A7r Imperfect E-Lens Compatibilty

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
JerryM7
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A7r Imperfect E-Lens Compatibilty
7 months ago

Just received my A7r and 35mm FE lens this week.  A great combo, with outstanding resolution and clarity at 36 Mpx.  Was pleased to see I could also use all my earlier E-lenses work on the A7r in crop mode at about same resolution as my NEX6, but with 1-stop greater ISO sensitivity.

I discovered, however, that OSS stabilization does not work on some E-lenses on the A7r.  They include Sony's 55-200mm and 16-50mm E-lenses.  OSS does work on Sony's 10-20mm and 18-200mm (old version) lenses.

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nevercat
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Re: A7r Imperfect E-Lens Compatibilty
In reply to JerryM7, 7 months ago

Did you tell Sony direct of this problem, I think they should adress this in a FW update (if possible)

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blue_skies
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Re: A7r Imperfect E-Lens Compatibilty
In reply to JerryM7, 7 months ago

JerryM7 wrote:

Just received my A7r and 35mm FE lens this week. A great combo, with outstanding resolution and clarity at 36 Mpx. Was pleased to see I could also use all my earlier E-lenses work on the A7r in crop mode at about same resolution as my NEX6, but with 1-stop greater ISO sensitivity.

Do you see one stop advantage in crop mode? I thought that this applies only to using the entire FF sensor...

I discovered, however, that OSS stabilization does not work on some E-lenses on the A7r. They include Sony's 55-200mm and 16-50mm E-lenses. OSS does work on Sony's 10-20mm and 18-200mm (old version) lenses.

Yes, odd...

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Cheers,
Henry

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MG Nivard
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Re: A7r Imperfect E-Lens Compatibilty
In reply to JerryM7, 7 months ago

This is unfortunate. I was gonna go for the ultimate low weight kit for backpacking:

A7, 55-210, 24-70 zeiss and 50mm canon FD or 55mm zeiss FE.

The cynic in me thinks this might be on purpose to drive up sales for the upcoming 70-200 f4. As I rarely use tele lenses this lens might not be for me, especially if I decide to drag it halve-way across the globe on a 6 month backpacking adventure. I would be inclined to bring the 55-210 for the occasional bird or landscape pic, OSS would obviously be a big plus.

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Horshack
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What doesn't work?
In reply to JerryM7, 7 months ago

Do you mean you can't turn OSS on when those lenses are mounted? Or that the OSS doesn't seem to be effective?

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viking79
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Re: A7r Imperfect E-Lens Compatibilty
In reply to blue_skies, 7 months ago

blue_skies wrote:

JerryM7 wrote:

Just received my A7r and 35mm FE lens this week. A great combo, with outstanding resolution and clarity at 36 Mpx. Was pleased to see I could also use all my earlier E-lenses work on the A7r in crop mode at about same resolution as my NEX6, but with 1-stop greater ISO sensitivity.

Do you see one stop advantage in crop mode? I thought that this applies only to using the entire FF sensor...

You only see any advantage using the full sensor.  Jerry might be referring to the fact the A7 offers more selectable ISO values?  The actual performance will be the same as APS-C.  It just makes for a really expensive APS-C camera  Still nice for people to use the lenses, even though I have no plans to use any of the APS-C lenses.

Eric

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JerryM7
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Re: What doesn't work?
In reply to Horshack, 7 months ago

Horshack wrote:

Do you mean you can't turn OSS on when those lenses are mounted? Or that the OSS doesn't seem to be effective?

You can't turn on OSS when those lenses are mounted.  When you try to turn on OSS the camera gives a message that OSS is not supported for that lens.  The lens also definitely behave as if there is no OSS.

The one-stop advantage of the A7r I mentioned previously is real in crop-mode (15 MPx mode), presumably because of the superior sensor in the A7r.  With a full-frame FE lens you get that same sensitivity for a full 36 MPx photo.  If you turn off the APS-C crop with an E-lens, the center of the image appears exactly the same as the APS-C on cropped image when blown up to 100%.  In my comparisons using a 10-20mm E-lens, ISO 6400 photos taken with the A7r have about the same noise as ISO 3200 photos taken on my NEX6.

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Horshack
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Re: What doesn't work?
In reply to JerryM7, 7 months ago

JerryM7 wrote:

You can't turn on OSS when those lenses are mounted. When you try to turn on OSS the camera gives a message that OSS is not supported for that lens. The lens also definitely behave as if there is no OSS.

Thanks, that's curious to hear.

The one-stop advantage of the A7r I mentioned previously is real in crop-mode (15 MPx mode), presumably because of the superior sensor in the A7r. With a full-frame FE lens you get that same sensitivity for a full 36 MPx photo. If you turn off the APS-C crop with an E-lens, the center of the image appears exactly the same as the APS-C on cropped image when blown up to 100%. In my comparisons using a 10-20mm E-lens, ISO 6400 photos taken with the A7r have about the same noise as ISO 3200 photos taken on my NEX6.

I'll have to try this out. By the numbers the A7R's crop performance should be within spitting distance of Sony's 16MP APS-C cameras since the underlying sensor performance isn't all that different on a per-area basis. The A7R's sensor is better but it would be hard pressed to show a 1 stop advantage for the APS-C area.

