A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?

Started Dec 12, 2013 | Discussions
Shop cameras & lenses ▾
arcaswissi99
arcaswissi99 Forum Member • Posts: 99
A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?
6

I am wondering if there are built in different EVF´s worldwide. I always read rave reviews about the EVF of A7r. I checked 3 different cams in Austria and none was perfectly usable for manual focusing because the EVF flickered so badly you could´t even see fine edges. Side by side with Oly EM1 which should have the same EVF we tried to focus for example on lens boxes in the store. With the EM1 every letter was clearly visible and could focused within mm, with A7r no chance to even see the small letters.

As I don´t read any negative comments about EVF else where, I am not sure if all 3 cams had subpar EVF. I was told that there is a kind of over sharpening and there might be a firmware update to manage  this.

-- hide signature --

Erni

 arcaswissi99's gear list:arcaswissi99's gear list
Sigma DP1 Merrill Sigma DP2 Merrill Sigma DP3 Merrill Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Tamron 15-30mm F2.8
Olympus E-M1 Sony Alpha 7R
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
120 to 35 Senior Member • Posts: 1,248
Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?

arcaswissi99 wrote:

I am wondering if there are built in different EVF´s worldwide. I always read rave reviews about the EVF of A7r. I checked 3 different cams in Austria and none was perfectly usable for manual focusing because the EVF flickered so badly you could´t even see fine edges. Side by side with Oly EM1 which should have the same EVF we tried to focus for example on lens boxes in the store. With the EM1 every letter was clearly visible and could focused within mm, with A7r no chance to even see the small letters.

As I don´t read any negative comments about EVF else where, I am not sure if all 3 cams had subpar EVF. I was told that there is a kind of over sharpening and there might be a firmware update to manage this.

-- hide signature --

Erni

It was discussed in a recent thread. The EVF in the A7r is high resolution but not high enough to equal a good OVF for manual focusing.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52626390

stevie wonder Regular Member • Posts: 489
Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?

my thoughts exactly, its useless.

 stevie wonder's gear list:stevie wonder's gear list
Canon EOS-1D X Canon EF 14mm f/2.8L II USM Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM Canon EF 8-15mm f/4L Fisheye USM Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM +1 more
shigzeo
shigzeo Senior Member • Posts: 1,732
Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?

arcaswissi99 wrote:

I am wondering if there are built in different EVF´s worldwide. I always read rave reviews about the EVF of A7r. I checked 3 different cams in Austria and none was perfectly usable for manual focusing because the EVF flickered so badly you could´t even see fine edges. Side by side with Oly EM1 which should have the same EVF we tried to focus for example on lens boxes in the store. With the EM1 every letter was clearly visible and could focused within mm, with A7r no chance to even see the small letters.

As I don´t read any negative comments about EVF else where, I am not sure if all 3 cams had subpar EVF. I was told that there is a kind of over sharpening and there might be a firmware update to manage this.

-- hide signature --

Erni

I've been quite against the a7r EVF since the early days of picking one up. I wrote about it here and in the link in my signature and got flack for it. I don't mind. It is great for my work, but for out and about, it is an 'about' thing to use. It can't hold a candle to the D800's mediocre OVF but is almost comparable to the likes of the D200 OVF, though even there it pales.

It works, but it shows that still EVFs are not where they need to be.

EDIT: changed 'thread' to 'signature' in this post.

 shigzeo's gear list:shigzeo's gear list
Nikon D200 Fujifilm X-Pro1 Nikon D800 Leica M Typ 240 Sony Alpha 7R +9 more
D©P Images Regular Member • Posts: 256
Re: A7R - I absolutely adore the EVF!
5

It is one of the greatest advances made by modern cameras.

­čśŐ

Jabez02 Contributing Member • Posts: 551
Re: A7R - I absolutely adore the EVF!

Perhaps we should have a poll - just silly fan boys or trolls ?

 Jabez02's gear list:Jabez02's gear list
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 Nikon D700 Sony Alpha DSLR-A850 Sony SLT-A77 Sony Alpha 7R +34 more
arcaswissi99
arcaswissi99 OP Forum Member • Posts: 99
Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?

thanks. Didn´t see it.

-- hide signature --

Erni

 arcaswissi99's gear list:arcaswissi99's gear list
Sigma DP1 Merrill Sigma DP2 Merrill Sigma DP3 Merrill Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Tamron 15-30mm F2.8
C.Eaton Contributing Member • Posts: 894
If it's anything like the NEX 6 EVF...
1

...then it's perfectly usable.

