Who's FF system will be in the best shape 5 years from now?

Started Nov 15, 2013 | Discussions
snow4ever
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Re: It's not an investment
In reply to riveredger, Nov 16, 2013

People obsess way too much about future unknowns.  Just let it happen, man.

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pavi1
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Re: It's not an investment
In reply to riveredger, Nov 16, 2013

riveredger wrote:

pavi1 wrote:

The others are beating their heads against the wall producing inferior products and unable to figure out why no one wants their junk except the uneducated.

Do you really think this is an accurate statement?

I could be wrong. My only data used to form my opinion are sales numbers. It is possible their product is the best available and no one knows.

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Glen Barrington
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Re: It's not an investment
In reply to snow4ever, Nov 16, 2013

Especially so for something as trivial as photo gear!

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Now that you've judged the quality of my typing, take a look at my photos. . .
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digitallollygag
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Re: It's not an investment
In reply to snow4ever, Nov 16, 2013

snow4ever wrote:

People obsess way too much about future unknowns. Just let it happen, man.

You know, I'm beginning to agree with that viewpoint a little more every day.  Why worry about it?  Just get out there and enjoy eyes that see and cameras that autofocus!

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riveredger
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Re: It's not an investment
In reply to pavi1, Nov 16, 2013

ok, so sales volume = quality. i understand your position now.

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Pontoneer
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Re: 5 years is a VERY long time for Digital cameras.
In reply to Andreas Stuebs, Nov 16, 2013

Andreas Stuebs wrote:

Yes but not for businesses:

What makes Nikon and Canon such popular cameras with the pros is not just the cameras and the choice of lenses both from the original supplier and from 3rd parties but also all the other support they give and the infrastructure which is available supporting these brands

Rentals, repair, emergency replacements ...

Popularity , sales volume and number of service outlets is no indicator of quality .

By that token you might be comparing Ford with Mercedes . Ford probably sell rather more cars , trucks or vans than Mercedes and have more dealerships , besides any backstreet garage can service a Ford ; compared to a smaller dealer network , fewer trained technicians with Star Diagnostics able to cope with newer vehicles etc - that is not to say that one make is 'better' than the other .

While Canikon's higher end offerings are very good , their entry level stuff is pretty poor in terms of build quality ( and probably longevity ) .

I see Canikon as the Fords and Vauxhalls of the camera world , with the smaller , more specialised makers such as Pentax and Hasselblad as the Mercedes or Porsche with better engineered products at each price point and ranges which go somewhat higher than the mainstream makes .

As for who will still be in business in five years time - it is anybody's guess . Not even the biggest , most well known names are 100% safe - for an example within the camera world - just think Kodak .

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Derek.

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sportyaccordy
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Re: Who's FF system will be in the best shape 5 years from now?
In reply to thothtp, Nov 16, 2013

I think CaNikon will be strong. All they have to do is offer some mirrorless alternatives in their native mounts, but still keep the DSLR lines intact, and they will pretty much put Oly/Pani/Sony out of business. Imagine an OM1 size ILC with the F-mount. Why would anybody bother with the FE mount? They could also design some of the lenses to occupy a bit of the space freed up by removing the mirror/shutter assembly to make them smaller outside of the body. It's all just dependent on the maturation of OSPDAF and the decision for CaNikon to make a legitimate investment into the future.

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sportyaccordy
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Re: 5 years is a VERY long time for Digital cameras.
In reply to Pontoneer, Nov 16, 2013

Pontoneer wrote:

I see Canikon as the Fords and Vauxhalls of the camera world , with the smaller , more specialised makers such as Pentax and Hasselblad as the Mercedes or Porsche with better engineered products at each price point and ranges which go somewhat higher than the mainstream makes .

Hasselblad maybe, but Pentax offerings are right in line with CaNikon both in price and quality. Nikon has the top FX and DX DSLRs despite being the "Ford" of cameras. Pentax, Olympus etc are more like the Mazdas and Hyundais of the camera world.

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Pontoneer
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Re: 5 years is a VERY long time for Digital cameras.
In reply to sportyaccordy, Nov 16, 2013

Pontoneer wrote:

I see Canikon as the Fords and Vauxhalls of the camera world , with the smaller , more specialised makers such as Pentax and Hasselblad as the Mercedes or Porsche with better engineered products at each price point and ranges which go somewhat higher than the mainstream makes .

Hasselblad maybe, but Pentax offerings are right in line with CaNikon both in price and quality. Nikon has the top FX and DX DSLRs despite being the "Ford" of cameras. Pentax, Olympus etc are more like the Mazdas and Hyundais of the camera world.

Perhaps you are forgetting that Pentax make medium format equipment thus their range extends above Canikon .
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pavi1
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Re: It's not an investment
In reply to riveredger, Nov 16, 2013

riveredger wrote:

ok, so sales volume = quality. i understand your position now.

I am beginning to think there is an intelligence gap here.

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Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planning
WSSA #44

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riveredger
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Re: It's not an investment
In reply to pavi1, Nov 16, 2013

riveredger wrote:

ok, so sales volume = quality. i understand your position now.

I am beginning to think there is an intelligence gap here.

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Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planning
WSSA #44

Don't be so hard on yourself. Many people make the same error of posting conclusions filled with logical fallacies. At least we both agree that the major players will not be any different in five years than they are today.

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DenWil
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I realize what a tough question it was.
In reply to sportyaccordy, Nov 16, 2013

sportyaccordy wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

I see Canikon as the Fords and Vauxhalls of the camera world , with the smaller , more specialised makers such as Pentax and Hasselblad as the Mercedes or Porsche with better engineered products at each price point and ranges which go somewhat higher than the mainstream makes .

Hasselblad maybe, but Pentax offerings are right in line with CaNikon both in price and quality. Nikon has the top FX and DX DSLRs despite being the "Ford" of cameras. Pentax, Olympus etc are more like the Mazdas and Hyundais of the camera world.

Do folks actually  read the OP's freak'n question or just ignore it completely and write what they  want to write about when responding in this thread?

Hasselblad does not have a FF system.

Pentax does not have a FF system.

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denniswilliams

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Edwaste
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Re: Who's FF system will be in the best shape 5 years from now?
In reply to onlooker, Nov 16, 2013

onlooker wrote:

Edwaste wrote:

What has Canon and Nikon done to generate such excitement?

You mean excitement on a few photography forums? And how many of those "excited" are actually going to buy A7r?

How can I honestly answer a question based on a false assumption?

Look around. Maybe you haven't noticed. There's is plenty of excitement being generated by innovations by Olympus, Sony, Panasonic, etc. outside of these forums.

Onlooker...You still haven't answered my question...what has Canon and Nikon done lately?

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Reilly Diefenbach
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Re: Who's FF system will be in the best shape 5 years from now?
In reply to thothtp, Nov 16, 2013

Just get a D800/e and some decent lenses and call it good, because it most certainly will be five years hence.

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vzlnc
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Re: Who's FF system will be in the best shape 5 years from now?
In reply to Reilly Diefenbach, Nov 16, 2013

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

Just get a D800/e and some decent lenses and call it good, because it most certainly will be five years hence.

+1

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nuke12
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Re: Who's FF system will be in the best shape 5 years from now?
In reply to thothtp, Nov 16, 2013

I don't think Canon or Nikon are scared of the mirrorless market. They will produce a mirrorless FF camera when they feel they can provide a camera that is as good as their current DSLRs plus plus include the nice extra features of mirrorless. It's not like either can't make a mirrorless camera. They have been making them for years but with small sensors.

As for lenses, I think both would be foolish to drop their current mounts for a mirrorless body. What would be the point? The lenses would be slightly shorter but the over all weight would be pretty close to the same. Why p*ss off your current users and destroy the two best camera lens selections in the world?

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vzlnc
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Re: Who's FF system will be in the best shape 5 years from now?
In reply to Edwaste, Nov 16, 2013

Edwaste wrote:

My belief is that if you don't innovate...you die. So as far as I'm concerned Nikon and Canon are "dead men walking".

At best just old lumbering camera producers, waiting for other companies to innovate, and slowly adapting what works.

Most photographers stick with Nikon and Canon, because they are safe bets.

Sony, Panasonic, Olympus, and others are taking advantage of what digital camera design can be.

Canon and Nikon still make cameras designed with one foot still in the film era.

I was at first delighted to see Nikon put out something like the Df, until I realized it was Just an older camera with a retro shell. A fixed LCD, flipping mirror, etc.

Just a lame attempt to follow fashion.

I for one will be getting one of the Sony A7's. The combination of focus peaking, and the ability to fit on my old Olympus Zuiko OM lenses, (or ANY lens) has me really excited.

What has Canon and Nikon done to generate such excitement?

?

Please read the question again.

Okthnxbai.

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007peter
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more thins CHANGE, more they stay the SAME. 1. Canon 2. Nikon 3. Sony
In reply to Dennis, Nov 16, 2013

Dennis wrote:

My gut feeling is that Nikon & Canon will continue to dominate, but that the Sony FF system will become a strong 3rd place player.

Yup. That is how things are: the more they change, the more they stay the same:

Biggest DSLR (SLT) players:

  • Canon
  • Nikon
  • Sony (SLT)

Biggest Full Frame Camera

  • Canon
  • Nikon
  • Sony (new FE-mount)

5 years is a long time for sony to buildup a nice lens lineup.  The price of entry-level-FF will be less than $999 in 5 years (Sony A7 is already $1699 today)

When that happen: I expect the death of enthusiast APS-C and Micro43 that cost over $1000:

canon 7d, canon 70d, nikon d7200/7100/7000, Panasonic GH3/4/5, Olympus E-m1, m2, m3, m4

I also expect the continue erosion by Smartphone in 5 years:

point/shoot is deader than dead (like an iPOD / MP3 players)

Entry-Level-M43 and APS-C DSLR will be in danger dying as well:

As smartphone cpu grows faster, with more cores, more processing power, more memory, etc... People no longer feel the need to spend over $500 on any camera to take photo/video of their daughter/sons playing sports.  Today, I've seen many parents shoot 1080p action video instead of buying a bulky DSLR with continuous AF.  I predict this trend to continue, fast video is overtaking the need for DSLR in causal sports shoot for most family.  When that happen, the last advantage of DSLR is eliminated.  Mirrorless couldn't killed DSLR, but SmartPhone will kill everyone else.  I predict a future of only (1) smartphones and (2) FF camera.  Everything else get squeeze out by the market.

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Pontoneer
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Re: I realize what a tough question it was.
In reply to DenWil, Nov 16, 2013

sportyaccordy wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

I see Canikon as the Fords and Vauxhalls of the camera world , with the smaller , more specialised makers such as Pentax and Hasselblad as the Mercedes or Porsche with better engineered products at each price point and ranges which go somewhat higher than the mainstream makes .

Hasselblad maybe, but Pentax offerings are right in line with CaNikon both in price and quality. Nikon has the top FX and DX DSLRs despite being the "Ford" of cameras. Pentax, Olympus etc are more like the Mazdas and Hyundais of the camera world.

Do folks actually  read the OP's freak'n question or just ignore it completely and write what they  want to write about when responding in this thread?

Hasselblad does not have a FF system.

Pentax does not have a FF system.

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denniswilliams

FYI , I was replying to something written by another contributor - which is why I quoted the other contributor . It was not a response to the OP's question .

Actually , Hasselblad DOES have a FF system , based on a 6x6 MF frame , and it is highly probable that Pentax will have a 35mm digital FF system sometime next year , which will be fully compatible with their well established inventory of lenses and consolidated in 5 years time , as well as their existing MF and APSC systems .

There is a world of photography above and beyond 35mm
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With kind regards

Derek.

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Mr.NoFlash
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Why do you want FF ? Do you think you then make better photos ? [nt]
In reply to thothtp, Nov 16, 2013

Why do you want FF ? Do you think you then make better photos ? [nt]

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