Surprised no one has posted this before..

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
JamesMortimer
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Re: Here's a thing
In reply to Brian, 11 months ago

Brian wrote:

Marcamera wrote:

Brian wrote:

So I am pretty neutral on this type of killing. The lion isn't about to go extinct any time. I am more concerned about the habitat being reduced. there are plenty of them where the antelope play. Realistically game management is an important part of maintaining balance in that region. Keeping the number of lions in check means that they are less likely to rely on humans for their sustenance.

There are tens of thousands of hunters that go to southern Africa for the hunt. Why is she getting singled out? I love how an online petition was started and got 13,000 signatures. I bet that there weren't more than a 100 of those signatures from South Africa.

As long as they aren't going for endangered animals, I figure the animal population specialists in that part of the world know far more about that subject than I.

That type of behaviour, trophy hunting is not that much different from a similar scenario:

In states where death penalty is still performed, they could sell "killing rights" to those willing to pay, with rights to post pictures of the executed inmate.

You would pay to push the button, pull the trigger, release the gallows trap, or whatever.

Big deal, they have been sentenced, so whoever executes them does not matter. Right?

Rgds

Unfortunately with humans taking over the wilderness areas, this is what is happening. The more dangerous animals are being condemned. The Canadians did it to the wolf. africans do it to the lions. When humans move in the lions gotta go. What is your solution?

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Brian

Hunt the humans...

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Brian
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Re: Surprised no one has posted this before..
In reply to JamesMortimer, 11 months ago

JamesMortimer wrote:

Brian wrote:

So I am pretty neutral on this type of killing. The lion isn't about to go extinct any time. I am more concerned about the habitat being reduced. there are plenty of them where the antelope play. Realistically game management is an important part of maintaining balance in that region. Keeping the number of lions in check means that they are less likely to rely on humans for their sustenance.

There are tens of thousands of hunters that go to southern Africa for the hunt. Why is she getting singled out?

Because she made such a sing and dance of this killing - posting these foul photos on blogs and such, hosting her excremental "huntress" TV show, and so on.

If there needs to be a hunt of some sort - let one group of hunters hunt anther group - human against human, to the death, in some disused ruined townscape.

Win-win... they have hunts, We get these scum removed from humanity!

I love how an online petition was started and got 13,000 signatures. I bet that there weren't more than a 100 of those signatures from South Africa.

As long as they aren't going for endangered animals, I figure the animal population specialists in that part of the world know far more about that subject than I.

I'll paraphrase the words from the end of Jurassic Park (1 or 2 ??)

We don't need to "manage" plants and animals - we need to leave them the hell alone.
The only control we need is the removal of something attacking a village or whatever.

Just leave them to roam and hunt antelope or whatever as they wish. Stop poaching them, stop hunting them, just stop "humanising" them!

except that is a complete fallacy.  We do need to manage them.  Herd animals do not have the ability to regulate their populations.  When the natural regulators (lions, wolves, etc) are removed, man  then has to take on that responsibility.

When land for herd animals is removed, natural regulators in turn have to be reduced so as to keep them out of the village.  Maybe you would like wolves and bears reintroduced to the place where you live.  I am sure they existed there at one time.

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Brian

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Brian
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Re: Here's a thing
In reply to JamesMortimer, 11 months ago

JamesMortimer wrote:

Brian wrote:

Marcamera wrote:

Brian wrote:

So I am pretty neutral on this type of killing. The lion isn't about to go extinct any time. I am more concerned about the habitat being reduced. there are plenty of them where the antelope play. Realistically game management is an important part of maintaining balance in that region. Keeping the number of lions in check means that they are less likely to rely on humans for their sustenance.

There are tens of thousands of hunters that go to southern Africa for the hunt. Why is she getting singled out? I love how an online petition was started and got 13,000 signatures. I bet that there weren't more than a 100 of those signatures from South Africa.

As long as they aren't going for endangered animals, I figure the animal population specialists in that part of the world know far more about that subject than I.

That type of behaviour, trophy hunting is not that much different from a similar scenario:

In states where death penalty is still performed, they could sell "killing rights" to those willing to pay, with rights to post pictures of the executed inmate.

You would pay to push the button, pull the trigger, release the gallows trap, or whatever.

Big deal, they have been sentenced, so whoever executes them does not matter. Right?

Rgds

Unfortunately with humans taking over the wilderness areas, this is what is happening. The more dangerous animals are being condemned. The Canadians did it to the wolf. africans do it to the lions. When humans move in the lions gotta go. What is your solution?

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Brian

Hunt the humans...

They do that too over in Africa.

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Brian

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DenWil
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Disney could stop romanticising predators.
In reply to Brian, 11 months ago

Hunting should be done in secret.  Certainly not  glorified.

They are ticked off it is a woman. Women should be home barefoot nurturing little chill'n and serving their men.

They are ticked off she is in better shape than most of them  and can manage a rifle when they complain how heavy a D610 is.

Only men should be driving home  from a week in the wilderness  with  elk heads on their truck hoods.

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lylejk
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My personal philosophy when it comes to the hunt.
In reply to JamesMortimer, 11 months ago

If you don't have any intention to consume your kill,  or, you are not trying to defend your people from harm, then the kill is akin to murder.   I have no room for folk to kill a lion just for a trophie.    Sad really.    You kill to survive period.   Anything outside that concept is, well, just plain inhuman.    I have no problem with hunters killing deer for venesin though most may believe it's sport, at least you intend to consume your kill.   Do have a problem with folk killing elephants or lions just for pure sport.  

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JamesMortimer
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Re: Surprised no one has posted this before..
In reply to Brian, 11 months ago

Brian wrote:

JamesMortimer wrote:

Brian wrote:

So I am pretty neutral on this type of killing. The lion isn't about to go extinct any time. I am more concerned about the habitat being reduced. there are plenty of them where the antelope play. Realistically game management is an important part of maintaining balance in that region. Keeping the number of lions in check means that they are less likely to rely on humans for their sustenance.

There are tens of thousands of hunters that go to southern Africa for the hunt. Why is she getting singled out?

Because she made such a sing and dance of this killing - posting these foul photos on blogs and such, hosting her excremental "huntress" TV show, and so on.

If there needs to be a hunt of some sort - let one group of hunters hunt anther group - human against human, to the death, in some disused ruined townscape.

Win-win... they have hunts, We get these scum removed from humanity!

I love how an online petition was started and got 13,000 signatures. I bet that there weren't more than a 100 of those signatures from South Africa.

As long as they aren't going for endangered animals, I figure the animal population specialists in that part of the world know far more about that subject than I.

I'll paraphrase the words from the end of Jurassic Park (1 or 2 ??)

We don't need to "manage" plants and animals - we need to leave them the hell alone.
The only control we need is the removal of something attacking a village or whatever.

Just leave them to roam and hunt antelope or whatever as they wish. Stop poaching them, stop hunting them, just stop "humanising" them!

except that is a complete fallacy. We do need to manage them. Herd animals do not have the ability to regulate their populations. When the natural regulators (lions, wolves, etc) are removed,

That's my point - the herd animals have their numbers controlled by the lions - we just need to stop hunting them for bragging rights!

man then has to take on that responsibility.

When land for herd animals is removed, natural regulators in turn have to be reduced so as to keep them out of the village.

Again - because We have interfered and taken their land away!

We need to control ourselves and stop pretending we have absolute power and right to the whole of this planet.

Maybe you would like wolves and bears reintroduced to the place where you live.

I sure would! (I don't think we had bears in Northumberland) - there is plenty of forested land up here, open moorlands and deep forests.

I am sure they existed there at one time.

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Brian

Humans have to stop thinking of ourselves as the paramount creature of this planet and realise we are just another creature.

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drh681
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Re: Surprised no one has posted this before..
In reply to KEVZPHOTOS, 11 months ago

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:

It makes me utterly sick to see crap like this.

