MFT IQ gets "annihilated"

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
Big Ga
Forum ProPosts: 16,507
Like?
MFT IQ gets "annihilated"
9 months ago

LOL.

Folks, there is a poster going under the name of 'Reilly Diefenbach' who claims that a D5300 armed with a (rather suspect) 18-55 kit lens "simply annihilates any mft for landscape" (and this is in a post using the EM1 with the 12-40/2.8 as an MFT option!)

The thread is over on the Landscape forum

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3584046

He's doesn't believe there are any samples out there showing clean, detailed MFT landscapes. Anyone care to oblige him with a good full res sample?

Its a doubly hilarious thread to me, as he posted what he claimed was a 'sooc' image from the D5300, but something was plainly 'wrong' with it, and now it seems he's had to admit that he post processed it (if you look at the corners of the two 18-55 samples posted, you'll see why he's tried to grossly over sharpen them!!).

I'm sure we have some people here who can show him what a decent MFT landscape image can look like. Spare no mercy. Do your best PP (although if you've got an oly set up properly, you might not even need it). But he writes "I would expect anyone to massage a mft shot if they were trying to convince me that their mft landscape shot was of sufficient quality to blow my skirt up. So far, no one has has ventured to put one up. How about it, folks? You're persistent as could be with the verbiage, but near mute when it comes to the money part."

And if you see how much he's PPed his second D5300 shot (which he 'borrowed' from Cameralabs BTW), I'm sure you'll have a good laugh.

Have fun!

Ga.

Nikon D5300 Olympus E-M1
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
LincolnB
Senior MemberPosts: 3,679Gear list
Like?
Re: MFT IQ gets "annihilated"
In reply to Big Ga, 9 months ago

Clearly some people think the camera takes the picture. It does not.

He's welcome to enter any of the DPR Challenges with his 5300 to see how "it" fares.

 LincolnB's gear list:LincolnB's gear list
Olympus PEN E-P1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G3 Fujifilm X-E1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-42mm F3.5-5.6 II ASPH Mega OIS +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Bob Tullis
Forum ProPosts: 26,368Gear list
Like?
Bad form
In reply to Big Ga, 9 months ago

Big Ga wrote:

LOL.

Folks, there is a poster going under the name of 'Reilly Diefenbach' who claims that a D5300 armed with a (rather suspect) 18-55 kit lens "simply annihilates any mft for landscape" (and this is in a post using the EM1 with the 12-40/2.8 as an MFT option!)

The thread is over on the Landscape forum

I understand the desire to put it 'in his face', but to rally support like a flash mob for this purpose. . . I just think should be reconsidered.

I happened to pass through that thread, yesterday I think, and while I did post a response I don't think any effort will change the mind of someone with that determined perspective.   Faith is impossible to reason with.

-- hide signature --

...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtullis/
.
"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Chief Dan George, Little Big Man
.

 Bob Tullis's gear list:Bob Tullis's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko ED 75-300mm 1:4.8-6.7 II Rokinon 7.5mm 1:3.5 UMC Fisheye CS Voigtlander Nokton 17.5mm F0.95 Aspherical Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 +18 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
happypoppeye
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,787Gear list
Like?
Re: MFT IQ gets "annihilated"
In reply to Big Ga, 9 months ago

Big Ga wrote:

LOL.

Folks, there is a poster going under the name of 'Reilly Diefenbach' who claims that a D5300 armed with a (rather suspect) 18-55 kit lens "simply annihilates any mft for landscape" (and this is in a post using the EM1 with the 12-40/2.8 as an MFT option!)

The thread is over on the Landscape forum

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3584046

He's doesn't believe there are any samples out there showing clean, detailed MFT landscapes. Anyone care to oblige him with a good full res sample?

Its a doubly hilarious thread to me, as he posted what he claimed was a 'sooc' image from the D5300, but something was plainly 'wrong' with it, and now it seems he's had to admit that he post processed it (if you look at the corners of the two 18-55 samples posted, you'll see why he's tried to grossly over sharpen them!!).

I'm sure we have some people here who can show him what a decent MFT landscape image can look like. Spare no mercy. Do your best PP (although if you've got an oly set up properly, you might not even need it). But he writes "I would expect anyone to massage a mft shot if they were trying to convince me that their mft landscape shot was of sufficient quality to blow my skirt up. So far, no one has has ventured to put one up. How about it, folks? You're persistent as could be with the verbiage, but near mute when it comes to the money part."

And if you see how much he's PPed his second D5300 shot (which he 'borrowed' from Cameralabs BTW), I'm sure you'll have a good laugh.

Have fun!

Ga.

All opinion ...probably a bad post by him and a bad post by you. If the 5300 does annihilate it, who cares.

 happypoppeye's gear list:happypoppeye's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF3 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH Panasonic Lumix G Vario HD 12-32mm F3.5-5.6 Mega OIS
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Steve Bingham
Forum ProPosts: 20,302Gear list
Like?
Re: MFT IQ gets "annihilated"
In reply to Big Ga, 9 months ago

I pretty much agree with Reilly - except the lens part!!! The 18-55 is about as mediocre lens as Nikon makes - but respectable at f5.6. Now why wouldn't a DX 24mp camera with no AA filter not be better than a MFT? Especially if they were both shooting with their best pro glass.

-- hide signature --

Steve Bingham
www.dustylens.com
www.ghost-town-photography.com

 Steve Bingham's gear list:Steve Bingham's gear list
Nikon D300 Nikon D7100 Nikon D610 Nikon D5300 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR +21 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Brendan Delaney
Contributing MemberPosts: 648Gear list
Like?
Re: MFT IQ gets "annihilated"
In reply to Steve Bingham, 9 months ago

Why bother...? Let him waste his time.

-- hide signature --

www.brendandelaneyphotography.com
Street, Urban and Documentary Photography

 Brendan Delaney's gear list:Brendan Delaney's gear list
Leica M-Monochrom Leica M Typ 240 Leica Summilux-M 24mm f/1.4 ASPH Leica Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 ASPH Leica Summilux-M 50mm f/1.4 ASPH +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jkrumm
Veteran MemberPosts: 8,074
Like?
Re: MFT IQ gets "annihilated"
In reply to Big Ga, 9 months ago

Hmmm, the lens looks crappy, but the shot looks clean enough. What's the point of going back and forth with him?

-- hide signature --

John Krumm
Juneau, AK

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
mcshan
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,316
Like?
Get the pitchforks?
In reply to Big Ga, 9 months ago

I shoot MFT often and it doesn't really bother me what someone says about doing so on another forum or thread. To me this is the Micro Four Thirds forum and not a fan club ("Justin Bieber is better than One Direction any day!"). Why rally the pitchfork and torch crowd over a silly DPR post?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Big Ga
Forum ProPosts: 16,507
Like?
Re: MFT IQ gets "annihilated"
In reply to Steve Bingham, 9 months ago

Steve Bingham wrote:

I pretty much agree with Reilly - except the lens part!!!

The 18-55 is about as mediocre lens as Nikon makes - but respectable at f5.6.

Hmmm. So you also agree with:

"I'm just not impressed by mft at all for landscape"

and his whole argument centred around using THAT lens, and compared to an EM1 with a 12-40!!

when I challenged him with

"And the 18-55 nikon v the 12-40 Oly pro lens ???? I know which one will annihilate the other in that fight, and the Nikon isn't going to come out the winner!!!"

his reply was:

'Sure it is. For landscape, the only thing that matters is the pixel count, as you're always at f8 or smaller where any pretty much any lens is outresolving the sensor through most of the frame'

So Steve, are you sure you're pretty much agreeing with Reilly ??

Now why wouldn't a DX 24mp camera with no AA filter not be better than a MFT? Especially if they were both shooting with their best pro glass

It should indeed be better that's not the argument.

We're talking about using the 'mediocre' 18-55 v probably the best pro landscape lens MFT has; we're also talking about that lens on the best MFT camera being 'annihilated' by the 'mediocre' lens setup; we're talking about someone who's claiming "For landscape, the only thing that matters is the pixel count"; and to top it off, we're dealing with someone who's posted an image to back up his assertion, claiming its 'sooc' and yet it looks as if its been sharpened to within an inch of its life.

Still sure you pretty much agree with him?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Big Ga
Forum ProPosts: 16,507
Like?
Re: Bad form
In reply to Bob Tullis, 9 months ago

Bob Tullis wrote:

I happened to pass through that thread, yesterday I think, and while I did post a response I don't think any effort will change the mind of someone with that determined perspective. Faith is impossible to reason with.

Who says my purpose is to try and change his mind? I agree that's very unlikely to happen.

However reading his hyperbole about how MFT is effectively so inferior for landscape use as to not be worth considering, could give other people over on the very generic landscape forum totally the wrong opinion. And he does seem to be a VERY prolific poster, with over 7000 posts in only a few years. People might actually listen to him!

But then this brings up the doubly troubling issue, that someone with that level of 'seniority' does to all intents and purposes, seem to have been caught out 'doctoring' images to suit his purposes, yet claiming they are straight out of camera. Frankly, this is well out of order in my books, regardless of the camera or format being talked about. And remember ... over on 1022, its ME that's considered to be the Nikon fanboy !!!!!

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
FrankS009
Senior MemberPosts: 2,196Gear list
Like?
Re: MFT IQ gets "annihilated"
In reply to Big Ga, 9 months ago

Relax. There are a lot of negative threads out there at the moment. I have half backed theories why, including unhappiness and loneliness of some of us at the Christmas season, and the defensive backlash as all sensor sizes start to approximate the same IQ in practical terms.  It is not worth getting worked up about. I am thankful for my GF1 and G1, and the opportunity to learn the craft in good company.  The best to all of us, cranky and not.

F.

-- hide signature --

When no-one else is there, the camera becomes my means...to say to a wider audience, "Did you see that?" David duChemin

 FrankS009's gear list:FrankS009's gear list
Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Bob Tullis
Forum ProPosts: 26,368Gear list
Like?
Re: Bad form
In reply to Big Ga, 9 months ago

Big Ga wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

I happened to pass through that thread, yesterday I think, and while I did post a response I don't think any effort will change the mind of someone with that determined perspective. Faith is impossible to reason with.

Who says my purpose is to try and change his mind? I agree that's very unlikely to happen.

However reading his hyperbole about how MFT is effectively so inferior for landscape use as to not be worth considering, could give other people over on the very generic landscape forum totally the wrong opinion. And he does seem to be a VERY prolific poster, with over 7000 posts in only a few years. People might actually listen to him!

But then this brings up the doubly troubling issue, that someone with that level of 'seniority' does to all intents and purposes, seem to have been caught out 'doctoring' images to suit his purposes, yet claiming they are straight out of camera. Frankly, this is well out of order in my books, regardless of the camera or format being talked about. And remember ... over on 1022, its ME that's considered to be the Nikon fanboy !!!!!

All one can do is state their position and let others be the judge.  The more one engages. . . there's that adage about arguing with fools. . . and as one who has engaged to a fault (much to my own embarassment), take it from me.   (You surely must remember the Tedolf/Tullis War of 2010-2012)  

-- hide signature --

...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtullis/
.
"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Chief Dan George, Little Big Man
.

 Bob Tullis's gear list:Bob Tullis's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko ED 75-300mm 1:4.8-6.7 II Rokinon 7.5mm 1:3.5 UMC Fisheye CS Voigtlander Nokton 17.5mm F0.95 Aspherical Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 +18 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Steve Bingham
Forum ProPosts: 20,302Gear list
Like?
Re: MFT IQ gets "annihilated"
In reply to Big Ga, 9 months ago

Big Ga wrote:

Steve Bingham wrote:

I pretty much agree with Reilly - except the lens part!!!

The 18-55 is about as mediocre lens as Nikon makes - but respectable at f5.6.

Hmmm. So you also agree with:

"I'm just not impressed by mft at all for landscape"

It's a great camera with a great lens - the 12-40. Could it shoot great landscapes? Absolutely - and then some.

and his whole argument centred around using THAT lens, and compared to an EM1 with a 12-40!!

when I challenged him with

"And the 18-55 nikon v the 12-40 Oly pro lens ???? I know which one will annihilate the other in that fight, and the Nikon isn't going to come out the winner!!!"

I would not agree. My money would be on the 12-40. Period.

his reply was:

'Sure it is. For landscape, the only thing that matters is the pixel count, as you're always at f8 or smaller where any pretty much any lens is outresolving the sensor through most of the frame'

So Steve, are you sure you're pretty much agreeing with Reilly ??

Now why wouldn't a DX 24mp camera with no AA filter not be better than a MFT? Especially if they were both shooting with their best pro glass

It should indeed be better that's not the argument.

We're talking about using the 'mediocre' 18-55 v probably the best pro landscape lens MFT has; we're also talking about that lens on the best MFT camera being 'annihilated' by the 'mediocre' lens setup; we're talking about someone who's claiming "For landscape, the only thing that matters is the pixel count"; and to top it off, we're dealing with someone who's posted an image to back up his assertion, claiming its 'sooc' and yet it looks as if its been sharpened to within an inch of its life.

Lenses do matter!!!!!

Still sure you pretty much agree with him?

Not when put this way.

-- hide signature --

Steve Bingham
www.dustylens.com
www.ghost-town-photography.com

 Steve Bingham's gear list:Steve Bingham's gear list
Nikon D300 Nikon D7100 Nikon D610 Nikon D5300 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR +21 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Steve Bingham
Forum ProPosts: 20,302Gear list
Like?
Re: MFT IQ gets "annihilated"
In reply to FrankS009, 9 months ago

FrankS009 wrote:

Relax. There are a lot of negative threads out there at the moment. I have half backed theories why, including unhappiness and loneliness of some of us at the Christmas season, and the defensive backlash as all sensor sizes start to approximate the same IQ in practical terms. It is not worth getting worked up about. I am thankful for my GF1 and G1, and the opportunity to learn the craft in good company. The best to all of us, cranky and not.

