Is the k3 ISOless?

Started 4 months ago | Polls
Tim A2
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Is the k3 ISOless?
4 months ago
No text.
POLL
Yes
5.7% 3  votes
No
17.0% 9  votes
Don't know
26.4% 14  votes
Don't care
45.3% 24  votes
Not totally ISOless. It still has some ISO.
5.7% 3  votes
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MightyMike
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Re: Is the k3 ISOless?
In reply to Tim A2, 4 months ago

Don't care... just use the camera and enjoy! no need to go niggling around with recently invented up terminology... it shouldn't really affect the way you use the camera or the results from the camera its just a newly imagined idea to define the cameras capabilities.

Answer me this, are the D7100 or any of the other 24mp APS-C Sony or Nikon cameras ISOless? I'm sure its already been asked and answered many times in those forums.

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Mike from Canada
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Bob Corson
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Re: Is the k3 ISOless?
In reply to Tim A2, 4 months ago

Tim A2 wrote:

WTF  is ISOless????

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Bob Corson
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david tittermary
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Re: Is the k3 ISOless?
In reply to Bob Corson, 4 months ago

Bob Corson wrote:

Tim A2 wrote:

WTF is ISOless????

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Bob Corson
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http://1000wordpics.blogspot.com/2013/01/what-does-it-mean-when-we-say-that.html

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Andr3w
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Re: Is the k3 ISOless?
In reply to Tim A2, 4 months ago

I could care less. I shoot everything at ISO 80 anyhow.

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Bob Corson
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Re: Is the k3 ISOless?
In reply to david tittermary, 4 months ago

david tittermary wrote:

Bob Corson wrote:

Tim A2 wrote:

WTF is ISOless????

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Bob Corson
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http://1000wordpics.blogspot.com/2013/01/what-does-it-mean-when-we-say-that.html

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Thanks David. Interesting read.

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Bob Corson
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david tittermary
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Re: Is the k3 ISOless?
In reply to Andr3w, 4 months ago

I could care less. I shoot everything at ISO 80 anyhow.

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To each his own I some times shoot fashion at 6400 plus just for the gritty look I'm not afraid of ISO
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dane dawg
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Re: Is the k3 ISOless?
In reply to Andr3w, 4 months ago

I could care less. I shoot everything at ISO 80 anyhow.

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I guess you dont own a k-3 then..
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Tim A2
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Re: Is the k3 ISOless?
In reply to MightyMike, 4 months ago

MightyMike wrote:

Don't care... just use the camera and enjoy! no need to go niggling around with recently invented up terminology... it shouldn't really affect the way you use the camera or the results from the camera its just a newly imagined idea to define the cameras capabilities.

Answer me this, are the D7100 or any of the other 24mp APS-C Sony or Nikon cameras ISOless? I'm sure its already been asked and answered many times in those forums.

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Mike from Canada

My understanding is that all most photographers need to know about ISOless cameras is whether or not theirs is  or not and if it is how to take advantage of it in low light situations.

There has been quite a bit of  general and technical discussions about ISOless cameras, but all  I could find, without spending more time than I cared to, about the cameras you mentioned is that apparently the D7100 is more ISOful than the D7000.

I think it will be interesting to gauge from this poll the interest or lack of interest in the subject among owners of Pentax cameras.

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MightyMike
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Re: Is the k3 ISOless?
In reply to Tim A2, 4 months ago

Tim A2 wrote:

MightyMike wrote:

Don't care... just use the camera and enjoy! no need to go niggling around with recently invented up terminology... it shouldn't really affect the way you use the camera or the results from the camera its just a newly imagined idea to define the cameras capabilities.

Answer me this, are the D7100 or any of the other 24mp APS-C Sony or Nikon cameras ISOless? I'm sure its already been asked and answered many times in those forums.

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Mike from Canada

My understanding is that all most photographers need to know about ISOless cameras is whether or not theirs is or not and if it is how to take advantage of it in low light situations.

There has been quite a bit of general and technical discussions about ISOless cameras, but all I could find, without spending more time than I cared to, about the cameras you mentioned is that apparently the D7100 is more ISOful than the D7000.

I think it will be interesting to gauge from this poll the interest or lack of interest in the subject among owners of Pentax cameras.

