Astonishing ISO performance from Fuji X-E2 (comparing to Df)

Started 4 months ago | Discussions
Lordsegan
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Astonishing ISO performance from Fuji X-E2 (comparing to Df)
4 months ago

I just bought a Nikon Df, and I am 99% sure I am going to keep it because I have a ton of Nikon lenses and just like the camera.

However, I was utterly shocked to see that the 6400 ISO performance is almost literally matched 1:1 by the Fuji X-E2 in the dpreview high ISO scene: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympus-om-d-e-m1/17 (I tweaked the settings for RAW and to display the Fuji and Df).

Makes me wonder a bit.... if someone made a FF sensor with the Fuji technology what might be possible....

Does the Nikon have some advantage in post that the Fuji doesn't have?

Fujifilm X-E2 Nikon Df
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philharris
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Re: Astonishing ISO performance from Fuji X-E2 (comparing to Df)
In reply to Lordsegan, 4 months ago

Hmm, either you looked at the wrong cameras by mistake or I think a visit to the opticians is in order.

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InTheMist
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Re: Astonishing ISO performance from Fuji X-E2 (comparing to Df)
In reply to Lordsegan, 4 months ago

Yeah, I can't imagine what you're looking at either.

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It's more important how an image looks as a thumbnail than how it looks at 100%.
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Horshack
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XE-2 isn't even the best APS-C sensor
In reply to Lordsegan, 4 months ago

Let alone being able to compete with the lowest-noise FF sensor available. The D7100 outperforms the XE-1/XE-2 at High ISO: XE-1 vs D7100.

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anotherMike
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Re: Astonishing ISO performance from Fuji X-E2 (comparing to Df)
In reply to Lordsegan, 4 months ago

Astonishing? Um - not even close man. Take a look at the color patches. The fuji high ISO, frankly, is miserable at 3200 and above. The DF kills it.

-m

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Lordsegan
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Re: Astonishing ISO performance from Fuji X-E2 (comparing to Df)
In reply to Lordsegan, 4 months ago

OK.. I am going to look again...

lol.. I am willing to be wrong.

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Lordsegan
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Re: Astonishing ISO performance from Fuji X-E2 (comparing to Df)
In reply to philharris, 4 months ago

philharris wrote:

Hmm, either you looked at the wrong cameras by mistake or I think a visit to the opticians is in order.

I looked again.

The Nikon is certainly a little bit better. The crop that you posted is probably the single most significant area of difference (maybe a focus difference actually).

Let me direct you attention to the sponge in the upper left. It is 95% similar. I still think it is astonishing that a tiny $1000 camera can compete with the Df. They are certainly in the same "class" by my eye.

Please tell me in detail (I want to learn) how/if I am wrong.

EDIT: The other place I can see a major difference is the skin of the man and woman in the "dark" area on the left. The Fuji looks *very* blotchy where the Nikon retains normal grain.

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Lordsegan
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Re: Astonishing ISO performance from Fuji X-E2 (comparing to Df)
In reply to Lordsegan, 4 months ago

Here is the area where the Fuji looks like it almost edges the Nikon.

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hectorsm
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Re: Astonishing ISO performance from Fuji X-E2 (comparing to Df)
In reply to Lordsegan, 4 months ago

To me the Nikon DF look better.  Lower noise and more detail.

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dustyj
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Re: Astonishing ISO performance from Fuji X-E2 (comparing to Df)
In reply to hectorsm, 4 months ago

The DF is definitely better but we're definitely reaching the point where DX sensors are holding their own vs the best FX sensors. The gap is closing! I hoping this inspires nikon and canon to be innovative and give us a reason to continue spending big money on their products.
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InTheMist
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Re: Astonishing ISO performance from Fuji X-E2 (comparing to Df)
In reply to hectorsm, 4 months ago

hectorsm wrote:

To me the Nikon DF look better. Lower noise and more detail.

I see the same.

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The_Suede
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Check exposure values
In reply to Lordsegan, 4 months ago

The X-E2 does the same as most Fujifilms, Olympuses and some others - use a loophole in the definition of ISO values that allow them to state higher nominal values than others.

If you want to compare, compare with constant light and constant settings. In this case it means that the X-E2 needs ISO10,000 (reported) to get the same shutter speeds as the D-f gets at ISO6400 (reported).

So, if you want reality, compare the Fujifilm ISO12800 result to the D-f ISO6400 result. They're a lot closer in real-life. Those values are what you'd have to use if you wanted to get 1/20s or better at F5.6 in a certain light, with the cameras you compared.

The X-E2 is still good, but not really that close.

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Lordsegan
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Re: Check exposure values
In reply to The_Suede, 4 months ago

The_Suede wrote:

The X-E2 does the same as most Fujifilms, Olympuses and some others - use a loophole in the definition of ISO values that allow them to state higher nominal values than others.

If you want to compare, compare with constant light and constant settings. In this case it means that the X-E2 needs ISO10,000 (reported) to get the same shutter speeds as the D-f gets at ISO6400 (reported).

So, if you want reality, compare the Fujifilm ISO12800 result to the D-f ISO6400 result. They're a lot closer in real-life. Those values are what you'd have to use if you wanted to get 1/20s or better at F5.6 in a certain light, with the cameras you compared.

The X-E2 is still good, but not really that close.

Thank you. This helps explain what I am seeing.

I am still very very impressed with the Fuji. But I will get back to stroking my Df now...

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SamG10
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Re: Astonishing ISO performance from Fuji X-E2 (comparing to Df)
In reply to Lordsegan, 4 months ago

Lordsegan wrote:

philharris wrote:

Hmm, either you looked at the wrong cameras by mistake or I think a visit to the opticians is in order.

I looked again.

The Nikon is certainly a little bit better. The crop that you posted is probably the single most significant area of difference (maybe a focus difference actually).

Let me direct you attention to the sponge in the upper left. It is 95% similar. I still think it is astonishing that a tiny $1000 camera can compete with the Df. They are certainly in the same "class" by my eye.

Please tell me in detail (I want to learn) how/if I am wrong.

EDIT: The other place I can see a major difference is the skin of the man and woman in the "dark" area on the left. The Fuji looks *very* blotchy where the Nikon retains normal grain.

Phrases like "can compete with the Df"  and "certainly in the same class"  are not only stretching it but perhaps judging the quality comparison very poorly.

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philharris
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Re: Astonishing ISO performance from Fuji X-E2 (comparing to Df)
In reply to Lordsegan, 4 months ago

Lordsegan wrote:

Here is the area where the Fuji looks like it almost edges the Nikon.

Well, it's a sponge.

If you ignore the sponge, which is almost the perfect subject to disguise sensor noise, and concentrate on the wooden shafts of the two brushes you will notice a huge difference.

The suggestion that the image from the Fuji is even in the same ball park is a bit daft I'm afraid.

I'm glad you are enjoying your Df, I got mine two days ago and have not been as excited by a new Nikon since I got my F2 in 1974, a truly fabulous camera.

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Astrophotographer 10
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Re: Check exposure values
In reply to Lordsegan, 4 months ago

Fuji XE1 does have great high ISO performance but its about a stop or so worse than D800E. DF should be a stop better than D800E.

As mentioned in the previous post if you look up ISO in Wikipedia it states there are several methods of calculating that and the Organisation allows manufacturers to chose which one they use.

Fuji clearly uses a method that overstates the ISO. I have used my XE1 in this way for about a year and ISO6400 is really only about a Nikon ISO4000 at a guess.

Sony and Nikon ISO seem to be the same.

Greg.

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DonSantos
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Re: Check exposure values
In reply to Astrophotographer 10, 4 months ago

Astrophotographer 10 wrote:

DF should be a stop better than D800E.

Oh really?  I never heard that claim before.

Are you saying that x-e2 is 2 stops worse than df?

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Lordsegan
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Re: Check exposure values
In reply to DonSantos, 4 months ago

DonSantos wrote:

Astrophotographer 10 wrote:

DF should be a stop better than D800E.

Oh really? I never heard that claim before.

Are you saying that x-e2 is 2 stops worse than df?

Some people are saying the Df is about 1/3 a stop better than the D4. This is mostly pure internet speculation, but based on that, I think some are surmising it may be a full stop better than the D800. It's probably less than that in most use scenarios. I think someone in another thread said it best when they said the D800 falls apart a little when you underexpose it.

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