Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor

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a l b e r t
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Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor
10 months ago

I was at the local Fujifilm store and I watched an intro video on the X-E2.  They have this running on a 40" LCD TV.

Two things that caught my eyes:

1. Fuji claimed 25% resolution improvement with LMO

2. The sensor in X-E2 has 30% lower noise due to circuit optimization

I don't know exactly how many stops does this translate to lower high ISO noise.  Maybe 1/3 of a stop?

I could not find the same video on Youtube or on Fujifilm website.

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ryan2007
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Re: Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor
In reply to a l b e r t, 10 months ago

One thing about manufactures that I could never really find out is if the camera they advertise actually took the video or stills.

The only other thing you can do is personally take both cameras with the same lens, same lighting, same exposures, same camera moves, just everything and see what happens.

It would be ground breaking if a still camera could just do image stabilization like a dedicated video camera.

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flbrit
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Re: Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor
In reply to a l b e r t, 10 months ago

a l b e r t wrote:

I was at the local Fujifilm store and I watched an intro video on the X-E2. They have this running on a 40" LCD TV.

Two things that caught my eyes:

1. Fuji claimed 25% resolution improvement with LMO

2. The sensor in X-E2 has 30% lower noise due to circuit optimization

I don't know exactly how many stops does this translate to lower high ISO noise. Maybe 1/3 of a stop?

I could not find the same video on Youtube or on Fujifilm website.

Interesting claim about the sensor noise improvement. There is evidence that the sensor in the Nikon Df is showing some improvement over the 'same' sensor in the D4 and the thought over there (the Nikon DSLR FX forum) is that this is also due to circuit optimization. Looks like Fujifilm could be right.

Brian

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PortraitShooter
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Re: Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor
In reply to a l b e r t, 10 months ago

a l b e r t wrote:

Two things that caught my eyes:

1. Fuji claimed 25% resolution improvement with LMO

2. The sensor in X-E2 has 30% lower noise due to circuit optimization

I can't comment on the effect of LMO.

X-E2 noise on ISO 6400 in LR5.3 seems substantially better than X-E1. I never used it on X-E1, now it is very useable.

JPG it is a mixed bag. X-E2 smoothens skin tones under warm light far too much even with NR=-2. Not so under cooler light or other color tones.

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kewlguy
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Re: Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor
In reply to PortraitShooter, 10 months ago

Yeah I hope Fuji would fix that plastic-face issue soon. I prefer X-E1's JPG at high iso.

Overall, though, FUji's JPG is not as crisp as I expected from a camera with no AA filter. Not even with +2 sharpness.

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BillyInya
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Re: Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor
In reply to kewlguy, 10 months ago

kewlguy wrote:

Yeah I hope Fuji would fix that plastic-face issue soon. I prefer X-E1's JPG at high iso.

Overall, though, FUji's JPG is not as crisp as I expected from a camera with no AA filter. Not even with +2 sharpness.

I happen to agree with you. Skin tones out of the X-E1 are classic Fuji (ridiculously superb). But I am not seeing this from the X-E2. Even my old S3 Pro seems to do skin tones better than the X-E2 from what I can see.

There's a fair few reasons why I personally am thankful I didn't upgrade to the X-E2. One is the extra elements in front of the photossites which the X-E1 hasn't got and the other is skin tones. I'm pretty fussy about sharpness, color depth and skin tones so I'm staying with the X-E1 for sure.

This does NOT mean I am saying the X-E2 is "bad". I am sure it is a great camera for many, just not for me.

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vivanchenko
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Re: Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor
In reply to BillyInya, 10 months ago

E2's ISO is even more overrated than it is for the rest of X cameras. That's the secrete of that circuit optimization. Check out the studio tool. So, something like ISO 5000, or even less, of all X cameras is equivalent to ISO 6400 of E2.

In other words, E2's ability to shoot raw is limited to pretty low ISO. It is something below 5000. Not sure I would like it.

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dengx
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Re: Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor
In reply to vivanchenko, 10 months ago

vivanchenko wrote:

E2's ISO is even more overrated than it is for the rest of X cameras.

It is not. Apart the dpreview's studio comparison tool everyone else claimed it's the other way.

Regards

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PortraitShooter
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Re: Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor
In reply to kewlguy, 10 months ago

kewlguy wrote:

Overall, though, FUji's JPG is not as crisp as I expected from a camera with no AA filter. Not even with +2 sharpness.