If you know how to do photography and you know your system then that is all you need to know to take advantage of its possibilities. Stuff like ETTR or ETTL or ISOless benefits were things i figured out years before they were ever defined... I didn't need no new stinking definition to tell me how to make the most of my camera, I used the camera and figured out how to get the best out of it naturally. This is what people should be focused on, not some new unnecessary definition that really just confuses most people. If you truly know photography and know how the camera responds to various settings in various conditions then there is no need for anyone to define new terminology for you, just use the freaken camera! Go out take pictures and don't waste time niggling over a petty new definition. Clearly as far as I'm concerned knowing if the camera is ISOless or not will do nothing for me in getting that next shot, either i know how to use the camera or i don't plain and simple!

What the heck does ISOful mean? yeash people making up random new terminology for the sake of it methinks!

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Mike from Canada
"I am not a great photographer! God is a great creator! All I do is capture His creation with the tools He has provided me."
'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote :)'
http://www.michaelfastphotography.com/galleries/VP-BDI_3a.jpg
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=views%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=180&&emailsearch=mighty_mike88%40hotmail.com&thumbnails=

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JeffAHayes
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Re: Is the k3 ISOless?
In reply to MightyMike, 4 months ago

I don't even know what that means, just like I'm STILL uncertain what "how many angels can fit on the head of a pin" means. And I figure both questions have about equal meaning and practicality.

Jeff

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ozdean
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Re: Is the k3 ISOless?
In reply to Tim A2, 4 months ago

Great question - you've stumped me.

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KL Matt
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Re: Is the k3 ISOless?
In reply to Bob Corson, 4 months ago

WTF is ISOless????

My guess: an IQless way of saying "very low-noise."

M

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Tim A2
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Re: Is the k3 ISOless?
In reply to MightyMike, 4 months ago

MightyMike wrote:

Tim A2 wrote:

MightyMike wrote:

Don't care... just use the camera and enjoy! no need to go niggling around with recently invented up terminology... it shouldn't really affect the way you use the camera or the results from the camera its just a newly imagined idea to define the cameras capabilities.

Answer me this, are the D7100 or any of the other 24mp APS-C Sony or Nikon cameras ISOless? I'm sure its already been asked and answered many times in those forums.

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Mike from Canada

My understanding is that all most photographers need to know about ISOless cameras is whether or not theirs is or not and if it is how to take advantage of it in low light situations.

There has been quite a bit of general and technical discussions about ISOless cameras, but all I could find, without spending more time than I cared to, about the cameras you mentioned is that apparently the D7100 is more ISOful than the D7000.

I think it will be interesting to gauge from this poll the interest or lack of interest in the subject among owners of Pentax cameras.

If you know how to do photography and you know your system then that is all you need to know to take advantage of its possibilities. Stuff like ETTR or ETTL or ISOless benefits were things i figured out years before they were ever defined... I didn't need no new stinking definition to tell me how to make the most of my camera, I used the camera and figured out how to get the best out of it naturally. This is what people should be focused on, not some new unnecessary definition that really just confuses most people. If you truly know photography and know how the camera responds to various settings in various conditions then there is no need for anyone to define new terminology for you, just use the freaken camera! Go out take pictures and don't waste time niggling over a petty new definition. Clearly as far as I'm concerned knowing if the camera is ISOless or not will do nothing for me in getting that next shot, either i know how to use the camera or i don't plain and simple!

What the heck does ISOful mean? yeash people making up random new terminology for the sake of it methinks

More ISOful just means less ISOless.  

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Mike from Canada

Well if the utility of an ISOless sensor can be judged by the amount of interest in it and the number of people taking advantage of it, then  the impression I get from this poll result is that there must not be much of anything useful to be gained from it and the question as to whether or not the K3 is ISOLess is only academic, so like you say let's "go out and take pictures". Maybe this winter storm that is on my doorstep will provide some good photo ops.

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Roland Karlsson
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Re: Is the k3 ISOless?
In reply to MightyMike, 4 months ago

MightyMike wrote:

Don't care... just use the camera and enjoy! no need to go niggling around with recently invented up terminology... it shouldn't really affect the way you use the camera or the results from the camera its just a newly imagined idea to define the cameras capabilities.

Answer me this, are the D7100 or any of the other 24mp APS-C Sony or Nikon cameras ISOless? I'm sure its already been asked and answered many times in those forums.

It is not unimportant. It actually do affect how you use the camera. If it is ISO less then you can shoot at lower ISO and under expose. This will give you more headroom for clipping.

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moving_comfort
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It would be kind of cool if it was.
In reply to Tim A2, 4 months ago

"ISOless" is a mildly interesting concept.  Very basically if a sensor has very low read noise at base ISO, and this read noise curve remains flat as you move up in ISO, you could conceivably shoot everything at base-ISO and then just push in post to brighten the image.  You would get the same or better* results doing that than shooting at ISO 800, 1600, 6400, whatever.

*  'better' because you'd have more DR to work with if you shot at base-ISO, would be less likely to blow highlights, etc.

Caveat:  Cameras are not being built to take advantage of that yet, even if the sensor is capable!  The LCD display requires in-camera brightening to show the shooter what he just shot :), and this brightening is applied to the entire file and the small embedded display jpeg is rendered from that.

some thoughts on ISOless from sensorsgen guy.

.

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kh1234567890
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Re: Is the k3 ISOless?
In reply to Roland Karlsson, 4 months ago

It is very simple to tell. Just shoot some grey card or the same scene at different ISO and look at the RAW histograms. If it is anything like the K-5's you'll discover that the 14 bit data range at base ISO actually drops down to 6 bits as you increase the ISO (even before dark current subtraction and in-camera noise reduction kick in). Scary ...

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stuntmonkey
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Re: It would be kind of cool if it was.
In reply to moving_comfort, 4 months ago

moving_comfort wrote:

"ISOless" is a mildly interesting concept. Very basically if a sensor has very low read noise at base ISO, and this read noise curve remains flat as you move up in ISO, you could conceivably shoot everything at base-ISO and then just push in post to brighten the image. You would get the same or better* results doing that than shooting at ISO 800, 1600, 6400, whatever.

To a certain extent, all the modern sensors (save for the Canons because of off-sensor ADC's) in the past year or so are "ISO-less", but the truth seems to be that there are varying degrees.The trend seems towards on-camera ADC with low clock rates; Canon has stayed with the other approach because they are big into video and astrophotography.

The D7000 was the camera that really got that reputation, but I think it's in part due to how Nikon clipped the blacks coming out of that camera. Bias frames from the D7000 seem "unnaturally black" and generally unsuitable for deep sky astrophotography. Nikon seems to have backed away from that approach for the D5300, but as to what that means, it it's a Sensorgen/Iliah Borg type of a question that's above my pay-grade.

With the limited time that I had with a K-3, I think it's better than the D7100... less banding and pattern noise... but that you wouldn't want to abuse the file in post processing either In any case, pushing an ISO-less camera in post or raising the ISO in camera, you still get a drop in dynamic range, so no matter which way you do it, the exposure still has to be correct to be optimal.

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david tittermary
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Re: It would be kind of cool if it was.
In reply to moving_comfort, 4 months ago

"ISOless" is a mildly interesting concept.  Very basically if a sensor has very low read noise at base ISO, and this read noise curve remains flat as you move up in ISO, you could conceivably shoot everything at base-ISO and then just push in post to brighten the image.  You would get the same or better* results doing that than shooting at ISO 800, 1600, 6400, whatever.

*  'better' because you'd have more DR to work with if you shot at base-ISO, would be less likely to blow highlights, etc.

Caveat:  Cameras are not being built to take advantage of that yet, even if the sensor is capable!  The LCD display requires in-camera brightening to show the shooter what he just shot :), and this brightening is applied to the entire file and the small embedded display jpeg is rendered from that.

some thoughts on ISOless from sensorsgen guy.

.

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---> http://www.flickr.com/photos/95095968@N00/sets/72157626171532197/

I haven't tested it but I'm pretty sure the k3 is isoless from the few shots I have push.
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moving_comfort
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When cameras are built to use it and when Lightroom supports it...
In reply to david tittermary, 4 months ago

david tittermary wrote:

"ISOless" is a mildly interesting concept. Very basically if a sensor has very low read noise at base ISO, and this read noise curve remains flat as you move up in ISO, you could conceivably shoot everything at base-ISO and then just push in post to brighten the image. You would get the same or better* results doing that than shooting at ISO 800, 1600, 6400, whatever.

* 'better' because you'd have more DR to work with if you shot at base-ISO, would be less likely to blow highlights, etc.

Caveat: Cameras are not being built to take advantage of that yet, even if the sensor is capable! The LCD display requires in-camera brightening to show the shooter what he just shot :), and this brightening is applied to the entire file and the small embedded display jpeg is rendered from that.

some thoughts on ISOless from sensorsgen guy.

.

I haven't tested it but I'm pretty sure the k3 is isoless from the few shots I have push.

.

Most folks have a 'why does it even matter' attitude, which is understandable

Consider this advantage:  All images always recorded at base ISO, with your ISO setting in-camera becoming just an Exif metadata setting to tell your software or raw converter how to display it for you.  You would be able to change ISO in post with a new 'ISO' slider, much like you can change white balance now, with no ill-effects on IQ.

.

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