No new E-PM or E-PL - what does it mean?

Started Dec 9, 2013 | Discussions
n3eg
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No new E-PM or E-PL - what does it mean?
Dec 9, 2013

Olympus has a new entry level E-M OMD coming next year, but no E-PL or E-PM.  What's going on?  The E-PL6 was for Japan only.  Is the E-P5 the only Pen update for the near future?  Has Oly put the Pen line on hold because it's unprofitable/not competitive with Panasonic/a slow seller?  Or is the PEN line as it now exists good for the future?

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honeyiscool
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Re: No new E-PM or E-PL - what does it mean?
In reply to n3eg, Dec 9, 2013

I don't see the point in updating either of those products, which are great, unless there is a new sensor. I would love 1/8000, 5-axis IBIS, and Wi-Fi, but then you have an E-P5.

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photofan1986
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Re: No new E-PM or E-PL - what does it mean?
In reply to honeyiscool, Dec 9, 2013

Well, all the Pen generations before had been using the same 12 megapixel sensor, but they upgraded the bodies nonetheless.

I would really like a smaller, better built EPM2, with metal body, a 4/3 aspect 3" touch screen, maybe tilting (but with a fine bezel like the Sony New C3), built-in Wifi, and a built-in flash.

While I find the E-PM2 and E-PL5 very capable cameras, I still think there is much room for improvement.

Oh and they should merge the E-PM2 and the E-PL5 into one camera.

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Guy Parsons
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Re: No new E-PM or E-PL - what does it mean?
In reply to n3eg, Dec 9, 2013

n3eg wrote:

Olympus has a new entry level E-M OMD coming next year, but no E-PL or E-PM. What's going on? The E-PL6 was for Japan only.

The E-PL6 is sold in Europe but not UK, also in Singapore/Malaysia and other parts of Asia, but not in Australia or USA. The extra features just do not appeal to me, see my E-PLx chart .

Is the E-P5 the only Pen update for the near future?

I reckon an E-PL7 will come in 2014, just my gut feeling. Economies of scale mean that the 5 axis IBIS should also appear in the E-PL7 is my guess.

Has Oly put the Pen line on hold because it's unprofitable/not competitive with Panasonic/a slow seller? Or is the PEN line as it now exists good for the future?

In my case the E-PL5 is perfect for me, I don't need any upgrades at all until they finally make a global shutter (when?) and that needs to deliver better quality than the current sensor and make the camera silent and shake free, also they need to deliver a rear LCD that can be seen clearly under all conditions (no camera on earth has that as yet).

Regards...... Guy

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rpm40
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Re: No new E-PM or E-PL - what does it mean?
In reply to Guy Parsons, Dec 9, 2013

I have also thought that the E-PM2 and E-PL5 are too similar- a tilt screen and command dial aren't enough difference to warrant having two different models. Maybe, if they can downsize the future e-pm3 to more closely compete with Panny's tiny new GM1, it would make sense, but not now.

Make the e-pm3 smaller as the #1 priority, to the extent possible. Shrink the grip and lose the hotshoe if needed to keep size and price down, and further differentiate the models. Drop the price $50.

The e-pl5 is a good camera for what it is, and making the e-pm3 more unique would help the next e-pl5 to make sense. Add an onboard flash and it should be good to go.

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The Jacal
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Re: No new E-PM or E-PL - what does it mean?
In reply to rpm40, Dec 9, 2013

rpm40 wrote:

I have also thought that the E-PM2 and E-PL5 are too similar- a tilt screen and command dial aren't enough difference to warrant having two different models. Maybe, if they can downsize the future e-pm3 to more closely compete with Panny's tiny new GM1, it would make sense, but not now.

Make the e-pm3 smaller as the #1 priority, to the extent possible. Shrink the grip and lose the hotshoe if needed to keep size and price down, and further differentiate the models. Drop the price $50.

Losing the hot shoe and accessory port would be a big mistake, in my opinion.

The e-pl5 is a good camera for what it is, and making the e-pm3 more unique would help the next e-pl5 to make sense. Add an onboard flash and it should be good to go.

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The Jacal
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Re: No new E-PM or E-PL - what does it mean?
In reply to n3eg, Dec 9, 2013

n3eg wrote:

Olympus has a new entry level E-M OMD coming next year, but no E-PL or E-PM. What's going on? The E-PL6 was for Japan only. Is the E-P5 the only Pen update for the near future? Has Oly put the Pen line on hold because it's unprofitable/not competitive with Panasonic/a slow seller? Or is the PEN line as it now exists good for the future?

I think that in some markets the EPM2 is too expensve, it's gone up to 599 euros here in France. This results in poor sales, therefore maybe a longer wait for a replacement.

If Oly could make the EPM3 look exactly like the concept model, but with a tilty or flippy outy screen, and the body not too small, I'd be a happy camper!!

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honeyiscool
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Re: No new E-PM or E-PL - what does it mean?
In reply to rpm40, Dec 9, 2013

rpm40 wrote:

I have also thought that the E-PM2 and E-PL5 are too similar- a tilt screen and command dial aren't enough difference to warrant having two different models. Maybe, if they can downsize the future e-pm3 to more closely compete with Panny's tiny new GM1, it would make sense, but not now.

Make the e-pm3 smaller as the #1 priority, to the extent possible. Shrink the grip and lose the hotshoe if needed to keep size and price down, and further differentiate the models. Drop the price $50.

The e-pl5 is a good camera for what it is, and making the e-pm3 more unique would help the next e-pl5 to make sense. Add an onboard flash and it should be good to go.

Really, though? I've had both and the two are not at all similar. They look the same on paper and their outputs are identical, but the two feel extremely different and I prefer the E-PM in some ways as it feels denser and smaller and easier to hold for someone with smaller hands, whereas the E-PL is awkward with larger lenses unless a bigger grip is attached.

I think if the E-PM line gained a tilt screen, that would be completely pointless as it would make the handling differences between PL and PM null.

Yes, Olympus could go the way of Panasonic and make E-PM3 or whatever it is compete with GM1, but I think, why bother? Is there really a market for two of those cameras, when IBIS will all but guarantee that Olympus will never have one that small? I think Olympus needs to stay in the same space with the E-PM lineup, as Panasonic has obviously abandoned it with the GX7, which isn't exactly a GX1 successor as it is a completely new camera. Judging by the fact that the GX1 is a much beloved camera, at the right price, E-PM is still a great form factor. Maybe add a built-in flash, though. That adds to the portability. A mode dial wouldn't hurt.

If anything, I think the E-PL needs to move more upscale and inherit some of the features of the E-P5, and the E-P5 should move further upscale and become a true rangefinder body w/ a built-in VF, to compete in the same space as the GX7.

Right now, we have:

Ultra-compact: GM1
Compact w/ Hot Shoe: GX1, E-PM2
Tilt Screen Compact: E-PL5 (mid-range), E-P5 (high-end), GF6 (low-end)
Rangefinder: GX7

It would make sense for Olympus and Panasonic to avoid competing with each other by keeping the GM and the E-PM lines separate. Meanwhile, it makes sense for Olympus to truly differentiate E-PL and E-P.

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DLBlack
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Re: No new E-PM or E-PL - what does it mean?
In reply to The Jacal, Dec 9, 2013

The Jacal wrote:

rpm40 wrote:

I have also thought that the E-PM2 and E-PL5 are too similar- a tilt screen and command dial aren't enough difference to warrant having two different models. Maybe, if they can downsize the future e-pm3 to more closely compete with Panny's tiny new GM1, it would make sense, but not now.

Make the e-pm3 smaller as the #1 priority, to the extent possible. Shrink the grip and lose the hotshoe if needed to keep size and price down, and further differentiate the models. Drop the price $50.

Losing the hot shoe and accessory port would be a big mistake, in my opinion.

The e-pl5 is a good camera for what it is, and making the e-pm3 more unique would help the next e-pl5 to make sense. Add an onboard flash and it should be good to go.

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The lack of a hotshoe is the reason I would never consider the GM1.
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DLBlack
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Re: No new E-PM or E-PL - what does it mean?
In reply to n3eg, Dec 9, 2013

Just partial information from a rumor site. Yes, an entry level camera is coming and most likely will be announced at CP+ at the end of January. The current E-PM and E-PL was introduce early this year. I would expect their replacements to be announced later this year.

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The Jacal
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Re: No new E-PM or E-PL - what does it mean?
In reply to DLBlack, Dec 9, 2013

DLBlack wrote:

Just partial information from a rumor site. Yes, an entry level camera is coming and most likely will be announced at CP+ at the end of January. The current E-PM and E-PL was introduce early this year. I would expect their replacements to be announced later this year.

Actually they were announced in September last year, so a new model is long overdue.

Maybe the long wait is for something really special.... 

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j.m.young
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Re: No new E-PM or E-PL - what does it mean?
In reply to honeyiscool, Dec 9, 2013

honeyiscool wrote:

rpm40 wrote:

I have also thought that the E-PM2 and E-PL5 are too similar- a tilt screen and command dial aren't enough difference to warrant having two different models. Maybe, if they can downsize the future e-pm3 to more closely compete with Panny's tiny new GM1, it would make sense, but not now.

Make the e-pm3 smaller as the #1 priority, to the extent possible. Shrink the grip and lose the hotshoe if needed to keep size and price down, and further differentiate the models. Drop the price $50.

The e-pl5 is a good camera for what it is, and making the e-pm3 more unique would help the next e-pl5 to make sense. Add an onboard flash and it should be good to go.

Really, though? I've had both and the two are not at all similar. They look the same on paper and their outputs are identical, but the two feel extremely different and I prefer the E-PM in some ways as it feels denser and smaller and easier to hold for someone with smaller hands, whereas the E-PL is awkward with larger lenses unless a bigger grip is attached.

I have had both also and I agree 100 percent. Two different cameras.

I think if the E-PM line gained a tilt screen, that would be completely pointless as it would make the handling differences between PL and PM null.

Agree again

Yes, Olympus could go the way of Panasonic and make E-PM3 or whatever it is compete with GM1, but I think, why bother? Is there really a market for two of those cameras, when IBIS will all but guarantee that Olympus will never have one that small? I think Olympus needs to stay in the same space with the E-PM lineup, as Panasonic has obviously abandoned it with the GX7, which isn't exactly a GX1 successor as it is a completely new camera. Judging by the fact that the GX1 is a much beloved camera, at the right price, E-PM is still a great form factor. Maybe add a built-in flash, though. That adds to the portability. A mode dial wouldn't hurt.

Mostly agree. To sell me a E-PM3 all thats need is the 5 Axis IBIS. The flash is not that important to me unless it can pull back to bounce off an 8 foot ceiling, Yes I know some will say it does not have enough power but my E-PL1 did just fine for me in that respect.

If anything, I think the E-PL needs to move more upscale and inherit some of the features of the E-P5, and the E-P5 should move further upscale and become a true rangefinder body w/ a built-in VF, to compete in the same space as the GX7.

We agree again...just don't drop the E-PM*

Right now, we have:

Ultra-compact: GM1
Compact w/ Hot Shoe: GX1, E-PM2
Tilt Screen Compact: E-PL5 (mid-range), E-P5 (high-end), GF6 (low-end)
Rangefinder: GX7

I have a GM1 and the E-PM2. Just not that much difference in size.

It would make sense for Olympus and Panasonic to avoid competing with each other by keeping the GM and the E-PM lines separate. Meanwhile, it makes sense for Olympus to truly differentiate E-PL and E-P.

Agree again but differentiate the E-PM, E-PL and E-P. Worried me leaving out the E-PM

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j.m.young
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Re: No new E-PM or E-PL - what does it mean?
In reply to The Jacal, Dec 10, 2013

The Jacal wrote:

If Oly could make the EPM3 look exactly like the concept model, but with a tilty or flippy outy screen, and the body not too small, I'd be a happy camper!!

Is an actual concept model of the E-PM3 available for viewing at any URL? I would love to see it or any other Pany or Olympus micro four thirds concepts. URLs would be appreciated.

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The Jacal
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Re: No new E-PM or E-PL - what does it mean?
In reply to j.m.young, Dec 10, 2013

j.m.young wrote:

The Jacal wrote:

If Oly could make the EPM3 look exactly like the concept model, but with a tilty or flippy outy screen, and the body not too small, I'd be a happy camper!!

Is an actual concept model of the E-PM3 available for viewing at any URL?

No, sorry, badly worded on my part.

I would love to see it or any other Pany or Olympus micro four thirds concepts. URLs would be appreciated.

I was referring to the 2009 concept model:

Sorry to get your hopes up.  

It has a kind of modernistic vibe to it, almost like a modern Yashica 35 MC:

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Gregm61
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Re: No new E-PM or E-PL - what does it mean?
In reply to n3eg, Dec 10, 2013

n3eg wrote:

Olympus has a new entry level E-M OMD coming next year, but no E-PL or E-PM. What's going on?

Why does anything have to be going on?

The E-PL6 was for Japan only. Is the E-P5 the only Pen update for the near future? Has Oly put the Pen line on hold because it's unprofitable/not competitive with Panasonic/a slow seller? Or is the PEN line as it now exists good for the future?

As much as we would all like every camera maker to replace every model every 12 months, that does not happen.

September, 2012. That's how old the two current models are. Barely a year.

The E-M5 was introduced February, 2012.

None of those models should be due any update before next year, maybe even early 2015. They are all still very viable models. It's not even 2014 yet. Why panic?

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s_grins
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Re: No new E-PM or E-PL - what does it mean?
In reply to n3eg, Dec 10, 2013

What does it mean?

It means that Oly wants to come out with some new bells and whistles, Android OS, WiFi, GPS, remote control... you can name yours

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broody
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Re: No new E-PM or E-PL - what does it mean?
In reply to s_grins, Dec 10, 2013

Remember Oly is restructuring its production lines... In the future they will be sharing internal parts with Sony. Maybe this delay is a result of that?

Anyway, the EPL5 and EPM2 are mostly fine. Only thing I would wish for is better ergonmics. Oh well, 5 axis IBIS too, but that is unlikely to trickle down from the $1000 models.

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mcshan
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Re: No new E-PM or E-PL - what does it mean?
In reply to n3eg, Dec 10, 2013

I hope they wait until they have a significant sensor upgrade. I don't think either series is outdated.

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n3eg
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Re: No new E-PM or E-PL - what does it mean?
In reply to n3eg, Dec 10, 2013

n3eg wrote:

Olympus has a new entry level E-M OMD coming next year, but no E-PL or E-PM. What's going on? The E-PL6 was for Japan only. Is the E-P5 the only Pen update for the near future? Has Oly put the Pen line on hold because it's unprofitable/not competitive with Panasonic/a slow seller? Or is the PEN line as it now exists good for the future?

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Looks like I got my answer on Four Thirds Rumors today.

http://www.43rumors.com/olympus-interview-at-dc-watch-focus-on-omd-and-more-professional-market/

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