My E-M1 HDR question: please help if you can

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
RealPancho
Senior MemberPosts: 1,013Gear list
Like?
My E-M1 HDR question: please help if you can
7 months ago

The HDRs I've gotten from my E-M1 are too bright. I thought the principle reason for using this feature was to avoid lost shadow and highlight detail. I've tried but haven't found a way to shift the "midpoint" of the HDR bracketing to a lower exposure. Is it possible to do this?

Furthermore, the camera seems to be outputting both a single jpg and raw version of any HDR photos, with the raw having less room for PP manipulation, and worse blown highlights. I'm scratching my head. In some cases, I seem to able to do better without the HDR, and simply brightening the shadows and darkening the highlights in LR5. But I know this won’t always work, and I’d like to able to shift the HDR bracketing “left” a bit, if you get my meaning.

In the example below, I've posted the straight out of the camera HDR JPG, and processed versions of that same JPG and its corresponding ORF. Next, I have another, non-HDR shot of the same scene, first straight out of the camera (JPG), then as a processed ORF. What seems strange to me is that there are unrecoverable highlights in the HDR ORF that are easily pulled out of the HDR JPG and the non-HDR shot.

Please offer whatever wisdom you may have to share in this regard. Of course, any other comments are welcome as well. Or, uh, at least tolerated.

SOOC HDR JPG

Processed HDR JPG

Processed HDR ORF (lost detail in highlights on wall)

SOOC non-HDR

Processed non-HDR

-- hide signature --

Frank

 RealPancho's gear list:RealPancho's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TS3 Olympus E-620 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 +9 more
Olympus E-M1
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
Florida Nature Photographer
Senior MemberPosts: 3,962Gear list
Like?
Re: My E-M1 HDR question: please help if you can
In reply to RealPancho, 7 months ago

I can help if you are interested in HDR that isn't "in camera" but I didn't want to risk sending your thread in a direction you didn't want it to go.

 Florida Nature Photographer's gear list:Florida Nature Photographer's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 50-200mm 1:2.8-3.5 SWD Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Topaz Adjust +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jkrumm
Veteran MemberPosts: 8,048
Like?
Re: My E-M1 HDR question: please help if you can
In reply to RealPancho, 7 months ago

I'm pretty sure the ORF is not HDR and that's why it has some blown highlights. Notice also that you are shooting at iso 200 vs. 100 with your other ORF, and you had to us 1/500  in the second one to avoid too many blown highlights because iso 100 is the same iso with a more linear tone curve (gives it much higher contrast).

It would be cool if the camera made HDR orfs, some kind of extra-malleable high-bit blend. Looks like your jpeg hdr post-processing came out pretty good.

-- hide signature --

John Krumm
Juneau, AK

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Bob Tullis
Forum ProPosts: 26,020Gear list
Like?
p. 59 in the manual
In reply to RealPancho, 7 months ago

The RAW file is a reference file, the JPG is the result of the HDR exposures blended in-camera.

From p.59 of the manual (EN):

  • In the case of HDR1 and HDR2, the HDR-processed image will be saved as a JPEG file. When the image quality mode is set to [RAW], the image is recorded in RAW+JPEG. The only image recorded in RAW is the image with suitable exposure.
-- hide signature --

...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtullis/
.
"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Chief Dan George, Little Big Man
.

 Bob Tullis's gear list:Bob Tullis's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko ED 75-300mm 1:4.8-6.7 II Rokinon 7.5mm 1:3.5 UMC Fisheye CS Voigtlander Nokton 17.5mm F0.95 Aspherical Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 +18 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
pdelux
Regular MemberPosts: 373Gear list
Like?
Re: My E-M1 HDR question: please help if you can
In reply to RealPancho, 7 months ago

Technically you executed the shots well, personally I dislike all of the processed images as they look somewhat cartoonish, but this is to be expected from some HDR and some scenes.

I do not have any experience with the EM1, but I know that processing externally, different applications will give vastly different results when blending HDR scenes (from ultra realistic, to dreamy fantasy-scapes)

Maybe you need to try a different HDR app?

 pdelux's gear list:pdelux's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-50mm 1:3.5-6.3 EZ +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
GlennAA11
Regular MemberPosts: 166Gear list
Like?
Re: My E-M1 HDR question: please help if you can
In reply to pdelux, 7 months ago

Did you try dialing the exposure compensation down?

 GlennAA11's gear list:GlennAA11's gear list
Nikon D7000 Nikon 1 V1 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Nikon D600 Olympus E-M1 +17 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
RealPancho
Senior MemberPosts: 1,013Gear list
Like?
Re: My E-M1 HDR question: please help if you can
In reply to Florida Nature Photographer, 7 months ago

Florida Nature Photographer wrote:

I can help if you are interested in HDR that isn't "in camera" but I didn't want to risk sending your thread in a direction you didn't want it to go.

No problem. Any assistance is welcome. The thing is that I've only dabbled in HDR, and have always come away dissatisfied. That was why I was enthused with the potential for a simpler, in-camera approach.

-- hide signature --

Frank

 RealPancho's gear list:RealPancho's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TS3 Olympus E-620 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
RealPancho
Senior MemberPosts: 1,013Gear list
Like?
Re: p. 59 in the manual
In reply to Bob Tullis, 7 months ago

Bob Tullis wrote:

The RAW file is a reference file, the JPG is the result of the HDR exposures blended in-camera.

From p.59 of the manual (EN):

  • In the case of HDR1 and HDR2, the HDR-processed image will be saved as a JPEG file. When the image quality mode is set to [RAW], the image is recorded in RAW+JPEG. The only image recorded in RAW is the image with suitable exposure.

Thanks, Bob. You know, I read that at one point and then probably disregarded it because it didn't address what I was looking for. My mistake. And this definitely answers the question regarding the raw file, although I'd take exception to the camera's idea of "suitable" exposure. It's frustrating that the exposure compensation seems to be disabled when in HDR, which is the main thing I was hoping to find a way around.

-- hide signature --

...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtullis/
.
"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Chief Dan George, Little Big Man
.

-- hide signature --

Frank

 RealPancho's gear list:RealPancho's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TS3 Olympus E-620 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
RealPancho
Senior MemberPosts: 1,013Gear list
Like?
Re: My E-M1 HDR question: please help if you can
In reply to pdelux, 7 months ago

pdelux wrote:

Technically you executed the shots well, personally I dislike all of the processed images as they look somewhat cartoonish, but this is to be expected from some HDR and some scenes.

I hear what you're saying, but this was really late in the day, and the scene was pretty warm and vivid.

I do not have any experience with the EM1, but I know that processing externally, different applications will give vastly different results when blending HDR scenes (from ultra realistic, to dreamy fantasy-scapes)

Maybe you need to try a different HDR app?

Yeah, that's what I was hoping to avoid. I've only dabbled in HDR, and haven't been too enamored of the results, nor patient enough to properly master the techniques. I think I'm looking for the lazy man's way out.

-- hide signature --

Frank

 RealPancho's gear list:RealPancho's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TS3 Olympus E-620 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
RealPancho
Senior MemberPosts: 1,013Gear list
Like?
Re: My E-M1 HDR question: please help if you can
In reply to GlennAA11, 7 months ago

GlennAA11 wrote:

Did you try dialing the exposure compensation down?

Yes. It doesn't work in HDR mode.

-- hide signature --

Frank

 RealPancho's gear list:RealPancho's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TS3 Olympus E-620 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Florida Nature Photographer
Senior MemberPosts: 3,962Gear list
Like?
Re: My E-M1 HDR question: please help if you can
In reply to RealPancho, 7 months ago

RealPancho wrote:

Florida Nature Photographer wrote:

I can help if you are interested in HDR that isn't "in camera" but I didn't want to risk sending your thread in a direction you didn't want it to go.

No problem. Any assistance is welcome. The thing is that I've only dabbled in HDR, and have always come away dissatisfied. That was why I was enthused with the potential for a simpler, in-camera approach.

I used the Merge to 32-bit HDR Plugin for Lightroom to produce this. You could also use L/R Enfuse but it doesn't do 32 bit only 16 bit. I took a five bracket exposure, merged them, then adjusted the highlights and shadows etc. in Lightroom to do this. I was quite pleased with the results and I had a lot of flexibility to make it look like I wanted creatively.

All you need to do is highlight the five versions of the photo, right click, merge to HDRSoft, and wait. It produces one .tiff that you edit just as if it had come out of the camera.

You can see below representative samples of what I started with.

 Florida Nature Photographer's gear list:Florida Nature Photographer's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 50-200mm 1:2.8-3.5 SWD Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Topaz Adjust +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
DLBlack
Forum ProPosts: 10,939Gear list
Like?
Re: My E-M1 HDR question: please help if you can
In reply to RealPancho, 7 months ago

Because of no exposure comp in hdr mode I ended up placing the camera in manual mode after a few test shots to figure out the exposure. Then do the in-camera HDR.

 DLBlack's gear list:DLBlack's gear list
Pentax K-7 Pentax K-5 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 +25 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Bob Tullis
Forum ProPosts: 26,020Gear list
Like?
Re: p. 59 in the manual
In reply to RealPancho, 7 months ago

RealPancho wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

The RAW file is a reference file, the JPG is the result of the HDR exposures blended in-camera.

From p.59 of the manual (EN):

  • In the case of HDR1 and HDR2, the HDR-processed image will be saved as a JPEG file. When the image quality mode is set to [RAW], the image is recorded in RAW+JPEG. The only image recorded in RAW is the image with suitable exposure.

Thanks, Bob. You know, I read that at one point and then probably disregarded it because it didn't address what I was looking for. My mistake. And this definitely answers the question regarding the

There's a lot to absorb, and it usually only sticks when putting each of these things into practice. (Been there, forgot that).

raw file, although I'd take exception to the camera's idea of "suitable" exposure. It's frustrating that the exposure compensation seems to be disabled when in HDR, which is the main thing I was hoping to find a way around.

Yea, I know what you mean, Frank. It strikes me as something that wouldn't have been included in a pro model, except for marketing considerations - those that consider in-camera HDR being absent as a deal-breaker. I'm not complaining, but I feel 1/2 of the mode dial settings are there for the same reason.

-- hide signature --

...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtullis/
.
"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Chief Dan George, Little Big Man
.

 Bob Tullis's gear list:Bob Tullis's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko ED 75-300mm 1:4.8-6.7 II Rokinon 7.5mm 1:3.5 UMC Fisheye CS Voigtlander Nokton 17.5mm F0.95 Aspherical Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 +18 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Roxy1945
Senior MemberPosts: 1,099
Like?
Re: My E-M1 HDR question: please help if you can
In reply to RealPancho, 7 months ago

Use Photomatix Pro. Its simple  and does a good job.

-- hide signature --
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Florida Nature Photographer
Senior MemberPosts: 3,962Gear list
Like?
Re: p. 59 in the manual
In reply to Bob Tullis, 7 months ago

Bob Tullis wrote:

I'm not complaining, but I feel 1/2 of the mode dial settings are there for the same reason.

I'm just glad there are enough of them that are throwaways that I can program with 4 MySets. I don't have to overwrite any useful dial positions, as a result.

 Florida Nature Photographer's gear list:Florida Nature Photographer's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 50-200mm 1:2.8-3.5 SWD Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Topaz Adjust +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Bob Tullis
Forum ProPosts: 26,020Gear list
Like?
Re: p. 59 in the manual
In reply to Florida Nature Photographer, 7 months ago

Florida Nature Photographer wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

I'm not complaining, but I feel 1/2 of the mode dial settings are there for the same reason.

I'm just glad there are enough of them that are throwaways that I can program with 4 MySets. I don't have to overwrite any useful dial positions, as a result.

Well a pro camera might have Cust1, Cust2 as mode settings instead of art, scene. . . here everyone can have it their way. Which is why I'm not complaining [g].

-- hide signature --

...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtullis/
.
"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Chief Dan George, Little Big Man
.

 Bob Tullis's gear list:Bob Tullis's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko ED 75-300mm 1:4.8-6.7 II Rokinon 7.5mm 1:3.5 UMC Fisheye CS Voigtlander Nokton 17.5mm F0.95 Aspherical Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 +18 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
bgalb
Senior MemberPosts: 1,257Gear list
Like?
Re: My E-M1 HDR question: please help if you can
In reply to RealPancho, 7 months ago

I'm not sure if HDR mode lets you use spot metering or not. If it does, then you could meter on one of the lighter parts of the scene using AEL and see if that helps balance out the final jpg better. I would try it myself right now, but my camera sits here with the 100-300 lens on it and I am too lazy to go upstairs and change lenses.

I haven't tried in camera HDR yet, but didn't hold out much hope for it based on other comments I have seen on the forum.

 bgalb's gear list:bgalb's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 12-60mm 1:2.8-4.0 SWD Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 50-200mm 1:2.8-3.5 SWD Olympus Zuiko Digital 1.4x Teleconverter EC-14 +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
bgalb
Senior MemberPosts: 1,257Gear list
Like?
Re: My E-M1 HDR question: please help if you can
In reply to bgalb, 7 months ago

Oops!  AEL isn't going to work!

 bgalb's gear list:bgalb's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 12-60mm 1:2.8-4.0 SWD Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 50-200mm 1:2.8-3.5 SWD Olympus Zuiko Digital 1.4x Teleconverter EC-14 +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
RealPancho
Senior MemberPosts: 1,013Gear list
Like?
Re: My E-M1 HDR question: please help if you can
In reply to DLBlack, 7 months ago

DLBlack wrote:

Because of no exposure comp in hdr mode I ended up placing the camera in manual mode after a few test shots to figure out the exposure. Then do the in-camera HDR.

Now, why didn't I think of that? I'll give this a shot tomorrow. It sounds like it might work. Thanks.

-- hide signature --

Frank

 RealPancho's gear list:RealPancho's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TS3 Olympus E-620 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
lnikj
Regular MemberPosts: 188Gear list
Like?
Re: My E-M1 HDR question: please help if you can
In reply to RealPancho, 7 months ago

RealPancho wrote:

Florida Nature Photographer wrote:

I can help if you are interested in HDR that isn't "in camera" but I didn't want to risk sending your thread in a direction you didn't want it to go.

No problem. Any assistance is welcome. The thing is that I've only dabbled in HDR, and have always come away dissatisfied. That was why I was enthused with the potential for a simpler, in-camera approach.

-- hide signature --

Frank

I'm afraid I will go off at a slight tangent ...

At the end of this thread I posted some comparison shots of in camera HDR vs tone mapping & exposure fusion: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3588044?page=2

[I note now from comments above that I too had misunderstood the nature of the 'RAW HDR', but I had posted the out of camera jpegs anyway.]

As I pointed out there I think that in camera HDR is really a step too far at the moment. Computer based algorithms take minutes to align images, deghost, remove noise etc and then generally give you hands on control before the end of the process of where you want to set white and black points, and sometimes mid tones too.

When I took those shots I saw the camera process the images in a few seconds. That's a tiny little camera taking a few seconds vs my quad core taking a few minutes.

Whilst I expect the E-M1 might have made a better fist of things if I had shot on a tripod I still don't think it could ever have matched what could be done on a computer.

[One thing to perhaps note from the comparison shots with regard to your question is that there is not that much difference between the levels of the in camera HDRs and those of Photomatix/Contrast Optimizer & LR/Enfuse when set on their defaults. Marginally brighter I guess but not massively so.]

I'm afraid that you might have to wait a little longer before cameras have the processing power to give you the IQ you want for in camera HDR though I agree that having provided this feature Oly could have made it a little easier to control at the time of shooting.

 lnikj's gear list:lnikj's gear list
Olympus XZ-1 Sigma DP1 Merrill Sigma DP3 Merrill Olympus E-M1
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads