Nearly Three Months

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
OlyChamp
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Nearly Three Months
7 months ago

Yup that's how long the OM D EM-1 has been on the market.  After a few weeks there was conjecture that the camera was good enough for E System diehards to switch systems and in some cases this has happened.

But there was also a few posts about some folks selling their E Systems to facilitate that switch.  And probably with good reason.  But what is the truth now?  Well apart from that few, many have stuck with "outdated" gear and still ply their trade in photography with vim and vigour.

So what of those sell offs?  Well I have been monitoring our local auction sites with a certain degree of hope in picking up an Ex and glass for a bargain price.  The reality is otherwise.  Apart from one E620 and Kit Lenses (that has been asking too much), there have been no other E systems up for sale.  None!!  Plenty of mFT systems, but no E system units.

I am not sure how overseas representations on auction sites are going but here in NZ if folks are buying into the OM D EM-1 then they are also keeping their E systems, so far.

Your thoughts and experiences?

Thane

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drj3
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Re: Nearly Three Months
In reply to OlyChamp, 7 months ago

I purchased the E-M1, but plan to keep my E5 (and my E510).  The E-M1 will replace my E5 for birds which are not flying and for situations where the dynamic range will exceed my E5's capability.  When I need extended battery life, I will use the E5 (2500 images vs 350 per battery).  For most situations, I will use either the E-M1 or E5, depending on which lens is on which camera.  I don't find much difference between them below ISO 1600 as long as I get the exposure correct on the E5.  The E-M1 does allow more recovery from poorly exposed photographs.

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OlyChamp
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And some other thoughts (When you shoot me be kind)
In reply to OlyChamp, 7 months ago

I followed DPR's review advert showing the OM D EM-1 rated at a high 84% and was surprised to read on the very first line something I found perturbing.  "targeted at semi-pro/enthusiast"

Perturbing in the fact that Olympuses new flagship is aimed at the high end of enthusiast and not higher, i.e. pro level.  Have Olympus conceded then that they can't spend R&D dollars on producing a high end Pro camera to take on the likes of Canon and Nikon?

The E7 would have gone a long way to pressing for market share of a decent pro camera, or even the development of something new and far superior.  They already had the glass locked down, just produce a body that pro users could feel comfortable about, and tackle that market share situation.

If Olympus continue with mediocrity then they deserve to lose market share and lose custom/followers.  Maybe the E7 or similar isn't dead yet.  Maybe, just maybe in 2014 we'll know their plans "to succeed" in the very high end. Or maybe that article from MSN Money is a foreboding.

Thane

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dav
dav
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Re: Nearly Three Months
In reply to drj3, 7 months ago

drj3 wrote:

I purchased the E-M1, but plan to keep my E5 (and my E510). The E-M1 will replace my E5 for birds which are not flying and for situations where the dynamic range will exceed my E5's capability. When I need extended battery life, I will use the E5 (2500 images vs 350 per battery). For most situations, I will use either the E-M1 or E5, depending on which lens is on which camera. I don't find much difference between them below ISO 1600 as long as I get the exposure correct on the E5. The E-M1 does allow more recovery from poorly exposed photographs.

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drj3870

In fact according to the Olympus specs the E5 battery is good for "approx 870 shots (optical view finder only)" and the EM1 330 shots, the reality is quite different, as you say 2500 shots for the E5 is quite achievable  ( I have had that many times ) and from the EM1 I have had over 1000 shots on several occasions......ok on 3 occasions, so yes the E5 has more capacity but not 2500 - 350. The EM! is not THAT bad!

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simonvandermolen
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Re: Nearly Three Months
In reply to OlyChamp, 7 months ago

I've had my EM1 for two weeks now and am loving it!!! Sold my E5 on Ebay (USPS lost it, $1200 down the drain :() Sold my E3 & grip for $300 and my EM5 & grip for $1200 So now I have just the EM1 & grip and doubt I'll need any other camera for a while

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JiminDenver
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Re: And some other thoughts (When you shoot me be kind)
In reply to OlyChamp, 7 months ago

Thane

Had Oly slapped a Pro name on the EM 1 we wouldn't be hearing how wonderful it was, we would be hearing how it doesn't stack up to other pro models.

