MY Overall M43 Impression

Started 10 months ago | Discussions
NorCalAl
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MY Overall M43 Impression
10 months ago

I wanted something I would take with me rather than sit at home in a bag, which is where my D7100 and assorted lenses lived most of the time. The weight and size meant, for me, that a full-size dslr was not a casual carry along companion. Even though, since 2006, that is exactly what it was.
So I began by looking at p/s and then at RX100-types. I decided if I was going to spend that much, I might as well look (again, since I did have, for a short time, a GF1) at M43. The GX7 was just out and I grabbed one. For whatever reason, I decided then and there to drop my Nikon and go with M43. It's perhaps fair then to take the following criticism as buyer's remorse. However, I feel my observations are correct and honest, as well.
$1000 for the GX7 is simply absurd. It has no where near the quality of the D7100. Or the D7000, if you want a closer match price-wise. Even the current $800 or so is much too high.
Quality is no match for even lower end Nikon or Canon dslrs. On the EM5, I've seen numerous complaints about dials falling off or spinning on the spindles. Suggestions for fixes range from warranty to super glue! Those of you with dslr backgrounds, can you seriously imagine suggestions to fix your $1000 Nikon/Canon involving super glue?
This extends to lens quality - as has been shown, even with just the few reports - with the new "pro" 12-40. DSLR users would be filling the forums for incidents like that!
There is also no serious OEM flash solution. If you're going to price products on the same level, there should be the same system level of integration for one of the most important pieces of the system - light! The M43 system has been around long enough to allow for a serious line of flash units.
The other thing that really confuses me is why, as users, promoters and consumers of the system, so many seem willing to compromise and make excuses for the state of the format. I do understand that it is a small percentage of the overall camera business. I get limited resources to develop the format. But I see it as a catch-22 type thing. Most serious shooters won't embrace the system while key pieces are missing (decent long lenses, flash). Current users rationalize issues. These equal a permanent small user base with small R&D budgets to match.
Yes, the EM1 is a big step in the right direction. Sigma joining the list of lens suppliers is a good sign, too. But we have to quit accepting the shortcomings and demand better.
Better quality. Better system integration.
I'm not selling out, but I'm not going to make excuses or say this is a mature system, either. And it should be for the prices charged.

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KwhyChang
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Re: MY Overall M43 Impression
In reply to NorCalAl, 10 months ago

Why don't you buy the camera you want, go out take some pictures, and quit complaining.

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Dave

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GodSpeaks
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Oh brother
In reply to NorCalAl, 10 months ago

You are welcome to your opinion, even if wrong.  

The MFT cameras, especially the current generation, can easily go head to head with APS sensors when it comes to image quality.  I own MFT, APS and FF sensored cameras, so I can state this from experience.

The area where MFT falls behind would mainly be pixel count.  APS is now at 24MP and FF 36MP.  Although 24MP is not a terribly significant increase, 36MP is.   That said, I expect to see 20 and/or 24MP MFT next year.

In any event, up to you what you think or believe.

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lnikj
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Re: MY Overall M43 Impression
In reply to NorCalAl, 10 months ago

I agree with everything you say (seriously, I'm not being facetious), but I especially agree with this bit:

I wanted something I would take with me rather than sit at home in a bag, which is where my D7100 and assorted lenses lived most of the time. The weight and size meant, for me, that a full-size dslr was not a casual carry along companion. Even though, since 2006, that is exactly what it was.

I am in the process of migrating from Nikon APS-C to the E-M1. I agree that the system is severely compromised. But my camera is now with me on my daily walks, not sitting in the bag in the cupboard.

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liquidsquid
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As for flash on m4/3
In reply to NorCalAl, 10 months ago

M4/3 cameras are "take with you" cams, that is the market of these guys, and why the small size is attractive. In fact, that is the reason you went and purchased one, right? Who wants to drag a bunch of flashes with them, when portability is a primary feature? If you are developing images using flashes for light, you are buying into the wrong system. Nikon had that market cornered, and size should not be an issue in settings where you are painting with light.

I tried the flash on my GH2 a few times, and the results stunk for my type of photography. I stick with natural light, which I fine more appealing and less "fake". That is why I am looking at some of the latest cams, to extend low light a bit to shorten shutter times in natural light.

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Bob Tullis
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In reply to NorCalAl, 10 months ago

That's a lot of bother, to lay all that out for a system that doesn't meet the needs of the serious photographer.

Your time to lay this all out is most appreciated, clearly being a public service for the deluded.  After all, you could have just dismissed the format and not said a word,  and left us all to go on with our childlike endeavors.

I'd expand on that appreciation, but right now I'm typing with my left hand only. . . apparently I used a bit too much crazy glue, and my right index finger is stuck on the shutter button.

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Dheorl
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Re: As for flash on m4/3
In reply to liquidsquid, 10 months ago

liquidsquid wrote:

M4/3 cameras are "take with you" cams, that is the market of these guys, and why the small size is attractive. In fact, that is the reason you went and purchased one, right? Who wants to drag a bunch of flashes with them, when portability is a primary feature? If you are developing images using flashes for light, you are buying into the wrong system. Nikon had that market cornered, and size should not be an issue in settings where you are painting with light.

I'm confused by this statement. Why would you not want something smaller just because your carrying a few extra accessories?

I tried the flash on my GH2 a few times, and the results stunk for my type of photography. I stick with natural light, which I fine more appealing and less "fake".

When I see this I can't help but think maybe you just need more practise with a flash. If you can get the shots you want without them then that's grand, but if you get good enough it's not overly hard to create images where you can't tell a flash was used.

That is why I am looking at some of the latest cams, to extend low light a bit to shorten shutter times in natural light.

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Jolly Oly
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Re: Thank you.
In reply to Bob Tullis, 10 months ago

Bob Tullis wrote:

I'd expand on that appreciation, but right now I'm typing with my left hand only. . . apparently I used a bit too much crazy glue, and my right index finger is stuck on the shutter button.

lol 

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smithling
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In reply to NorCalAl, 10 months ago

I can't speak for Olympus cameras, but having owned Panasonic cameras that are still going strong over similarly priced Nikons that died after a few thousand shutter actuations, I disagree with your build quality assessment.

There's more to prices than build-quality. If there is a price premium on m4/3, then it is a premium paid for overall small size of the system, and performance of the lenses.

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mraspex
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Re: Oh brother
In reply to GodSpeaks, 10 months ago

GodSpeaks wrote:

You are welcome to your opinion, even if wrong.

The MFT cameras, especially the current generation, can easily go head to head with APS sensors when it comes to image quality. I own MFT, APS and FF sensored cameras, so I can state this from experience.

The area where MFT falls behind would mainly be pixel count. APS is now at 24MP and FF 36MP. Although 24MP is not a terribly significant increase, 36MP is. That said, I expect to see 20 and/or 24MP MFT next year.

In any event, up to you what you think or believe.

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The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'
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Could you be so kind to post some pictures or sources to support your argument Sir? If you really own all these formats, it should be rather easy and would be appreciated.

I don't believe that they can squeeze even more MP on this tiny MFT sensor. 16 is too much already because the noise levels are getting too high. This is simply physics. MFT pictures mostly look like point and shoot or smart phone pictures without any 3D effect to them because of the small sensor. This will even get worse with more MPs.

Another problem of MFT clearly is that, while it is small, it just doesn't allow serious portrait photography. Creating a really shallow depth of field is not possible with small sensors and getting fast lenses is much more important if you want shallow depth of field. These are overpriced.

So while I think MFT is nice for touristy pictures, if your looking for good quality pictures, look elsewhere.

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Sunny Caribe
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Re: MY Overall M43 Impression
In reply to NorCalAl, 10 months ago

Have I got this right?  You bought a camera, the price then dropped, so you homed in on anecdotal (and ridiculous) complaints put out by canikon sock puppets and, rather than putting some effort into learning a new system you took the lowest road possible and came here to run down the system.

Check.

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Rick

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photobeans
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You've read "reports"
In reply to NorCalAl, 10 months ago

Has this happend to your camera? If not, why complain about what other users are experiencing. Sure, quality can be better but I haven't broke anything on my m43 cameras or had to send them in. m43 cameras are more expensive than Canikons for sure, but they don't sell enough of them to lower the prices. Olympus and Panasonic cameras were/are losing money for the companies making them. They can't possibly compete on that kind of price scale. I have a DSLR but I would never go back because I just hate carrying them around. I'm happy to pay a price premium for something I love to shoot with.

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Dheorl
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Re: Oh brother
In reply to mraspex, 10 months ago

mraspex wrote:

GodSpeaks wrote:

You are welcome to your opinion, even if wrong.

The MFT cameras, especially the current generation, can easily go head to head with APS sensors when it comes to image quality. I own MFT, APS and FF sensored cameras, so I can state this from experience.

The area where MFT falls behind would mainly be pixel count. APS is now at 24MP and FF 36MP. Although 24MP is not a terribly significant increase, 36MP is. That said, I expect to see 20 and/or 24MP MFT next year.

In any event, up to you what you think or believe.

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The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'
- Rayna Butler

Could you be so kind to post some pictures or sources to support your argument Sir? If you really own all these formats, it should be rather easy and would be appreciated.

I don't believe that they can squeeze even more MP on this tiny MFT sensor. 16 is too much already because the noise levels are getting too high. This is simply physics. MFT pictures mostly look like point and shoot or smart phone pictures without any 3D effect to them because of the small sensor. This will even get worse with more MPs.

I'm curious as to what this 3D effect your talking about is. Also could you explain the "physics" behind it for us who aren't privy to such learnings.

Another problem of MFT clearly is that, while it is small, it just doesn't allow serious portrait photography. Creating a really shallow depth of field is not possible with small sensors and getting fast lenses is much more important if you want shallow depth of field. These are overpriced.

If you think shallow DoF is the beginning and end of serious portrait photography I weep for you. Most of the best fashion shots I've ever seen have used a pretty deep DOF.

So while I think MFT is nice for touristy pictures, if your looking for good quality pictures, look elsewhere.

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pinnacle
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It's not the system for you.
In reply to NorCalAl, 10 months ago

You take the issue with buttons on some user's E-M5 cameras and assume there is a pandemic. You claim there are no high end flash units for the system and yet I use the high end FL50 on my E-P5 along with Alien Bees and other radio controlled flash units without issue. I have owned:

Olympus E-P1 Went to Italy and worked perfectly. Also worked well for many other uses over a couple of years of use.

Olympus E-P3 worked just fine.

Panasonic GX-1 worked just fine.

Panasonic G5 worked as advertised.

Olympus E-PL5 still working great.

Olympus E-P5 exceeding my expectations.

Panasonic 14mm, 20mm, 25mm, 45-200mm Zero issues

Olympus 12mm, 14-42mm, 17mm, 45mm, 75mm, 12-40mm all exceeding my expectations.

I have had no buttons fall off, no lenses falling apart...

I print 13x19 inch images from high ISO files that I send to friends and relatives and receive high compliments.

I get it. You and M43 don't get along well. Dwell on the things that do make you happy. Dwell on the priorities that are important to "you."

Thank you for allowing us to assist you in your M43 pain release therapy. I wish you well with a system that fits your "perception" of usability.

Dan

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benarden
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Re: MY Overall M43 Impression / Pictures for comparisons?
In reply to NorCalAl, 10 months ago

NorCalAl wrote:

Re" quality is no match for even lower end Nikon or Canon dslrs."

Re: " Quality"
-Could you please post some large, side-by side pictures, so we could get a good
idea of what it is your complaining about .
Shouldn't be too difficult Since you have all these cameras, right ?

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JeanLucX
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Re: As for flash on m4/3
In reply to liquidsquid, 10 months ago

m4/3 is for newer generation photographers, they like easy, fast and light cameras. They probably used to take pictures from their smartphones. I personally love my E-M5 because it is quick and easy. I can touch what I see from the screen and take a picture by touching it. JPEG looks great out of box so I don't need to do anything about it. In other words, no skill required, no lightroom required and no big investment on expensive cameras and lens required. Everything comes cheap and easy, that is how future photography should be.

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yyr
yyr
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Great thread. More fun than watching the telly (n/t)
In reply to NorCalAl, 10 months ago
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Yaelle

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padrelar
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Re: MY Overall M43 Impression
In reply to NorCalAl, 10 months ago

NorCalAl wrote:

Quality is no match for even lower end Nikon or Canon dslrs.

There is also no serious OEM flash solution. If you're going to price products on the same level, there should be the same system level of integration for one of the most important pieces of the system - light! The M43 system has been around long enough to allow for a serious line of flash units.

On these two points this article may help ... http://robinwong.blogspot.com/2013/10/moving-on-to-micro-four-thirds-and-klpf.html

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mraspex
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Re: As for flash on m4/3
In reply to JeanLucX, 10 months ago

JeanLucX wrote:

m4/3 is for newer generation photographers, they like easy, fast and light cameras. They probably used to take pictures from their smartphones. I personally love my E-M5 because it is quick and easy. I can touch what I see from the screen and take a picture by touching it. JPEG looks great out of box so I don't need to do anything about it. In other words, no skill required, no lightroom required and no big investment on expensive cameras and lens required. Everything comes cheap and easy, that is how future photography should be.

If you are being cynical then I applaud you. New generation of photographers? Will the new generation of racing card drivers use a Volkswagen instead of a Porsche?

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nevada5
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Re: Great thread. More fun than watching the telly (n/t)
In reply to yyr, 10 months ago

The Real Housewives of DPR

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