Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero

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28to70
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Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero
7 months ago

http://takimag.com/article/mandela_what_the_obits_omit_jim_goad

"Little by little the look of the country changes because of the men we admire."

28to70
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Re: Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero
In reply to 28to70, 7 months ago

28to70 wrote:

http://takimag.com/article/mandela_what_the_obits_omit_jim_goad

"Little by little the look of the country changes because of the men we admire."

It's so quiet, it's creepy.

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LeRentier
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Re: Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero
In reply to 28to70, 7 months ago

28to70 wrote:

28to70 wrote:

http://takimag.com/article/mandela_what_the_obits_omit_jim_goad

"Little by little the look of the country changes because of the men we admire."

It's so quiet, it's creepy.

By the time Mandela started to blow up power stations and railroad tracks, the white apartheid regime had already killed tens and possibly hundreds of thousands of black people for merely protesting against restrictions put on them.
Mandela and his people did not kill people, they destroyed infrastructure.

He wanted the apartheid regime to give better treatment to the black people, even equality as the final goal.
We all know that black people who rise up against their white masters are always criminals who don't know what's good for them.

Mandela was just an uneducated lawyer of royal lineage, what did he know about his people ?
Obviously nothing because oral traditions, transmitted through the generations, can't be any good, can they ?

Did you know that Israel was one of the countries which gave tons of support to the apartheid regime in South Africa ?

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lol101
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Re: Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero
In reply to 28to70, 7 months ago

28to70 wrote:

http://takimag.com/article/mandela_what_the_obits_omit_jim_goad

"Little by little the look of the country changes because of the men we admire."

Did he fight the Apartheid violently? Sure did. I would have done the same had I lived in the same time and place.

Wouldn't you?

What would you do if Obama seized power, passed laws under which white people would be denied every fundamental rights, restricted to live and work in a given city, prohibited to travel anywhere else except under special permits and so on, and so forth,... would you just resign? Sit on you @ss behind your computer and call him a "Communist Terrorist" and be done with it?

Well he didn"t and then, after spending so many years deprived of his liberty, he came out and seized power and then what did he do? Did he kill all whites? Did he retaliate by emprisoning his former oppressors?

No.

He tried to bring peace to his country and get it to move forward. And he has succeded beyond what everyone was predicting (everyone at the time was predicting a racial conflict where white people would be violently expelled or even killed, just look at Zimbabwe).

So yes, Mandela is to be thanked for this, he saved many lifes and did more than anyone else for his country. That surely has to make him someone very special... even if he had Communists ideas at some point.

So, brave keyboard fighter 28to70, what would you have done if you had been in his shoes? Would you have been courageous enough to fight? Dedicated enough to win? Intelligent enough not to be vengeful?

You're not even 1% of the man he was.

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dh steffi
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Re: Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero
In reply to LeRentier, 7 months ago

Did you know that Israel was one of the countries which gave tons of support to the apartheid regime in South Africa ?

I can only imagine that many black and white south africans long back for the days of white rule. More peace and prosperity for all.

Same for the so-called occupied territories. The Israeli Army, harsh at times, stands for less corruption and surpression than the Hamas counterpart.

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lol101
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Re: Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero
In reply to dh steffi, 7 months ago

dh steffi wrote:

Did you know that Israel was one of the countries which gave tons of support to the apartheid regime in South Africa ?

I can only imagine that many black and white south africans long back for the days of white rule. More peace and prosperity for all.

Same for the so-called occupied territories. The Israeli Army, harsh at times, stands for less corruption and surpression than the Hamas counterpart.

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Windmills, just do it.

Oh no... 28to70, look what you did... you resurected the Windmills Nazi Granny...

I'll let you two love birds discuss how much "cleaner" life was under the Apartheid and how black, errrr, sorry, I meant "colored" folks were much better off then...

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The Jacal
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Re: Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero
In reply to lol101, 7 months ago

lol101 wrote:

28to70 wrote:

http://takimag.com/article/mandela_what_the_obits_omit_jim_goad

"Little by little the look of the country changes because of the men we admire."

Did he fight the Apartheid violently? Sure did. I would have done the same had I lived in the same time and place.

Wouldn't you?

What would you do if Obama seized power, passed laws under which white people would be denied every fundamental rights, restricted to live and work in a given city, prohibited to travel anywhere else except under special permits and so on, and so forth,... would you just resign? Sit on you @ss behind your computer and call him a "Communist Terrorist" and be done with it?

Well he didn"t and then, after spending so many years deprived of his liberty, he came out and seized power and then what did he do? Did he kill all whites? Did he retaliate by emprisoning his former oppressors?

No.

He tried to bring peace to his country and get it to move forward. And he has succeded beyond what everyone was predicting (everyone at the time was predicting a racial conflict where white people would be violently expelled or even killed, just look at Zimbabwe).

So yes, Mandela is to be thanked for this, he saved many lifes and did more than anyone else for his country. That surely has to make him someone very special... even if he had Communists ideas at some point.

So, brave keyboard fighter 28to70, what would you have done if you had been in his shoes? Would you have been courageous enough to fight? Dedicated enough to win? Intelligent enough not to be vengeful?

Whatever the situation, I wouldn't condone the killing of innocent people.

You're not even 1% of the man he was.

You don't even have 1% of the critical thinking that most others have.

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lol101
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Re: Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero
In reply to The Jacal, 7 months ago

The Jacal wrote:

lol101 wrote:

28to70 wrote:

http://takimag.com/article/mandela_what_the_obits_omit_jim_goad

"Little by little the look of the country changes because of the men we admire."

Did he fight the Apartheid violently? Sure did. I would have done the same had I lived in the same time and place.

Wouldn't you?

What would you do if Obama seized power, passed laws under which white people would be denied every fundamental rights, restricted to live and work in a given city, prohibited to travel anywhere else except under special permits and so on, and so forth,... would you just resign? Sit on you @ss behind your computer and call him a "Communist Terrorist" and be done with it?

Well he didn"t and then, after spending so many years deprived of his liberty, he came out and seized power and then what did he do? Did he kill all whites? Did he retaliate by emprisoning his former oppressors?

No.

He tried to bring peace to his country and get it to move forward. And he has succeded beyond what everyone was predicting (everyone at the time was predicting a racial conflict where white people would be violently expelled or even killed, just look at Zimbabwe).

So yes, Mandela is to be thanked for this, he saved many lifes and did more than anyone else for his country. That surely has to make him someone very special... even if he had Communists ideas at some point.

So, brave keyboard fighter 28to70, what would you have done if you had been in his shoes? Would you have been courageous enough to fight? Dedicated enough to win? Intelligent enough not to be vengeful?

Whatever the situation, I wouldn't condone the killing of innocent people.

Then you would never participate in any war. Let's hope you'll never have to. BTW, how many innocent people did Mandela kill?

You're not even 1% of the man he was.

You don't even have 1% of the critical thinking that most others have.

Critical thinking is easy, especially in hindsight: fools do it all the time and you and your friend are the best proof of it. Acting and making decisions when the odds are against you is more difficult.

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The Jacal
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Re: Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero
In reply to lol101, 7 months ago

lol101 wrote:

The Jacal wrote:

lol101 wrote:

28to70 wrote:

http://takimag.com/article/mandela_what_the_obits_omit_jim_goad

"Little by little the look of the country changes because of the men we admire."

Did he fight the Apartheid violently? Sure did. I would have done the same had I lived in the same time and place.

Wouldn't you?

What would you do if Obama seized power, passed laws under which white people would be denied every fundamental rights, restricted to live and work in a given city, prohibited to travel anywhere else except under special permits and so on, and so forth,... would you just resign? Sit on you @ss behind your computer and call him a "Communist Terrorist" and be done with it?

Well he didn"t and then, after spending so many years deprived of his liberty, he came out and seized power and then what did he do? Did he kill all whites? Did he retaliate by emprisoning his former oppressors?

No.

He tried to bring peace to his country and get it to move forward. And he has succeded beyond what everyone was predicting (everyone at the time was predicting a racial conflict where white people would be violently expelled or even killed, just look at Zimbabwe).

So yes, Mandela is to be thanked for this, he saved many lifes and did more than anyone else for his country. That surely has to make him someone very special... even if he had Communists ideas at some point.

So, brave keyboard fighter 28to70, what would you have done if you had been in his shoes? Would you have been courageous enough to fight? Dedicated enough to win? Intelligent enough not to be vengeful?

Whatever the situation, I wouldn't condone the killing of innocent people.

Then you would never participate in any war. Let's hope you'll never have to.

You're not even 1% of the man he was.

You don't even have 1% of the critical thinking that most others have.

Critical thinking is easy, especially in hindsight: fools do it all the time and you and your friend are the best proof of it. Acting and making decisions when the odds are against you is more difficult.

Killing innocents, that must've taken a lot of thought.

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lol101
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Re: Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero
In reply to The Jacal, 7 months ago

The Jacal wrote:

lol101 wrote:

The Jacal wrote:

lol101 wrote:

28to70 wrote:

http://takimag.com/article/mandela_what_the_obits_omit_jim_goad

"Little by little the look of the country changes because of the men we admire."

Did he fight the Apartheid violently? Sure did. I would have done the same had I lived in the same time and place.

Wouldn't you?

What would you do if Obama seized power, passed laws under which white people would be denied every fundamental rights, restricted to live and work in a given city, prohibited to travel anywhere else except under special permits and so on, and so forth,... would you just resign? Sit on you @ss behind your computer and call him a "Communist Terrorist" and be done with it?

Well he didn"t and then, after spending so many years deprived of his liberty, he came out and seized power and then what did he do? Did he kill all whites? Did he retaliate by emprisoning his former oppressors?

No.

He tried to bring peace to his country and get it to move forward. And he has succeded beyond what everyone was predicting (everyone at the time was predicting a racial conflict where white people would be violently expelled or even killed, just look at Zimbabwe).

So yes, Mandela is to be thanked for this, he saved many lifes and did more than anyone else for his country. That surely has to make him someone very special... even if he had Communists ideas at some point.

So, brave keyboard fighter 28to70, what would you have done if you had been in his shoes? Would you have been courageous enough to fight? Dedicated enough to win? Intelligent enough not to be vengeful?

Whatever the situation, I wouldn't condone the killing of innocent people.

Then you would never participate in any war. Let's hope you'll never have to.

You're not even 1% of the man he was.

You don't even have 1% of the critical thinking that most others have.

Critical thinking is easy, especially in hindsight: fools do it all the time and you and your friend are the best proof of it. Acting and making decisions when the odds are against you is more difficult.

Killing innocents, that must've taken a lot of thought.

What innocents? How many did Mandela kill??

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The Jacal
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Re: Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero
In reply to lol101, 7 months ago

lol101 wrote:

What innocents? How many did Mandela kill??

Nobody really knows, but he did admit to 156 acts of public violence.

One was too many.

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LeRentier
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Re: Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero
In reply to dh steffi, 7 months ago

dh steffi wrote:

Did you know that Israel was one of the countries which gave tons of support to the apartheid regime in South Africa ?

I can only imagine that many black and white south africans long back for the days of white rule. More peace and prosperity for all.

Same for the so-called occupied territories. The Israeli Army, harsh at times, stands for less corruption and surpression than the Hamas counterpart.

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Windmills, just do it.

Scrubbing the farmhouse floors and ensuring the masters don't have to toil in the fields must have been a very rewarding task for these black people.
How atrocious Mandela took slavery away from his brothers, they were so used to it.

You must be very unhappy he died in his own bed, in his own house and was not hanged or shot by the blankies

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veni vidi vomi

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LeRentier
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Re: Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero
In reply to The Jacal, 7 months ago

The Jacal wrote:

lol101 wrote:

What innocents? How many did Mandela kill??

Nobody really knows, but he did admit to 156 acts of public violence.

One was too many.

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"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." Richard Dawkins.

Peaceful protest and strike was labeled as public violence.

Why don't you read what Mandela had to say during his trial, it's worth it :

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/apr/23/nelsonmandela
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dh steffi
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Re: Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero
In reply to LeRentier, 7 months ago

His friendship and defence of Robert Mugabe and other black dictators speak another language.
Not the PR talk directed at the West, but his real inner voice.

Never did he speak out against the rape of women in his country.

We in the West, love to cherrish a very one-sided image of this person.

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lol101
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Re: Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero
In reply to The Jacal, 7 months ago

The Jacal wrote:

lol101 wrote:

What innocents? How many did Mandela kill??

Nobody really knows, but he did admit to 156 acts of public violence.

"Nobody really knows?" errr.... he stood trial for these acts wasn't he? What were the charges? How many counts of murders? How many injured?

You don't know? Oh sorry, "Nobody knows"?

Let me help you: 0

They blew up buildings and symbols of the government when no one was inside or near... what a carnage!! Bloody Communists!!

Sorry for the sarcasm but you and your friend make no sense.

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The Jacal
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Re: Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero
In reply to lol101, 7 months ago

lol101 wrote:

The Jacal wrote:

lol101 wrote:

What innocents? How many did Mandela kill??

Nobody really knows, but he did admit to 156 acts of public violence.

"Nobody really knows?" errr.... he stood trial for these acts wasn't he? What were the charges? How many counts of murders? How many injured?

You don't know? Oh sorry, "Nobody knows"?

Let me help you: 0

They blew up buildings and symbols of the government when no one was inside or near... what a carnage!! Bloody Communists!!

Sorry for the sarcasm but you and your friend make no sense.

Sorry to invoke Godwin's law, but exactly how many people did Hitler kill.

Oh, and please don't misquote me, makes you look worse than you're trying to make me look 

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lol101
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Re: Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero
In reply to The Jacal, 7 months ago

The Jacal wrote:

lol101 wrote:

The Jacal wrote:

lol101 wrote:

What innocents? How many did Mandela kill??

Nobody really knows, but he did admit to 156 acts of public violence.

"Nobody really knows?" errr.... he stood trial for these acts wasn't he? What were the charges? How many counts of murders? How many injured?

You don't know? Oh sorry, "Nobody knows"?

Let me help you: 0

They blew up buildings and symbols of the government when no one was inside or near... what a carnage!! Bloody Communists!!

Sorry for the sarcasm but you and your friend make no sense.

Sorry to invoke Godwin's law, but exactly how many people did Hitler kill.

I was not implying that he killed them with his own hands... how many people were killed in the attacks he helped to plan? Surely he must have been charged with these since he took responsibility for them and pleaded guilty...? Can't you just answer the question? You seem so sure he commited atrocities...

Many people were killed in the attacks Hitler planned... I can give you an estimate if you wish.

Oh, and please don't misquote me, makes you look worse than you're trying to make me look

What misquote? Didn't you write "Nobody really knows"? As for trying to make you look bad... you're doing that very well by yourself.

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Walking Dead
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Re: Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero
In reply to 28to70, 7 months ago

You post a link to a piece by Jim Goad. His level of writing is barely above the level of most of the conservatives on this forum.

If he were on this forum, he'd be called a TROLL.

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The Jacal
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Re: Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero
In reply to lol101, 7 months ago

lol101 wrote:

The Jacal wrote:

lol101 wrote:

The Jacal wrote:

lol101 wrote:

What innocents? How many did Mandela kill??

Nobody really knows, but he did admit to 156 acts of public violence.

"Nobody really knows?" errr.... he stood trial for these acts wasn't he? What were the charges? How many counts of murders? How many injured?

You don't know? Oh sorry, "Nobody knows"?

Let me help you: 0

They blew up buildings and symbols of the government when no one was inside or near... what a carnage!! Bloody Communists!!

Sorry for the sarcasm but you and your friend make no sense.

Sorry to invoke Godwin's law, but exactly how many people did Hitler kill.

I was not implying that he killed them with his own hands... how many people were killed in the attacks he helped to plan? Surely he must have been charged with these since he took responsibility for them and pleaded guilty...? Can't you just answer the question? You seem so sure he commited atrocities...

Have a gander at this.

Many people were killed in the attacks Hitler planned... I can give you an estimate if you wish.

an exact number? No, didn't think so.

Oh, and please don't misquote me, makes you look worse than you're trying to make me look

What misquote?

The one above.

Didn't you write "Nobody really knows"?

Yes, and you missed out the 'really'.

As for trying to make you look bad... you're doing that very well by yourself.

I beg to differ on that one.

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Bill Robb
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Re: Mandela: Another look at the man we call hero
In reply to The Jacal, 7 months ago

The Jacal wrote:

lol101 wrote:

What innocents? How many did Mandela kill??

Nobody really knows, but he did admit to 156 acts of public violence.

One was too many.

So you probably would go back in time and not have the French Revolution, or the American Revolutionary War, since these were acts of public violence, and so unnecessary. After all, Marie Antoinette gave everyone cake, and King George was very nice about ensuring there was tea for everyone.

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