Forum thoughts from a longest term Ex user

Started Dec 9, 2013 | Discussions
John Mason
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,633Gear list
Like?
Forum thoughts from a longest term Ex user
Dec 9, 2013

Hi folks.

I've been posting to this forum since it's inception.  I got one of the first E1 and went on to other E system cameras ending with the E5.

As we all know there is no E7 coming.  Olympus has officially deemed the EM1 as the spiritual E7.  For better or worse that's the simple fact.

So as I've now migrated to the new E7 which Olympus calls the EM1, where am I to post?

I still have some 4/3 lenses but as part of my system change out I've replaced my 50 f2 with the 60 f2.8 and the 14-35 SHG is now competing for camera body time with the much smaller and closer focusing yet similarly optically awesome 12-40.  
Some of the very best pro level lenses Olympus makes like the 75 1.8 - where are the uses of these pro level tools discussed?

If I complete my changeout of lenses to the new pro lens line where do I post?

Will this forum become the dead E system forum for antique camera owners?  Or will it expand to include OM-D line camera owners specifically?  I think simply adding OM-D cameras to Exxxx cameras solves the problem.

These EM1 owners are the same users that have posted here for years but have simply kept their systems current with the next generation of Olympus pro and semi-pro bodies.  The EM5 is positioned just as the E30 was and the EM1 is positioned just as the E5 was.

The key here is was vs is.  Is this going to be the forum for currently sold pro and semi-pro Olympus cameras?

I don't really want to post over on m4/3.  That's not my home of posting over a decade.

I've now seen a number of recent survey's that still don't ask the correct questions.  It's really simple, do we add OM-D camera users, the current E30 and E5 of today's Olympus product lines to this forum, or do we bury our heads in the sand and let this forum be the dead system Olympus forum.
That's my opinion and my question.
Thanks for listening.

-- hide signature --
 John Mason's gear list:John Mason's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 7-14mm 1:4.0 Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 14-35mm 1:2.0 SWD Panasonic Leica Summilux DG 25mm F1.4 +5 more
Olympus E-3 Olympus E-5 Olympus E-M1
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
Henry Caron
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,947
Like?
It is a sad day when a longest term Ex user even has to ask.
In reply to John Mason, Dec 9, 2013

John your commitment to Ex has been exceptional I see no reason for you to change your posting home.

Henry

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
John Mason
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,633Gear list
Like?
Thanks!
In reply to Henry Caron, Dec 9, 2013

I see you are also a veteran poster with 5875 posts to my mere 5453 posts!

-- hide signature --
 John Mason's gear list:John Mason's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 7-14mm 1:4.0 Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 14-35mm 1:2.0 SWD Panasonic Leica Summilux DG 25mm F1.4 +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Historicity
Regular MemberPosts: 321Gear list
Like?
Re: Forum thoughts from a longest term Ex user
In reply to John Mason, Dec 9, 2013

John Mason wrote:

Hi folks.

I've been posting to this forum since it's inception. I got one of the first E1 and went on to other E system cameras ending with the E5.

As we all know there is no E7 coming. Olympus has officially deemed the EM1 as the spiritual E7. For better or worse that's the simple fact.

So as I've now migrated to the new E7 which Olympus calls the EM1, where am I to post?

I still have some 4/3 lenses but as part of my system change out I've replaced my 50 f2 with the 60 f2.8 and the 14-35 SHG is now competing for camera body time with the much smaller and closer focusing yet similarly optically awesome 12-40.
Some of the very best pro level lenses Olympus makes like the 75 1.8 - where are the uses of these pro level tools discussed?

If I complete my changeout of lenses to the new pro lens line where do I post?

Will this forum become the dead E system forum for antique camera owners? Or will it expand to include OM-D line camera owners specifically? I think simply adding OM-D cameras to Exxxx cameras solves the problem.

These EM1 owners are the same users that have posted here for years but have simply kept their systems current with the next generation of Olympus pro and semi-pro bodies. The EM5 is positioned just as the E30 was and the EM1 is positioned just as the E5 was.

The key here is was vs is. Is this going to be the forum for currently sold pro and semi-pro Olympus cameras?

I don't really want to post over on m4/3. That's not my home of posting over a decade.

I've now seen a number of recent survey's that still don't ask the correct questions. It's really simple, do we add OM-D camera users, the current E30 and E5 of today's Olympus product lines to this forum, or do we bury our heads in the sand and let this forum be the dead system Olympus forum.
That's my opinion and my question.
Thanks for listening.

-- hide signature --

John Mason - Lafayette, IN
http://finestimages.zenfolio.com/favorites

John,

I haven't been on this forum as long as you but I've owned Olympus cameras since 1979.

I had problems with the logic of our situation and attempted to force a logical decision, i.e. to get the forum intro enforced or changed, but I was shot down at every turn.  This situation isn't logical but the net result or conclusion is that you and and every other micro-4/3 user can discuss micro or 4/3 matters on this forum and no one is going to prevent you.  Someone like me may wake up from time to time and say, "hey, what's going on here.  This isn't logical," but aside from that you can stay here and discuss either model -- at least that's what I have gotten from the authoritative powers that (seem to) be.

Interestingly the UK Olympus Discussion site I just joined is arranged differently.  There are forums where 4/3 & Micro 4/3 can be discussed together, but there are also sub forums, for example E1, E420, E600/E620, EM1, EM5 where presumably you would only go to discuss matters pertaining to a particular camera.  That arrangement would seem to preclude some of the problems we've had here, but then I've only belonged to that site for one day.

Lawrence

 Historicity's gear list:Historicity's gear list
Olympus E-1 Olympus E-3 Olympus E-330 Olympus E-420 Olympus E-500 +43 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
John Pucel
Contributing MemberPosts: 600Gear list
Like?
Re: Forum thoughts from a longest term Ex user
In reply to John Mason, Dec 9, 2013

I am a long time lurker who posts very little but reads on a regular basis for over fourteen years.  I have a lot of 4/3 equipment but have now moved over to the m4/3 realm with the  EM1.  While I have looked at the m4/3 forum, the people I have come to respect are on this forum and I plan to continue here.  I just filter out some of the non relative stuff like I always have over the years.

-- hide signature --

http://www.pbase.com/vor/profile
EM-1 E5 11-22 12-60 50/f2 150/2 7-14 18-180
50-200 (SWD) 70-300 EC 14 EC 20 EX25 FL FL50 FL36R HLD-4 HLD-7

 John Pucel's gear list:John Pucel's gear list
Olympus E-5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 50-200mm 1:2.8-3.5 SWD Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 90-250mm 1:2.8 Olympus Zuiko Digital 300mm 1:2.8 +12 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
skeys
skeys MOD
Senior MemberPosts: 1,942Gear list
Like?
OK, folks, hold on until, possibly, sometime tomorrow...
In reply to John Mason, Dec 9, 2013

I am locking this thread until John and I finish a PM discussion I began late this morning. Reason: I am trying to convince John to change what he states in his opening post. Why? Because his PM response to me was more detailed and, I hope something most Oly SLR members can agree with.

If I cannot convince John by sometime tomorrow, or sooner, I will delete this post of mine and unlock this thread.

Steve

-- hide signature --

My comments and opinions are my own. I am neither a staff member, nor a paid employee, of DPReview.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
skeys
skeys MOD
Senior MemberPosts: 1,942Gear list
Like?
Right now, you have a choice...
In reply to John Mason, Dec 10, 2013

I had hoped, via a PM discussion with John, to see if we could come to some agreement about a forum name change which had some limitation on which OM-D threads would be allowed in this forum.

Per our 'gentlemen's agreement, as Collin called it in another thread, the Oly SLR members now have a choice of accepting posts by E-M1 owners where those posts include 4/3's lenses or using the Complaint function to have a moderator move those E-M1 posts which do not include usage of a 4/3's lens.

If John's desire for a forum name change which includes "OM-D" cameras comes to fruition, there will be no choice. Posts by any, and all, OM-D owners will be on topic and not subject to being moved to the M4/3's forum.

In discussing this with carizi and mpeman, we have come to the conclusion it would be best to just remain neutral let this thread continue with no further input from us mods.

So have at it, everyone.

Steve

-- hide signature --

My comments and opinions are my own. I am neither a staff member, nor a paid employee, of DPReview.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Pete_CSCS
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,082Gear list
Like?
John's thoughts mirror mine.
In reply to John Mason, Dec 10, 2013

This forum at one time was one of the busiest on DPR. A few years ago, I started recording the number of new threads (for the heck of it) on the this and the Canon and Nikon forums because I began to notice how often the 1022 forum had 5 or 7 or 9 of the top 20 threads on DPReview. Many of these threads routinely topped off at 150+ back then. Now except for The Sunday Bird, that rarely happens anymore. For a camera company that had such a small percentage of market share, there was an awful lot of passionate, participates roaming around here.

The E-3 took so long to come out, we saw many of our forum members jump ship. The same happened waiting for the E-5 and the non-existent E-7. Some bought into m4/3rds and are still over there on their own forum. Others went to Nikon, Canon, Sony and Pentax mainly. Unfortunately losing Bootstrap Bill was also a big blow to our forum IMHO.

When I shot film (Konica) I had a choice of Manual or Shutter Priority. After owning a couple of simple point and shoots I bought a Kodak ultra-zoom before jumping into DSLRs. I thought I should get acquainted with PASM, exposure compensation, bracketing, C-AF, and many other features I didn't have on my old mostly mechanical SLRs. So I also was on the Kodak forum.

Well you know the rest. Kodak stopped building (outsourcing) cameras and the Kodak forum members swore allegiance to their trusty tried-and-true Kodaks as many here have done with their 4/3rds cams. But the desire for a newer camera with the latest technology creeps in and many members there went looking for a new system. And a new forum. Just like here. And I don't want to see that continue to occur here. We'll be dying a slow death.

So since Olympus has given us the E-M1 as the E-5 replacement, essentially the new E-7, I vote to have this forum continue (as it always has) to include all 4/3rds equipment (Oly, Pany, Sigma, etc.) but to now include the OM-D cameras (so far the E-M1 and E-M5). (Since many OM users became 4/3rds users, why not continue this with OM-D users?) And not just with a 4/3rds lens hanging off of it since most OM-D adopters will have a combination of lenses from both systems. This (m4/3rds) is the direction Olympus has taken and nearly everyone here has some Oly equipment.

Yes I bought an E-M1 a few days ago. Why not just post in the Micro Four Thirds forum? I'm sure I will some of the time but like Ben Herrmann, I find this forum more friendly and I would just assume spend more of my time over here. I could be wrong but I think some others feel the same.

Where does that leave OM-D cameras on the micro four thirds forum. I say you have to leave them there too since they are after all m4/3rds cameras. Is that a big deal posting the same camera on two different forums? I don't think so. These are our forums and we can make them anything we like (if most of you feel the same way). Does it harm anyone to do so? I don't think so.

What about other advanced m4/3rds cameras like the GH3 etc.? I don't know, I'm open to your thoughts on this.

-- hide signature --

'When nothing seems to help, I go and look at a stonecutter hammering away at
his rock perhaps a hundredf times without as much as a crack showing in it.
Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split in two,
and I know it was not that blow that did it,
but all that had gone before.'
-- Jacob Riis (1849 - 1914)
Stay Well,
Pete K.

 Pete_CSCS's gear list:Pete_CSCS's gear list
Kodak EasyShare Z612 Olympus E-500 Olympus E-M1 Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 14-42mm 1:3.5-5.6 Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Bobby J
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,765Gear list
Like?
Re: Forum thoughts from a longest term Ex user
In reply to John Mason, Dec 10, 2013

John, it seems to me that this forum has already adopted the EM and it's associated system.  I see no reason to change anything.  Most everybody who post's here is going to have elements of both systems...and this is less true on the M4:3 forum which also hosts Panasonic owners.

I think we should simply keep what's going on here....going.    I plan to add some m4:3 lenses (I just got my 12x40 yesterday) and to keep some of my old e-system lenses.  I'll also likely keep the E-5, at least for little while yet.

I view this forum as a "hybrid" forum.  Both systems, and as Oly points out..interchangeably.  I'm very interested to read about others experiences with the various elements of the two systems and I think it will only enrich our forum.  I'm sure I will learn from the adventures of others as I always do.

-- hide signature --

BJM

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
ROC124
Contributing MemberPosts: 773Gear list
Like?
Irony
In reply to John Mason, Dec 10, 2013

In this forum many have long said the 4/3 system is all about the excellent lenses, not so much the sensors in the body, or the bodies themselves. The demand for a 4/3 mount E7 has largely been about continuing the lenses as well, plus the desire by some for an optical viewfinder alternative.

This forum has also prided itself on emphasizing use of the 4/3 gear, and learning how to maximize 4/3 gear capability, through weekly photo threads. The posted photos are often used to show the perceived benefits of the great 4/3 lenses - the hallmark of the 4/3 system.

But today, with no new native 4/3 mount bodies coming, a few complain about this forum including posts about m4/3 bodies that can use those great 4/3 lenses.

The irony is that, for some, it is now about the bodies, NOT the lenses. Even our weekly photo threads show that. We have Cats, Monochrome, Sunday 'Scapes, Wednesday C&C, and 4/3 DSLR.  NONE require use of 4/3 lenses, and only the latter requires 4/3 bodies. There are no photo threads limited to 4/3 system lenses and bodies. Four of five weekly photo threads welcome any brand and type of gear.

Yet there seem to be more discussion threads relating to 4/3 system lenses than anything else (except maybe the E-1:-D). Even when m4/3 bodies are involved, this forum still revolves around 4/3 - mount lenses, but NOT to the exclusion of everything else.

I see this forum as about all things relevant to any aspect of the 4/3 - mount system. That can be very broad, and can provide a forum home to folks using m4/3 bodies with 4/3 lenses, but generally not those who don't use any 4/3 - mount gear.

Finally, it might be a good idea to have at least one weekly photo thread based on 4/3 - mount lenses!

-- hide signature --
 ROC124's gear list:ROC124's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL2 Olympus E-M1 Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 50mm 1:2.0 Macro Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 12-60mm 1:2.8-4.0 SWD Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4.0-5.6 +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Pete_CSCS
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,082Gear list
Like?
Hey Steve...
In reply to skeys, Dec 10, 2013

... how is that DPR coffee mug working for you?  Is it meeting your needs or are you considering jumping ship to a different brand of mug?  

-- hide signature --

'When nothing seems to help, I go and look at a stonecutter hammering away at
his rock perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it.
Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split in two,
and I know it was not that blow that did it,
but all that had gone before.'
-- Jacob Riis (1849 - 1914)
Stay Well,
Pete K.

 Pete_CSCS's gear list:Pete_CSCS's gear list
Kodak EasyShare Z612 Olympus E-500 Olympus E-M1 Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 14-42mm 1:3.5-5.6 Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Skeeterbytes
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,817Gear list
Like?
Re: Thanks!
In reply to John Mason, Dec 10, 2013

John Mason wrote:

I see you are also a veteran poster with 5875 posts to my mere 5453 posts!

-- hide signature --

Slacker!

Cheers,

Mr. 4k

-- hide signature --

"Whiskey is for drinking, digicams are for fighting over."
—Mark Twain

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Kim R
Forum ProPosts: 17,884
Like?
Re: Right now, you have a choice...
In reply to skeys, Dec 10, 2013

skeys wrote:

I had hoped, via a PM discussion with John, to see if we could come to some agreement about a forum name change which had some limitation on which OM-D threads would be allowed in this forum.

Per our 'gentlemen's agreement, as Collin called it in another thread, the Oly SLR members now have a choice of accepting posts by E-M1 owners where those posts include 4/3's lenses or using the Complaint function to have a moderator move those E-M1 posts which do not include usage of a 4/3's lens.

If John's desire for a forum name change which includes "OM-D" cameras comes to fruition, there will be no choice. Posts by any, and all, OM-D owners will be on topic and not subject to being moved to the M4/3's forum.

In discussing this with carizi and mpeman, we have come to the conclusion it would be best to just remain neutral let this thread continue with no further input from us mods.

So have at it, everyone.

Steve

Steve and all,

IMHO it is correct action for the MODs to remain neutral and this is my reasoning:

It sure beats chasing your tails and banging your heads against a wall!  LOL   

There is no stopping change. Evolution of our equipment and of the forums has happened and will continue to happen. OM-D equipment is here and like it or not it is an addition to and an extension of E-System's cameras and equipment and be assured it is and will be a part of this forum.

There is no valid reason to try to exclude any EM-1 posts on this forum. With the EM-1 and our ability to use standard 4/3ds lenses on it has brought a commingling of the two systems that are not separate and distinct. Now some folks will make the choice to remain 4/3ds pure and keep there E cameras and lenses only and that is their choice. Others will sell and move on (M.4/3 or other mfgs), many will use both 4/3ds and M.4/3ds too and that is their choice.

As for "per the our gentlemen's aggreement"... that is just ludicrous. With no offense nor disrespect intended toward Collin I say ~ "A gentleman's agreement does not necessarily exist just because someone declared that there was one". I question who does "our" include (in "our gentleman's agreement")? Not I and I have been a member of the forums for a long time. Logic tells me that "our" can and certainly only includes a very small segment of the entire community of the forum, just small click of people who may have responded to a trifling poll. A poll which I might add and which I am willing to bet that there was no consensus on. There will be no consensus.

As far as John M's question - "It's really simple, do we add OM-D camera users, the current E30 and E5 of today's Olympus product lines to this forum, or do we bury our heads in the sand and let this forum be the dead system Olympus forum?". That question has come much late and unneeded because there is no need for a name change (might not hurt though) or to ask "do we add OM-D users?" because that has already evolved with the introduction of a camera that uses both standard 4/3d and M.4/3d lenses.

Evolution: It happens and in the case of the 4/3ds system it came E-1 then to other E-cameras to numerous to mention and now that evolution continues with the M.parts of the system. That is the way it is. I have enjoyed the 4/3d's system and I will continue to enjoy it because it is not dead as some claim. I will continue to enjoy it's lenses on the E-1, E-3, E-5 and on the new M-1 too. I will not rule out adding (as they evolve) an M.lens or two to the system someday too. 

Right now I am going to go take some images with my evolving 4/3ds system - probably today I will start out with the 50-200mm on the M-1 but an E-xxx camera with lens will be on hand in my bag too.

_
( ' >
/ ) )
//'~ KimR

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jkrumm
Veteran MemberPosts: 8,269
Like?
How about a new weekly thread...
In reply to John Mason, Dec 10, 2013

Call it the 4/3 m4/3 thread, or something more poetic, where we can share 4/3 lens usage results with m4/3 and a few tips. I'd prefer it here than there, where threads vanish like stones in a lake.

-- hide signature --

John Krumm
Juneau, AK

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Garry Schaefer
Senior MemberPosts: 1,967Gear list
Like?
Re: Forum thoughts from a longest term Ex user
In reply to John Mason, Dec 10, 2013

This has always been my go to forum, even when I used the E-10, and later with the E-1 and E-5. Despite a few forays over to the micro 4/3rds forum since acquiring the E-M1, I still always check in here first thing each day. My preference is to continue in that vein, whether the point is about the E-M1 with a FT lens or with a mFT lens.

I agree with sentiments expressed above which would simply include the new flagship and its descedants to come, on this forum while leaving the option of also utilizing the other forum when desired.

-- hide signature --

Garry

 Garry Schaefer's gear list:Garry Schaefer's gear list
Olympus 12-40mm F2.8
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
RoelHendrickx
Forum ProPosts: 22,783
Like?
One Beautiful System - One Beautiful Forum
In reply to John Mason, Dec 10, 2013

As far as I am concerned, anybody wanting to talk about FT or µFT cameras is welcome in any of the two forums : the systems are headed towards a merger anyway.

Let's stop whining about forum politics and get back to gear and images.

Amen.

-- hide signature --

Roel Hendrickx
lots of images: www.roelh.zenfolio.com
my E-3 user field report from Tunisian Sahara: http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg/roel.html

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Kim R
Forum ProPosts: 17,884
Like?
Re: Irony
In reply to ROC124, Dec 10, 2013

Finally, it might be a good idea to have at least one weekly photo thread based on 4/3 - mount lenses!

-- hide signature --

Wait Bob. Would I be able to use a EM-1 to shoot for that thread?

Damn right I would... if I made that choice. 

-- hide signature --

_
( ' >
/ ) )
//'~ KimR
'The very fact that I find myself in agreement with you other minds perturbs me, so that I hunt for points of divergence, feeling the urgent need to make it clear that at least I reached the same conclusions by a different route.'
http://upload.pbase.com/image/73987816.jpg

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Kim R
Forum ProPosts: 17,884
Like?
Re: How about a new weekly thread...
In reply to jkrumm, Dec 10, 2013

jkrumm wrote:

Call it the 4/3 m4/3 thread, or something more poetic, where we can share 4/3 lens usage results with m4/3 and a few tips. I'd prefer it here than there, where threads vanish like stones in a lake.

-- hide signature --

John Krumm
Juneau, AK

Seems it exists ... doesn't need a name change. http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52644018

-- hide signature --

_
( ' >
/ ) )
//'~ KimR
'The very fact that I find myself in agreement with you other minds perturbs me, so that I hunt for points of divergence, feeling the urgent need to make it clear that at least I reached the same conclusions by a different route.'
http://upload.pbase.com/image/73987816.jpg

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jkrumm
Veteran MemberPosts: 8,269
Like?
Re: One Beautiful System - One Beautiful Forum
In reply to RoelHendrickx, Dec 10, 2013

Well, a merger might not be so great. It's just too busy over there already.

If we did ever merge, I would hope they could split the forum at the same time into a gear talk forum, and an image/technique forum. That way I could ignore the "what lens should I bring" threads more easily. : )

-- hide signature --

John Krumm
Juneau, AK

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jkrumm
Veteran MemberPosts: 8,269
Like?
Re: How about a new weekly thread...
In reply to Kim R, Dec 10, 2013

The long-running Wednesday C&C thread is great, but very different.

-- hide signature --

John Krumm
Juneau, AK

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads