Ken Rockwell: "I just got my Sony A7, and I'm impressed."

Started Dec 12, 2013 | Discussions
frhe
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Ken Rockwell: "I just got my Sony A7, and I'm impressed."
Dec 12, 2013
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sean lancaster
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Re: Ken Rockwell: "I just got my Sony A7, and I'm impressed."
In reply to frhe, Dec 12, 2013

Not much of a review, but his conclusion sums up my sentiments, "For normal people, the Nikon D600, Nikon D610 and Canon 6D are probably better system cameras for about the same price — but bigger and heavier." AF lenses are all that hold me back right now.

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Alohaman
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Re: Ken Rockwell: "I just got my Sony A7, and I'm impressed."
In reply to frhe, Dec 12, 2013

Rockwell lists both bodies with image stabilization>>he's wrong.

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Red5TX
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Re: Ken Rockwell: "I just got my Sony A7, and I'm impressed."
In reply to Alohaman, Dec 12, 2013

Alohaman wrote:

Rockwell lists both bodies with image stabilization>>he's wrong.

Shocker.

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Old Pirate
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Re: Ken Rockwell: "I just got my Sony A7, and I'm impressed."
In reply to Red5TX, Dec 12, 2013

I think he is saying that both camera's have stabilization systems which is true.

Leica has neither IBIS or ILIS.

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bluevellet
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Re: Ken Rockwell: "I just got my Sony A7, and I'm impressed."
In reply to sean lancaster, Dec 12, 2013

sean lancaster wrote:

Not much of a review, but his conclusion sums up my sentiments, "For normal people, the Nikon D600, Nikon D610 and Canon 6D are probably better system cameras for about the same price — but bigger and heavier." AF lenses are all that hold me back right now.

He's dead on.

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proxy
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Re: Ken Rockwell: "I just got my Sony A7, and I'm impressed."
In reply to bluevellet, Dec 12, 2013

Rockwell list A7R as Phase Detection AF in "Compare" section.

A7R uses Contrast Detection AF... seems like he's so excited about the A7 that he forgot to check it.:-)

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Zenjitsuman
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Re: Ken Rockwell: "I just got my Sony A7, and I'm impressed."
In reply to proxy, Dec 13, 2013

Sure Rockwell is right A7 is no system camera, its got little Sony support, and no third party except Zeiss support so far.

Even he says Ultra wide Leicas don't work well.  He list 35mm as his widest Leica lens and a 50 as his other lens.

This is my problem, I was hoping for better results with rangefinder lenses, maybe Sony will come up with a model like the 5n which was reaction to the Nex 7 not working well with rangefinder glass.

Sony will likely come out with something next fall. Until then I have several systems to use and my Leica stuff can be used on my M4p and new Voigtlander meter II.

Oh how I wish the M stuff could all be use digitally.  I can't believe Rockwell thought like I did that in ten years time a m mount digital would be made FF at a reasonable price.

Maybe if Leica went out of business.

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Hawaii-geek
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He was also the one that did not like the RX1? Re: Ken Rockwell:
In reply to frhe, Dec 13, 2013

He was also the one that did not like the RX1?

Re: Ken Rockwell:

Just curious.

HG

frhe wrote:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/sony/a7.htm

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nzmacro
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Without even looking at the link
In reply to frhe, Dec 13, 2013

Let me guess. "Click here to buy links" That would be typical of Rocky and click here to support my family I better go take a look anyway, he is good for a smile.

Danny.

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Klipsen
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... or even
In reply to nzmacro, Dec 13, 2013

nzmacro wrote:

Let me guess. "Click here to buy links" That would be typical of Rocky and click here to support my family I better go take a look anyway, he is good for a smile.

Keeping in mind his pro-Nikon, anti-Sony attitude, he's even more likely to say: "Click here to buy this alternative product from Nikon ... etc.".

I don't think I ever saw him recommend a Sony product, no matter how good he says he thinks it is. There's always an alternative from Nikon that will turn out to be "better in the end".

That way he appears to not be anti-Sony, but simply have his readers' best interest in mind.

"Very impressive, but not quite there. Get this Nikon instead", is his usual style.

