A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?

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arcaswissi99
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A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?
4 months ago

I am wondering if there are built in different EVF´s worldwide. I always read rave reviews about the EVF of A7r. I checked 3 different cams in Austria and none was perfectly usable for manual focusing because the EVF flickered so badly you could´t even see fine edges. Side by side with Oly EM1 which should have the same EVF we tried to focus for example on lens boxes in the store. With the EM1 every letter was clearly visible and could focused within mm, with A7r no chance to even see the small letters.

As I don´t read any negative comments about EVF else where, I am not sure if all 3 cams had subpar EVF. I was told that there is a kind of over sharpening and there might be a firmware update to manage  this.

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Erni

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120 to 35
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Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?
In reply to arcaswissi99, 4 months ago

arcaswissi99 wrote:

I am wondering if there are built in different EVF´s worldwide. I always read rave reviews about the EVF of A7r. I checked 3 different cams in Austria and none was perfectly usable for manual focusing because the EVF flickered so badly you could´t even see fine edges. Side by side with Oly EM1 which should have the same EVF we tried to focus for example on lens boxes in the store. With the EM1 every letter was clearly visible and could focused within mm, with A7r no chance to even see the small letters.

As I don´t read any negative comments about EVF else where, I am not sure if all 3 cams had subpar EVF. I was told that there is a kind of over sharpening and there might be a firmware update to manage this.

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Erni

It was discussed in a recent thread. The EVF in the A7r is high resolution but not high enough to equal a good OVF for manual focusing.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52626390

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stevie wonder
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Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?
In reply to 120 to 35, 4 months ago

my thoughts exactly, its useless.

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shigzeo ?
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Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?
In reply to arcaswissi99, 4 months ago

arcaswissi99 wrote:

I am wondering if there are built in different EVF´s worldwide. I always read rave reviews about the EVF of A7r. I checked 3 different cams in Austria and none was perfectly usable for manual focusing because the EVF flickered so badly you could´t even see fine edges. Side by side with Oly EM1 which should have the same EVF we tried to focus for example on lens boxes in the store. With the EM1 every letter was clearly visible and could focused within mm, with A7r no chance to even see the small letters.

As I don´t read any negative comments about EVF else where, I am not sure if all 3 cams had subpar EVF. I was told that there is a kind of over sharpening and there might be a firmware update to manage this.

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Erni

I've been quite against the a7r EVF since the early days of picking one up. I wrote about it here and in the link in my signature and got flack for it. I don't mind. It is great for my work, but for out and about, it is an 'about' thing to use. It can't hold a candle to the D800's mediocre OVF but is almost comparable to the likes of the D200 OVF, though even there it pales.

It works, but it shows that still EVFs are not where they need to be.

EDIT: changed 'thread' to 'signature' in this post.

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D©P Images
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Re: A7R - I absolutely adore the EVF!
In reply to arcaswissi99, 4 months ago

It is one of the greatest advances made by modern cameras.

😊

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Jabez02
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Re: A7R - I absolutely adore the EVF!
In reply to D©P Images, 4 months ago

Perhaps we should have a poll - just silly fan boys or trolls ?

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arcaswissi99
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Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?
In reply to 120 to 35, 4 months ago

thanks. Didn´t see it.

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Erni

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C.Eaton
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If it's anything like the NEX 6 EVF...
In reply to arcaswissi99, 4 months ago

...then it's perfectly usable.

Haven't looked through an A7/R EVF but the one supplied with the NEX 6 is excellent and I wouldn't believe that Sony would go backwards with their flagship cameras.

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stjarvis
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Re: If it's anything like the NEX 6 EVF...
In reply to C.Eaton, 4 months ago

I have no issues with the FDA-EV1S on my 5R

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quezra
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Re: If it's anything like the NEX 6 EVF...
In reply to stjarvis, 4 months ago

stjarvis wrote:

I have no issues with the FDA-EV1S on my 5R

Nor me There is a culture shock for people coming from OVFs.  Maybe they will never ever like EVFs.  Maybe they will learn to live with it, perhaps recognising that an EVF's shortcomings are technical ones that can be overcome with technology, while the features it provides will never ever be available in OVFs (it's the digital vs film debate all over again).  Maybe they will come to love it for those same reasons.  It's all about expectations...

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cxsparc
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Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?
In reply to arcaswissi99, 4 months ago

I see no big difference between the EVF of the 5N and the A7 except that the EVF of the 5N has a reddish tone compared to the more neutral one of th A7. Unfortunately, for people with glasses, I still cannot see the full width.

Aside from that iboth the old and the new EVF are a great tools for MF and generally, photography. "Useless"? == Troll.

@Arcaswissi: "Flickering"?? This EVF does not flicker at all. Most probably you did not understandhow to use it e.g. pressing C2 for focus magnification known to you?

And if the EM1 had a lens with wider aperture on compared to the A7r, noise levels then vary accordingly.

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arcaswissi99
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not everything got better the last years...
In reply to quezra, 4 months ago

I believe I bought my first camera about 37 years ago thus you can see there are younger photographers out there.  I won´t bash the EVF of the Sony somehow or other but I wonder if I am asking too much or if there is any problem with it. For all younger photographers have a look through a viewfinder of an old Olympus OM1 - probably about 30 years old - and tell me where there are 30 years of development and improvements with new OVF´s or EVF´s besides the fact you can see erroneous exposure.

If you are interested have a look into my flickr account with some A7R photos. I like the output but there is much room for improvements.

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Erni

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shigzeo ?
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Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?
In reply to cxsparc, 4 months ago

cxsparc wrote:

I see no big difference between the EVF of the 5N and the A7 except that the EVF of the 5N has a reddish tone compared to the more neutral one of th A7. Unfortunately, for people with glasses, I still cannot see the full width.

Aside from that iboth the old and the new EVF are a great tools for MF and generally, photography. "Useless"? == Troll.

@Arcaswissi: "Flickering"?? This EVF does not flicker at all. Most probably you did not understandhow to use it e.g. pressing C2 for focus magnification known to you?

And if the EM1 had a lens with wider aperture on compared to the A7r, noise levels then vary accordingly.

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Most viewfinders aren't fully visible with glasses on. Even the small one on the X-Pro 1 isn't fully visible. Funnily enough, I find the X-Pro 1's EVF a bit easier to focus for static, well-lit situations simply because its line height is shorter and therefore, individual pixels are harder to make out, making it look more natural. It is way too small and choppy though.

The EVF is an amazing tool. It just isn't up to snuff for the instant, super-speed folk that are used to (and rightly so) and demand no lag or absolute resolution. If an EVF could be made to act exactly like an OVF: no exposure compensation (even when off, the OVF normalises its output), much higher dynamic range, at least five times the resolution, and no lag- then it would be fully workable. It's not just older photographers. Some young photographers who are coming from good OVF cameras have a hard time.

I think, though, that as more and more people come from cheap digital cameras, even EVFs with all the above problems, will seem great. And they are. They just aren't when compared to good or even half-decent OVFs.

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Annex
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Re: not everything got better the last years...
In reply to arcaswissi99, 4 months ago

arcaswissi99 wrote:

I believe I bought my first camera about 37 years ago thus you can see there are younger photographers out there. I won´t bash the EVF of the Sony somehow or other but I wonder if I am asking too much or if there is any problem with it. For all younger photographers have a look through a viewfinder of an old Olympus OM1 - probably about 30 years old - and tell me where there are 30 years of development and improvements with new OVF´s or EVF´s besides the fact you can see erroneous exposure.

If you are interested have a look into my flickr account with some A7R photos. I like the output but there is much room for improvements.

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Erni

The output has little/nothing to do with the EVF though (unless you are saying it's preventing you from composing, exposing and focussing?).

The thing with EVFs compared to OVFs is clearly a matter of culture shock. OVFs are beautiful, definitely agree. Gorgeous to look through and let you frame/focus etc well manually with no aids.

However the positives of an EVF are not in these areas, a screen will never beat reality (at least not in my lifetime), however it is infinitely more flexible and has vastly more options. From my experience, many OVF users only focus on the initial impression of the VF not on how it can change the way you shoot.

There is simply no way (Fuji's hybrid in part excepted), to get focus peaking, magnification, actual sensor exposure, zebra etc etc from an OVF directly. The advantage in the EVF is in these assistance devices, it's not in the beauty of the display.

Personally I've found shooting much more effective and less hassle with an EVF (once you know how to use it), however aesthetically yes, less pleasing in the moment of the shot.

Horses for courses. For me, the end shot matters more than the process and an EVF gives me more keepers. Perhaps its different for you, although I'd expect its more likely that you are judging your EVF based on an OVF criteria set.

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blue_skies
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Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?
In reply to arcaswissi99, 4 months ago

arcaswissi99 wrote:

I am wondering if there are built in different EVF´s worldwide. I always read rave reviews about the EVF of A7r. I checked 3 different cams in Austria and none was perfectly usable for manual focusing because the EVF flickered so badly you could´t even see fine edges. Side by side with Oly EM1 which should have the same EVF we tried to focus for example on lens boxes in the store. With the EM1 every letter was clearly visible and could focused within mm, with A7r no chance to even see the small letters.

As I don´t read any negative comments about EVF else where, I am not sure if all 3 cams had subpar EVF. I was told that there is a kind of over sharpening and there might be a firmware update to manage this.

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Erni

Could you have been looking at focus peaking or zebra patterns? Or perhaps a 60hz (US) versus 50hz (EU) unit. What about aperture stop and 'display effects on' settings?

The A7/r EVF does not flicker - it turns grainy under low light.

The EM1 and A7 have, for all practical purposes, near identical EVFs, just different aspect ratios.

If one flickers and the other one does not, something is amiss.

As to precise fine focus, zoom assist should make this a breeze.

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Cheers,
Henry

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TrojMacReady
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Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?
In reply to arcaswissi99, 4 months ago

Flickering EVF in a store, sounds like the typical store lights (frequency) interfering with refresh rate of the EVF.

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xpistos
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Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?
In reply to TrojMacReady, 4 months ago

I am perfectly happy with the A7 EVF.

I like EVFs for manual focusing. There is nothing better than using the magnification tool to see what it is you are focusing on!

Having said that, on my Nikon D700, I rely on the green dot! And that usually does not disappoint.

christos

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uhoh07
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Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?
In reply to stevie wonder, 4 months ago

stevie wonder wrote:

my thoughts exactly, its useless.

A piano is also useless if you don't how to play it.

CV 50/1.1

No OVF prism is close, only RF can compare for accurate MF to A7r EVF.

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arcaswissi99
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Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?
In reply to TrojMacReady, 4 months ago

yes that could indeed be the case. I am not sure if this occurred outside because I used there the LCD most of the time.

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Erni

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KwhyChang
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Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?
In reply to arcaswissi99, 4 months ago

I know of only one cam with a better EVF, the E-M1. Can you think of another?

I've used it over and over for manual focus shots and it works great for me.

Sorry it doesn't meet your needs.

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Dave

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