M4/3rds is not like DSLR

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Brian Wadie
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M4/3rds is not like DSLR
10 months ago

Idly reading through many of the negative comparisons between the m4/3rds systems and DSLRs it struck me that the main theme of the complaints seems to be that, If you try to shoot with your M4/3rds body as you would your DSLR you don't get the same results

This usually covers DOF, shooting fast moving action etc

It the struck me that there really is no reason why they should be the same, they are totally different systems and (it seems to me) that it really is as simple as, learn how to get the best out of which ever system you want, then decide which suits you best

This was driven home for me recently when I borrowed a friends canon 1DX and found it totally unsuited to the way I shoot now (and its only a couple of years since I sold all my pro canon gear)

Having gone through the transitory conversion process I now think "M4/3rds" when I shoot photographs (no doubt I could make the transition back again but the weight would still be too much for me)

What do you all think?

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berni29
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Re: M4/3rds is not like DSLR
In reply to Brian Wadie, 10 months ago

Hi

Yes it's horses for courses as they say. If I were shooting a lot of fast moving indoor sports I would probably be better off with an SLR. But for me it is mostly family and environmental stuff for which MFT is far better suited IMHO.

People do like to debate the philosopical and technical details though.

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Berni29
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harold1968
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They are all cameras
In reply to Brian Wadie, 10 months ago

Brian Wadie wrote:

Idly reading through many of the negative comparisons between the m4/3rds systems and DSLRs it struck me that the main theme of the complaints seems to be that, If you try to shoot with your M4/3rds body as you would your DSLR you don't get the same results

This usually covers DOF, shooting fast moving action etc

It the struck me that there really is no reason why they should be the same, they are totally different systems and (it seems to me) that it really is as simple as, learn how to get the best out of which ever system you want, then decide which suits you best

This was driven home for me recently when I borrowed a friends canon 1DX and found it totally unsuited to the way I shoot now (and its only a couple of years since I sold all my pro canon gear)

Having gone through the transitory conversion process I now think "M4/3rds" when I shoot photographs (no doubt I could make the transition back again but the weight would still be too much for me)

What do you all think?

I find if someone can't shoot with one they can't with another.

i have shot with rangefinder, SLR and CSC.

its just focus, shutter and aperture really!

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a13
a13
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Re: M4/3rds is not like DSLR
In reply to Brian Wadie, 10 months ago

In a perfect world I would completely agree, however unless you know all three (four, five...) systems inside out, it's very complicated to know exactly which system you're going to need. And in most cases it won't be a matter of which 'format' suits your 'style' best, but more to do with how much you can carry and, especially, how much money you have. You can become accustomed to any system's specific pecularities, given enough time & experience. If we could get FF sensors and lenses in m4/3 sizes and prices I'm sure we'd all be jumping at it, no?

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tgutgu
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Re: M4/3rds is not like DSLR
In reply to Brian Wadie, 10 months ago

Why should they be regarded as totally different systems? For the most part, they are similar: have interchangeable lenses, some are with build-in view finder, displays, similar shutter speeds, mostly similar handling etc.

They have different DOF characteristics. So what? This shallow DOF hype drives me nuts. Most of my images don't have and don't need razor thin DOF. The DOF characteristics, for which all the differences are hyped up, are close to irrelevant for most shots.

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Thomas

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Alan_W1
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Re: M4/3rds is not like DSLR
In reply to Brian Wadie, 10 months ago

I agree Brian......they are different {at least for my needs}.

Maybe its because I come from film shooting originally, but Ive always worked backwards {and still do}......from my intended final use/output.......to choosing the most appropriate gear available, and method to achieve that goal {within my budget....irrespective of format}.

I certainly can not use my m43 camera completely in the same manner as my dslr, and still prefer my dslr as my main stills option {even though my gh2 is capable of higher IQ.......although only visible at larger print sizes}. And for my needs, m43 {as a system} is not ideal.....although almost perfect for my video needs.

I am fortunate that weight comes very low down my list of main/first considerations {although I am in reasonable health for a 61 yr old}. In fact the weight of a particular system had rarely entered my head ever......until I visited this forum.

My dslr has been on the brink of conking out for the last couple of years, so the time will arrive when I will have to make a major decision.......continue with m43, and use it entirely in situations where it excells {at the detriment of areas where it falls short for my needs}, or fork out for another dslr {or hope that by then, Nikon will have developed a suitable mirrorless alternative for my needs/ lenses}.

I quite like having two different formats available to me {I used to find 135 & 645 very complimentary for my needs}, and don't feel that they have to compete with each other.

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Len_Gee
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Re: M4/3rds is not like DSLR
In reply to Brian Wadie, 10 months ago

Brian Wadie wrote:

Idly reading through many of the negative comparisons between the m4/3rds systems and DSLRs it struck me that the main theme of the complaints seems to be that, If you try to shoot with your M4/3rds body as you would your DSLR you don't get the same results

This usually covers DOF, shooting fast moving action etc

It the struck me that there really is no reason why they should be the same, they are totally different systems and (it seems to me) that it really is as simple as, learn how to get the best out of which ever system you want, then decide which suits you best

This was driven home for me recently when I borrowed a friends canon 1DX and found it totally unsuited to the way I shoot now (and its only a couple of years since I sold all my pro canon gear)

Having gone through the transitory conversion process I now think "M4/3rds" when I shoot photographs (no doubt I could make the transition back again but the weight would still be too much for me)

What do you all think?

Interesting read.

I assume you are a professional photographer doing paid assignments?

What is your typical shoot?

How did your MFT Oly's match up against Canon 1DX shooting fast action?

The reason I ask is, I don't see many pro photogs on paid assignments shooting MFT's for fast action/sports.

A pro photog friend of mine said MFT cant hold a candle to his Nikon D3X's for focus speed, tracking, and number of "keepers".   He shoots  speedboat and motor sports for a living.

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Brian Wadie
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Re: M4/3rds with FF sensors
In reply to a13, 10 months ago

"If we could get FF sensors and lenses in m4/3 sizes and prices I'm sure we'd all be jumping at it, no?"

not for me because the physics involved would mean large, heavy and expensive lenses and the only reason I went to M4/3rds was weight reduction (otherwise I would be shooting a 1Dx with all those lovely L lenses I used to own   )

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Brian Wadie
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Re: M4/3rds is not like DSLR
In reply to Len_Gee, 10 months ago

Len_Gee wrote:

Interesting read.

I assume you are a professional photographer doing paid assignments?

What is your typical shoot?

The reason I ask is, I don't see many pro photogs on paid assignments shooting MFT's for fast action/sports.

A pro photog friend of mine said MFT cant hold a candle to his Nikon D3X's for focus speed, tracking, and number of "keepers". He shoots speedboat and motor sports for a living.

"I assume you are a professional photographer doing paid assignments?"

why would you assume that?

remember what I said - "select the system that suits your needs best"

"What is your typical shoot?"

anything from formal studio portraiture through landscapes, flowers and the like (for sale via local galleries and fairs) to BIF, wildlife and nature and yes, motorsport and water sport

On a recent shoot at Thruxton working with a pro motorsport photographer he expressed surprise at what the EM-1 was able to produce, the system was not for him, he was perfectly content with his DX2 which he knew would produce what he needed, but he thought the EM-1 perfectly capable of producing professional results - in my hands (this was in grey overcast and wet, low light conditions by the way)

This is not to try and make the case that M4/3rds can take the place of pro kit for specific jobs, remember my start point, M43/3rds are different from DSLRs

but - you did rather make the sort of comments that started me off thinking about this in the first place

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Mike_PEAT
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Get same results as I do with 4/3 dSLR, the Oly E-3!
In reply to Brian Wadie, 10 months ago

Brian Wadie wrote:

Idly reading through many of the negative comparisons between the m4/3rds systems and DSLRs it struck me that the main theme of the complaints seems to be that, If you try to shoot with your M4/3rds body as you would your DSLR you don't get the same results

This usually covers DOF, shooting fast moving action etc

I've shot with 4/3 dSLRs for years, and I haven't noticed anything negative that you're talking about using m4/3!

Now if you wanted to compare different formats of course things like DOF would be different, but it would have NOTHING to do with being mirrorless!

Action shots, the Olympus OM-D autofocus is very fast, I've done birds in flight with my E-M5, and looking forward to the faster E-M1.

It the struck me that there really is no reason why they should be the same, they are totally different systems and (it seems to me) that it really is as simple as, learn how to get the best out of which ever system you want, then decide which suits you best

The ONLY difference between an E-3 and E-M5 is the lack of a mirror, and an EVF, if you keep it to the same camera format which is what we should limit the comparison to if you REALLY want to see what the lack of a mirror does!

For the record I've shot with full frame film, medium format, extra-large format (3ft x 2ft sheet film).

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Len_Gee
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Re: M4/3rds is not like DSLR
In reply to Brian Wadie, 10 months ago

Thanks for your perspective.

I assumed you were a pro photog after looking at your blog and the variety of excellent pictures.

Gotta love the size benefits of MFT.  

Regards.

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Brian Wadie
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Re: M4/3rds is not like DSLR
In reply to Len_Gee, 10 months ago

Len_Gee wrote:

Thanks for your perspective.

I assumed you were a pro photog after looking at your blog and the variety of excellent pictures.

Gotta love the size benefits of MFT.

Regards.

thanks Len, no, I only took up photography seriously after I retired, I sell enough to pay for all my costs, pay the tax man and have enough left over for new kit as and when I feel the need (couldn't afford to do it on a pension   )

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Brian Wadie
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Re: Get same results as I do with 4/3 dSLR, the Oly E-3!
In reply to Mike_PEAT, 10 months ago

"I've shot with 4/3 dSLRs for years, and I haven't noticed anything negative that you're talking about using m4/"

I agree with you , I was commenting on the various threads that others start trying to prove how bad m4/3rds is as a system, me - I champion the system and regularly do write ups about the benefits (as I see them) of shooting with the EM series bodies (you've only got to look at my blogs as an example   )

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mh2000
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Re: M4/3rds with FF sensors
In reply to Brian Wadie, 10 months ago

Brian Wadie wrote:

"If we could get FF sensors and lenses in m4/3 sizes and prices I'm sure we'd all be jumping at it, no?"

not for me because the physics involved would mean large, heavy and expensive lenses and the only reason I went to M4/3rds was weight reduction (otherwise I would be shooting a 1Dx with all those lovely L lenses I used to own   )

I think he is saying that we should throw physics and economics out the window!

Actually, if we could get identical performance, speed, size and price, I'd rather have the DoF benefit you get from m43.

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mh2000
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Re: M4/3rds is not like DSLR
In reply to Len_Gee, 10 months ago

Len_Gee wrote:

Brian Wadie wrote:

Idly reading through many of the negative comparisons between the m4/3rds systems and DSLRs it struck me that the main theme of the complaints seems to be that, If you try to shoot with your M4/3rds body as you would your DSLR you don't get the same results

This usually covers DOF, shooting fast moving action etc

It the struck me that there really is no reason why they should be the same, they are totally different systems and (it seems to me) that it really is as simple as, learn how to get the best out of which ever system you want, then decide which suits you best

This was driven home for me recently when I borrowed a friends canon 1DX and found it totally unsuited to the way I shoot now (and its only a couple of years since I sold all my pro canon gear)

Having gone through the transitory conversion process I now think "M4/3rds" when I shoot photographs (no doubt I could make the transition back again but the weight would still be too much for me)

What do you all think?

Interesting read.

I assume you are a professional photographer doing paid assignments?

What is your typical shoot?

How did your MFT Oly's match up against Canon 1DX shooting fast action?

The reason I ask is, I don't see many pro photogs on paid assignments shooting MFT's for fast action/sports.

A pro photog friend of mine said MFT cant hold a candle to his Nikon D3X's for focus speed, tracking, and number of "keepers".   He shoots  speedboat and motor sports for a living.

What does getting paid for the shots have to do with it???

I know people who shoot motorcyle races etc. for the love of it. The shots are sometimes even more important to them because they are only doing it for personal satisfaction.

Just because something becomes your job doesn't mean it is more important to you -- typically, it goes in the complete opposite direction! You often end up just worrying about getting the job so you can get paid! Enthusiasts often put much more effort into their individual images than do "pros."

Also, "pros" have to keep up appearances for their clients. Much easier to just show up with a Canon or Nikon instead of having to explain to each client why m43 is "good enough." Back in the day, many wedding photogs shot Hasselblad because when they'd pull out the camera, everyone just knew they had to be proffesional when they owned one. Really.

I'm not going to dispute your friend's claim that the E-M1 can't match his Nikon, but as the OP stated, "learn how to get the best out of which ever system you want, then decide which suits you best." That's good advice whether you are getting paid for your shots or not.

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Thomas Streng
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Re: M4/3rds is not like DSLR
In reply to Brian Wadie, 10 months ago

As a user of both I think it depends what you shoot.

For some things m43 is great, for others m43 is a compromise and a DSLR is better suited.

The question I often ask myself:  Are there any other advantages of m43 besides size/weight?

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Vlad S
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In reply to tgutgu, 10 months ago

tgutgu wrote:

Why should they be regarded as totally different systems? For the most part, they are similar: have interchangeable lenses, some are with build-in view finder, displays, similar shutter speeds, mostly similar handling etc.

I think you are being superficial when you just list components having the same names. Following your logic you should not consider a sports car any different from a truck: both have wheel, windshield, brakes, a drivers seat, etc. But specifications are different, and functionality is also different.

I agree with the OP, I think it's pretty lame when users simply expect the µ4/3 cameras to reproduce images taken with 135 format. IMO it is much more productive to think in terms of creative concepts, rather than technical: you can demand a specific DOF, or you can discuss subject isolation. You can compare high ISO noise, or you can see whether that nightshot gives a satisfying image.

I feel that there is only one area where µ4/3 limits creativity: 12 bit raw files. In creative terms I do not get as much color malleability as I get from 14 bit files.

Vlad

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Brian Wadie
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Re: M4/3rds is not like DSLR
In reply to Thomas Streng, 10 months ago

DOF if, like me, you shoot a lot of macro?

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robonrome
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Re: M4/3rds is not like DSLR
In reply to Brian Wadie, 10 months ago

good points. i find when i turn to my 5d3 (more and more infrequently) i find myself missing functionality from my gh3, whethet its live histogram or articulating screen, that are more useful for most of my photography than those features where the dslr ecxcels

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brycesteiner
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Re: They work great for sports
In reply to berni29, 10 months ago

berni29 wrote:

Hi

Yes it's horses for courses as they say. If I were shooting a lot of fast moving indoor sports I would probably be better off with an SLR.

Fast moving sports is where a camera like the E-M5 and E-M1 excel. I completely gave up the DSLR's in favor of the mirrorless because they are more accurate and the EVF is much brighter. 9-10 FPS makes a big difference too compared to slow cameras such as the D800. This ultra fast focusing really brings it all together.

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