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GXRuser
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Re: Ken Rockwell: "I just got my Sony A7, and I'm impressed."
In reply to Zenjitsuman, Dec 13, 2013

Zenjitsuman wrote:

Sure Rockwell is right A7 is no system camera, its got little Sony support, and no third party except Zeiss support so far.

Even he says Ultra wide Leicas don't work well. He list 35mm as his widest Leica lens and a 50 as his other lens.

This is my problem, I was hoping for better results with rangefinder lenses, maybe Sony will come up with a model like the 5n which was reaction to the Nex 7 not working well with rangefinder glass.

Sony will likely come out with something next fall. Until then I have several systems to use and my Leica stuff can be used on my M4p and new Voigtlander meter II.

Oh how I wish the M stuff could all be use digitally. I can't believe Rockwell thought like I did that in ten years time a m mount digital would be made FF at a reasonable price.

Maybe if Leica went out of business.

We all need to accept that the NEX and A7 work very well with rangefinder lenses, just not ultra wide angle (wider than 35mm).

The only three digital cameras that have done well with ultrawide rangefinder lenses are:

Full Frame: Leica M (240) and Leica M9 with in-camera corrections. There have been some issues raised with the Leica M.

The Sony A7 has been reported to have better results with ultrawide lenses than the A7R due to larger pixels.

Near APS-C: Leica M8 series

APS-C: Ricoh GXR with A12 Mount module (Leica M mount).

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le_alain
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Re: Ken Rockwell: "I just got my Sony A7, and I'm impressed."
In reply to GXRuser, Dec 13, 2013

GXRuser wrote:

We all need to accept that the NEX and A7 work very well with rangefinder lenses, just not ultra wide angle (wider than 35mm).

28mm 24mm are WA noty UWA

the tri-Elmar seems to be fine, but at what price ...

21mm f1.8 Voigtlander, not to bad, as a retrofocus lense, but not as sharp of the tri-Elmar of course.

http://3d-kraft.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=148:ultra-wide-angle-m-mount-lenses-on-sony-a7r&catid=40:camerasandlenses&Itemid=2

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sean lancaster
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Re: Ken Rockwell: "I just got my Sony A7, and I'm impressed."
In reply to Zenjitsuman, Dec 13, 2013

Zenjitsuman wrote:

This is my problem, I was hoping for better results with rangefinder lenses, maybe Sony will come up with a model like the 5n which was reaction to the Nex 7 not working well with rangefinder glass.

The Sony NEX 5N came out prior to the NEX 7, fwiw. So it wasn't a reaction to any failings of the NEX 7.

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Michael Everett
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Re: Ken Rockwell: "I just got my Sony A7, and I'm impressed."
In reply to Zenjitsuman, Dec 13, 2013

Zenjitsuman wrote:


This is my problem, I was hoping for better results with rangefinder lenses, maybe Sony will come up with a model like the 5n which was reaction to the Nex 7 not working well with rangefinder glass.

I believe the 5n was out well before the 7.

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Sonyshine
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Re: Ken Rockwell: "I just got my Sony A7, and I'm impressed."
In reply to Michael Everett, Dec 13, 2013

I'm not sure Sony gives  a hoot about rangefinder glass!

Sony is making cameras for use with its native glass first and foremost.

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sroute
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Re: Ken Rockwell: "I just got my Sony A7, and I'm impressed."
In reply to Zenjitsuman, Dec 13, 2013

Zenjitsuman wrote:

This is my problem, I was hoping for better results with rangefinder lenses, maybe Sony will come up with a model like the 5n which was reaction to the Nex 7 not working well with rangefinder glass.

As others have said, the NEX-5N was out well before the NEX-7.

And the NEX-5N, crop camera and all, wasn't perfect with rangefinder wide angle lenses. The GXR/M - purpose built for M lenses - had more solid performance out to the edges, albeit with an older 12.3MP anti-alias free sensor.

Sony will likely come out with something next fall. Until then I have several systems to use and my Leica stuff can be used on my M4p and new Voigtlander meter II.

You'll be waiting forever for a non-Leica digital solution that works well with ever M / LTM lens known to humankind. Some of the wides don't perform to their utmost on Leica digital cameras! Lenses designed in the film era *do not* always translate to high performance on digital, even if they are priced at a premium.

Oh how I wish the M stuff could all be use digitally.

The M9 and M240 and M Mono await you.

Or, give up. In my view things are only going to get worse on this front. Sony, and all the other makers, are (or will be) producing cameras and lenses to exploit the new digital realities of very dense sensors in very small bodies. They will not compromise those designs to cater to the adapted M lens crowd.

Instead they are going to build out their own ecosystem(s) and at some point there'll be sufficient choice in very high quality lenses that some M lens owners won't care.

This isn't idle speculation on my part, although it is speculation I'll grant you. I came to the conclusion that no company other than Leica is going to cater to these lenses, and even Leica is redesigning some lenses to better perform on digital, so why put faith in a plan that somehow M lenses provide vendor independence or will always deliver high IQ? Neither are true.

I put my money where my mouth is and sold off all of my wide angle M mount lenses. A year ago.

Now in my case I had a number of the most problematic lens design type: symmetrical wide angles, so for me it was an easy conclusion to come to and I must say I've not regretted that decision since, much as I loved most of those lenses on other platforms (including film).

The A7 and A7r, today, are working well with a smaller subset of the M/LTM lens ecosystem. You can either refocus your lens selection around the known-good to known-great lenses, or consider alternatives such as buying native glass (when it is available) or filling missing focal lengths in with adapted SLR lenses.

Hoping for a future non-Leica digital back nirvanna for every M lens ever made... IMO is a waste of time.

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Brian P Smith
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Re: ... or even
In reply to Klipsen, Dec 13, 2013

Klipsen wrote:

nzmacro wrote:

Let me guess. "Click here to buy links" That would be typical of Rocky and click here to support my family I better go take a look anyway, he is good for a smile.

Keeping in mind his pro-Nikon, anti-Sony attitude, he's even more likely to say: "Click here to buy this alternative product from Nikon ... etc.".

I don't think I ever saw him recommend a Sony product, no matter how good he says he thinks it is. There's always an alternative from Nikon that will turn out to be "better in the end".

That way he appears to not be anti-Sony, but simply have his readers' best interest in mind.

"Very impressive, but not quite there. Get this Nikon instead", is his usual style.

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It seems to me (and this is just an opinion) that Ken likes Nikon cameras, because he really likes legacy lenses, and Nikon has a huge legacy lens base with the F-mount lenses. To have current cameras support lenses made in the 1970s, without an adapter, is still a feat to me, especially with a new "top of the line" camera designed specifically to fully support these lenses. I really like mirrorless cameras, but if I grew up on Nikon, and loved legacy lenses, I'd probably be ingrained with Nikon as well.

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(Not the renowned photographer, just a pharmacist that likes to take pictures)

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SQLGuy
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Re: Ken Rockwell: "I just got my Sony A7, and I'm impressed."
In reply to sroute, Dec 13, 2013

I still think that for less than $5000, the A7 and A7R are the best that things are going to get for rangefinder lens users right now.

The one short-term improvement we might see is (depending on what's possible through Sony's SDK) some apps that do Leica-type corrections in camera.

In short, if you can live with correcting in post for vignetting and color cast, then go with whichever of the two cameras requires least correction (and produces least smearing) with the lenses you want to use. If you can't live with that, buy a Leica, sell the RF glass, or wait some more and see if someone else (Ricoh? Fuji?) comes out with something that's a better compromise for you. From what I've seen on the Fuji rumors site, it won't be a short wait.

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A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

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JohnSingkit
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Re: Ken Rockwell: "I just got my Sony A7, and I'm impressed."
In reply to SQLGuy, Dec 13, 2013

SQLGuy wrote:

I still think that for less than $5000, the A7 and A7R are the best that things are going to get for rangefinder lens users right now.

The one short-term improvement we might see is (depending on what's possible through Sony's SDK) some apps that do Leica-type corrections in camera.

In short, if you can live with correcting in post for vignetting and color cast, then go with whichever of the two cameras requires least correction (and produces least smearing) with the lenses you want to use. If you can't live with that, buy a Leica, sell the RF glass, or wait some more and see if someone else (Ricoh? Fuji?) comes out with something that's a better compromise for you. From what I've seen on the Fuji rumors site, it won't be a short wait.

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A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

Luminous Landscape (Reichman) has a suggestion on how to fix the WA issue for Leica WA lenses and, presumably, it applies to other WA (not all) M lenses.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/a7r_m_lens_report.shtml

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