V3?

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
WD
WD
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V3?
11 months ago

Last December I bought the V1 out of curiosity, tired of waiting for an updated D300.  A 50 year SLR/Pentax/Nikon user, I was smitten and purchased almost the entire '1' system including FT-1.  It's changed my whole camera experience and outlook for the future.  I haven't grabbed the D300, except to compare it with V1 on the same subjects, since!

Now, for ME, mirrorless is the future, (short as that may be!)

I'd be satisfied to stay with the Nikon 1 system if Nikon would somehow (please) show me the future.  The V2 is attractive for it's solutions to a few shortcomings of the V1.  (You know what they are.)  However, it still lacks a significant number of features which are often used and desired by photographers interested in something more than what the V2 possesses.

Here's the dilemma.  The Panasonic GX-7, were it a Nikon V3, is as close today in specs as one could get, again for ME.  Size, build, lens selection, video capability, fast focusing (even if not V2 fast), easily adjustable with numerous external buttons/dials, resolution, high ISO capability, on-board flash, silent shutter, etc., etc.  And then.....

GX-7: $848 with decent kit lens.

V2:    $896 with 10-30 kit lens.

Really????

I'd never get rid of the V1.  It's in my bag and when the V2 price drops, or a worthy V3 emerges, I'll add that.  But, Nikon, you won me to mirrorless, lost my DSLR business for good, and could lose my future business (small loss that it may be) if you sit on your haunches and do nothing....like you have with D300 upgrade path. 

I'm heading to Samy's Camera in Santa Barbara now to check out GX-7 and GH3 combo.....out of curiosity.  Black Friday is coming to the US in a few days.  Just want to remind you.

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Warren

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nunatak
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Re: V3?
In reply to WD, 11 months ago

Samy's doesn't have particularly good deals on their new equipment, however they will match prices from the big NY stores. i don't expect Nikon to have another fire sale until their sales numbers come in after christmas.

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cyuill2007
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Re: V3?
In reply to WD, 11 months ago

It is quite unfortunate that Nikon is keeping us Nikon 1 enthusiasts guessing about their long-term plans/commitment to the system. Nikon, however, has been quite tight-lipped about new Nikon 1 products. Unlike the silly Df teaser campaign FX-system users got treated to, Nikon gave almost no warning before introducing the AW1. Supposedly there are a macro lens and possibly a 70-300mm zoom in the works. Release date? Who knows?

My long term goal is to stick with Nikon 1. My V1 is serving me well. I will upgrade if and when a V3 or V4 comes out. Nikon 1 cameras are much more compatible with F-mount AF and AF-S lenses than m43 cameras are, one reason I bought a V1 rather than a m43 camera.

That said, the latest Panasonic m43 cameras are supposed to be very good still and video cameras. They will, however, tend to be larger and have larger lenses due to the larger m43 sensor size. Light and portable, but not quite as much as Nikon 1.

Good luck with making a decision.

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Vlasty
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Re: V3?
In reply to WD, 11 months ago

I too was on the fence with the 1 system until recently. I love the form factor and being able to cover all focal ranges affordably. Living in Japan I see the J1-J3 everywhere as well as some V2's, not many S's or V1's. The 1 series is in no danger of going anywhere in my opinion as long as the cameras can move in Asia and in particular Japan. Just the other night on TV here I saw a blurb and commentary about the recent patent revelation on the 300mm zoom.

I would be more concerned if I was a micro 4/3rd owner. I rarely see those anywhere, but when it comes down to it here Nikon and Canon DSLR's are still king with the Nikon 1 right behind them. Reading tea leaves is fun but I am not concerned now.

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Windancer
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Re: V3?
In reply to WD, 11 months ago

WD wrote:

Now, for ME, mirrorless is the future, (short as that may be!)

Warren

I too am very satisfied with my Nikon 1 V2 c/w 10-100/4~5.6 lens.

Terry

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echorower
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Re: V3?
In reply to WD, 11 months ago

I share your pain as I have a V1 with four lens and wish to purchase the UWA by Spring (or whenever a deal presents) but reluctant without confirmation of a future path. I'm rather fond of the V1 (have SB N5 & GPS) but look forward to what a V3 might offer. I value the V1 for excellent metering, colors and responsiveness. It handles more like older film cameras as I rarely fuss with settings, occasionally switching settings for closeup work. And there is just one simple, easy to read menu (although settings could be grouped a bit better). Other cameras seem to keep ones head down, fussing with settings?

Nikon One glass is really excellent and cheap when compared to similar excellent glass in the 4/3 arena, well worth building a system for. I'm keeping with positive thoughts that Nikon will offer a V3 that will really knock the socks off the current V1/2!

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VertigonA380
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Re: V3?
In reply to WD, 11 months ago

I hear you and Panasonic have always had a strong line up of small compacts. My first camera was an LX3 and I made a lot of mistakes with that thing and learnt a lot too.

First attempt shooting in a lightbox, blown highlights, no white balance and a myriad of other issues.

The one thing I don't get with the camera debates is when you chose a camera, that's the best for you at the time if you have done your research. You can't chose a camera yet to be released. When you buy a camera you have to know pretty soon there is going to be something better, whichever model you get. Also for me personally I know I haven't reached the potential of my V2 or DSLR, so even if someone gave me the best camera/lens combination in the world, would my photography improve dramatically? I don't think so.

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WCguy
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Re: V3?
In reply to WD, 11 months ago

Hang in there Warren. My bet is there will be a V3 in the near future. Too many lenses are coming out now.I think you might kick yourself in the butt if you switch. The GX-7 is a nice camera, but I bet the V3 will be even better.I feel your pain, but I am sticking with the V1 system till a replacement comes out, just hope I am still alive. Good luck      W.C. (Warren)

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jonikon
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Re: V3?
In reply to WD, 11 months ago

WD wrote:

...

Here's the dilemma. The Panasonic GX-7, were it a Nikon V3, is as close today in specs as one could get, again for ME. Size, build, lens selection, video capability, fast focusing (even if not V2 fast), easily adjustable with numerous external buttons/dials, resolution, high ISO capability, on-board flash, silent shutter, etc., etc. And then.....

GX-7: $848 with decent kit lens.

V2: $896 with 10-30 kit lens.

Really????

I'd never get rid of the V1. It's in my bag and when the V2 price drops, or a worthy V3 emerges, I'll add that. But, Nikon, you won me to mirrorless, lost my DSLR business for good, and could lose my future business (small loss that it may be) if you sit on your haunches and do nothing....like you have with D300 upgrade path.

I'm heading to Samy's Camera in Santa Barbara now to check out GX-7 and GH3 combo.....out of curiosity. Black Friday is coming to the US in a few days. Just want to remind you.

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Warren7

I can't see myself ever giving up my DSLR with it's pentaprism OVF, but If I were to get rid of my Nikon DSLR and go mirroless only,  the Panasonic G7 would probably be near the top of my list as well. The  Panasonic G7 is a nice featured camera and it's size, (even with the built in EVF), is what an m4/3 mirrorless camera should be. Before you purchase though, make sure you can afford the more expensive quality m4/3 lenses to make a good system.

Good luck!

- Jon

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WD
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Back from Samy's...
In reply to jonikon, 11 months ago

jonikon wrote:

WD wrote:

...

Here's the dilemma. The Panasonic GX-7, were it a Nikon V3, is as close today in specs as one could get, again for ME. Size, build, lens selection, video capability, fast focusing (even if not V2 fast), easily adjustable with numerous external buttons/dials, resolution, high ISO capability, on-board flash, silent shutter, etc., etc. And then.....

GX-7: $848 with decent kit lens.

V2: $896 with 10-30 kit lens.

Really????

I'd never get rid of the V1. It's in my bag and when the V2 price drops, or a worthy V3 emerges, I'll add that. But, Nikon, you won me to mirrorless, lost my DSLR business for good, and could lose my future business (small loss that it may be) if you sit on your haunches and do nothing....like you have with D300 upgrade path.

I'm heading to Samy's Camera in Santa Barbara now to check out GX-7 and GH3 combo.....out of curiosity. Black Friday is coming to the US in a few days. Just want to remind you.

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Warren7

I can't see myself ever giving up my DSLR with it's pentaprism OVF, but If I were to get rid of my Nikon DSLR and go mirroless only, the Panasonic G7 would probably be near the top of my list as well. The Panasonic G7 is a nice featured camera and it's size, (even with the built in EVF), is what an m4/3 mirrorless camera should be. Before you purchase though, make sure you can afford the more expensive quality m4/3 lenses to make a good system.

Good luck!

- Jon

It was an interesting trip. I met a sales rep, Carter, who was experienced, knowledgeable and helpful. A pleasurable experience. He allowed me to handle numerous cameras, was engaging and informative.

The GH3 is bigger than I want to carry anymore, feeling about the same as a D7000, though the lenses are smaller of course. It would be, however, the camera of choice if video were the primary use and stills secondary. Panasonic seems to be clearly leading the video parade. I've been shooting much more video in the past year with the V1 and have begun to enjoy it to the extent it's become a serious consideration. Never thought that would happen, but we do, hopefully, continue to evolve. I've a lot to learn about that.

The GX7 was very attractive. The size feels very similar to the V1 but better in the hand because of the built in "grip" for the right hand. The EVF was better than the V1; focusing was fast; external controls numerous and highly configurable. Video capability is near GH3 levels, still capability the same, or, perhaps even better. It impressed me. I believe it could be my 'V3' if Nikon fails to keep up.

I didn't buy either one, though truthfully, the GX7 for stills and GH3 for video would be a pretty awesome setup. I'm still happy with the V1 system and will continue learning how to use it more proficiently. I shot the Los Angeles Auto Show last Friday and came away very happy with the results. The local animal shelter had a fund drive/music fest at the local hotel which I videod with the V1 and the results were better than expected. It's still a great little camera.

Good as the V1 is, it's truthfully not on the GX7 level. But, that's the nature of product evolution. Hopefully, by the time it becomes time to move, the V3 will be here.

The trip totally reinforced the belief that MILC is the future. These new cameras are awesome....(and I didn't have time to check out the Oly EM-1!)

Nikon!! What do you have for us??

Best regards to all in the forum.  You are all a great bunch of people!

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Warren

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yslee1
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Re: Back from Samy's...
In reply to WD, 11 months ago

WD wrote:

The GH3 is bigger than I want to carry anymore, feeling about the same as a D7000, though the lenses are smaller of course. It would be, however, the camera of choice if video were the primary use and stills secondary.

I have a GH3 and use it primarily for stills. This myth really needs to die already. The results are similar to the EM5, and are better than the D300 it replaces. I can't say the Nikon 1 cameras are at that level yet.

Yes, I was in the long line for the D400 replacement. Too bad Nikon.

They might still get my money from a V2 or a V3, but that will be used for long lens work, until Panasonic/Olympus get something decent out. Even then, the lure of an 810 or 1080 FoV equivalent in a 1.5kg package is tempting.

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VBLondon
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Re: Back from Samy's...
In reply to WD, 11 months ago

WD wrote:

Good as the V1 is, it's truthfully not on the GX7 level.

I think part of the problem is that the Nikon 1 sensor has stood still for 2 years now.

I bought a V1 when they came out, and it replaced my Panasonic GF1. At the time, the GF1 was perhaps the equivalent of the GX7 (albeit without an internal EVF).

My impression was that the V1 was much much faster, had better colour/tone output at default settings and high ISO performance that was similar to the GF1 (perhaps a touch worse). Apart from the well-known firmware quirks, I much preferred it to the GF1.

The 1" sensor can contest m43 if it is at the sensor 'state of the art', just as m43 does contest APS-C sensor performance. It does not work having a 1" which is a generation behind competing larger sensors.

My V2 output is no better than my V1.

It doesn't make a huge difference to me personally - I like the Nikon brand, I like using Nikon RAW exclusively with Nikon software, so I am reluctant to consider a change. But, I have held back on investing in more lenses until Nikon convince me they have a long-term sustainable system.

To be fair, the 1 System has moved a long way in 2 years since it was launched, and much of the original lens and accessory roadmap has been delivered. The problem is that competing MILC systems have moved a very long way. 2 years ago m43 still had an odd and incomplete lens range, and a body choice limited to a whole raft of Oly and Pana bodies with no EVF and the old 12MP sensor, and a few Pana G/GH bodies that never appealed as blobby DSLR-clones with small sensors. Now the lens range has filled out a lot, and the GX7 and Oly EM5 and EM1 are very competitive bodies.

My feeling is that Nikon need to get everything right with a V3 and a stand-out lens or two to boost the 1 System's credibility.

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Veducci
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Re: Back from Samy's...
In reply to VBLondon, 11 months ago

VBLondon wrote:

WD wrote:

Good as the V1 is, it's truthfully not on the GX7 level.

I think part of the problem is that the Nikon 1 sensor has stood still for 2 years now.

I bought a V1 when they came out, and it replaced my Panasonic GF1. At the time, the GF1 was perhaps the equivalent of the GX7 (albeit without an internal EVF).

My impression was that the V1 was much much faster, had better colour/tone output at default settings and high ISO performance that was similar to the GF1 (perhaps a touch worse). Apart from the well-known firmware quirks, I much preferred it to the GF1.

The 1" sensor can contest m43 if it is at the sensor 'state of the art', just as m43 does contest APS-C sensor performance. It does not work having a 1" which is a generation behind competing larger sensors.

My V2 output is no better than my V1.

It doesn't make a huge difference to me personally - I like the Nikon brand, I like using Nikon RAW exclusively with Nikon software, so I am reluctant to consider a change. But, I have held back on investing in more lenses until Nikon convince me they have a long-term sustainable system.

To be fair, the 1 System has moved a long way in 2 years since it was launched, and much of the original lens and accessory roadmap has been delivered. The problem is that competing MILC systems have moved a very long way. 2 years ago m43 still had an odd and incomplete lens range, and a body choice limited to a whole raft of Oly and Pana bodies with no EVF and the old 12MP sensor, and a few Pana G/GH bodies that never appealed as blobby DSLR-clones with small sensors. Now the lens range has filled out a lot, and the GX7 and Oly EM5 and EM1 are very competitive bodies.

My feeling is that Nikon need to get everything right with a V3 and a stand-out lens or two to boost the 1 System's credibility.

That pretty much sums it up. There is no compelling reason for anyone to upgrade or buy into a current N1 system at current retail prices .

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BobK77
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Re: Back from Samy's...
In reply to Veducci, 11 months ago

Nikon could have a big time winner with N1 series. Neither Panasonic or Sony had/have 
good line of lenses ready to use as Nikon does with AF-S line already.
I would love to have a compact body capable of HIGH QUALITY video to complement
my collection of AF-S lenses. Unfortunately N1 only offers mediocre video quality and ridiculous
price for the FT-1 adapter.

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Denny Smith 16
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Re: Back from Samy's...
In reply to BobK77, 11 months ago

I think a V3 is in the works, but using a larger sensor, or a Sony sensor would be a mistake. What makes the Nikon 1 system unique is its Aptina chip -- this is basically a "vide" chip that can do great stills too. This is what gives the Nikon system it's speed. The excellent video results from the V1 is what initially sold me, and the outstanding stills closed the deal as an added bonus. No other "stills" camera out there can shoot 4K video, abet the V1 only can do this for a max 1-second burst, but it can do it. This is the first digital camera I have ever used in 20 years of photography, that shoots like a "Film" camera, fast, responsive, no capture delay, and "film like" image results. Other cameras have their strong points, but they do not beat the Nikon 1 series for ease of use, or quick responsive focus/shooting speed.

Nikon has just added two, pro-quality lenses (32.5mm and the wide angle zoom lenses), with another on the drawing board, so I do not think Nikon is giving up on the CX System.  We will have to sit back and see what happens.

I think the V3 will (or should) feature the new Aptina 14MP or similar newer Aptina chip.  This year, Aptina announced their new chip:

"Aptina announced a new 1" 14MP sensor (AR1411HS) that can output full 14MP resolution at 80fps and is capable of shooting 1080p at 120 fps and 4k video at 60 fps."

No other DSLR or compact mirror less camera can not shoot video at these specs or rate, and stills from a 1-inch sensor that can give a MFT a run for its money -- what more do you want!

Read more on NikonRumors.com: http://nikonrumors.com/2013/04/20/will-the-nikon-1-v3-use-the-new-aptina-14mp-4k-sensor.aspx/#ixzz2lm9Z5HDp

Cheers

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WD
WD
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Re: V3?
In reply to VertigonA380, 11 months ago

VertigonA380 wrote:

The one thing I don't get with the camera debates is when you chose a camera, that's the best for you at the time if you have done your research. You can't chose a camera yet to be released. When you buy a camera you have to know pretty soon there is going to be something better, whichever model you get. Also for me personally I know I haven't reached the potential of my V2 or DSLR, so even if someone gave me the best camera/lens combination in the world, would my photography improve dramatically? I don't think so.

One thing I've learned as an athlete who's relied on "tools", i.e. bats, clubs, racquets, balls, etc., is that the equipment is more important than most believe.  It extends to photography, craftsmanship, artistry, etc..

Cameras and lenses can either limit or improve one's output.  But, it's based on the level of commitment.  The "commitment" part is crucial.  If one doesn't care then the whole subject is meaningless.

One key to personally satisfactory results is finding what works comfortably with a lack of irritations plus support for improvement.  There's no one "best" anything. We each must pay attention to what we are, what we hope to achieve, what we need or like to get the "best camera/lens" for US.

Then, of course, there are the limits of budget...a major hurdle for many.....if not most.  The dreaded "compromise"!  Luckily for us the equipment we use/want/need is evolving at a rapid clip and we have many choices.

The Nikon 1 system (V1 for me) is a new venue to pursue with compelling new techniques and styles.  There are some unwanted irritations and limits on technique which I'd like eliminated to make me more comfortable.  For now I'm willing to work around them, but would prefer to find the right "clubs and ball" to let me relax and simply concentrate on the shot with more confidence.  The V2 appears to be a step, however limited, in that direction but at a cost which seems questionable.  (The dreaded "budget compromise.")

Hence, my wish for a more GX7 styled V3.  At the current price of a V2 it would then be a no-brainer.   Hopefully, it will come.

Regards,

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Warren

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Denny Smith 16
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Re: Back from Samy's...
In reply to Denny Smith 16, 11 months ago

The two new "Pro level" lenses I was referring to are the 32mm f/1.2 and the NIKKOR VR 6.7-13mm f/3.5-5.6.

Cheers

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Daniel Bliss
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Re: V3?
In reply to Vlasty, 11 months ago

But Nikon needs to push them as hard in the US.  Right now, what with Japan having no counterpart to the US Supreme Court decision in Leegin, there's nothing to prevent camera stores and wholesalers from pushing these very aggressively . . . and they are — a V2 and lens running around $500.  But even the list price is far below that in the US.  In Europe, conversely, the "1" list prices are even more out of line.  I noticed today on DPReviews's buying guides a Sony that runs about 300 Euro, $400 US as you'd expect, and then a Nikon 1 mode that also runs around $400 US but is 440 Euro.

This pricing nonsense between markets by Nikon subsidiaries is not helping the cause of the "1" system.  Perhaps if corporate is wondering why sales are so variable between markets, they should look at the games their subsidiaries are playing.  The "1" system is counting on it.

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Daniel Bliss
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Re: Back from Samy's...
In reply to VBLondon, 11 months ago

Aptina's new 14 MP sensor — lower noise, much higher bandwidth, presumably better dynamic range than the current one — is said to be due out in new cameras in early 2014.  Perhaps that's when we'll see the V3.

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Vlasty
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Re: V3?
In reply to Daniel Bliss, 11 months ago

Very good points. I am fortunate enough to live in Japan and be able to afford the V2. There is no way possible I would be able to pay US prices for it.

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