A7r: Pancake/collapsible - what are the options?

Started Dec 13, 2013 | Discussions
Eddy Teddy
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A7r: Pancake/collapsible - what are the options?
Dec 13, 2013

For travel etc; what would be the smallest options for wide or 50mm on A7R? Including both FF/adapters and NEX-lenses in crop mode.

I haven't seen a lot of talk about using NEX lenses on the A7R. For travel and family photography, 15 MP is more than enough.

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Najinsky
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Re: A7r: Pancake/collapsible - what are the options?
In reply to Eddy Teddy, Dec 13, 2013

Eddy Teddy wrote:

For travel etc; what would be the smallest options for wide or 50mm on A7R? Including both FF/adapters and NEX-lenses in crop mode.

I haven't seen a lot of talk about using NEX lenses on the A7R. For travel and family photography, 15 MP is more than enough.

I tried the SEL16 with my A7. In short, you don't want to put that thing anywhere near your A7!!

I think a good option would be Canons unbelievably good 40mm F/2.8 pancake, using an active adapter like the metabones to get control.

I think that would be a really nice compact combo.

I was going to buy it, but being an STM lens I think it's focus by wire, so with my passive generic adapter I don't think I would have any focus control.

The metabones should get you Aperture control and the focus by wire, perhaps even AF but I wouldn't expect the speed to be good. But research it first, as sometimes metabones don't give all features on all lenses.

-Najinsky

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zink
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Re: A7r: Pancake/collapsible - what are the options?
In reply to Eddy Teddy, Dec 13, 2013

The Olympus Pen-f 38/2.8 pancake covers the frame. But I expect bad corners. Maybe better to take a look at collapsible LTM lenses.

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Rod McD
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Re: A7r: Pancake/collapsible - what are the options?
In reply to Eddy Teddy, Dec 13, 2013

Eddy Teddy wrote:

For travel etc; what would be the smallest options for wide or 50mm on A7R? Including both FF/adapters and NEX-lenses in crop mode.

On the 50mm lens..... The flattest 50mm is probably the MF Nikon AIS 50mm/1.8 pancake.  It's available in several versions, the cheapest being the Series E which is single coated.  The better non-Series E is multi-coated.  Both are easily found and inexpensive on e-Bay.  Most have closest focus at 0.6 meters.  If you hunt hard there was also a late model pancake made for the Japan market that was multi-coated and focused down to 0.45meters, but it costs more.....

Another nice standard-ish pancake lens with an aperture ring is the Voigtlander Ultron 40mm if you like the FL and want to spend quite a bit more.

On the wide..... The new Sony FE35mm is gaining a very good reputation, but its $800. Apart from that, everyone is wondering and experimenting to find the best small and hopefully affordable legacy WA and the jury's still out.  I'm going to try a Pentax MF 20mm/2.8 and a Nikon 24mm/2.8, but I haven't got my A7r yet.:-(

Any lens with MF and it's own aperture ring will work on simple inexpensive adapters.  I've got a Metabones for Nikon F and Kipon for Pentax and the fit to lens is fine on both.

I haven't seen a lot of talk about using NEX lenses on the A7R. For travel and family photography, 15 MP is more than enough.

I don't own any native NEX lenses.  I share your view that 15mpx is easily enough for casual photography.  The reviews of the Sony 16-50 aren't stellar.  I'm thinking of the Zeiss 16-70/4  to use in crop mode for casual photography, and switch to FF with two or three primes for my serious interest in landscape images. Two cameras in one....

Another alternative would be to buy the Zeiss FE 24-70/4 and use it in crop mode for the casual and social stuff.   On 15mpx APSC it will look like a 35-105.  You then switch to FF for either wider-than-35mm, or serious, or both as you need it.  The only problem is that it's not available yet, it's larger, it's expensive, and no-one yet knows how well it will perform.  A lot depends for me on the IQ of that zoom, and probably for many other people too.

Cheers, Rod

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Clayton1985
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Re: A7r: Pancake/collapsible - what are the options?
In reply to Eddy Teddy, Dec 13, 2013

Eddy Teddy wrote:

For travel etc; what would be the smallest options for wide or 50mm on A7R? Including both FF/adapters and NEX-lenses in crop mode.

I haven't seen a lot of talk about using NEX lenses on the A7R. For travel and family photography, 15 MP is more than enough.

If you're talking about AF lenses then you could use the Zeiss 32 or Sony 35 E. Both will work fine in crop mode but will give you more coverage in FF mode if you want to crop in post. The Sony 16 and 20 would be about as compact as you can get. Here is a link that shows many of the E mount lenses.

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/cool-a7-a7r-e-mount-aps-c-lens-compatibility-image/

And if you have the 35 f2.8 FE you can use it in FF or crop mode (or crop in post) and you'd have a more versatile and compact setup vs using one of the APS-C lenses.

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cwinte
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Re: A7r: Pancake/collapsible - how bad would the PZ1650 be???
In reply to Clayton1985, Dec 13, 2013

I was just reading a post about the PZ1650, that would be your smallest if you are happy with low IQ - and for travel snaps that might be fine. I wonder if the lens is even known to the A7 series - did Sony plan for a madcap prank like that? Also it would be interesting to see what the image circle is if you opt for FF rather than APSC.

Any one can test/comment on this combination?

This all on the basis that a picture you got with a poor lens is genrally better than a missed picture with great kit, unless you suffer from perfectionism. Lots of times phones snap pictures that I could not access my kit for, they have the memory and pic - my memory often likes to be prodded by a pic. Less can be more, too!

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zink
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Re: A7r: Pancake/collapsible - what are the options?
In reply to Rod McD, Dec 13, 2013

Rod McD wrote:

Eddy Teddy wrote:

For travel etc; what would be the smallest options for wide or 50mm on A7R? Including both FF/adapters and NEX-lenses in crop mode.

On the 50mm lens..... The flattest 50mm is probably the MF Nikon AIS 50mm/1.8 pancake. It's available in several versions, the cheapest being the Series E which is single coated. The better non-Series E is multi-coated. Both are easily found and inexpensive on e-Bay. Most have closest focus at 0.6 meters. If you hunt hard there was also a late model pancake made for the Japan market that was multi-coated and focused down to 0.45meters, but it costs more.....

Another nice standard-ish pancake lens with an aperture ring is the Voigtlander Ultron 40mm if you like the FL and want to spend quite a bit more.

On the wide..... The new Sony FE35mm is gaining a very good reputation, but its $800. Apart from that, everyone is wondering and experimenting to find the best small and hopefully affordable legacy WA and the jury's still out. I'm going to try a Pentax MF 20mm/2.8 and a Nikon 24mm/2.8, but I haven't got my A7r yet.:-(

Any lens with MF and it's own aperture ring will work on simple inexpensive adapters. I've got a Metabones for Nikon F and Kipon for Pentax and the fit to lens is fine on both.

I haven't seen a lot of talk about using NEX lenses on the A7R. For travel and family photography, 15 MP is more than enough.

I don't own any native NEX lenses. I share your view that 15mpx is easily enough for casual photography. The reviews of the Sony 16-50 aren't stellar. I'm thinking of the Zeiss 16-70/4 to use in crop mode for casual photography, and switch to FF with two or three primes for my serious interest in landscape images. Two cameras in one....

Another alternative would be to buy the Zeiss FE 24-70/4 and use it in crop mode for the casual and social stuff. On 15mpx APSC it will look like a 35-105. You then switch to FF for either wider-than-35mm, or serious, or both as you need it. The only problem is that it's not available yet, it's larger, it's expensive, and no-one yet knows how well it will perform. A lot depends for me on the IQ of that zoom, and probably for many other people too.

Cheers, Rod

There are some very nice pancakes for older SLR camera's, but when you add an adapter, it is not so much pancake anymore. The FE-35 will be about the same size.

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Sonecha
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Take a look at the MS Optical, 28 or 35mm
In reply to Eddy Teddy, Dec 13, 2013

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: A7r: Pancake/collapsible - what are the options?
In reply to Eddy Teddy, Dec 13, 2013

For travel etc; what would be the smallest options for wide or 50mm on A7R? Including both FF/adapters and NEX-lenses in crop mode.

I haven't seen a lot of talk about using NEX lenses on the A7R. For travel and family photography, 15 MP is more than enough.

Sony E 20mm/2.8 is a pancake and quite good.
Sony E 35/1.8 OSS is quite compact as well but the FE 35/2.8 is even more so.

Look at LTM lenses, like Jupiter 50/2 or 50/1.5 or Canon 50/1.4 or 50/1.8 (old rangefinder lenses). For 85, Jupiter 9 (85/2) can be an inexpensive option (lack contrast wide open but quite good stopped down). IIRC, also available in LTM (these adapters are much slimmer so you save space there as well).

These old 50 and 85mm rangefinder lenses will cover FF.

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Stujomo
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Re: A7r: Pancake/collapsible - what are the options?
In reply to Eddy Teddy, Dec 13, 2013

Collapsable Leica summicron or Elmar 50mm lenses. Voightlander 35mm f2.5 pancake.

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Rod McD
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Re: A7r: Pancake/collapsible - what are the options?
In reply to zink, Dec 13, 2013

Agreed - you're quite right.  OTOH, I think most of them are 35's, 40s and 45s rather than a 50mm (which is what the OP wanted).  I think with this camera we're going to have to get used to lenses which extend a bit more from the  sensor - like the FE35 and FE55 do.  At least many of the adapted lenses are less expensive.

Rod

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zink
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Re: A7r: Pancake/collapsible - what are the options?
In reply to Rod McD, Dec 13, 2013

Rod McD wrote:

I think with this camera we're going to have to get used to lenses which extend a bit more from the sensor - like the FE35 and FE55 do. At least many of the adapted lenses are less expensive.

Rod

Yes, you are probably right. I think a pancake lens will be very hard to build with a mount so close to the sensor. And such a unforgiving sensor. There will be IQ issues with the corners. But a good collapsible design could be interesting.

However, the new a7 is a very attractive camera for me. I would love to use it with my OM lenses.

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captura
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Re: A7r: Pancake/collapsible - what are the options?
In reply to Najinsky, Dec 13, 2013

Najinsky wrote:

Eddy Teddy wrote:

For travel etc; what would be the smallest options for wide or 50mm on A7R? Including both FF/adapters and NEX-lenses in crop mode.

I haven't seen a lot of talk about using NEX lenses on the A7R. For travel and family photography, 15 MP is more than enough.

I tried the SEL16 with my A7. In short, you don't want to put that thing anywhere near your A7!!

I think a good option would be Canons unbelievably good 40mm F/2.8 pancake, using an active adapter like the metabones to get control.

I think that would be a really nice compact combo.

I was going to buy it, but being an STM lens I think it's focus by wire, so with my passive generic adapter I don't think I would have any focus control.

The metabones should get you Aperture control and the focus by wire, perhaps even AF but I wouldn't expect the speed to be good. But research it first, as sometimes metabones don't give all features on all lenses.

-Najinsky

True enough but is it worth the expense of the Metabones smart adapter?

Someone posted some reasonable images taken with the 16/2.8 on an A7 the other day. I'm waiting to see if somebody tries the 1650 collapsible lens. That might suit the OP until such time as Sony deigns to grace us with some more FE lenses.

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: A7r: Pancake/collapsible - what are the options?
In reply to zink, Dec 13, 2013

Rod McD wrote:

I think with this camera we're going to have to get used to lenses which extend a bit more from the sensor - like the FE35 and FE55 do. At least many of the adapted lenses are less expensive.

Rod

Yes, you are probably right. I think a pancake lens will be very hard to build with a mount so close to the sensor. And such a unforgiving sensor. There will be IQ issues with the corners. But a good collapsible design could be interesting.

However, the new a7 is a very attractive camera for me. I would love to use it with my OM lenses.

I would suggest LTM lenses. Short adapter, small lenses. Jupiter-3/8 (50mm) and Jupiter-9 (85mm) should be very good lenses on A7.

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captura
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Re: A7r: Pancake/collapsible - what are the options? )
In reply to zink, Dec 13, 2013

zink wrote:

The Olympus Pen-f 38/2.8 pancake covers the frame. But I expect bad corners. Maybe better to take a look at collapsible LTM lenses.

Interesting but would they not also produce significant vignetting? And I also searched for A-mount pancakes with no success.

Say, off-topic but lookee-here at this old SAR post:

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr2-new-info-about-the-mysterious-a-mount-nex-styled-camera/

"New info about the mysterious A-mount NEX styled camera"

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