecus wrote:

(snip)

You seem a tad confrontational marcamera. Many so called purists simply like keeping PP to the minimal manipulation of saturation, exposure, sharpening, and contrast in an attempt to accurately document what they saw when they pressed the shutter button. Good day,

That sounds reasonable, thank you for the insight!

Still, one must be very careful of how forthright you are when you state "I am a purist!" for what is "pure" in digital?  Did you use RAW and, if so, you made a personal preference regarding demosaicing, color conversion, sharpness and contrast ratios upon conversion of the file, correct?  If using in-camera JPEG you chose color profile, sharpness applied, applied contrast curve and several other factors, correct?  All you did was move your post-processing to a different form, a different location within the workflow - you still make adjustments to the output based upon personal tastes, only you did so earlier in the process.

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fotolopithecus
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Re: To "purists" negating post processing
In reply to dinoSnake, 9 months ago

dinoSnake wrote:

fotolopithecus wrote:

(snip)

You seem a tad confrontational marcamera. Many so called purists simply like keeping PP to the minimal manipulation of saturation, exposure, sharpening, and contrast in an attempt to accurately document what they saw when they pressed the shutter button. Good day,

That sounds reasonable, thank you for the insight!

Still, one must be very careful of how forthright you are when you state "I am a purist!" for what is "pure" in digital? Did you use RAW and, if so, you made a personal preference regarding demosaicing, color conversion, sharpness and contrast ratios upon conversion of the file, correct? If using in-camera JPEG you chose color profile, sharpness applied, applied contrast curve and several other factors, correct? All you did was move your post-processing to a different form, a different location within the workflow - you still make adjustments to the output based upon personal tastes, only you did so earlier in the process.

As with any other endeavor in life there are no absolute "Purests" because that's not possible. If the word means anything in the digital realm it means a person who manipulates the image only to the degree needed to accurately represent, and "document" what was seen at the time the picture was taken. Obviously that cannot be a perfect endeavor, but it can bring you closer to reality than a photographer who manipulates, and enhances it for artistic purposes.  There are degrees of Purests as well. Some may not do any PP because they feel any manipulation is polluting the image, which I personally feel is absurd.

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Bob Tullis
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In reply to Marcamera, 9 months ago

I might agree (I've met very few exposures that I didn't want to polish to some degree or another, and in general I expose with post developing in mind), but I have no problem with practices that don't align with my own. The end product is what counts, however attained.

Those criticizing my practices, and those doing the same to others, is another matter entirely. Eff-that, and eff-them (a passive-agressive avoidance of suggesting eff-u to the whole premise of this sort of judgement).

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Glen Barrington
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This advances photography,how, exactly?
In reply to Marcamera, 9 months ago

It might raise people's blood pressure, it might make your dull life otherwise a bit more interesting, but does it REALLY add anything to the dialog that centers around photography?

Absolute statements about art are silly, but so is the implied name calling by claiming someone is lying through their teeth.

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Marcamera
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Re: This advances photography,how, exactly?
In reply to Glen Barrington, 9 months ago

Glen Barrington wrote:

It might raise people's blood pressure, it might make your dull life otherwise a bit more interesting, but does it REALLY add anything to the dialog that centers around photography?

Absolute statements about art are silly, but so is the implied name calling by claiming someone is lying through their teeth.

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Oh please, I see that my comments were taken literally. So be it.

They were prompted by someone I met at a party a week ago, he takes pictures , I take pictures.

He stated that he never manipulates his pictures because he wanted them to represent exactly what he saw. That is what he wanted to capture. His pictures were supposed to represent reality, absolutely no manipulation.

To which I asked him whether he ever enjoyed BW pictures (not reality), whether his monitor was properly calibrated (it was not, great variance then), whether he was setting proper custom white balance whenever he took pictures.

He enjoyed BW photographs, did not calibrate his monitor, never moved WB dial from Auto, yet, he called himself a purist. Need to add, he never printed as well?

I thought I'd post it in dramatic manner and it worked. I really don't care what others do, one way or the other. I do my thing, enjoy it, try learning more and that's about it.

So there, eff-me if you'd like, but let's keep it at virtual level.

Rgds

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chkproductions
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Re: To "purists" negating post processing
In reply to Marcamera, 9 months ago

I can't even imagine that a purist exists, especially in photography.  Photography was always post-processed.  From the development of the film to the development of the print.  The time you processed the film for; the contrast of the paper, the length of exposure of the negative in the enlarger, the dodging and burning of the print, and the length of time the print was in the developer. All post processing.  Even your grip and grin photos of check presentations for the local paper were burned and dodged.  Every documentary photographer post processed their B&W images to present their reality.

Settling for what comes out of the camera really doesn't mean a whole lot.  It would have been like having this expensive SLR will all the lenses and bringing your film to the 1 hour lab and getting back your prints from a roll of 36 exposures and saying that they were all exactly what you had hoped for.

Today you have all the in-camera digital tweaks of film looks, HDR and the like, but that is what the camera company has chosen for your look, not what you have chosen.  So is that being purist - letting the camera decide what the photo should be like?  Then again, if that's what your happy with then no one should say otherwise.

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