How to track a toddler's movement with X-E2

Started 10 months ago | Discussions
a l b e r t
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How to track a toddler's movement with X-E2
10 months ago

Turn Face Detection on. For indoor shots with bounced flash (EF-20 + Omnibounce diffuser), I set shutter speed to 1/180. For outdoor, you may want to set it higher (1/250) if fill flash is not required. I set AutoISO 800 (limit the ISO the camera can use so I get more flash output vs ambient at night). Aperture set to Auto if this is daytime, but at least f/2.8 if it is at night to give it enough DoF. Set AF-C. For the test, I was using the XF23 1.4 lens.

Now when I half press the shutter release button, the camera will continue AF on the face and you can fire away when you got the expression on the face you want to capture. Flash exposure is accurate most of the time as it uses the face as reference.

Got a number of keepers that way. Can't do that with X-E1 and even with the D3s, tracking is still difficult (tracked the wrong things at times).

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Re: How to track a toddler's movement with X-E2
In reply to a l b e r t, 10 months ago

Interesting. Ill have to give that a try. Thanks

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Graham Hill
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Re: How to track a toddler's movement with X-E2
In reply to a l b e r t, 10 months ago

a l b e r t wrote:

Turn Face Detection on. For indoor shots with bounced flash (EF-20 + Omnibounce diffuser), I set shutter speed to 1/180. For outdoor, you may want to set it higher (1/250) if fill flash is not required. I set AutoISO 800 (limit the ISO the camera can use so I get more flash output vs ambient at night). Aperture set to Auto if this is daytime, but at least f/2.8 if it is at night to give it enough DoF. Set AF-C. For the test, I was using the XF23 1.4 lens.

Now when I half press the shutter release button, the camera will continue AF on the face and you can fire away when you got the expression on the face you want to capture. Flash exposure is accurate most of the time as it uses the face as reference.

Got a number of keepers that way. Can't do that with X-E1 and even with the D3s, tracking is still difficult (tracked the wrong things at times).

Tracking a toddler is difficult with a Nikon D3s??  You do realize photographers shoot/shot pro sports with this camera right?

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dual12
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Re: How to track a toddler's movement with X-E2
In reply to Graham Hill, 10 months ago

Unlike you, he uses the D3s in that application, so I'm going with what he says.

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a l b e r t
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Re: How to track a toddler's movement with X-E2
In reply to Graham Hill, 10 months ago

Tracking a toddler is difficult with a Nikon D3s?? You do realize photographers shoot/shot pro sports with this camera right?

An adult can run very fast, but a toddler is more nimble and can turn his/her head or body faster than an adult can.

I have a 4-yr old that runs around (back and forth, left and right), not just like pro football running across the field.  He can flip his body and move up and down the sofa very quickly.

Now with the X-E2 + AF-C, I can now track his movement much better, something the X-E1 simply cannot do.

But I should have mentioned that I was using D3s with the Nikon 50 1.4G lens.  This lens is not fast in terms of AF performance.  If I were to use Nikon 24-70 2.8, then AF tracking is much better in this regard.

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Graham Hill
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Re: How to track a toddler's movement with X-E2
In reply to a l b e r t, 10 months ago

a l b e r t wrote:

Tracking a toddler is difficult with a Nikon D3s?? You do realize photographers shoot/shot pro sports with this camera right?

An adult can run very fast, but a toddler is more nimble and can turn his/her head or body faster than an adult can.

You havent seen an NFL game.  Trust me, the athletes there can out run/out perform a toddler.

I have a 4-yr old that runs around (back and forth, left and right), not just like pro football running across the field. He can flip his body and move up and down the sofa very quickly.

I know as I have two kids, both of whom have gone through that stage.  At the time I photographed them with an ancient Canon 350D and recall having no problems at all getting images.

Now with the X-E2 + AF-C, I can now track his movement much better, something the X-E1 simply cannot do.

My comments were not directed at your X-E2 methods.

But I should have mentioned that I was using D3s with the Nikon 50 1.4G lens. This lens is not fast in terms of AF performance. If I were to use Nikon 24-70 2.8, then AF tracking is much better in this regard.

Your comment implied that the D3S could not track a toddler, which I find impossible to believe.

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JohnNewman
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Re: How to track a toddler's movement with X-E2
In reply to a l b e r t, 10 months ago

a l b e r t wrote:

Turn Face Detection on. For indoor shots with bounced flash (EF-20 + Omnibounce diffuser), I set shutter speed to 1/180. For outdoor, you may want to set it higher (1/250) if fill flash is not required. I set AutoISO 800 (limit the ISO the camera can use so I get more flash output vs ambient at night). Aperture set to Auto if this is daytime, but at least f/2.8 if it is at night to give it enough DoF. Set AF-C. For the test, I was using the XF23 1.4 lens.

Now when I half press the shutter release button, the camera will continue AF on the face and you can fire away when you got the expression on the face you want to capture. Flash exposure is accurate most of the time as it uses the face as reference.

Got a number of keepers that way. Can't do that with X-E1 and even with the D3s, tracking is still difficult (tracked the wrong things at times).

Thanks Albert. Very useful.  I've had problems with my young granddaughter and getting well focused shots with my X-E1, to the extent that I'm just about to buy a traditional SLR, which would be a shame as I love the Fuji output.

I'm going to have to try and get my hands on the X- E2 to try out. Leaving aside the flash, does this method (face detection and AFC) work with video, do you know?

Now to find a dealer who will let me borrow an X- E2 for a day 😄

Thanks again,

John

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JJ1983
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Re: How to track a toddler's movement with X-E2
In reply to Graham Hill, 10 months ago

Graham Hill wrote:

a l b e r t wrote:

Tracking a toddler is difficult with a Nikon D3s?? You do realize photographers shoot/shot pro sports with this camera right?

An adult can run very fast, but a toddler is more nimble and can turn his/her head or body faster than an adult can.

You havent seen an NFL game. Trust me, the athletes there can out run/out perform a toddler.

I have a 4-yr old that runs around (back and forth, left and right), not just like pro football running across the field. He can flip his body and move up and down the sofa very quickly.

I know as I have two kids, both of whom have gone through that stage. At the time I photographed them with an ancient Canon 350D and recall having no problems at all getting images.

Now with the X-E2 + AF-C, I can now track his movement much better, something the X-E1 simply cannot do.

My comments were not directed at your X-E2 methods.

But I should have mentioned that I was using D3s with the Nikon 50 1.4G lens. This lens is not fast in terms of AF performance. If I were to use Nikon 24-70 2.8, then AF tracking is much better in this regard.

Your comment implied that the D3S could not track a toddler, which I find impossible to believe.

Why are you so defensive about your camera?

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Graham Hill
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Re: How to track a toddler's movement with X-E2
In reply to JJ1983, 10 months ago

JJ1983 wrote:

Graham Hill wrote:

a l b e r t wrote:

Tracking a toddler is difficult with a Nikon D3s?? You do realize photographers shoot/shot pro sports with this camera right?

An adult can run very fast, but a toddler is more nimble and can turn his/her head or body faster than an adult can.

You havent seen an NFL game. Trust me, the athletes there can out run/out perform a toddler.

I have a 4-yr old that runs around (back and forth, left and right), not just like pro football running across the field. He can flip his body and move up and down the sofa very quickly.

I know as I have two kids, both of whom have gone through that stage. At the time I photographed them with an ancient Canon 350D and recall having no problems at all getting images.

Now with the X-E2 + AF-C, I can now track his movement much better, something the X-E1 simply cannot do.

My comments were not directed at your X-E2 methods.

But I should have mentioned that I was using D3s with the Nikon 50 1.4G lens. This lens is not fast in terms of AF performance. If I were to use Nikon 24-70 2.8, then AF tracking is much better in this regard.

Your comment implied that the D3S could not track a toddler, which I find impossible to believe.

Why are you so defensive about your camera?

You are mistaken.  I don't own a Nikon DS3.  I just know sports photographers who used it all the time to track something a bit faster than a toddler.

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Re: How to track a toddler's movement with X-E2
In reply to a l b e r t, 10 months ago

a l b e r t wrote:

Turn Face Detection on. For indoor shots with bounced flash (EF-20 + Omnibounce diffuser), I set shutter speed to 1/180. For outdoor, you may want to set it higher (1/250) if fill flash is not required. I set AutoISO 800 (limit the ISO the camera can use so I get more flash output vs ambient at night). Aperture set to Auto if this is daytime, but at least f/2.8 if it is at night to give it enough DoF. Set AF-C. For the test, I was using the XF23 1.4 lens.

Now when I half press the shutter release button, the camera will continue AF on the face and you can fire away when you got the expression on the face you want to capture. Flash exposure is accurate most of the time as it uses the face as reference.

Got a number of keepers that way. Can't do that with X-E1 and even with the D3s, tracking is still difficult (tracked the wrong things at times).

Helpful tips, I had an X-E2 for a few days but never tested the tracking coupled with face detect.

Do you think it would perform as well with the (slower?) 35mm?

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joema1
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Re: How to track a toddler's movement with X-E2
In reply to Graham Hill, 10 months ago

Graham Hill wrote:

a l b e r t wrote:

Got a number of keepers that way. Can't do that with X-E1 and even with the D3s, tracking is still difficult (tracked the wrong things at times).

Tracking a toddler is difficult with a Nikon D3s?? You do realize photographers shoot/shot pro sports with this camera right?

He's referring to camera auto-tracking of *lateral* movement based on subject recognition. The D3S has poor ability for that, and sports photographers rarely use that mode.

DSLRs have great AF tracking -- but mainly predictive fore/aft tracking of subjects moving toward or away from the camera. Lateral tracking to maintain the AF point is usually done manually. The OP was talking the X-E2's AF auto-tracking of lateral movement based on subject/face recognition. The ability of a pro photographer to *manually* keep a DSLR AF point on a rapidly-moving subject is unrelated to the OP's point.

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Re: How to track a toddler's movement with X-E2
In reply to dual12, 10 months ago

dual12 wrote:

Unlike you, he uses the D3s in that application, so I'm going with what he says.

Your comment is absurd.

At the same time the D3S AF system is so flexible it is a challenge to select the exact set of AF menu parameters required for  reliable action photography focusing. There are numerous articles available to get you started. The good news is once you have invested the time to set the AF system up properly, the menu parameters can be saved and reused as needed. And many of the parameter selection parameters apply to other Nikon DSLR bodies.  The bottom line is people pay the bills with  action photographs from the Nikon AF system. If the AF could not keep up with the movements of a toddler, then those Nikon sports photographers would be unemployed.

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dual12
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Re: How to track a toddler's movement with X-E2
In reply to wchutt, 10 months ago

Nothing absurd about it. The OP used the D3s in that situation and Hill did not. There's no arguing with that.

Your problem is misinterpreting what you read.  I made no other statement about the D3s or about professional users, nor did I imply anything beyond what I specifically stated.

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joema1
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Re: How to track a toddler's movement with X-E2
In reply to wchutt, 10 months ago

wchutt wrote:

.. If the AF could not keep up with the movements of a toddler, then those Nikon sports photographers would be unemployed.

The OP was talking about the X-E2 subject/face recognition and automatic lateral tracking of the recognized subject element. The D3S AF system has very limited subject recognition and tracking. That doesn't matter to a pro photographer, since they usually keep the AF point on target manually.

With an older DSLR (like the D3S) the lateral tracking -- keeping the AF point on target is mostly the skill of the photographer. The D3S does have what Nikon calls "3D tracking", which is a rudimentary ability to track laterally moving subjects, but few pro sports photographers would use or rely on that.

Pro DSLRs with sophisticated phase-detect AF do an excellent job of predictive fore/aft tracking of subjects moving toward or away from the camera. They do less well on lateral tracking, but operationally this doesn't matter to a pro, since they keep the AF point on target by manual skill.

Newer DSLR designs use high-res metering sensors, which do double-duty. Besides metering, there are sufficient pixels for subject recognition, even though the mirror is down and main sensor covered. They attempt to merge metering data with phase detect data for improved recognition and lateral tracking.

However the D3S has only 1005 metering pixels so is very limited in ability to recognize and track subjects laterally. The X-E2 -- despite being less expensive, lower performance in general, and less suited to pro sports photography -- might actually do better at auto-tracking of a toddler. This doesn't mean its AF system is generally superior to a D3S but in this one narrow area it is better.

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Absolutic
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Face Detection
In reply to a l b e r t, 10 months ago

While we are on subject of face detection,

here is my communication with the Fuji guys on youtube channel (I guess that's the place to communicate with them). Hopefully this issues bothers more people than just me and other people can voice their displeasure with Fuji's choice here

ME:

Billy, can you ask Fuji about their thought process. I CANNOT assign Face Detection on/off on a Fn button at top on XE2? But I can absolutely do it on XA1, the cheaper older model? Where is the logic? FD on/off is Exactly what I want to assign to Fn up at the top on XE2. Instead each time to turn on/off Fd one needs to go deep in Menus. Explain the Fuji logic? XA1 gets it but not XE2? Reply ·

Fuji Guys4 minutes ago Thank-you for your feedback. We will be forwarding it along to our engineers to review. Reply ·

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Ed_arizona
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In reply to Graham Hill, 10 months ago

Graham Hill wrote:

JJ1983 wrote:

Graham Hill wrote:

a l b e r t wrote:

Tracking a toddler is difficult with a Nikon D3s?? You do realize photographers shoot/shot pro sports with this camera right?

An adult can run very fast, but a toddler is more nimble and can turn his/her head or body faster than an adult can.

You havent seen an NFL game. Trust me, the athletes there can out run/out perform a toddler.

I have a 4-yr old that runs around (back and forth, left and right), not just like pro football running across the field. He can flip his body and move up and down the sofa very quickly.

I know as I have two kids, both of whom have gone through that stage. At the time I photographed them with an ancient Canon 350D and recall having no problems at all getting images.

Now with the X-E2 + AF-C, I can now track his movement much better, something the X-E1 simply cannot do.

My comments were not directed at your X-E2 methods.

But I should have mentioned that I was using D3s with the Nikon 50 1.4G lens. This lens is not fast in terms of AF performance. If I were to use Nikon 24-70 2.8, then AF tracking is much better in this regard.

Your comment implied that the D3S could not track a toddler, which I find impossible to believe.

Why are you so defensive about your camera?

You are mistaken. I don't own a Nikon DS3. I just know sports photographers who used it all the time to track something a bit faster than a toddler.

Amusing such people argue over a pro level DSLR with FAR SUPERIOR action AF , I used to own a D200 and that was much better for action than my X-E2 is, Oh is anyone's 2 year old is faster than a NFL PRO player, he has a great future ahead!

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Georgino
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Re: How to track a toddler's movement with X-E2
In reply to a l b e r t, 10 months ago

Thanks for the info.

Personally I never used face detection / tracking, 3D tracking etc ... as i am used to shoot extremely fast moving targets  with my Nikon (like birds in flight, sport ...)

I always use single point to acquire my target but I will try face detection with fuji. Thanks again for the info

PS: AS soon as you mention D3s I knew there will be complains LOL

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Absolutic
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Re: How to track a toddler's movement with X-E2
In reply to a l b e r t, 10 months ago

a l b e r t wrote:

Turn Face Detection on. For indoor shots with bounced flash (EF-20 + Omnibounce diffuser), I set shutter speed to 1/180. For outdoor, you may want to set it higher (1/250) if fill flash is not required. I set AutoISO 800 (limit the ISO the camera can use so I get more flash output vs ambient at night). Aperture set to Auto if this is daytime, but at least f/2.8 if it is at night to give it enough DoF. Set AF-C. For the test, I was using the XF23 1.4 lens.

Now when I half press the shutter release button, the camera will continue AF on the face and you can fire away when you got the expression on the face you want to capture. Flash exposure is accurate most of the time as it uses the face as reference.

Got a number of keepers that way. Can't do that with X-E1 and even with the D3s, tracking is still difficult (tracked the wrong things at times).

I am going to try it at home, but my 18-month-old toddler in addition to moving non-stop very fast in every direction, also has a tendency to turn his head back on me when he sees me with a camera (which is most of the time) just to screw with me.   And then FD usually loses him.

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Absolutic
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Re: How to track a toddler's movement with X-E2
In reply to Georgino, 10 months ago

Georgino wrote:

Thanks for the info.

Personally I never used face detection / tracking, 3D tracking etc ... as i am used to shoot extremely fast moving targets with my Nikon (like birds in flight, sport ...)

I always use single point to acquire my target but I will try face detection with fuji. Thanks again for the info

PS: AS soon as you mention D3s I knew there will be complains LOL

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I used to never use FD.  but with Fuji, being not the fastest AF acqusition especially in low light, in general, any help with focusing we can appreciate with, especially when dealing with a fast-moving toddler.   When you shoot with Nikon Dslr like D700 or D3/4, the af acquisition and tracking is on whole different level and you get faster af to begin with, thus, eliminating the need for FD.

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Graham Hill
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In reply to Ed_arizona, 10 months ago

Ed_arizona wrote:

Amusing such people argue over a pro level DSLR with FAR SUPERIOR action AF , I used to own a D200 and that was much better for action than my X-E2 is, Oh is anyone's 2 year old is faster than a NFL PRO player, he has a great future ahead!

You are not reading clearly.  The OP is arguing that the pro level camera can't autofocus on a moving subject.

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