Which produces sharper images? 6D vs 5D3

Started Dec 12, 2013 | Questions
jimbrobb
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Which produces sharper images? 6D vs 5D3
Dec 12, 2013

Talking about RAW images processed with DPP.

6D RAW files seem smaller than they should be even though they are 20mp vs 22mp.

Anyone have both cameras?

Jim

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Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EOS 6D
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waitformee
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Re: Which produces sharper images? 6D vs 5D3
In reply to jimbrobb, Dec 13, 2013

jimbrobb wrote:

Talking about RAW images processed with DPP.

6D RAW files seem smaller than they should be even though they are 20mp vs 22mp.

Anyone have both cameras?

Jim

Your question is wrong. If you see dxomark, they will tell you the higher megapixel camera produces sharper photos. << this is similarly because it is high megapixels. You try to use the same photo and downsize to 2mps and 1mps. Then view them at a size fitting your monitor, you will naturally see what dxomarks means.

Most of the time, it is the lens that determines the photo sharpness. that is why there are L Lenses. L Lenses may not be super fast lenses (big apertures) but they are surely sharp lenses.

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Rick Knepper
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Re: Which produces sharper images? 6D vs 5D3
In reply to jimbrobb, Dec 13, 2013

jimbrobb wrote:

Talking about RAW images processed with DPP.

6D RAW files seem smaller than they should be even though they are 20mp vs 22mp.

Anyone have both cameras?

Jim

I am not sure I even understand the question. On a recent photo trip, I used a 5D3 and 6D (and a D800E but that is beside the point). In looking over my keeper folder, I have the following ranges in the Canon file sizes:

5D3 high = 35,259 kb

5D3 low = 24,302 kb

6D high = 30,817 kb

6D low = 21,010 kb

These values seem to relate to how light or dark the tones are in the file.

I just got my 6D 3-4 weeks ago and have been meaning to do my obligatory side by side comparison(s), probably with the 24-70 II but the weather has been spotty on the subsequent weekends. Maybe there'll be a break in the weather this weekend. I'll post those results.

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jimbrobb
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Re: Which produces sharper images? 6D vs 5D3
In reply to Rick Knepper, Dec 13, 2013

Thanks guys, would be interesting to see a side by side comparison.

Jim

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DotCom Editor
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The one with the better photographer (nt)
In reply to jimbrobb, Dec 13, 2013

mayja look

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qianp2k
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Re: Which produces sharper images? 6D vs 5D3
In reply to jimbrobb, Dec 13, 2013

If you check DXO lens test data, you will see with the same lenses, 5D3 is noticeable higher in mpix numbers in average, such as with relative new Canon 35/2.0 IS, it's 20 vs 18 mpix, that basically reflects on the MP difference between two cameras. The sensors in 5D3 (likely also in 6D) does have an improvement in resolving details over last generations. DXO said 5D3 has average 15% of higher mpix numbers over 5D2 on all its tested lenses despite there is only 1mp difference between two sensors.

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Rick Knepper
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Re: Which produces sharper images? 6D vs 5D3
In reply to qianp2k, Dec 13, 2013

qianp2k wrote:

If you check DXO lens test data, you will see with the same lenses, 5D3 is noticeable higher in mpix numbers in average, such as with relative new Canon 35/2.0 IS, it's 20 vs 18 mpix, that basically reflects on the MP difference between two cameras. The sensors in 5D3 (likely also in 6D) does have an improvement in resolving details over last generations. DXO said 5D3 has average 15% of higher mpix numbers over 5D2 on all its tested lenses despite there is only 1mp difference between two sensors.

Actually, thisĀ improvement partially contributed to me finally purchasing the 5D3. Picking one upĀ cheap as a refurb plus additional discounts under the Canon Loyalty Program and selling my 5D2 also helped.

Can't say there is enough of an increase in resolved details to justify the purchase alone but the sheer number of modern improvements in the 5D3 (over the 5D2) has the made a world of difference in my work flow in the field and at the computer.

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Victor Engel
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Re: Which produces sharper images? 6D vs 5D3
In reply to jimbrobb, Dec 14, 2013

File size relates to number of pixels. It also relates to what sort of compression is used. But it also depends upon the data being compressed.

Let's say the 6D and 5D3 both use the same compression algorithm. I've no reason to believe they don't. Just for the sake of argument, let's further assume they have the same pixel count. Then the one that produced the smaller files would be the one with less noise.

Smaller files are evidence of better noise performance. I'm not sure that's what you're seeing here, since I don't know either camera, but it's something to consider.

Along similar lines, different AA filters and sensor designs would make one more sensitive to detail than the other. The one more sensitive to detail, aliased or not, would not compress as well.

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Victor Engel

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Pultzar
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Focus points
In reply to Rick Knepper, Dec 15, 2013

I would love to see a comparison on focus point accuracy.  See my troubles using the outer points here:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52719379

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Brad Evans
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Re: Eh...
In reply to jimbrobb, Dec 15, 2013

Overall the differences are mice nuts.

The power of photograph and its ability to communicate, comes from your eye, imagination, and being able to compose what's before you into a frame that stirs the viewer's mind (in a nutshell). Rarely is it about technicals.

Photos that are about sharpness or some other technical parameter in the end bore me with usually having nothing to say.

............
Brad
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t.c. marino
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Re: Eh...
In reply to Brad Evans, Dec 16, 2013

Brad Evans wrote:

Overall the differences are mice nuts.

The power of photograph and its ability to communicate, comes from your eye, imagination, and being able to compose what's before you into a frame that stirs the viewer's mind (in a nutshell). Rarely is it about technicals.

Photos that are about sharpness or some other technical parameter in the end bore me with usually having nothing to say.

............
Brad
Urban photoblog: http://www.citysnaps.net
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wow,this might be the best reply i have ever heard in the endless chatter about sharpness diff. between cameras/brands.thank you

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nikonshooter

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24Peter
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Re: Eh...
In reply to t.c. marino, Dec 16, 2013

t.c. marino wrote:

Brad Evans wrote:

Overall the differences are mice nuts.

The power of photograph and its ability to communicate, comes from your eye, imagination, and being able to compose what's before you into a frame that stirs the viewer's mind (in a nutshell). Rarely is it about technicals.

Photos that are about sharpness or some other technical parameter in the end bore me with usually having nothing to say.

............
Brad
Urban photoblog: http://www.citysnaps.net
.

wow,this might be the best reply i have ever heard in the endless chatter about sharpness diff. between cameras/brands.thank you

While perhaps a little harsh, I have to agree with Brad. There are sooooooooooooooooo many other things that go into making a great photo than which camera is sharper. In fact, the 6D & 5DIII are sooooooooooo close in this regard, it is a total non-issue.

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qianp2k
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Re: Eh...
In reply to t.c. marino, Dec 16, 2013

t.c. marino wrote:

Brad Evans wrote:

Overall the differences are mice nuts.

The power of photograph and its ability to communicate, comes from your eye, imagination, and being able to compose what's before you into a frame that stirs the viewer's mind (in a nutshell). Rarely is it about technicals.

Photos that are about sharpness or some other technical parameter in the end bore me with usually having nothing to say.

............
Brad
Urban photoblog: http://www.citysnaps.net
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wow,this might be the best reply i have ever heard in the endless chatter about sharpness diff. between cameras/brands.thank you

I agree Brad said in general that the difference among today's cameras on the same formats such as full frame is pretty small, so that also applied between 6D and D610/D600 and 5D3 and D800 (if don't need to print huge such as at 20x30" or below).

Interesting enough is that you seem said differently in different posts in different threads. In a few posts in other threads, you suggested I denied sensor difference (not actually) between Canon and Nikon but I only dispute the exaggeration that there will be a big difference in real world photos as sensors alone never take photos but must together with "imperfect" lenses, and DR difference is largely overexaggerated by some (not to you specific) as the only decisive factor.

BTW, I have followed Sony A7R/A7 threads in DPR forum, and in other sites closely these days as I am interested. From what I have seen, most photos are nothing that spectacular above current Canon offering (and I am not really like Sony colors), but few are really impressive that certainly above anything Canon can do at this moment. I don't know which one I'd pickup between two if I want to buy. A7R has better resolution but that is not my #1 priority. A7 at other side would be a better choice if as Steve Huff said has higher hit rate when hand-held, but I read some said otherwise that A7 AF hung in low light (that itself is also not that critical as I'd use tripod in real low light but not in quasi low-light at ISO 800 for example). Maybe I'd jump on the hype of DR bandwagon to get one of them before my March central EU trip to give a run (with FE 35/2.8 and Canon EF lenses thru adapter)

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Mako2011
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small
In reply to qianp2k, Dec 16, 2013

qianp2k wrote:

t.c. marino wrote:

Brad Evans wrote:

Overall the differences are mice nuts.

The power of photograph and its ability to communicate, comes from your eye, imagination, and being able to compose what's before you into a frame that stirs the viewer's mind (in a nutshell). Rarely is it about technicals.

Photos that are about sharpness or some other technical parameter in the end bore me with usually having nothing to say.

............
Brad
Urban photoblog: http://www.citysnaps.net
.

wow,this might be the best reply i have ever heard in the endless chatter about sharpness diff. between cameras/brands.thank you

I agree Brad said in general that the difference among today's cameras on the same formats such as full frame is pretty small, so that also applied between 6D and D610/D600 and 5D3 and D800 (if don't need to print huge such as at 20x30" or below).

Sigma 12-24...

5DIII = 8P-Mpix
D610 = 10P-Mpix
D800 = 10P-Mpix
6D = 8P-Mpix

Sigma 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM APO Macro...

5DIII = 17P-Mpix
D610 = 18P-Mpix
D800 = 17P-Mpix
6D = 16P-Mpix

So I would agree the differences are small and won't start showing until bigger prints or heavy crops...assuming all well processed and exposed. Same really with all the other differences...  aren't going to show up except in the extremes of shooting.  Average person isn't going to see that much of a dif between the different entry level FF's or the Pro Level FF's.  Best to flip a coin then go take some classes on processing and exposure

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Rick Knepper
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Re: Eh...
In reply to t.c. marino, Dec 17, 2013

t.c. marino wrote:

wow,this might be the best reply i have ever heard in the endless chatter about sharpness diff. between cameras/brands.thank you

Or one of the worst. If folks don't know the answer, and this is no answer, just stay out of it. Who cares what bores Brad?

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Rick Knepper
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Link to 6D vs 5D3 comparison thread.
In reply to jimbrobb, Dec 17, 2013

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52727152

You'll have to be willing to download the RAWs and do your own comparisons.

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kewlguy
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Ughh....
In reply to Brad Evans, Dec 17, 2013

Brad Evans wrote:

are mice nuts

OK let's get more into these...LOL

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EDWARD ARTISTE
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Re: Eh...
In reply to Rick Knepper, Dec 24, 2013

I would figure that no one in their right mind would want to take softie portraits or landscape photos with their expensive camera. I dont get that point of view at all. That view seems pretty elitist to me.

I have downloaded a bunch of 6d raws from site and user reviews around the net and noticed a softness with most (not all) of the example files. I also demoed a 6d at BH-  it had great, accurate Af with all points, pretty darn effortlessly - which led me to get the first one replaced. I have not seen this mush/soft effect on 5d2/5d3 raw files ive viewed.

Personally, Im on my 2nd 6d (replacement). the first- refurb - had atrocious, laughable AF. The one in my hands now is better but I have yet to test it much. I have noticed a relatively moderate amount of oof shots, even with the trusty IS of the 24-105, which has me slightly perturbed thus far. Fingers crossed.

my 2/c

PS great camera, canon really didnt do the Af justice

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KLO82
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Re: small
In reply to Mako2011, Dec 24, 2013

Mako2011 wrote:

Sigma 12-24...

5DIII = 8P-Mpix
D610 = 10P-Mpix
D800 = 10P-Mpix
6D = 8P-Mpix

Sigma 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM APO Macro...

5DIII = 17P-Mpix
D610 = 18P-Mpix
D800 = 17P-Mpix
6D = 16P-Mpix

It seems that to get higher P-Mpix value from higher MP camera you need very high quality glasses.

Zeiss Distagon T* Otus 1.4/55 ($4,000!)
5DIII = 21 P-Mpix

D610 = 23 P-Mpix
D800 = 29 P-Mpix

6D = 19 P-Mpix

Whereas Nikon's own 85mm f1.8 G is not good enough to give D800 any advantage over D610:
D610 = 19 P-Mpix
D800 = 19 P-Mpix
D4 = 14 P-Mpix

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tarjei99
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Re: Eh...
In reply to EDWARD ARTISTE, Dec 24, 2013

For any side by side test to be reasonably valid, all participating cameras and lenses have to be calibrated. Or verified to be within spec in some other way.

If I bought a new EOS, I would do a quick test to see if it is sharp and then send it for calibration since it is free over here (at least if you are a CPN member) in the warranty period.

It is a bit annoying that the warranty period is 2 years, while they will fix the camera within five years of purchase if it is bought locally. The latter is nice, they just fixed my four year old 7D with intermittent err-30 errors and sent it back by courier free of charge. I really enjoyed that.

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