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pris
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Hmm?
In reply to OlyChamp, 7 months ago

OlyChamp wrote:

I followed DPR's review advert showing the OM D EM-1 rated at a high 84% and was surprised to read on the very first line something I found perturbing. "targeted at semi-pro/enthusiast"

Perturbing in the fact that Olympuses new flagship is aimed at the high end of enthusiast and not higher, i.e. pro level. Have Olympus conceded then that they can't spend R&D dollars on producing a high end Pro camera to take on the likes of Canon and Nikon?

Olympus said it was their pro offering, successor of E-5 and new flagship.

The E7 would have gone a long way to pressing for market share of a decent pro camera, or even the development of something new and far superior. They already had the glass locked down, just produce a body that pro users could feel comfortable about, and tackle that market share situation.

I am lost about this whole line of thoughts... Didn't Olympus release a camera that presses for market share with much more success than E-5 ever did, judging by reviews and enthusiasm with which this release has been met? Isn't it "something new" and per most reactions, "far superior?" Didn't those same pro users pick E-M1 over E-7 when Olympus was making the final decision? How is it indicating that they are not comfortable with E-M1 and would be more comfortable with E-7?

If Olympus continue with mediocrity

E-M1 - mediocrity? Eeck.

then they deserve to lose market share and lose custom/followers.

Say, between E-5 and E-M1, or even E-M5 for that matter, which one added customers for Olympus and which lost? May I remind you how E-5 release launched endless "that's it, I am leaving" and how OMDs brought new users from all walks of life? What makes you think traditional DSLR E-7 would be any different, and not just give a push to another wave of "where is that OBS, why continue lost battle" etc?

Maybe the E7 or similar isn't dead yet. Maybe, just maybe in 2014 we'll know their plans "to succeed" in the very high end.

You are still under impression that a camera with access to 1 line of lenses instead of 2 and with traditional tech instead of what E-M1 offers is higher end, I see... I have a suggestion: start a pool asking former DSLR/currentE-M1 users whether they'd want to return to DSLR, not add but return to, as in replace their E-M1s with traditional DSLR. I suspect you'll be surprised.

Or maybe that article from MSN Money is a foreboding.

What a hogwash that article is...

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Garry Schaefer
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Re: Nearly Three Months
In reply to OlyChamp, 7 months ago

I've had my E-5 with 14-54 sitting here beside my E-M1 with 12-40 since the latter arrived. I have not taken a single shot with the E-5 since that date. I have no doubt about which path I am on and which I want to continue on.

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pris
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2+ months later,
In reply to Garry Schaefer, 7 months ago

Garry Schaefer wrote:

I've had my E-5 with 14-54 sitting here beside my E-M1 with 12-40 since the latter arrived. I have not taken a single shot with the E-5 since that date. I have no doubt about which path I am on and which I want to continue on.

I find myself in the same place, or state of mind. I did pick E-5 a few times, but every time I found it lacking comparing to E-M1 which is just much more of a camera. Heck, even if the only difference between them were WYSIWYG viewfinder vs OVF, that alone would have been worth the price of admission - that big of a deal it is, IMO. Seeing a shot exactly as it's going to come out became invaluable to me. And there is a lot to like aside of that.

I have very little doubt that my E-5 will be let go. I had great 3 years with it, time to move on.

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Godfrey
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Re: Nearly Three Months
In reply to OlyChamp, 7 months ago

Why sell my ZD lenses? They work beautifully on the E-M1 and E-1.

Why sell my E-1? It's a superb camera, still my favorite DSLR ... And besides, the $200 or so I'd get for it isnt anywhere its value as a working camera.

What I am selling is all the other cameras I don't need any longer because I now have the E-M1.

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joeletx
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I sold my E-3 and the E-5 will be next
In reply to OlyChamp, 7 months ago

I have been shooting with my new E-M1 for over a month now and have not have a good reason to touch the old E-5 body since. As someone has already mentioned, WYSIWYG on either live view or on the EVF is the best thing ever happens on a camera for me. Even the highly talked about GX-7 does not have this feature. No more under-exposed or trial shoots with the E-5. Almost all the shots I made with my new E-M1 were as close as the ways I wanted or the ways I saw them.

My have not bought the 12-40 Pro yet but that will come in time when funding is raised from selling. In the mean time, the 12-60 SWD is doing as good as it ever was with the E-5 and I don't plan to get rid of it. I sold the E-3 with 47k and the E-5 with 35k is going to be next. I still have the E-500 because it was the first DSLR bought and it is nearly worthless now. The way I see it, every camera bodies I owned has fulfilled it own usefulness.

Joe

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TrapperJohn
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Why target pros?
In reply to OlyChamp, 7 months ago

That would be an expensive and tough market to crack. C/N both have worldwide pro service organizations that couldn't easily (or cheaply) be reproduced, and the pro market itself isn't very large.

Targeting advanced amateurs is more profitable and more likely to be successful, because there are a lot more of them than pros, and they generally don't need (or are willing to pay for) next day worldwide service.

If working pros find the EM1's size to their advantage and bring one along in situations where the smaller size is benefiicial, so much the better.

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pris
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Re: Why target pros?
In reply to TrapperJohn, 7 months ago

TrapperJohn wrote:

That would be an expensive and tough market to crack. C/N both have worldwide pro service organizations that couldn't easily (or cheaply) be reproduced, and the pro market itself isn't very large.

Targeting advanced amateurs is more profitable and more likely to be successful, because there are a lot more of them than pros, and they generally don't need (or are willing to pay for) next day worldwide service.

Very true, and don't forget that many of those advanced amateurs are semi-pros in a sense. They may not do photography as a main income source, but they do various types of commercial photography for a complementary income. In a way, this circle is no less and maybe even more lucrative than pure pros that do it for a living. There are more of them, and also such semi-pros derive their main income from something else, and view photography as expensive hobby that they mastered to a degree that allows it to pay for itself. Many of them might be more inclined to spend on a new item than a pro balancing the books and watching his expenses. I mean, most pros simply make a living and view new purchases as expenses to be kept to a necessary minimum.

If working pros find the EM1's size to their advantage and bring one along in situations where the smaller size is benefiicial, so much the better.

Starting with E-M5 and continuing with E-M1, that's exactly what happens. Not sure about Pens, I never watched them with interest.

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OlyChamp
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Re: Why target pros?
In reply to TrapperJohn, 7 months ago

That's all well and good and probably correct.  Back to market share.  I know DPR and other reviewers have given the E-M1 plenty of kudos points but is it enough to grab new owners from other systems or is it just Oly users being targeted?  There's that market share quotient again.  For Olympus to survive, they need to capture custom from other systems as Oly users alone won't make them a profit.

Thane

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Dan
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Re: Nearly Three Months
In reply to simonvandermolen, 7 months ago

Simon - the USPS package wasn't insured?

I am very surprised they lost a package if you declared the value as $1200...when I send or receive a package with that declared value USPS makes someone sign for it's receipt.

Just wondering if it was insured and definitely not pointing fingers.

Dan

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daddyo
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This should clear the air...
In reply to TrapperJohn, 7 months ago

But I'm sure it won't:-)

A quote from the Olympus America website, regarding the E-M1:

"Details, details. All part of the revolutionary design elements that make this the perfect camera for professionals and serious photo enthusiasts alike."

If folks on these forums want to argue about whether this E-M1 is supposed to be a 'pro' camera, at least admit that Olympus thinks so. Canon doesn't consider the 6D a professional camera, but I assure you that many pros are using them.

Personally, I have sold most of my 4/3's DSLR gear and will soon be down to a pristine E-300 w/grip and a few 4/3's lenses. The only reason I hang on to the E-300 is that it's a light, compact 4/3's camera that still takes great photos, and I wouldn't get enough for it to justify selling it. I'm sure one of my grand kids will end up with it. 

I am now using nothing but m4/3's for my professional shooting -- no problems, and no aching back!

Have a Merry Christmas!

God Bless,

Greg

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boggis the cat
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Not much in the way of bargains
In reply to OlyChamp, 7 months ago

OlyChamp wrote:

So what of those sell offs? Well I have been monitoring our local auction sites with a certain degree of hope in picking up an Ex and glass for a bargain price. The reality is otherwise. Apart from one E620 and Kit Lenses (that has been asking too much), there have been no other E systems up for sale. None!! Plenty of mFT systems, but no E system units.

I am not sure how overseas representations on auction sites are going but here in NZ if folks are buying into the OM D EM-1 then they are also keeping their E systems, so far.

Yes, that does seem a bit odd.  The E-M1 seems to be selling through and the E-M5 is being carried by some of the 'big box' chains, so must sell -- perhaps this is all MicroFT users upgrading?

Your thoughts and experiences?

I sold an E-620 (maybe the one you saw) and E-M5.  I also plan on selling the E-330, and probably the E-510 and two E-1s.

That would leave me with the E-M1 and E-5, and two E-1s.  The E-1s are not strictly necessary, and arguably the E-5 isn't for my usage.  However, the E-5 still owes me some payback so I'd rather hang on to it -- and there is nothing wrong with it for most uses.  (It is heavy, though.)

My future plans are to also get the M.ZD 40-150 f/2.8 when that comes out, and likely the E-M1 replacement (or possibly another E-M1 when the price drops enough).  I am dubious about spending more on standard FT lenses, when the new PRO lenses seem to be easily good enough for my needs.

If you are after bargains, save your pennies until after Christmas when the 'credit card' panic hits and people start selling off their old toys.

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John Mason
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There will be a shortage of good used E-xxxx cameras
In reply to OlyChamp, 7 months ago

I think there will be a shortage for a time as people try to grab up some 'spares' to their current cameras.  Some of these folks will be birders that prefer the optical finder.  Some will be people that prefer the optical finder for other reasons.

Some will prefer the body size and balance you get with certain lenses and are very comfortable with their current exxx cameras.
Some will not be comfortable with the limitations of PDAF as implemented in the EM1 like it's inability to focus at all on horizontal lines.
Over time, as people get a chance to try out the EM1, borrow a friends, play with them at club meets, etc, this temporary demand will likely die out.  I had my EM1 and my E5 for a month before I decided to get the 2nd EM1 and say bye bye to the E5.  I did not see limitations for my 4/3 glass on the EM1, in fact, it worked better in final IQ and focused better and in lower light than on my E5.  The viewfinder was superior as well especially in dim light.  There was no compelling reason for my style of shooting to retain my E5.  (or E30 or E1 I still had - or Canon 5d3 for that matter  )
If an EM2 comes out with further improvements like cross type pdaf sensors, or the rest of the pro lens line comes out and has some awesome glass that works for birding or sports in CAF mode, the demand for the old bodies will probably drop a lot.  I would also expect an EM2 in the future to be about 24mp instead of 16mp with even greater dr and iso capability.

But since the EM1 means there is very officially no new E series cameras ever coming out, the Exxx series is now an instant collectible.  There will be a dwindling supply with a, for now, still decent demand.  That should help the prices for some time.  I hope it does.  I did pretty well on my trade up myself.

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simonvandermolen
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Re: Nearly Three Months
In reply to Dan, 7 months ago

Well, yes and no! The most I could insure it for was R1500 ($150) from South Africa. I valued the parcel as $500 thinking that it would attract less attention. It made it to customs in New York, but disappeared after that. USPS has been completely useless in solving the problem!!!! Anyway Ebay just refunded the buyer without giving me a chance to even appeal!! That is the LAST time I use Ebay and PayPal (same bunch of crooks) I can't even get my $150 insurance back as our local post office can't even get USPS to admit the parcel is missing! What really pi#$es on my battery is that the camera will probably get to the buyer who will get it now for free!!

Oh well, school fees I guess!!

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Olymore
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Re: And some other thoughts (When you shoot me be kind)
In reply to OlyChamp, 7 months ago

When DPReview reviewed the E5 they compared it to cameras like the Nikon D300/Canon 7d (and found it a bit lacking).
Those are not the top line cameras for Canon or Nikon.

Please note I'm not saying that professionals don't use them, just that they are not considered the professional cameras by their own companies.

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