which is better for video a77 or 60d?

Started 10 months ago | Questions
rick lubana
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which is better for video a77 or 60d?
10 months ago

guys, please  i need your help. Im confused with choosing between sony a77 n canon 60D.  which is better for filming?

thanks!!

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Canon EOS 60D Sony SLT-A77
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Corkcampbell
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I had the A77, but not the Canon, so I cannot answer about the latter.
In reply to rick lubana, 10 months ago

The dSLT format is better for video, and Canon and Nikon are playing catchup but they have the disadvantage of having to deal with a dated mirrored design. I used both the A65 and A77 for video, but you have to pay attention to which lenses you use and there were some limitations regarding ISO, etc.

However, if you're seriously interested in video, you should consider the GH3, which is a video workhouse with many available lenses optimized for video, or even take a look at the new Sony RX10, which has a weathersealed 24-200 constant 2.8 Zeiss lens. There's lots of information on the GH3 (which I consider the better of the two cameras, although I did just buy the Sony to complement my GH3), but there's not much yet on the RX10 except for the review on Imaging Resource and yesterday's article on Luminous Landscape. It's just getting into people's hands now. Note that the RX10 has a 29 minute recording limit whereas the GH3 can record for hours.

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ronfab1
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Re: I had the A77, but not the Canon, so I cannot answer about the latter.
In reply to Corkcampbell, 10 months ago

I have both the GH3 and the A77 and most definitely the GH3 smokes the A77 for video.  Sharp and detailed and high bit rates possible plus in camera MOV files.  The A77 and the A99 are astonishingly  soft with their video footage, while having 180 degrees opposite performance with still images.  They're just SOFT when you have desired deep depth of field so everything is in focus.  Hopefully the rumored new large DSLR sized A mounts next year step the hell up.

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Corkcampbell
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I would agree with you; I was disappointed.
In reply to ronfab1, 10 months ago

That's why I stopped using the Sonys for video, returned to my GH2 for that use, and bought a GH3, with which I am very pleased. Jury's out on the RX10 as it's too new. I think that the GH3, which also can rival the dSLTs in the stills area with the right lenses, is the only choice for people really interested in video...and it's affordable right now. Someone can start out with the body, get the dekitted Pany 14mm and the Sigma 60mm and have a really good introductory package that will beat anything that Sony has right now, although I do respect and appreciate Sony's efforts in this direction.

Oh, and you're right - going from the .mov codec on the GH3 back to AVCHD as implemented on the RX10 is a real pain. I even started a thread about it on the Digital Video forum.

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thebustos
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Re: which is better for video a77 or 60d?
In reply to rick lubana, 10 months ago

Between the two the A77 is better though it has limitations. When using AF for video the A77 is restricted to being locked at your lens' largest aperture setting between f/3.5-5.6. This means that if you have a lens with a max aperture of f/4 your aperture will be locked at f/4. If you have a lens with a max aperture of f/1.8 the aperture will be locked at f/3.5 as that's the widest aperture it will allow. If using MF then there is no aperture restriction.

ISO is only selectable from 100-1600.

However the A77 does have video AF, focus peaking when shooting manually, allows full manual control, and you can use the viewfinder for framing.
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ArtiTO
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Re: which is better for video a77 or 60d?
In reply to rick lubana, 10 months ago

AF for video is overrated (not to mention limitations, see posts above).
Everyting else you can get with 60d.

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AlphaRichie
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Re: which is better for video a77 or 60d?
In reply to thebustos, 10 months ago

thebustos wrote:

Between the two the A77 is better though it has limitations. When using AF for video the A77 is restricted to being locked at your lens' largest aperture setting between f/3.5-5.6. This means that if you have a lens with a max aperture of f/4 your aperture will be locked at f/4. If you have a lens with a max aperture of f/1.8 the aperture will be locked at f/3.5 as that's the widest aperture it will allow. If using MF then there is no aperture restriction.

ISO is only selectable from 100-1600.

However the A77 does have video AF, focus peaking when shooting manually, allows full manual control, and you can use the viewfinder for framing.
--
Good luck and happy shooting!

Not trying to hijack this thread.

If I am permitted, I have a question relating to the above response.

I am contemplating purchasing the Tamron 18-270 F/3.5-6.3 for video with the A77.

So if on video mode, the aperture will be locked at f/3.5.

Does it mean that if I zoom in at 270mm(f6.3), I will have problem with that lens.

If not, can you explain how it works at that range.

Also, there is much discussion on the problem of the A77 with above iso 800.

Iso 1600 is 1 stop above iso 800 and 3200 stops above.

Can I (or what happens) if I keep the iso at 800 but use exposure compensation to make up for the 1 or 2 stops.

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ronfab1
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Re: which is better for video a77 or 60d?
In reply to AlphaRichie, 10 months ago

What kind of video are you shooting?  Bottom line, yes I think that's correct you can only go to 3.5 at the fast end of a lens.  Should be no limitation with your long end at 5.6……other than Sony has capped the high ISO for video at 1600.  Just as well because noise at 1600 already pretty much sucks.  On top of the soft video.  I'm so ready for a good video rig from Sony with the rumored full frames next year.  HOPEFULLY.  I have built up a really nice set of quality Sony and Minolta lenses.  But the A77 and A99, if you are shooting professionally, you would be much better served to do it with a GH3.

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thebustos
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Re: which is better for video a77 or 60d?
In reply to AlphaRichie, 10 months ago

AlphaRichie wrote:

thebustos wrote:

Between the two the A77 is better though it has limitations. When using AF for video the A77 is restricted to being locked at your lens' largest aperture setting between f/3.5-5.6. This means that if you have a lens with a max aperture of f/4 your aperture will be locked at f/4. If you have a lens with a max aperture of f/1.8 the aperture will be locked at f/3.5 as that's the widest aperture it will allow. If using MF then there is no aperture restriction.

ISO is only selectable from 100-1600.

However the A77 does have video AF, focus peaking when shooting manually, allows full manual control, and you can use the viewfinder for framing.
--
Good luck and happy shooting!

Not trying to hijack this thread.

If I am permitted, I have a question relating to the above response.

I am contemplating purchasing the Tamron 18-270 F/3.5-6.3 for video with the A77.

So if on video mode, the aperture will be locked at f/3.5.

Does it mean that if I zoom in at 270mm(f6.3), I will have problem with that lens.

If not, can you explain how it works at that range.

Also, there is much discussion on the problem of the A77 with above iso 800.

Iso 1600 is 1 stop above iso 800 and 3200 stops above.

Can I (or what happens) if I keep the iso at 800 but use exposure compensation to make up for the 1 or 2 stops.

From what I understand, at apertures smaller than f/5.6 the AF system won't be getting enough light to function correctly, so I would think you would have a problem shooting at f/6.3, but I haven't tried that so I can't be 100%.

I think most people would agree that the A77 is fine up to ISO 800, but after that it gets very debatable. I personally think that 1600-3200 or even 6400 can work with some PP noise reduction depending on your uses. If you're big into pixel peeping than you probably won't be happy. While I do think that pixel peeping can be useful it really depends on the context. But I rarely shoot that high for most of what I do. I think exposure comp can help keep you under ISO 800, but that would probably require some testing.

I think most of the current SLT video limitation might not be present in future A-mount SLTs. I'm basing this mainly on the video features of the A7/r and RX10 which seem to indicate a change in video implementation. I believe the ISO and Aperture restrictions are no long present on these.

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Good luck and happy shooting!

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AlphaRichie
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Re: which is better for video a77 or 60d?
In reply to ronfab1, 10 months ago

ronfab1 wrote:

What kind of video are you shooting? Bottom line, yes I think that's correct you can only go to 3.5 at the fast end of a lens. Should be no limitation with your long end at 5.6……other than Sony has capped the high ISO for video at 1600. Just as well because noise at 1600 already pretty much sucks. On top of the soft video. I'm so ready for a good video rig from Sony with the rumored full frames next year. HOPEFULLY. I have built up a really nice set of quality Sony and Minolta lenses. But the A77 and A99, if you are shooting professionally, you would be much better served to do it with a GH3.

For still shots, I plan to use the Sony 16-105mm. That lens has a noisier AF, so I want to get a quieter lens(tamron 17-270 or Sigma 17-70 f2.8) to use with the A77, to double as a video lens.

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thebustos
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Re: which is better for video a77 or 60d?
In reply to AlphaRichie, 10 months ago

If you get the A77 + 16-50mm kit it's only about $100 more than getting the A77 and 17-70mm separately. You'd also have a constant f/2.8 lens.

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Good luck and happy shooting!

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Chris Malcolm
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Re: which is better for video a77 or 60d?
In reply to thebustos, 10 months ago

Have any of you armchair experts talking sbout the high ISO noise problems actually used the A77 for video? The video resolution is greatly reduced compared to the still photograph resolution. That greatly reduces noise. I recently shot a lot of a77 stills and video in the middle of the night in often badly lit city streets. There's a lot of noise in the stills which I had to do a lot of processing and size reduction to bring down to acceptable levels. But the out-of-camera video in exactly the same lighting had impressively little noise. Having read so often here these kind of comments about really noisy low light A77 video is I was amazed and delighted at how good it was.

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Chris Malcolm

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TrojMacReady
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Re: which is better for video a77 or 60d?
In reply to ArtiTO, 10 months ago

ArtiTO wrote:

AF for video is overrated (not to mention limitations, see posts above).
Everyting else you can get with 60d.

No and no.

You can't get a working viewfinder with the 60D, you're stuck with the LCD.

You can't get 1080P at 60fps with the 60D

And good luck tracking anything that moves a little faster with MF, especially when it's not all staged and/or you don't have/want a big rig to carry along.

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ronfab1
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Re: which is better for video a77 or 60d?
In reply to Chris Malcolm, 10 months ago

Chris Malcolm wrote:

Have any of you armchair experts talking sbout the high ISO noise problems actually used the A77 for video? The video resolution is greatly reduced compared to the still photograph resolution. That greatly reduces noise. I recently shot a lot of a77 stills and video in the middle of the night in often badly lit city streets. There's a lot of noise in the stills which I had to do a lot of processing and size reduction to bring down to acceptable levels. But the out-of-camera video in exactly the same lighting had impressively little noise. Having read so often here these kind of comments about really noisy low light A77 video is I was amazed and delighted at how good it was.

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Chris Malcolm

Yes. Happy for you if you're OK with what you're getting noise wise with available light. I would have to use a nice light on it and stay in close for any event low light work. Noise at 1600 is not pretty. On top of the painfully soft video. Or do you think we are overblowing that shortcoming as well? Definitely not saying I'm an expert but I know my way around video quality from a lot of different rigs over the years.

The kicker for me was seeing an A/B'd comparison shot with an outstanding lens (Zeiss 24-70) on a NEX 5N, straight out of the camera footage vs. the same exact scenes and lens with an A99 no less, and after the guy had done his best sharpening in post. In this link below which has been presented on DPReview multiple times.

Plus what I see with my own eyes comparing remarkably sharp footage from my Panny GH3 vs my A77. I did not want it to be that way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxJg02Kdua0

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Chris Malcolm
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Re: which is better for video a77 or 60d?
In reply to ronfab1, 10 months ago

ronfab1 wrote:

Chris Malcolm wrote:

Have any of you armchair experts talking sbout the high ISO noise problems actually used the A77 for video? The video resolution is greatly reduced compared to the still photograph resolution. That greatly reduces noise. I recently shot a lot of a77 stills and video in the middle of the night in often badly lit city streets. There's a lot of noise in the stills which I had to do a lot of processing and size reduction to bring down to acceptable levels. But the out-of-camera video in exactly the same lighting had impressively little noise. Having read so often here these kind of comments about really noisy low light A77 video is I was amazed and delighted at how good it was.

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Chris Malcolm

Yes. Happy for you if you're OK with what you're getting noise wise with available light. I would have to use a nice light on it and stay in close for any event low light work. Noise at 1600 is not pretty.

This is what puzzles me. I went back to look at my night video, shot by the available light of the street lights. I see no noise. On the 24MP stills I see a lot of noise. But when I use the standard in-camera noise reduction and downsize them to the much lower video resolution I see no noise. So seeing no noise in the video seems quite natural and expected. So I don't understand where these low light bad video noise comments are coming from. Especially since I was also shooting in heavily gusting wind and rain with a rain spattered lens which certainly did nothing to improve image quality.

On top of the painfully soft video. Or do you think we are overblowing that shortcoming as well?

I'm sure GH3 video is better. But I don't find my A77 night streets video to be horribly bad. I see no noise, and the image quality and sharpness is better than I get from my UK cable TV (not HD by the way). I'm not saying it's superlative or the best. It may even be the worst APS-C sensor video in any current camera. I just don't see why it's criticised in such severe terms. I'd say it was good, and anything clearly better I'd say was excellent.

Definitely not saying I'm an expert but I know my way around video quality from a lot of different rigs over the years.

The kicker for me was seeing an A/B'd comparison shot with an outstanding lens (Zeiss 24-70) on a NEX 5N, straight out of the camera footage vs. the same exact scenes and lens with an A99 no less, and after the guy had done his best sharpening in post. In this link below which has been presented on DPReview multiple times.

The A99 definitely looks inferior there. What puzzles me is that it also looks inferior to the out-of-camera shots I took with a Sony 70-400G at 400mm with my A77 and a borrowed A99. It takes a lot more than one poorly documented experiment to convince me of something.

Plus what I see with my own eyes comparing remarkably sharp footage from my Panny GH3 vs my A77. I did not want it to be that way.

I'm sure the GH3 is better. It seems to me however that there's a tendency in discussions here that when a better camera is found that the other camera suddenly becomes useless, painfully soft, disgustingly noisy, etc.. It's as though not being the best was an intolerable humiliation.

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Chris Malcolm

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ronfab1
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Re: which is better for video a77 or 60d?
In reply to Chris Malcolm, 10 months ago

Chris, what ISO were you using….. I don't think you ever say? Hey I love my A77. It takes amazingly nice high resolution photographs. In fact I was pretty excited about setting it up to use with a monopod and proper audio mixed into it to use for a 2nd rig with the GH3, as I expected to get a similar sharpness and quality with video. In I fact spent over $500 toward that including a lupe for taking the image off the excellent LCD on the back. The Sony's LCD smokes the LCD or OLED (not sure) on the back of the GH3, which also does NOT have peaking. This was all in the past month. Then I read how I can't go any faster that F/3.5 with any of my nice lenses which bites and means higher ISO (1600 max limited I learned as well), I don't need to have video auto focus work well with with faster apertures…... as manual focus with the nice peaking is great and would be fine.

But as I was seeing some of these shortcomings first hand now and reading about them while spending the money, I also started to read on the DV Info Net forum about just how soft the imaging was in video mode, totally unlike the sharpness for stills on the A99, a camera many people wanted to love for video. And I'm shooting some more test footage and seeing just that on the A77. It makes no sense at all coming from Sony with their high end video equipment background.

And then that NEX 5N comparison vs the A99 with the latter's footage being worked on in post and still not competing, just brought the point home hard. I think the test was pretty well done, not sure why you would find it lacking.

Again just depends what you are going to need the footage for. Not saying it is unusable, because as mentioned I will be attempting to use mine sometimes in bright outdoors light or with an on camera light indoors and in close.

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