I think you can't have both, the Fuji smoothness of transitions and the Ricoh GR sharpness. I love the Fuji smoothness FAR more.

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PortraitShooter
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Re: Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor
In reply to vivanchenko, 10 months ago

vivanchenko wrote:

In other words, E2's ability to shoot raw is limited to pretty low ISO. It is something below 5000. Not sure I would like it.

Do you have any evidence? My images show the contrary. I can't show the images here as they are of kids.

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vivanchenko
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Re: Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor
In reply to dengx, 10 months ago

dengx wrote:

vivanchenko wrote:

E2's ISO is even more overrated than it is for the rest of X cameras.

It is not. Apart the dpreview's studio comparison tool everyone else claimed it's the other way.

Regards

This is very, very strange. Does anyone know where or how this can be independently verified? Because it is a deal breaker for me and I believe for many other people. New users of expensive gear tend to be biased.

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vivanchenko
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Re: Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor
In reply to PortraitShooter, 10 months ago

PortraitShooter wrote:

vivanchenko wrote:

In other words, E2's ability to shoot raw is limited to pretty low ISO. It is something below 5000. Not sure I would like it.

Do you have any evidence? My images show the contrary. I can't show the images here as they are of kids.

Of cause I do. That's the problem:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=fujifilm_xm1&attr13_1=fujifilm_xe2&attr13_2=nikon_d7100&attr13_3=canon_eos5dmkiii&attr15_0=jpeg&attr15_1=jpeg&attr15_2=jpeg&attr15_3=jpeg&attr16_0=6400&attr16_1=6400&attr16_2=6400&attr16_3=6400&normalization=full&widget=1&x=0.7162175404213621&y=-0.594158683881716

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Re: Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor
In reply to PortraitShooter, 10 months ago

vivanchenko wrote:

In other words, E2's ability to shoot raw is limited to pretty low ISO. It is something below 5000. Not sure I would like it.

Do you have any evidence? My images show the contrary. I can't show the images here as they are of kids.

Think there is plenty on the Web, I've read many times that fuji are a bit naughty with iso ratings.

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bigpigbig
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Re: Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor
In reply to stimpy, 10 months ago

stimpy wrote:

vivanchenko wrote:

In other words, E2's ability to shoot raw is limited to pretty low ISO. It is something below 5000. Not sure I would like it.

Do you have any evidence? My images show the contrary. I can't show the images here as they are of kids.

Think there is plenty on the Web, I've read many times that fuji are a bit naughty with iso ratings.

If it is on the web it must be true. A lie on the web gets spread like wildfire.

"naughty" is not the right word.

I have done side by side comparisons using a Sekonic light meter. First of all, it is not linear. What I mean is at low to medium (up to ISO 1600) ISO there was less than 1/3 stop difference between the meter, Nikon D800e and Fuji XE-1. Above that both the D800e and XE-1 were less sensitive than the meter with the XE-1 varying up to about 2/3 of a stop at ISO 6400.

All that means is that Fuji chooses to measure ISO differently than Nikon and Sekonic. But digital ISO is defined in a very lose, flexible way that builds this variability in.

Now, who am I to believe. I am an expert. I am a professional photographer. I am a photography teacher. But I could be lying.

My advice, test it for yourself, it is not that hard to do. So many people read the Internet for information that they could easily verify and worse yet, spread misinformation. I am not accusing anyone here of that, please don't take it the wrong way, it is just a fact. These forums are chock full of restated misinformation.

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bigpigbig
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Re: Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor
In reply to bigpigbig, 10 months ago

By the way, I was lying. I am no expert.

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John Carson
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Re: Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor
In reply to vivanchenko, 10 months ago

vivanchenko wrote:

dengx wrote:

vivanchenko wrote:

E2's ISO is even more overrated than it is for the rest of X cameras.

It is not. Apart the dpreview's studio comparison tool everyone else claimed it's the other way.

Regards

This is very, very strange. Does anyone know where or how this can be independently verified?

There are different ways of measuring these things, so if the difference are small, I suggest that the issue is not worth bothering with.

Because it is a deal breaker for me and I believe for many other people.

Why a deal breaker? If ISOs are misstated, then you need to correct them to get a fairer comparison with other cameras, but surely the issue is how IQ compares once the correction has been made. ISO may be overstated, but the X-E2 may still have the best low-light performance of any APS-C (or smaller) camera.

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john carson

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Bernie Ess
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Re: Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor
In reply to a l b e r t, 10 months ago

1. Fuji claimed 25% resolution improvement with LMO

2. The sensor in X-E2 has 30% lower noise due to circuit optimization

ad 1.: They also claimed resolution of the X-Pro1 being on par with 5dII and it clearly isn't the case. 16MP is enough in many situations, it is just less than 21 or 24, and it shows in the files. I tested it several times.

I had the X-E2 for a short while (a few days to test, then gave it back) and e 25% advantage through LMO seem like an absurd advertisement exageration. I even doubt it is 5%. Maybe 2-3%.

I did not use the camera enough to judge if high ISO is so much better. I had some very good files at ISO 4000 - 6400, but others at ISO800 were almost as noisy.

The reason I sent it back was that the EVF is still now what I expected it to be, that the 35/1,4 still hunted in dim outside light and that Fuji seems to have changed the colour response of the camera versus the Mk I, both in RAW and JPEG and I did not like it.

Maybe the new camera with the big EVF will please me more.

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vivanchenko
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Re: Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor
In reply to John Carson, 10 months ago

John Carson wrote:

vivanchenko wrote:

dengx wrote:

vivanchenko wrote:

E2's ISO is even more overrated than it is for the rest of X cameras.

It is not. Apart the dpreview's studio comparison tool everyone else claimed it's the other way.

Regards

This is very, very strange. Does anyone know where or how this can be independently verified?

There are different ways of measuring these things, so if the difference are small, I suggest that the issue is not worth bothering with.

Because it is a deal breaker for me and I believe for many other people.

Why a deal breaker? If ISOs are misstated, then you need to correct them to get a fairer comparison with other cameras, but surely the issue is how IQ compares once the correction has been made. ISO may be overstated, but the X-E2 may still have the best low-light performance of any APS-C (or smaller) camera.

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john carson

What's the point in great high ISO performance if there is no high ISO?

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hellocrowley
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Re: Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor
In reply to vivanchenko, 10 months ago

vivanchenko wrote:

John Carson wrote:

vivanchenko wrote:

dengx wrote:

vivanchenko wrote:

E2's ISO is even more overrated than it is for the rest of X cameras.

It is not. Apart the dpreview's studio comparison tool everyone else claimed it's the other way.

Regards

This is very, very strange. Does anyone know where or how this can be independently verified?

There are different ways of measuring these things, so if the difference are small, I suggest that the issue is not worth bothering with.

Because it is a deal breaker for me and I believe for many other people.

Why a deal breaker? If ISOs are misstated, then you need to correct them to get a fairer comparison with other cameras, but surely the issue is how IQ compares once the correction has been made. ISO may be overstated, but the X-E2 may still have the best low-light performance of any APS-C (or smaller) camera.

-- hide signature --

john carson

What's the point in great high ISO performance if there is no high ISO?

So you can brag about it. Don't get me wrong, the X system is great, but the greatest thing Fuji pulled off was their marketing strategy. They don't shy away from hyping and paying money for endorsement. Unlike CaNikon who seem to be content with their dominance, Fuji's aggressively pushing their products here in my country, giving big margin to retailers, paying admins of photo forums to frequently plug their products, buying up newspaper space.

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PortraitShooter
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Re: Here is what Fuji said about the X-E2 sensor
In reply to vivanchenko, 10 months ago

vivanchenko wrote:

PortraitShooter wrote:

vivanchenko wrote:

In other words, E2's ability to shoot raw is limited to pretty low ISO. It is something below 5000. Not sure I would like it.

Do you have any evidence? My images show the contrary. I can't show the images here as they are of kids.

Of cause I do. That's the problem:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=fujifilm_xm1&attr13_1=fujifilm_xe2&attr13_2=nikon_d7100&attr13_3=canon_eos5dmkiii&attr15_0=jpeg&attr15_1=jpeg&attr15_2=jpeg&attr15_3=jpeg&attr16_0=6400&attr16_1=6400&attr16_2=6400&attr16_3=6400&normalization=full&widget=1&x=0.7162175404213621&y=-0.594158683881716

What I see is less detail on the X-E2 raw and tons and tons of chroma noise on the Nikon 7100, and some even on the Canon 5D Mk III. One has to decide what is preferred.

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