Unfortunately, there are many redneck trophy game hunters just like this one

KEV

Surely not many just like her ?

I'm signing up for a Safari.

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Brian D. Schneider
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Re: Here's a thing
In reply to Brian, 11 months ago

Brian wrote:

Marcamera wrote:

Brian wrote:

So I am pretty neutral on this type of killing. The lion isn't about to go extinct any time. I am more concerned about the habitat being reduced. there are plenty of them where the antelope play. Realistically game management is an important part of maintaining balance in that region. Keeping the number of lions in check means that they are less likely to rely on humans for their sustenance.

There are tens of thousands of hunters that go to southern Africa for the hunt. Why is she getting singled out? I love how an online petition was started and got 13,000 signatures. I bet that there weren't more than a 100 of those signatures from South Africa.

As long as they aren't going for endangered animals, I figure the animal population specialists in that part of the world know far more about that subject than I.

That type of behaviour, trophy hunting is not that much different from a similar scenario:

In states where death penalty is still performed, they could sell "killing rights" to those willing to pay, with rights to post pictures of the executed inmate.

You would pay to push the button, pull the trigger, release the gallows trap, or whatever.

Big deal, they have been sentenced, so whoever executes them does not matter. Right?

Rgds

Unfortunately with humans taking over the wilderness areas, this is what is happening. The more dangerous animals are being condemned. The Canadians did it to the wolf. africans do it to the lions. When humans move in the lions gotta go. What is your solution?

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Brian

" The Canadians did it to the wolf."

Canada had to give some of our wolves to the US since your farmers/ranchers had killed most of yours.

Don't worry, we still have a few to spare.

http://www.wolf.org/wolves/learn/wow/regions/canada/

http://www.wolfsongalaska.org/canadian_wolves.html

http://howlingforjustice.wordpress.com/2010/04/12/dispeling-the-canadian-wolf-myth/

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Brian D. Schneider
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Re: My personal philosophy when it comes to the hunt.
In reply to lylejk, 11 months ago

lylejk wrote:

If you don't have any intention to consume your kill, or, you are not trying to defend your people from harm, then the kill is akin to murder. I have no room for folk to kill a lion just for a trophie. Sad really. You kill to survive period. Anything outside that concept is, well, just plain inhuman. I have no problem with hunters killing deer for venesin though most may believe it's sport, at least you intend to consume your kill. Do have a problem with folk killing elephants or lions just for pure sport.

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Fully agree with you Lyle. Surprised?

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KEVZPHOTOS
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Re: Surprised no one has posted this before..
In reply to JamesMortimer, 11 months ago

I'm utterly shocked that anyone here would defend this woman in any way, shape or form.

To kill any living creature...just for the FUN of it...is completely wrong upon every level.

There is absolutely no need (or relevance) to even bring up, whether or not, Lions are an endangered species....when it's fundamentally evil to kill even a mouse...simply for the pleasure of doing so.

There is no comeback nor rebuttal required.

None at all.

KEV

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bikinchris
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Re: banned
In reply to edwardaneal, 11 months ago

edwardaneal wrote:

all trophy hunting should be banned. I have no problem with hunting for food, I have no problem with hunting as a means of animal population control, but hunting just so you can brag or hang a head on your wall is just wrong - if you want to test your skill with a firearm - set up some targets and shoot, but don't just kill for fun

JMO

Completely agree. Hunting for trophy sport is obscene. Hunting for food is not the same.

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Brian
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Re: Surprised no one has posted this before..
In reply to JamesMortimer, 11 months ago

JamesMortimer wrote:

Brian wrote:

JamesMortimer wrote:

Brian wrote:

So I am pretty neutral on this type of killing. The lion isn't about to go extinct any time. I am more concerned about the habitat being reduced. there are plenty of them where the antelope play. Realistically game management is an important part of maintaining balance in that region. Keeping the number of lions in check means that they are less likely to rely on humans for their sustenance.

There are tens of thousands of hunters that go to southern Africa for the hunt. Why is she getting singled out?

Because she made such a sing and dance of this killing - posting these foul photos on blogs and such, hosting her excremental "huntress" TV show, and so on.

If there needs to be a hunt of some sort - let one group of hunters hunt anther group - human against human, to the death, in some disused ruined townscape.

Win-win... they have hunts, We get these scum removed from humanity!

I love how an online petition was started and got 13,000 signatures. I bet that there weren't more than a 100 of those signatures from South Africa.

As long as they aren't going for endangered animals, I figure the animal population specialists in that part of the world know far more about that subject than I.

I'll paraphrase the words from the end of Jurassic Park (1 or 2 ??)

We don't need to "manage" plants and animals - we need to leave them the hell alone.
The only control we need is the removal of something attacking a village or whatever.

Just leave them to roam and hunt antelope or whatever as they wish. Stop poaching them, stop hunting them, just stop "humanising" them!

except that is a complete fallacy. We do need to manage them. Herd animals do not have the ability to regulate their populations. When the natural regulators (lions, wolves, etc) are removed,

That's my point - the herd animals have their numbers controlled by the lions - we just need to stop hunting them for bragging rights!

man then has to take on that responsibility.

When land for herd animals is removed, natural regulators in turn have to be reduced so as to keep them out of the village.

Again - because We have interfered and taken their land away!

We need to control ourselves and stop pretending we have absolute power and right to the whole of this planet.

This is exactly my point.

Maybe you would like wolves and bears reintroduced to the place where you live.

I sure would! (I don't think we had bears in Northumberland) - there is plenty of forested land up here, open moorlands and deep forests.

Apparently you have never lived near bears and wolves.  It only takes one or two human deaths of humans that weren't antagonizing the animals to call for their numbers to be reduced.  Wolves and bears are not nice animals.  They are top predatory killers.  I love the wilderness and would love to see more space for this type of animal.  Unfortunately easier sad than done.

I am sure they existed there at one time.

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Brian

Humans have to stop thinking of ourselves as the paramount creature of this planet and realise we are just another creature.

We are hardly just another creature.  We are the only creature on this planet that has a sense of this world being a finite space.  As such we have a responsibility to protect it.

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Brian

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Brian D. Schneider
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Re: Surprised no one has posted this before..
In reply to KEVZPHOTOS, 11 months ago

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:

I'm utterly shocked that anyone here would defend this woman in any way, shape or form.

To kill any living creature...just for the FUN of it...is completely wrong upon every level.

There is absolutely no need (or relevance) to even bring up, whether or not, Lions are an endangered species....when it's fundamentally evil to kill even a mouse...simply for the pleasure of doing so.

There is no comeback nor rebuttal required.

None at all.

KEV

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"No problem can be solved at the level of consciousness which created it" - Albert Einstein

"it's fundamentally evil to kill even a mouse"

Unless they taste good

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JamesMortimer
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Re: Surprised no one has posted this before..
In reply to Brian, 11 months ago

Brian wrote:

JamesMortimer wrote:

Brian wrote:

JamesMortimer wrote:

Brian wrote:

So I am pretty neutral on this type of killing. The lion isn't about to go extinct any time. I am more concerned about the habitat being reduced. there are plenty of them where the antelope play. Realistically game management is an important part of maintaining balance in that region. Keeping the number of lions in check means that they are less likely to rely on humans for their sustenance.

There are tens of thousands of hunters that go to southern Africa for the hunt. Why is she getting singled out?

Because she made such a sing and dance of this killing - posting these foul photos on blogs and such, hosting her excremental "huntress" TV show, and so on.

If there needs to be a hunt of some sort - let one group of hunters hunt anther group - human against human, to the death, in some disused ruined townscape.

Win-win... they have hunts, We get these scum removed from humanity!

I love how an online petition was started and got 13,000 signatures. I bet that there weren't more than a 100 of those signatures from South Africa.

As long as they aren't going for endangered animals, I figure the animal population specialists in that part of the world know far more about that subject than I.

I'll paraphrase the words from the end of Jurassic Park (1 or 2 ??)

We don't need to "manage" plants and animals - we need to leave them the hell alone.
The only control we need is the removal of something attacking a village or whatever.

Just leave them to roam and hunt antelope or whatever as they wish. Stop poaching them, stop hunting them, just stop "humanising" them!

except that is a complete fallacy. We do need to manage them. Herd animals do not have the ability to regulate their populations. When the natural regulators (lions, wolves, etc) are removed,

That's my point - the herd animals have their numbers controlled by the lions - we just need to stop hunting them for bragging rights!

man then has to take on that responsibility.

When land for herd animals is removed, natural regulators in turn have to be reduced so as to keep them out of the village.

Again - because We have interfered and taken their land away!

We need to control ourselves and stop pretending we have absolute power and right to the whole of this planet.

This is exactly my point.

Maybe you would like wolves and bears reintroduced to the place where you live.

I sure would! (I don't think we had bears in Northumberland) - there is plenty of forested land up here, open moorlands and deep forests.

Apparently you have never lived near bears and wolves. It only takes one or two human deaths of humans that weren't antagonizing the animals to call for their numbers to be reduced. Wolves and bears are not nice animals. They are top predatory killers. I love the wilderness and would love to see more space for this type of animal. Unfortunately easier sad than done.

I am sure they existed there at one time.

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Brian

Humans have to stop thinking of ourselves as the paramount creature of this planet and realise we are just another creature.

We are hardly just another creature. We are the only creature on this planet that has a sense of this world being a finite space.

While I agree there, I disagree with your last bit.

We don't have a responsibility to protect it (except from US) - we have a responsibility to NOT exploit it, to treat living things as equal.
Sure, eat a cow, like a lion eats an antelope.
Sure, kill a spider, the way a lion kills a flea biting it.

But all we NEED to do is minimise our own viral expansion, reduce our own affect on other equally important living things.

But humans are world herpes: new oil well found? FK the lemurs! It's oil!!

As such we have a responsibility to protect it.

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Brian

The world will look after itself long after we are gone. WE are the vermin who everything else needs protecting from

We aren't custodians of the world, we are just a part of it.

But, in essence, I agree with you somewhat.

Take your bear/wolf thing - we invade their lands then get all piissy when they fight back.

Like sharks (which don't do anywhere near as much damage to man as people are led to think) - some numpty swims near one, gets bitten, suddenly there's a shark hunt going on.

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KEVZPHOTOS
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Re: Surprised no one has posted this before..
In reply to Brian D. Schneider, 11 months ago

Brian D. Schneider wrote:

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:

I'm utterly shocked that anyone here would defend this woman in any way, shape or form.

To kill any living creature...just for the FUN of it...is completely wrong upon every level.

There is absolutely no need (or relevance) to even bring up, whether or not, Lions are an endangered species....when it's fundamentally evil to kill even a mouse...simply for the pleasure of doing so.

There is no comeback nor rebuttal required.

None at all.

KEV

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"No problem can be solved at the level of consciousness which created it" - Albert Einstein

"it's fundamentally evil to kill even a mouse"

Unless they taste good

YOU deliberately omitted the "qualifier" didn't ya.

Ie: for FUN...

To kill solely for FUN is evil upon every possible level.

KEV

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aus4ever
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Re: banned
In reply to bikinchris, 11 months ago

bikinchris wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

all trophy hunting should be banned. I have no problem with hunting for food, I have no problem with hunting as a means of animal population control, but hunting just so you can brag or hang a head on your wall is just wrong - if you want to test your skill with a firearm - set up some targets and shoot, but don't just kill for fun

JMO

Completely agree. Hunting for trophy sport is obscene. Hunting for food is not the same.

Unless you live in a rural remote area, otherwise it's not a valid justification.
Can someone like me who lives in the city with restaurants, supermarkets and food stores everywhere use that as an excuse?

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bikinchris
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Re: banned
In reply to aus4ever, 11 months ago

aus4ever wrote:

bikinchris wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

all trophy hunting should be banned. I have no problem with hunting for food, I have no problem with hunting as a means of animal population control, but hunting just so you can brag or hang a head on your wall is just wrong - if you want to test your skill with a firearm - set up some targets and shoot, but don't just kill for fun

JMO

Completely agree. Hunting for trophy sport is obscene. Hunting for food is not the same.

Unless you live in a rural remote area, otherwise it's not a valid justification.
Can someone like me who lives in the city with restaurants, supermarkets and food stores everywhere use that as an excuse?

I know people who use hunting (and fishing) to avoid food stamps. Of course, they don't live in a city. Shooting near other people is just asking for tragedy.

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taintedcamera
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Re: Surprised no one has posted this before..
In reply to JamesMortimer, 11 months ago

JamesMortimer wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2508209/Winchester-Deadly-Passion-presenter-Melissa-Bachman-sparks-outrage-posing-lion-shot-dead.html

"Self-styled 'hardcore huntress' sparks outrage after posting picture of herself with male lion she shot dead on Twitter as thousands sign petition to ban her from South Africa

Melissa Bachman presents a series called Winchester Deadly Passion about hunting

The 'hardcore huntress' posted a picture of herself with a lion she killed on Twitter

The reaction was immediate condemnation

A petition to prevent her from returning to South Africa, where she shot the lion, has been signed more than 13,000 times"

What a beautiful animal, gone forever (that one is), just so she can prove she has big meaty flaps (the equivalent to big balls on a man)

And it's not anything like the only one she's killed - she is vermin.

Hopefully someone will take a shot at her when she gets back home.

"Signatory Richard Robinson wrote, 'You didn't kill a lion, you stood behind a machine and pulled a little trigger, you pathetic, sad excuse of a human.'

The African lion is considered a vulnerable species. Numbers are rapidly declining due to loss of habitat and conflict with humans."

Yeah she and those like her are pathetic......

I have no interest in killing or injuring innocent four legged animals.

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Brian
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Re: banned
In reply to aus4ever, 11 months ago

aus4ever wrote:

bikinchris wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

all trophy hunting should be banned. I have no problem with hunting for food, I have no problem with hunting as a means of animal population control, but hunting just so you can brag or hang a head on your wall is just wrong - if you want to test your skill with a firearm - set up some targets and shoot, but don't just kill for fun

JMO

Completely agree. Hunting for trophy sport is obscene. Hunting for food is not the same.

Unless you live in a rural remote area, otherwise it's not a valid justification.
Can someone like me who lives in the city with restaurants, supermarkets and food stores everywhere use that as an excuse?

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Bamboo
Defiant of all the beats it takes, it bends ... but not to bow too low,
And it cares not which direction the wind may blow.

how does where one live play into this?  Deer here in Michigan need to be harvested each year.  We are talking about 400,000 plus each year.  This means over 1 million hunters.  I don't think you are going to find that many in rural America.  Oh and that doesn't include the 70,000 deer killed each year by vehicles.

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Brian

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KEVZPHOTOS
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Re: Surprised no one has posted this before..
In reply to JamesMortimer, 11 months ago

JamesMortimer wrote:

The world will look after itself long after we are gone. WE are the vermin who everything else needs protecting from

Yes, we are a predatory, organic based, planetary virus.

We aren't custodians of the world, we are just a part of it.

But, in essence, I agree with you somewhat.

Take your bear/wolf thing - we invade their lands then get all piissy when they fight back.

Like sharks (which don't do anywhere near as much damage to man as people are led to think) - some numpty swims near one, gets bitten, suddenly there's a shark hunt going on.

Exactly, this is NOT our dominion...we do not own it, we are not custodians of anything...we are simply part of the planetary system - nothing more.

Humans are not great, nor some creator-beings chosen species.

KEV

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"No problem can be solved at the level of consciousness which created it" - Albert Einstein

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