Haven't looked through an A7/R EVF but the one supplied with the NEX 6 is excellent and I wouldn't believe that Sony would go backwards with their flagship cameras.

stjarvis Regular Member • Posts: 176
Re: If it's anything like the NEX 6 EVF...
3

I have no issues with the FDA-EV1S on my 5R

 stjarvis's gear list:stjarvis's gear list
NEX5R Sony Alpha 7R II Sony E 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 OSS Sony FE 35mm F2.8 Samyang 12mm 1:2.0 NCS CS +7 more
quezra Senior Member • Posts: 3,915
Re: If it's anything like the NEX 6 EVF...
1

stjarvis wrote:

I have no issues with the FDA-EV1S on my 5R

Nor me There is a culture shock for people coming from OVFs.  Maybe they will never ever like EVFs.  Maybe they will learn to live with it, perhaps recognising that an EVF's shortcomings are technical ones that can be overcome with technology, while the features it provides will never ever be available in OVFs (it's the digital vs film debate all over again).  Maybe they will come to love it for those same reasons.  It's all about expectations...

 quezra's gear list:quezra's gear list
Sony Alpha 7 Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Sony Vario-Tessar T* FE 16-35mm F4 ZA OSS Sony Alpha NEX-5N Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH3 +10 more
cxsparc
cxsparc Senior Member • Posts: 2,664
Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?

I see no big difference between the EVF of the 5N and the A7 except that the EVF of the 5N has a reddish tone compared to the more neutral one of th A7. Unfortunately, for people with glasses, I still cannot see the full width.

Aside from that iboth the old and the new EVF are a great tools for MF and generally, photography. "Useless"? == Troll.

@Arcaswissi: "Flickering"?? This EVF does not flicker at all. Most probably you did not understandhow to use it e.g. pressing C2 for focus magnification known to you?

And if the EM1 had a lens with wider aperture on compared to the A7r, noise levels then vary accordingly.

-- hide signature --
 cxsparc's gear list:cxsparc's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-5N Sony a6000 Sony E 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 OSS Sony E 50mm F1.8 OSS Sony E 10-18mm F4 OSS +3 more
arcaswissi99
arcaswissi99 OP Forum Member • Posts: 99
not everything got better the last years...
1

I believe I bought my first camera about 37 years ago thus you can see there are younger photographers out there.  I won´t bash the EVF of the Sony somehow or other but I wonder if I am asking too much or if there is any problem with it. For all younger photographers have a look through a viewfinder of an old Olympus OM1 - probably about 30 years old - and tell me where there are 30 years of development and improvements with new OVF´s or EVF´s besides the fact you can see erroneous exposure.

If you are interested have a look into my flickr account with some A7R photos. I like the output but there is much room for improvements.

-- hide signature --

Erni

 arcaswissi99's gear list:arcaswissi99's gear list
Sigma DP1 Merrill Sigma DP2 Merrill Sigma DP3 Merrill Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Tamron 15-30mm F2.8
shigzeo
shigzeo Senior Member • Posts: 1,732
Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?
2

cxsparc wrote:

I see no big difference between the EVF of the 5N and the A7 except that the EVF of the 5N has a reddish tone compared to the more neutral one of th A7. Unfortunately, for people with glasses, I still cannot see the full width.

Aside from that iboth the old and the new EVF are a great tools for MF and generally, photography. "Useless"? == Troll.

@Arcaswissi: "Flickering"?? This EVF does not flicker at all. Most probably you did not understandhow to use it e.g. pressing C2 for focus magnification known to you?

And if the EM1 had a lens with wider aperture on compared to the A7r, noise levels then vary accordingly.

-- hide signature --

Most viewfinders aren't fully visible with glasses on. Even the small one on the X-Pro 1 isn't fully visible. Funnily enough, I find the X-Pro 1's EVF a bit easier to focus for static, well-lit situations simply because its line height is shorter and therefore, individual pixels are harder to make out, making it look more natural. It is way too small and choppy though.

The EVF is an amazing tool. It just isn't up to snuff for the instant, super-speed folk that are used to (and rightly so) and demand no lag or absolute resolution. If an EVF could be made to act exactly like an OVF: no exposure compensation (even when off, the OVF normalises its output), much higher dynamic range, at least five times the resolution, and no lag- then it would be fully workable. It's not just older photographers. Some young photographers who are coming from good OVF cameras have a hard time.

I think, though, that as more and more people come from cheap digital cameras, even EVFs with all the above problems, will seem great. And they are. They just aren't when compared to good or even half-decent OVFs.

 shigzeo's gear list:shigzeo's gear list
Nikon D200 Fujifilm X-Pro1 Nikon D800 Leica M Typ 240 Sony Alpha 7R +9 more
Annex Regular Member • Posts: 194
Re: not everything got better the last years...

arcaswissi99 wrote:

I believe I bought my first camera about 37 years ago thus you can see there are younger photographers out there. I won´t bash the EVF of the Sony somehow or other but I wonder if I am asking too much or if there is any problem with it. For all younger photographers have a look through a viewfinder of an old Olympus OM1 - probably about 30 years old - and tell me where there are 30 years of development and improvements with new OVF´s or EVF´s besides the fact you can see erroneous exposure.

If you are interested have a look into my flickr account with some A7R photos. I like the output but there is much room for improvements.

-- hide signature --

Erni

The output has little/nothing to do with the EVF though (unless you are saying it's preventing you from composing, exposing and focussing?).

The thing with EVFs compared to OVFs is clearly a matter of culture shock. OVFs are beautiful, definitely agree. Gorgeous to look through and let you frame/focus etc well manually with no aids.

However the positives of an EVF are not in these areas, a screen will never beat reality (at least not in my lifetime), however it is infinitely more flexible and has vastly more options. From my experience, many OVF users only focus on the initial impression of the VF not on how it can change the way you shoot.

There is simply no way (Fuji's hybrid in part excepted), to get focus peaking, magnification, actual sensor exposure, zebra etc etc from an OVF directly. The advantage in the EVF is in these assistance devices, it's not in the beauty of the display.

Personally I've found shooting much more effective and less hassle with an EVF (once you know how to use it), however aesthetically yes, less pleasing in the moment of the shot.

Horses for courses. For me, the end shot matters more than the process and an EVF gives me more keepers. Perhaps its different for you, although I'd expect its more likely that you are judging your EVF based on an OVF criteria set.

 Annex's gear list:Annex's gear list
Fujifilm X100S Sony Alpha 7R +1 more
blue_skies
blue_skies Veteran Member • Posts: 9,664
Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?
1

arcaswissi99 wrote:

I am wondering if there are built in different EVF´s worldwide. I always read rave reviews about the EVF of A7r. I checked 3 different cams in Austria and none was perfectly usable for manual focusing because the EVF flickered so badly you could´t even see fine edges. Side by side with Oly EM1 which should have the same EVF we tried to focus for example on lens boxes in the store. With the EM1 every letter was clearly visible and could focused within mm, with A7r no chance to even see the small letters.

As I don´t read any negative comments about EVF else where, I am not sure if all 3 cams had subpar EVF. I was told that there is a kind of over sharpening and there might be a firmware update to manage this.

-- hide signature --

Erni

Could you have been looking at focus peaking or zebra patterns? Or perhaps a 60hz (US) versus 50hz (EU) unit. What about aperture stop and 'display effects on' settings?

The A7/r EVF does not flicker - it turns grainy under low light.

The EM1 and A7 have, for all practical purposes, near identical EVFs, just different aspect ratios.

If one flickers and the other one does not, something is amiss.

As to precise fine focus, zoom assist should make this a breeze.

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
Henry

 blue_skies's gear list:blue_skies's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-6 Sony a6000 Sony a5100 Sony Alpha 7 II Sony DT 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 SAM +33 more
TrojMacReady
TrojMacReady Veteran Member • Posts: 8,683
Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?
3

Flickering EVF in a store, sounds like the typical store lights (frequency) interfering with refresh rate of the EVF.

xpistos
xpistos Regular Member • Posts: 261
Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?
1

I am perfectly happy with the A7 EVF.

I like EVFs for manual focusing. There is nothing better than using the magnification tool to see what it is you are focusing on!

Having said that, on my Nikon D700, I rely on the green dot! And that usually does not disappoint.

christos

uhoh07 Senior Member • Posts: 1,564
Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?
3

stevie wonder wrote:

my thoughts exactly, its useless.

A piano is also useless if you don't how to play it.

CV 50/1.1

No OVF prism is close, only RF can compare for accurate MF to A7r EVF.

 uhoh07's gear list:uhoh07's gear list
Leica M9 Sony Alpha 7R
arcaswissi99
arcaswissi99 OP Forum Member • Posts: 99
Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?

yes that could indeed be the case. I am not sure if this occurred outside because I used there the LCD most of the time.

-- hide signature --

Erni

 arcaswissi99's gear list:arcaswissi99's gear list
Sigma DP1 Merrill Sigma DP2 Merrill Sigma DP3 Merrill Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Tamron 15-30mm F2.8
KwhyChang Veteran Member • Posts: 3,527
Re: A7R - Am I the only who is by no means satisfied with the EVF?

I know of only one cam with a better EVF, the E-M1. Can you think of another?

I've used it over and over for manual focus shots and it works great for me.

Sorry it doesn't meet your needs.

-- hide signature --

Dave

 KwhyChang's gear list:KwhyChang's gear list
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 III Nikon Coolpix P900 Sony Alpha 7
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads