"NEX" is Gone, so What do we Call It? - by Thom Hogan

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captura
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"NEX" is Gone, so What do we Call It? - by Thom Hogan
8 months ago

Again, this commentary with many thanks to Thom Hogan/Sans Mirror, who tries to undo the confusing Sony name & numbering schemes. Please open the link to view the charts and review the rest of the page.

Steve

"NEX" is Gone, so What do we Call It?

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/nex-is-gone-so-what-do-we.html

"Sony's marketing department seems a little behind all the new product action. At the A7/A7r introduction, Sony said that they will longer be any NEX-branded cameras in the future. Okay, but how about the present? By saying that NEX is gone as a brand, what does the customer think about all those NEX-3, NEX-5, and NEX-7 boxes sitting on dealers shelves?

Okay, I get the new product numbering scheme (ILC plus E or A for the type, then a number). Sort of. It appears as if Sony is taking the Canon/Nikon route of single digit numbers being the highest specified, four digit numbers being the low-end consumer. But right now we're still left with a mess all tangled up under the Alpha name:

  • E-mount mirrorless: A3000, NEX-3, NEX-5, NEX-6 NEX-7
  • FE-mount mirrorless: A7, A7r
  • Alpha mount crop sensor: A58, A65, A77
  • Alpha mount full frame sensor: A99

I had to go to Sony's site to make sure I was seeing all their cameras, but it appears that even Sony is confused: click on the "All Alpha Cameras" link and you get the A58, A65, A77, A99, and A3000! What? Where's the A7 and A7r, and/or why's the A3000 in there? Aren't the NEX cameras considered Alpha (and always have been)?

Now it could be that Sony's being disingenuous. By putting the A3000 E-mount camera in with the rest of the DSLRs that use the Alpha mount, it looks like they have a really low priced DSLR (at US$400), one lower priced than anything Canon or Nikon offer. Disingenuous doesn't build customer confidence or loyalty, though.

I know you want to sell cameras, Sony, but heading into the big selling season you've got a marketing mess on your hands. And I'm not so sure that the mess doesn't continue into the future, either, as Sony is claiming they have a new DSLR coming that's between the A77 and A99. Okay, what the heck are you going to name that, and which category does it really fit into?

Let me illustrate the problem with a table that everyone selling Sony cameras this Christmas is going to have to know by heart or else they're going to just confuse consumers trying to figure out what is going on in the Sony offerings:

As far as I can tell, that chart isn't anyplace on Sony site at the moment. This could have all been partially solved a different way:

  • AE3000, AE300 (nee NEX-3), AE500 (nee NEX-5), AE600 (nee NEX-6), AE700 (nee NEX-7)
  • AE7, AE7r
  • A58, A65, A77
  • A99

And the statements:

  • All E-mount lenses work on AE cameras (some with crop factor), all A mount lenses are usable with an adapter (some with crop factor).
  • All A-mount lenses work on A cameras (some with crop factor).

The only conclusion I can come to from the way the camera makers consistently obfuscate and confuse with their naming conventions is that they're trying to take advantage of something our brain does when presented with too much information it can't correlate: it asks more questions and tends to rely upon salesperson help to get out of the jam the confusing information puts them in. The salesperson, of course, may be motivated to sell you something other than you need (or what's actually still in stock).

The only other logical conclusion you could come to is that no one at these big consumer electronics companies can come up with a simple, meaningful naming system.

Oh, wait, there's one other conclusion you can make: no adult is clearly in charge, and the underlings are wreaking havoc with their conflicting decisions.

Oct 22, 2013 text and images © 2013 Thom Hogan -- All Rights Reserved // Follow us on Google+: Thom Hogan or on Twitter: @"

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EinsteinsGhost
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Dear Thom...
In reply to captura, 8 months ago

Again, this commentary with many thanks to Thom Hogan/Sans Mirror, who tries to undo the confusing Sony name & numbering schemes. Please open the link to view the charts and review the rest of the page.

Steve

"NEX" is Gone, so What do we Call It?

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/nex-is-gone-so-what-do-we.html

"Sony's marketing department seems a little behind all the new product action. At the A7/A7r introduction, Sony said that they will longer be any NEX-branded cameras in the future. Okay, but how about the present? By saying that NEX is gone as a brand, what does the customer think about all those NEX-3, NEX-5, and NEX-7 boxes sitting on dealers shelves?

Okay, I get the new product numbering scheme (ILC plus E or A for the type, then a number). Sort of. It appears as if Sony is taking the Canon/Nikon route of single digit numbers being the highest specified, four digit numbers being the low-end consumer. But right now we're still left with a mess all tangled up under the Alpha name:

  • E-mount mirrorless: A3000, NEX-3, NEX-5, NEX-6 NEX-7
  • FE-mount mirrorless: A7, A7r
  • Alpha mount crop sensor: A58, A65, A77
  • Alpha mount full frame sensor: A99

I had to go to Sony's site to make sure I was seeing all their cameras, but it appears that even Sony is confused: click on the "All Alpha Cameras" link and you get the A58, A65, A77, A99, and A3000! What? Where's the A7 and A7r, and/or why's the A3000 in there? Aren't the NEX cameras considered Alpha (and always have been)?

Now it could be that Sony's being disingenuous. By putting the A3000 E-mount camera in with the rest of the DSLRs that use the Alpha mount, it looks like they have a really low priced DSLR (at US$400), one lower priced than anything Canon or Nikon offer. Disingenuous doesn't build customer confidence or loyalty, though.

I know you want to sell cameras, Sony, but heading into the big selling season you've got a marketing mess on your hands. And I'm not so sure that the mess doesn't continue into the future, either, as Sony is claiming they have a new DSLR coming that's between the A77 and A99. Okay, what the heck are you going to name that, and which category does it really fit into?

Let me illustrate the problem with a table that everyone selling Sony cameras this Christmas is going to have to know by heart or else they're going to just confuse consumers trying to figure out what is going on in the Sony offerings:

As far as I can tell, that chart isn't anyplace on Sony site at the moment. This could have all been partially solved a different way:

  • AE3000, AE300 (nee NEX-3), AE500 (nee NEX-5), AE600 (nee NEX-6), AE700 (nee NEX-7)
  • AE7, AE7r
  • A58, A65, A77
  • A99

And the statements:

  • All E-mount lenses work on AE cameras (some with crop factor), all A mount lenses are usable with an adapter (some with crop factor).
  • All A-mount lenses work on A cameras (some with crop factor).

The only conclusion I can come to from the way the camera makers consistently obfuscate and confuse with their naming conventions is that they're trying to take advantage of something our brain does when presented with too much information it can't correlate: it asks more questions and tends to rely upon salesperson help to get out of the jam the confusing information puts them in. The salesperson, of course, may be motivated to sell you something other than you need (or what's actually still in stock).

The only other logical conclusion you could come to is that no one at these big consumer electronics companies can come up with a simple, meaningful naming system.

Oh, wait, there's one other conclusion you can make: no adult is clearly in charge, and the underlings are wreaking havoc with their conflicting decisions.

Oct 22, 2013 text and images © 2013 Thom Hogan -- All Rights Reserved // Follow us on Google+: Thom Hogan or on Twitter: @"

You would call them Sony Alpha as you were always supposed to. "NEX" was merely a model line within Alpha. Ever noticed that Sony never put NEX, rather alpha logo, on the front plate? That Sony Zeiss lenses were labeled ZA (Zeiss Alpha) even for E-mount?

Oh, and why in the world did you just create a new FE mount? In other words, you are creating your own mess.

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wictred
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Re: "NEX" is Gone, so What do we Call It? - by Thom Hogan
In reply to captura, 8 months ago

Correct me if I' wrong, but isn't the full name "Alpha NEX"?

SLR:

Sony Alpha xxx (Short: Axxx)

SLT:

Sony Alpha xx (Short: Axx)

Mirrorless:

Sony Alpha NEX x (Short: NEX-x)

The new entry level mirrorless is Sony Alpha 3000 now, and the FF is the Sony Alpha 7. No NEX anymore.

What's so strange about that?

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PVCdroid
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Re: "NEX" is Gone, so What do we Call It? - by Thom Hogan
In reply to captura, 8 months ago

It's an unnecessary mess Sony created for themselves and I still don't understand their motive. They could have just waited until new models were ready to release before announcing the end of NEX branding. We are still seeing articles and reviews of how great NEX is and people are shopping for cameras during the holiday season. Once they see that Sony is discontinuing NEX, they are most likely changing their minds. Sony may have thought they were increasing the potential for A7/R sales but that's out of the price range for those that were looking at NEX in the first place.

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captura
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Re: Dear Thom...
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, 8 months ago

I am not the author. You would more properly address your questions directly to Thom Hogan at Sans Mirror.

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Re: Dear Thom...
In reply to captura, 8 months ago

I am not the author. You would more properly address your questions directly to Thom Hogan at Sans Mirror.

Well, I addressed my post to the author, as a response to this thread. As the OP, if you agree or disagre with something I said, present your argument with specifics.

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captura
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Re: "NEX" is Gone, so What do we Call It? - by Thom Hogan
In reply to PVCdroid, 8 months ago

PVCdroid wrote:

It's an unnecessary mess Sony created for themselves and I still don't understand their motive. They could have just waited until new models were ready to release before announcing the end of NEX branding. We are still seeing articles and reviews of how great NEX is and people are shopping for cameras during the holiday season. Once they see that Sony is discontinuing NEX, they are most likely changing their minds. Sony may have thought they were increasing the potential for A7/R sales but that's out of the price range for those that were looking at NEX in the first place.

Not just Sony, but most of them are in trouble. Especially Olympus. Here's another article from Thom which puts a little more light on. It seems that Sony will be happy to settle for a very short-term gain of only a year orv two, with their new cameras.

Why the Sony A7 Doesn't Crush the Olympus E-M1 (misleading title)

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/why-the-sony-a7-doesnt.html

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wictred
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Re: "NEX" is Gone, so What do we Call It? - by Thom Hogan
In reply to PVCdroid, 8 months ago

PVCdroid wrote:

Once they see that Sony is discontinuing NEX, they are most likely changing their minds.

maybe the 3 people here on dpreview who keep arguing about it again and again.

for the rest of the world it probably makes no difference whatsoever.

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OpticsEngineer
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Re: "NEX" is Gone, so What do we Call It? - by Thom Hogan
In reply to captura, 8 months ago

"Oh, wait, there's one other conclusion you can make: no adult is clearly in charge, and the underlings are wreaking havoc with their conflicting decisions."

That's the idea that gets my vote (as regards to the naming scheme)

I think there is strong and capable leadership in charge of designing and making the cameras.   It is just the marketing team that doesn't know how to handle all this innovation.

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: "NEX" is Gone, so What do we Call It? - by Thom Hogan
In reply to PVCdroid, 8 months ago

It's an unnecessary mess Sony created for themselves and I still don't understand their motive. They could have just waited until new models were ready to release before announcing the end of NEX branding. We are still seeing articles and reviews of how great NEX is and people are shopping for cameras during the holiday season. Once they see that Sony is discontinuing NEX, they are most likely changing their minds. Sony may have thought they were increasing the potential for A7/R sales but that's out of the price range for those that were looking at NEX in the first place.

Sony did wait: launch of A7, A7r. Good way to start eliminating the confusion that has led many to believe NEX was to E-mount (and not an Alpha) as Alpha was to A-mount. These people also tend to think of E-mount as being distinct from FE-mount (which is another mess these people are promoting).

NEX, like SLT, was always an Alpha. Now, Sony wants to make sure people don't assume a separate identity for E-mount cameras...especially with two distinct lines that seem to be their goal.

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Re: "NEX" is Gone, so What do we Call It? - by Thom Hogan
In reply to wictred, 8 months ago

wictred wrote:

PVCdroid wrote:

Once they see that Sony is discontinuing NEX, they are most likely changing their minds.

maybe the 3 people here on dpreview who keep arguing about it again and again.

for the rest of the world it probably makes no difference whatsoever.

I don't know anyone that impulse buys a > $1,000 gadget, camera or whatever without researching first.

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: "NEX" is Gone, so What do we Call It? - by Thom Hogan
In reply to PVCdroid, 8 months ago

wictred wrote:

PVCdroid wrote:

Once they see that Sony is discontinuing NEX, they are most likely changing their minds.

maybe the 3 people here on dpreview who keep arguing about it again and again.

for the rest of the world it probably makes no difference whatsoever.

I don't know anyone that impulse buys a > $1,000 gadget, camera or whatever without researching first.

Impulsive people seem stuck on the name of a model line name... Some of the same ones also stuck on form over function (not surprisingly).

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DT200
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No, and you made Thom's point.
In reply to wictred, 8 months ago

wictred wrote:

Correct me if I' wrong, but isn't the full name "Alpha NEX"?

No.  "NEX" is no longer used.   FF is simply Alpha 7 or A7...or Alpha 99 or A99.

SLR:

Sony Alpha xxx (Short: Axxx)

And Sony no longer makes SLRs.

SLT:

Sony Alpha xx (Short: Axx)

It may be that Sony no longer makes SLTs.

Mirrorless:

Sony Alpha NEX x (Short: NEX-x)

NEX name is no longer in use.

The new entry level mirrorless is Sony Alpha 3000 now, and the FF is the Sony Alpha 7. No NEX anymore.

Correct.  There is a Sony Alpha 7 and Sony Alpha NEX 7.

What's so strange about that?

It did make sense a few years ago, but now it is a mess.

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: No, and you made Thom's point.
In reply to DT200, 8 months ago

wictred wrote:

Correct me if I' wrong, but isn't the full name "Alpha NEX"?

No.  "NEX" is no longer used.   FF is simply Alpha 7 or A7...or Alpha 99 or A99.

SLR:

Sony Alpha xxx (Short: Axxx)

And Sony no longer makes SLRs.

SLT:

Sony Alpha xx (Short: Axx)

It may be that Sony no longer makes SLTs.

Mirrorless:

Sony Alpha NEX x (Short: NEX-x)

NEX name is no longer in use.

The new entry level mirrorless is Sony Alpha 3000 now, and the FF is the Sony Alpha 7. No NEX anymore.

Correct.  There is a Sony Alpha 7 and Sony Alpha NEX 7.

What's so strange about that?

It did make sense a few years ago, but now it is a mess.

A person who thinks there is such thing as an FE mount shouldn't point elsewhere for a mess.

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DT200
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Re: "NEX" is Gone, so What do we Call It? - by Thom Hogan
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, 8 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

It's an unnecessary mess Sony created for themselves and I still don't understand their motive. They could have just waited until new models were ready to release before announcing the end of NEX branding. We are still seeing articles and reviews of how great NEX is and people are shopping for cameras during the holiday season. Once they see that Sony is discontinuing NEX, they are most likely changing their minds. Sony may have thought they were increasing the potential for A7/R sales but that's out of the price range for those that were looking at NEX in the first place.

Now, Sony wants to make sure people don't assume a separate identity for E-mount cameras

So they are doing away with the NEX name (which before made the distinction between E- and A- mounts) and lumping them in with cameras that can't use their lenses. Great.   No confusrion there.   E-mount cameras should not have a seperate identity because we all know any Alpha camera can use e-mount lenses...oh wait.

Can you go back to telling everyone the old NEX menus are the best ever.

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Re: "NEX" is Gone, so What do we Call It? - by Thom Hogan
In reply to DT200, 8 months ago

Many people just buy a camera with a kit lens and use it for years until it packs up.

They probably don't even know what their current camera is called.

They don't read photography magazines.

They certainly don't populate forums with their tiresome prattle

Its only us photography nerds that get excited by such minutiae!

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Jerry R
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It seems Sony is stuck with two mounts, A & E. They have FF & crop sensor
In reply to captura, 8 months ago

It seems Sony is stuck with two mounts, A & E. They have FF & crop sensor cameras with both mounts.

Its their problem.

-- hide signature --

Canon A2E, Sony R1, Panny TZ5, NEX C3 & 5R + Zeiss 24mm E Lens, Nikon D5100

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: "NEX" is Gone, so What do we Call It? - by Thom Hogan
In reply to DT200, 8 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

It's an unnecessary mess Sony created for themselves and I still don't understand their motive. They could have just waited until new models were ready to release before announcing the end of NEX branding. We are still seeing articles and reviews of how great NEX is and people are shopping for cameras during the holiday season. Once they see that Sony is discontinuing NEX, they are most likely changing their minds. Sony may have thought they were increasing the potential for A7/R sales but that's out of the price range for those that were looking at NEX in the first place.

Now, Sony wants to make sure people don't assume a separate identity for E-mount cameras

So they are doing away with the NEX name (which before made the distinction between E- and A- mounts) and lumping them in with cameras that can't use their lenses. Great.   No confusrion there.   E-mount cameras should not have a seperate identity because we all know any Alpha camera can use e-mount lenses...oh wait.

Can you go back to telling everyone the old NEX menus are the best ever.

Your bitterness aside, NEX was never meant to have an identity separate from Alpha. This was a mess created such peopls who are now inclined to create another mess (and blame elsewhere for their own issues): FE-mount. Sorry Thom, and those of you who believe in such tantrums, but there is no such thing as FE-mount. It is E-mount.

And E-mount versus A-mount is not about identity, that is the point of "Alpha" brand for interchangeable lens cameras cs "Cybershot" for fixed lens. Calling NEX a brand separate from Alpha is the same as calling RX a brand separate from Cybershot.

And E-mount has been chosen to be offered in two flavors: small, slim and trim(c) that so far sold as NEX line and DSLR form.

The only mess Sony could create is mix and match the two forms with model numbers... Calling NEX-6 replacement that has the small, slim and trim(c) form factor as A6000 would be that. Calling it A6 would be perfect.

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captura
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Re: Dear Thom...
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, 8 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

I am not the author. You would more properly address your questions directly to Thom Hogan at Sans Mirror.

Well, I addressed my post to the author, as a response to this thread. As the OP, if you agree or disagre with something I said, present your argument with specifics.

Does Thom Hogan read this thread? As for me, I don't care.

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Re: Dear Thom...
In reply to captura, 8 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

I am not the author. You would more properly address your questions directly to Thom Hogan at Sans Mirror.

Well, I addressed my post to the author, as a response to this thread. As the OP, if you agree or disagre with something I said, present your argument with specifics.

Does Thom Hogan read this thread? As for me, I don't care.

What you don't care about is having a conversation.

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