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Clayton1985
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Re: A7r Imperfect E-Lens Compatibilty
In reply to MG Nivard, 7 months ago

MG Nivard wrote:

This is unfortunate. I was gonna go for the ultimate low weight kit for backpacking:

A7, 55-210, 24-70 zeiss and 50mm canon FD or 55mm zeiss FE.

The cynic in me thinks this might be on purpose to drive up sales for the upcoming 70-200 f4. As I rarely use tele lenses this lens might not be for me, especially if I decide to drag it halve-way across the globe on a 6 month backpacking adventure. I would be inclined to bring the 55-210 for the occasional bird or landscape pic, OSS would obviously be a big plus.

I would certainly expect Sony to update the FW to support all OSS lenses...   and hopefully Sony will acknowledge the issue and let us know that they plan to fix it.

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viking79
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Re: What doesn't work?
In reply to JerryM7, 7 months ago

JerryM7 wrote:

Horshack wrote:

Do you mean you can't turn OSS on when those lenses are mounted? Or that the OSS doesn't seem to be effective?

You can't turn on OSS when those lenses are mounted. When you try to turn on OSS the camera gives a message that OSS is not supported for that lens. The lens also definitely behave as if there is no OSS.

The one-stop advantage of the A7r I mentioned previously is real in crop-mode (15 MPx mode), presumably because of the superior sensor in the A7r. With a full-frame FE lens you get that same sensitivity for a full 36 MPx photo. If you turn off the APS-C crop with an E-lens, the center of the image appears exactly the same as the APS-C on cropped image when blown up to 100%. In my comparisons using a 10-20mm E-lens, ISO 6400 photos taken with the A7r have about the same noise as ISO 3200 photos taken on my NEX6.

Running crop mode on full frame is exactly the same as using the smaller sensor.  My guess is there is some other factor involved here (shutter speed, ISO, and aperture need to be exactly the same and should probably compare RAW or with the same JPEG settings).  You lose all benefit of full frame running in crop mode.  This is why APS-C sensors are often referred to as "crop sensors" as they are a crop of a full frame sensor.

With full frame you get added ISO performance because you use a larger sensor area so you don't need to enlarge the image as much to reach the same viewing size.  The more you enlarge the image, the more you enlarge noise and make it more obvious and the softer the image will look.

Eric

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Paul1974
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Re: A7r Imperfect E-Lens Compatibilty
In reply to JerryM7, 7 months ago

I don't believe Sony overlooked this. So either you are using some faulty units or these compatibility issues are in the specs. How many units did you test and what was the reply from your seller?

JerryM7 wrote:

I discovered, however, that OSS stabilization does not work on some E-lenses on the A7r. They include Sony's 55-200mm and 16-50mm E-lenses. OSS does work on Sony's 10-20mm and 18-200mm (old version) lenses.

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ZzzooM3
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Re: A7r Imperfect E-Lens Compatibilty
In reply to JerryM7, 7 months ago

JerryM7 wrote:

I discovered, however, that OSS stabilization does not work on some E-lenses on the A7r. They include Sony's 55-200mm and 16-50mm E-lenses. OSS does work on Sony's 10-20mm and 18-200mm (old version) lenses.

E-mount 35mm f/1.8 OSS is also supported by A7

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: A7r Imperfect E-Lens Compatibilty
In reply to viking79, 7 months ago

blue_skies wrote:

JerryM7 wrote:

Just received my A7r and 35mm FE lens this week. A great combo, with outstanding resolution and clarity at 36 Mpx. Was pleased to see I could also use all my earlier E-lenses work on the A7r in crop mode at about same resolution as my NEX6, but with 1-stop greater ISO sensitivity.

Do you see one stop advantage in crop mode? I thought that this applies only to using the entire FF sensor...

You only see any advantage using the full sensor.  Jerry might be referring to the fact the A7 offers more selectable ISO values?  The actual performance will be the same as APS-C.  It just makes for a really expensive APS-C camera  Still nice for people to use the lenses, even though I have no plans to use any of the APS-C lenses.

Eric

1.8 will have 1+ stop metring advantage.

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PeterTX
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Re: A7r Imperfect E-Lens Compatibilty
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, 7 months ago

So does this mean that my A7 wont be able to use OSS on the 55-210 either?

That is a concern since that would have been my perfect combination for the odd occasions when I need telephoto and stabilization.

I really dont want to invest $1k for a telephoto lens for full frame.

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JerryM7
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Re: A7r Imperfect E-Lens Compatibilty
In reply to Paul1974, 7 months ago

I notified Sony of the problem and received the following response:

"Thank you for contacting Sony Support.

I understand that the Steadyshot option on your A7r camera is not available when using the SEL55210 and SELP1650 lenses.

As of this time, there are 4 E-mount lenses that when used on the A7 and A7r cameras make the Steadyshot option unavailable. These are:

? SEL1855
? SEL55210
? SELP1650
? SEL18200LE

Our engineering team is still looking into these. Information with regard to a firmware update is not available yet."

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PeterTX
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Re: A7r Imperfect E-Lens Compatibilty
In reply to JerryM7, 7 months ago

So does this mean that we can look forward to a firmware upgrade to fix the issue or_

I have not owned a Sony before so no history of how they deal with issues like this.

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