Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
bruxi
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Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?
7 months ago

At my place of work, the IT department purchased a 5D Mark III. I made up a reason to book it and took it home to do test shots vs. my 60D (which I love). I think I had been expecting too much. In almost all scenarios, there was little difference (certainly not $2,000 difference). It was actually a relief. I was convinced that it would be a magical difference, but I did not see it.

If you feel the need to upgrade to FF, make sure you try to test a body (even in a camera store). If you are looking to be blown away, you'll probably be underwhelmed if you are coming from a body like a 60D. Spend your money on lenses - they always make a difference.

One man's opinion after reading way too much hype.

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Calliope
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Re: Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?
In reply to bruxi, 7 months ago

It really depends on what you like to shoot. FF isn't magical but in low light and when you need very shallow dof they are great. I prefer my 7D for 95% of my shooting but the 5DIII definitely has it place.

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Multi-SportsMom
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Re: Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?
In reply to Calliope, 7 months ago

Calliope wrote:

It really depends on what you like to shoot. FF isn't magical but in low light and when you need very shallow dof they are great. I prefer my 7D for 95% of my shooting but the 5DIII definitely has it place.

This is what i was going to say. It really depends on how you use them. I plan to rent a 5 or 6D for BB. To see how they do.

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giraffe
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Re: Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?
In reply to bruxi, 7 months ago

Yes I do. I keep waiting for the 7D replacement (if it ever will be announced) as I want a camera that has significantly better ISO. I have been slowly looking at the 5dM3 but will first test it in the store to see if there is a significant enough difference to my 7D.

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WilbaW
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Re: Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?
In reply to bruxi, 7 months ago

I know what you mean. I got a good 5D for a reasonable price just to play with, but since most of what I do is not about wide angles and shallow DOF or in low light, I've yet to see an appreciable advantage that would make me want to take the 5D instead of the 60D. As much as anything I miss all the modern usability features that make the 5D seem like Granddad's camera in comparison, so I just don't enjoy using it as much. Might be a different story with a Mark II or III with much higher ISO capability.

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Limburger
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Re: Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?
In reply to bruxi, 7 months ago

You need to use a camera where it shines.

Todays crop sensors are of such high IQ (yes even the Canon ones) that FF gets harder to justify.

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Surb
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Re: Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?
In reply to giraffe, 7 months ago

giraffe wrote:

Yes I do. I keep waiting for the 7D replacement (if it ever will be announced) as I want a camera that has significantly better ISO. I have been slowly looking at the 5dM3 but will first test it in the store to see if there is a significant enough difference to my 7D.

If ISO is what your are looking at between 5Diii and 7D, the 5Diii will trump it.  I was shooting my nephews little league baseball game and when the sun came down the 5diii came out even knowing the loss of crop factor.

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bigfatron
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Re: Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?
In reply to WilbaW, 7 months ago

WilbaW wrote:

I know what you mean. I got a good 5D for a reasonable price just to play with, but since most of what I do is not about wide angles and shallow DOF or in low light, I've yet to see an appreciable advantage that would make me want to take the 5D instead of the 60D. As much as anything I miss all the modern usability features that make the 5D seem like Granddad's camera in comparison, so I just don't enjoy using it as much. Might be a different story with a Mark II or III with much higher ISO capability.

As you've alluded to, 5D Mk 1 v 7D isn't a huge gulf. My brother went from 20D to 5D and back to APS-C with a 7D (partly for better action stuff, partly because the further upgrade path for FF was too expensive).  He kept the 5D and still uses it on occasion but mainly only for wide angle as he doesn't own a lens that would be 'ultra-wide' on a crop sensor.

And the 7D was a decent jump in ISO sensitivity, albeit its lagging a bit now (although it is 4 years old after all). I upgraded from a 40D, which I was loathed push past 800 and wouldn't go beyond 1600 except in dire emergency. Whereas I have no issue taking the 7D to 800/1600 and can get  results that are perfectly acceptable with a bit of PP a couple of notches beyond that in the right circumstances.

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Just another Canon shooter
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Re: Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?
In reply to bruxi, 7 months ago

bruxi wrote:

If you feel the need to upgrade to FF, make sure you try to test a body (even in a camera store). If you are looking to be blown away, you'll probably be underwhelmed if you are coming from a body like a 60D. Spend your money on lenses - they always make a difference.

They did not here or here.

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ktownbill
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Re: Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?
In reply to Just another Canon shooter, 7 months ago

Just another Canon shooter wrote:

bruxi wrote:

If you feel the need to upgrade to FF, make sure you try to test a body (even in a camera store). If you are looking to be blown away, you'll probably be underwhelmed if you are coming from a body like a 60D. Spend your money on lenses - they always make a difference.

They did not here or here.

For those that aren't familiar with the lens/camera comparison site just mouse over the image to switch back and forth between the cameras.  You will see an arrow indicating which camera is shown.  Ideally it should have been done with the same lens but in all instances FF trumps Crop. Crop factor is irrelevant to the comparison in this case.

An even better test is to actually make prints from both cameras. Many that have done this cannot see any difference up to 20x24in print size.

Where a FF shines is high ISO and a 60% narrower DoF .   (think outdoor portraiture here)

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Bill

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bruxi
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Re: Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?
In reply to Just another Canon shooter, 7 months ago

bruxi wrote:

If you feel the need to upgrade to FF, make sure you try to test a body (even in a camera store). If you are looking to be blown away, you'll probably be underwhelmed if you are coming from a body like a 60D. Spend your money on lenses - they always make a difference.

They did not here or here.

These comparisons make no sense

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bruxi
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Re: Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?
In reply to ktownbill, 7 months ago

Just another Canon shooter wrote:

bruxi wrote:

If you feel the need to upgrade to FF, make sure you try to test a body (even in a camera store). If you are looking to be blown away, you'll probably be underwhelmed if you are coming from a body like a 60D. Spend your money on lenses - they always make a difference.

They did not here or here.

For those that aren't familiar with the lens/camera comparison site just mouse over the image to switch back and forth between the cameras.  You will see an arrow indicating which camera is shown.  Ideally it should have been done with the same lens but in all instances FF trumps Crop. Crop factor is irrelevant to the comparison in this case.

An even better test is to actually make prints from both cameras. Many that have done this cannot see any difference up to 20x24in print size.

Where a FF shines is high ISO and a 60% narrower DoF .   (think outdoor portraiture here)

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Bill

People should see for themselves. If you learn light and don't need a million technical crutches to capture solid images, you'll be good.

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Just another Canon shooter
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Re: Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?
In reply to ktownbill, 7 months ago

ktownbill wrote:

An even better test is to actually make prints from both cameras. Many that have done this cannot see any difference up to 20x24in print size.

But you can see the difference between a cheap and an L lens (as the OP implies)?

You either do not care about IQ and you do not see a difference between Coca-Cola glass and an L lens, or you do care. If you do, the format is a much more important factor than the lens. There are no some poor lenses that perform poorly on FF, of course, and an excellent lens would beat it on crop. Most of the time however the format is the decisive factor.

You asked for the same lens comparisons. Here are some of them: 35mm, 24mm, 85mm.

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ktownbill
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Re: Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?
In reply to bruxi, 7 months ago

bruxi wrote:

At my place of work, the IT department purchased a 5D Mark III. I made up a reason to book it and took it home to do test shots vs. my 60D (which I love). I think I had been expecting too much. In almost all scenarios, there was little difference (certainly not $2,000 difference). It was actually a relief. I was convinced that it would be a magical difference, but I did not see it.

If you feel the need to upgrade to FF, make sure you try to test a body (even in a camera store). If you are looking to be blown away, you'll probably be underwhelmed if you are coming from a body like a 60D. Spend your money on lenses - they always make a difference.

One man's opinion after reading way too much hype.

The 2 cameras are basically on a level playing field until you shoot a FF in a scenario that the 60D can't keep up.  As I already mentioned that would be high ISO performance and narrow depth of field (DoF).......  Outside of these shooting parameters, again, the 2 cameras will basically be on a level playing field.

The test-charts show you resolving power and even contrast.  You can't see the difference when the same lens is used on both bodies?  The full frame camera will always win with a given lens.

I use a 7D and a 5DM3, each for what they excel at.  Apparently for the type of photography you do the 60D works just fine.  Perhaps if somebody showed you 'properly' where the 5D prevails you would change your mind.  I KNOW you would change your mind.

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Bill

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Suave
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Re: Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?
In reply to bruxi, 7 months ago

Well, let's go a gym, put a couple of kids on a trampoline, dial in something venue-appropriate, I don't know, something like ISO 6400, f/2.8, 1/500, shoot some 3-4 second RAW bursts, and compare the results.

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Where's my new 50, Canon?

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Suave
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Re: Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?
In reply to bruxi, 7 months ago

bruxi wrote:

bruxi wrote:

If you feel the need to upgrade to FF, make sure you try to test a body (even in a camera store). If you are looking to be blown away, you'll probably be underwhelmed if you are coming from a body like a 60D. Spend your money on lenses - they always make a difference.

They did not here or here.

These comparisons make no sense

If you you understand how FOV and DOF work, they kinda do.

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Where's my new 50, Canon?

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bruxi
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Re: Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?
In reply to Suave, 7 months ago

Suave wrote:

bruxi wrote:

bruxi wrote:

If you feel the need to upgrade to FF, make sure you try to test a body (even in a camera store). If you are looking to be blown away, you'll probably be underwhelmed if you are coming from a body like a 60D. Spend your money on lenses - they always make a difference.

They did not here or here.

These comparisons make no sense

If you you understand how FOV and DOF work, they kinda do.

-- hide signature --

Where's my new 50, Canon?

You're comparing three different lenses across two bodies - two variables in each comparison.  That tells you zero about any of the variables.  Compare a prime to a zoom on the same body and get back to me.

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Just another Canon shooter
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Re: Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?
In reply to bruxi, 7 months ago

bruxi wrote:

Suave wrote:

bruxi wrote:

bruxi wrote:

If you feel the need to upgrade to FF, make sure you try to test a body (even in a camera store). If you are looking to be blown away, you'll probably be underwhelmed if you are coming from a body like a 60D. Spend your money on lenses - they always make a difference.

They did not here or here.

These comparisons make no sense

If you you understand how FOV and DOF work, they kinda do.

-- hide signature --

Where's my new 50, Canon?

You're comparing three different lenses across two bodies - two variables in each comparison. That tells you zero about any of the variables. Compare a prime to a zoom on the same body and get back to me.

How would that answer the question of the difference the format makes?

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bruxi
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Re: Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?
In reply to Suave, 7 months ago

Suave wrote:

Well, let's go a gym, put a couple of kids on a trampoline, dial in something venue-appropriate, I don't know, something like ISO 6400, f/2.8, 1/500, shoot some 3-4 second RAW bursts, and compare the results.

-- hide signature --

Where's my new 50, Canon?

The results would be similar.  The big difference being I could buy the trampoline and then fly to Jamaica with it with the money I save.  But in the scenario you suggest I would shoot it completely differently than you would (hint: I wouldn't need to be at ISO 6400).

You should field test them as I did vs. listening to gearheads to exaggerate the differences.  I did and I was surprised.

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bruxi
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Re: Do you have "Upgrade-itis"?
In reply to ktownbill, 7 months ago

ktownbill wrote:

bruxi wrote:

At my place of work, the IT department purchased a 5D Mark III. I made up a reason to book it and took it home to do test shots vs. my 60D (which I love). I think I had been expecting too much. In almost all scenarios, there was little difference (certainly not $2,000 difference). It was actually a relief. I was convinced that it would be a magical difference, but I did not see it.

If you feel the need to upgrade to FF, make sure you try to test a body (even in a camera store). If you are looking to be blown away, you'll probably be underwhelmed if you are coming from a body like a 60D. Spend your money on lenses - they always make a difference.

One man's opinion after reading way too much hype.

The 2 cameras are basically on a level playing field until you shoot a FF in a scenario that the 60D can't keep up. As I already mentioned that would be high ISO performance and narrow depth of field (DoF)....... Outside of these shooting parameters, again, the 2 cameras will basically be on a level playing field.

The test-charts show you resolving power and even contrast. You can't see the difference when the same lens is used on both bodies? The full frame camera will always win with a given lens.

I use a 7D and a 5DM3, each for what they excel at. Apparently for the type of photography you do the 60D works just fine. Perhaps if somebody showed you 'properly' where the 5D prevails you would change your mind. I KNOW you would change your mind.

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Bill

There is too much hype. I shot in a number of real world scenarios expecting the 5D Mark 3 to blow me away - it didn't. I am talking about straight up IQ in a wide range of shooting, including shooting choir members in a church at night. A lot of posters want to talk about less common shooting scenarios I didn't do vs. the very common shooting scenarios I did do.  I also didn't shoot pictures of black lines on white cards in a studio.  Some people like to spend a lot of time looking at those.

Look at the challenge winners. Their images are not the dreaded "low light" and they don't overuse bokeh. They are subject, composition and light.  These are the types of scenarios that I used to test the two cameras against each other.

I have been doing this for 20 years now and I have learned there are 2 types of photographers. There are those who are limited by the specs of the camera to shoot, and there are those that push the equipment well beyond the specs to get shots (with their knowledge of light, technique, even PP). The latter can outshoot the former, even if they have better/new gear. It's just a fact of life.

Anyway, given all the noise on these forums about full frame, I expected the image quality would be incrediblly better and they were not. I think some people are having a hard time with that.

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