F.

-- hide signature --

When no-one else is there, the camera becomes my means...to say to a wider audience, "Did you see that?" David duChemin

And may this season bring peace to all. "Love is a better way."

-- hide signature --

Steve Bingham
www.dustylens.com
www.ghost-town-photography.com

 Steve Bingham's gear list:Steve Bingham's gear list
Nikon D300 Nikon D7100 Nikon D610 Nikon D5300 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR +21 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Clayton1985
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,834
Like?
Re: Bad form
In reply to Bob Tullis, 9 months ago

Bob Tullis wrote:

All one can do is state their position and let others be the judge. The more one engages. . . there's that adage about arguing with fools. . . and as one who has engaged to a fault (much to my own embarassment), take it from me. (You surely must remember the Tedolf/Tullis War of 2010-2012)

Well said Bob and I need to follow your advice more often...   I try to be reasonable when I post (probably don't always succeed )...  but I suppose going back and forth 30 times with someone being reasonable is ...   not always all that reasonable .

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
rhlpetrus
Forum ProPosts: 22,989Gear list
Like?
Re: MFT IQ gets "annihilated"
In reply to Big Ga, 9 months ago

Hyperbole is so common in these forums that I'm not surprised by such a post. The Nikon with a nice Zeiss WA could be the best crop camera for landscapes? Indeed, given the abscence of AA system and excellent Dr at base ISO. But the difference to a good mFT system would not be that much, since difference is about only 1.3x linearly or 1.7x in area, so less than a stop overall in IQ parameters. Likely, side-by-side comparison at same size would be difficult to say which is which, except possibly because of very fine detail (AA), which would not be visible on a 300 PPI print.

-- hide signature --

Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/
Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)

 rhlpetrus's gear list:rhlpetrus's gear list
Nikon D7000 Nikon 1 V1 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 12-24mm f/4G ED-IF Nikon AF Nikkor 35mm f/2D Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G VR +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Bob Tullis
Forum ProPosts: 26,368Gear list
Like?
Re: Bad form
In reply to Clayton1985, 9 months ago

Clayton1985 wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

All one can do is state their position and let others be the judge. The more one engages. . . there's that adage about arguing with fools. . . and as one who has engaged to a fault (much to my own embarassment), take it from me. (You surely must remember the Tedolf/Tullis War of 2010-2012)

Well said Bob and I need to follow your advice more often...

So do I.  

-- hide signature --

...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtullis/
.
"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Chief Dan George, Little Big Man
.

 Bob Tullis's gear list:Bob Tullis's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko ED 75-300mm 1:4.8-6.7 II Rokinon 7.5mm 1:3.5 UMC Fisheye CS Voigtlander Nokton 17.5mm F0.95 Aspherical Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 +18 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
RealPancho
Senior MemberPosts: 1,014Gear list
Like?
Re: Get the pitchforks?
In reply to mcshan, 9 months ago

mcshan wrote:

Justin Bieber

Who?

is better than One Direction

What?

any day!

Crazy kids these days! GET OFF OF MY LAWN!

-- hide signature --

Frank

 RealPancho's gear list:RealPancho's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TS3 Olympus E-620 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
RealPancho
Senior MemberPosts: 1,014Gear list
Like?
Re: Bad form
In reply to Bob Tullis, 9 months ago

Bob Tullis wrote:

You surely must remember the Tedolf/Tullis War of 2010-2012.

Sadly, I was only around for the very tail end of that conflict. (sighs wistfully, inexplicably missing the deceased combatant) It's strange how we romanticize war.

-- hide signature --

...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtullis/
.
"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Chief Dan George, Little Big Man
.

-- hide signature --

Frank

 RealPancho's gear list:RealPancho's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TS3 Olympus E-620 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Corkcampbell
Forum ProPosts: 12,834Gear list
Like?
Geeezz...who cares? Bob Tullis is correct - drop it and move on...
In reply to Big Ga, 9 months ago

...if you don't, you're in danger of being accused of showing your own insecurities about the platform, or of just being overly argumentative/combative. I read threads and posts every day that I don't agree with, but I usually just ignore them. People who post inaccurate claims usually hang themselves; they don't need our help to do so.

 Corkcampbell's gear list:Corkcampbell's gear list
Sigma DP2 Merrill Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 RX100 III Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Olympus OM-D E-M5 +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads