To those who claim the E-M1's C-AF ain't fast enough.

Started Dec 12, 2013 | Discussions
DonParrot
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To those who claim the E-M1's C-AF ain't fast enough.
Dec 12, 2013

Well, this is a series of about 20 shots. Shot with the m.Zuiko 75-300 in C-AF, 1/1250, release prio off, AF lock standard, vivid. It's a complete series with not a single pic taken out.

None of the pics was cropped and although not every picture is tack sharp I think that thre series demonstrates that the C-AF works dines along as you succeed in keeping the AF field on your subject. From experiences made so far I'd say the the E-M1's C-AF would be good eneogh to outperform E-30 and E-5 - if it only had the dynamic AF (the diamond) of these cameras or the c-AF + tracking would work as it did on the E-M5 with firmware 1.2. 
As it is, keeping the AF field on the subject to let the C-AF do its work is the main challenge. But if you succeed in doing so, the C-AF works just fine.

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Fraenzken
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Re: To those who claim the E-M1's C-AF ain't fast enough.
In reply to DonParrot, Dec 12, 2013

Nicht schlecht, Don

How's your 50-200 SWD in comparison?

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Advent1sam
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Re: To those who claim the E-M1's C-AF ain't fast enough.
In reply to Fraenzken, Dec 12, 2013

Nice, did you shoot jpg?

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Steve_
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one scenario doesn't prove much
In reply to DonParrot, Dec 12, 2013

As I recall, you've been running the one (fairly unrealistic) scenario into the ground since the introduction of the E-M5. Which if you've shot in C-AF and got the shot, you know is in spite of the C-AF capability of the camera rather than because of it.

Sure, if you have a dog run directly at you so you can keep the focus target in place at all times even totally brainless and rather slow C-AF can do an adequate job. But to extend this success to some sort of proof of an significant C-AF capability is tiresome at best and a disservice to potential adopters at worst.

If your intent is to show the E-M1's improvement over the E-M5, it would be best to pick a scenario it fails under (nearly all others). Use a subject that actually moves in the frame. Hopefully the E-M1 is better, but the E-M5 (which you lauded in similar fashion) is useless. I shot action for years with match-needle full-manual SLRs, and to be honest the E-M5 is no advance over those cameras when the subject moves in the frame.

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DonParrot
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Re: To those who claim the E-M1's C-AF ain't fast enough.
In reply to Fraenzken, Dec 12, 2013

Fraenzken wrote:

Nicht schlecht, Don

How's your 50-200 SWD in comparison?

I can't make a definite assesment regarding this point. If you shoot just one runninmg dog, you apparenntly have to be more precise with the E-M1 than you had to with the E-M5. I'm still on the way to adapting to this new challenge, so, making a fair comparison still is difficult. But I also shot some nice series with the 50-200 SWD.
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/2085436366/albums/first-action-series-e-m1-50-200-swd

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DonParrot
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Re: To those who claim the E-M1's C-AF ain't fast enough.
In reply to Advent1sam, Dec 12, 2013

Advent1sam wrote:

Nice, did you shoot jpg?

Yup - all JPEGs. Just minimised, slightly brightened shadows and miminum sharpened.

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DonParrot
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Re: one scenario doesn't prove much
In reply to Steve_, Dec 12, 2013

Steve_ wrote:

As I recall, you've been running the one (fairly unrealistic) scenario into the ground since the introduction of the E-M5. Which if you've shot in C-AF and got the shot, you know is in spite of the C-AF capability of the camera rather than because of it.

Haha.. Say no more.

Sure, if you have a dog run directly at you so you can keep the focus target in place at all times even totally brainless and rather slow C-AF can do an adequate job. But to extend this success to some sort of proof of an significant C-AF capability is tiresome at best and a disservice to potential adopters at worst.

You don't know nothing about shooting dogs, do you? They aren't moving straight on like cars or the likes, they are bopping up and down all the time and represent - apart from birds of prey - one of the most difficult task for every C-AF system. In addition, I underlined that it's a pity that the cam hasn't got a dynamic AF or a useable tracking. But here, I am not talking about tracking but about the C-AF. And the C-AF works just fine. As it did - on a lower level - in the case of the E-M5. If you aren't able to adapt or meet this challenge, don't blame the tool - blame yourself.

If your intent is to show the E-M1's improvement over the E-M5, it would be best to pick a scenario it fails under (nearly all others). Use a subject that actually moves in the frame. Hopefully the E-M1 is better, but the E-M5 (which you lauded in similar fashion) is useless. I shot action for years with match-needle full-manual SLRs, and to be honest the E-M5 is no advance over those cameras when the subject moves in the frame.

I really don't know what you are talking about. Just learn to use your tools. Or maybe you should purchase a lens that is able to collaborate with the C-AF of the E-M5 - what the Lumix 100-300 most definitely doesn't. This is a well known fact, for heaven's sake!

E-M5:

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Lab D
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Dom't let proof get in the way of an opinion. :)
In reply to Steve_, Dec 12, 2013

Steve_ wrote:

Sure, if you have a dog run directly at you so you can keep the focus target in place at all times even totally brainless and rather slow C-AF can do an adequate job.

CDAF C-AF doesn't know which way a subject is moving.  With most CDAF cameras the focus will shift back and forth until it find the most contrast which causes most pictures in these senarios to be out of focus.  "brainless" C-AF is hit or miss and can't do what Don has presented.

But to extend this success to some sort of proof of an significant C-AF capability is tiresome at best and a disservice to potential adopters at worst.

Don has presented facts an you seem to be in denial.

If your intent is to show the E-M1's improvement over the E-M5, it would be best to pick a scenario it fails under (nearly all others). Use a subject that actually moves in the frame.

OK, let's do that, and let's use an F/1.8 so that the DoF is thinner than an APS camera with an F/2.8 lens.

Now let's see what an F/2.8 zoom does:

Here is a link to another picture of a subject running towards the camera which is very difficult fo rmost CDAF. I am going to upload the whole sequence later today if I can.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52697552

And finally a link to a thread with more fast moving subjects!

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52681894

For anyone concerned about C-AF and tracking moving subjects, the E-M1 does it very well, and please ignore the nay-sayers.

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duartix
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Re: To those who claim the E-M1's C-AF ain't fast enough.
In reply to DonParrot, Dec 12, 2013

Press LIKE if you've zoomed until each image fills up one page, and you spend the last 5m pressing PgUp and PgDown whilst dodging the dog!

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horsth
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Re: handball with the E-M1 as a DSLR substitude
In reply to Steve_, Dec 12, 2013

I don't claim that the E-M1 could replace a high end DSLR completely, but if you know what you do, the results are stunningly.

Regards

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Fleabag
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The small print
In reply to DonParrot, Dec 12, 2013

The fact is that the EM-1 will be fine for some things and not for others. For my type of shooting, with 4/3 lens the EM-1 as a whole is inadequate for C-AF when used with 4/3 lenses. Worse than my E-5.

Just as Olympus will put a * in their autofocus claims, there should be a * in everyone's positive C-AF claim I've posted a laundry list of the reasons in the past, no energy to go through that again. The jury has spoken.

Don, beautiful dog and glad the system works out for you.

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Lab D
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Re: The small print
In reply to Fleabag, Dec 12, 2013

Fleabag wrote:

For my type of shooting, with 4/3 lens the EM-1...

IMHO, that is a handicap.  Olympus did a good job getting the old 4/3 lenses to work well though.  Obviously the native M43 lenses work better.

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Fleabag
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Re: The small print
In reply to Lab D, Dec 12, 2013

But here's the problem. Olympus stated that the E-5 replacement will focus SHG lens's like they deserve to be focused. It's simply not the case, that is unless they don't deserve to be focused!

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DonParrot
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Re: The small print
In reply to Fleabag, Dec 12, 2013

Fleabag wrote:

The fact is that the EM-1 will be fine for some things and not for others. For my type of shooting, with 4/3 lens the EM-1 as a whole is inadequate for C-AF when used with 4/3 lenses. Worse than my E-5.

Just as Olympus will put a * in their autofocus claims, there should be a * in everyone's positive C-AF claim I've posted a laundry list of the reasons in the past, no energy to go through that again. The jury has spoken.

Don, beautiful dog and glad the system works out for you.

Thanks Fleabag!
Did you try to shoot with the FPS rate reduced to four FPS and AF lock set to standard?

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Steve_
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Don't extend isolated cases into a blanket statement
In reply to Lab D, Dec 12, 2013

Don posted a very similar sequence as proof of the E-M5's useful C-AF capability. It was not proof of such, and is not proof of such to substitute a different camera.

I shoot airshows with the E-M5, and it is indeed brainless. Blind luck and/or non-demanding test cases can be construed as some kind of logic, where none exists. As I stated in my original post I hope that the E-M1 is better in this regard, but there's nothing here to substantiate the statements putting it in parity with competent DSLRs.

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Ulfric M Douglas
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Re: To those who claim the E-M1's C-AF ain't fast enough.
In reply to DonParrot, Dec 12, 2013

Very cool Don!

How did you get a walrus to dress up in the ginger suit?

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You're evil Ulfric.

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DonParrot
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Re: To those who claim the E-M1's C-AF ain't fast enough.
In reply to Ulfric M Douglas, Dec 12, 2013

Ulfric M Douglas wrote:

Very cool Don!

How did you get a walrus to dress up in the ginger suit?

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Cheksa wrote:
You're evil Ulfric.

*loool*

They just do it from time to rime. It's their way of partying.

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Lab D
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Not really
In reply to Fleabag, Dec 12, 2013

Fleabag wrote:

But here's the problem. Olympus stated that the E-5 replacement will focus SHG lens's like they deserve to be focused. It's simply not the case, that is unless they don't deserve to be focused!

Honestly not even the E-5 focused like SHG lenses "deserve".   It was well behind Canikon and couldn't focus as fast as the old GH2.  Also, nowhere on the box or in the maunal does it say, "will focus SHG lens's like they deserve to be focused".  That is something potential E-7 buyers most like started spreading.

btw, the E-M1 does focus with SHG lens and does it very well....

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52681894

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DonParrot
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Re: Not really
In reply to Lab D, Dec 12, 2013

Lab D wrote:

Fleabag wrote:

But here's the problem. Olympus stated that the E-5 replacement will focus SHG lens's like they deserve to be focused. It's simply not the case, that is unless they don't deserve to be focused!

Honestly not even the E-5 focused like SHG lenses "deserve". It was well behind Canikon and couldn't focus as fast as the old GH2.

Well, if you are talking S-AF, this may be true. If you are talking C-AF, however, E-3, E-30 and E-5 deliver on a not too bad level if you know what to do. Yes, the sports machines of CaNikon are better, but that doesn't mean that the aforementioned Oly cameras haven't got what it takes to shoot anything you want. Yes, the effort is somewhat bigger but consequently, this also applies to the satisfaction.

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Lab D
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More denial?
In reply to Steve_, Dec 12, 2013

Steve_ wrote:

Don posted a very similar sequence as proof of the E-M5's useful C-AF capability....I shoot airshows with the E-M5, and it is indeed brainless.

This thread is about the E-M1 which has PDAF pixels on the sensor and NOT the E-M5.

there's nothing here to substantiate the statements putting it in parity with competent DSLRs.

More denial?  I have found and posted evidince (see my other posts) that the E-M1 is as good as entry level DSLRs (Now maybe when you say "competent DSLRs" you are talking about those higher end DSLRsand high end lenses).

It does drive me crazy (and maybe Don too) when I go out, shoot sports, and end up with a very high hit rate of very sharp pictures, but then after posting some, having someone claim my camera "can't do that".

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