I decided against the RX-10 for now. We will see.

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
phazelag
Senior MemberPosts: 2,342Gear list
Like?
I decided against the RX-10 for now. We will see.
11 months ago

Currently I am really into mobile and simple and I have the Panasonic LF1 for my pocket and just bought the Ricoh GR also for my pocket, and I figured I would use the RX10 for all else miscellaneous including portraits, sports, and macro.

I actually started selling my Micro Four thirds kit to buy it and did sell some lenses I plan to upgrade anyway, but then I saw better images to judge  the RX10 from and I like them, but not as much as my Micro Four thirds. So I took my GX-1 and my Olympus 45mm f1.8 off ebay and I plan to carry the Ricoh GR for wide shots, the Panasonic GX-1 and Olympus 45mm which is 90mm equivalent on a strap for portraits and I will just buy the Panasonic 14-140 f3.5-5.6 in a few month to put on it when I want the range.

I hate the lens change thing, so I was super excited about the RX10. The lens sharpness is nice, but the bokeh is not as pleasant as with my Micro Four Thirds primes and the images just don't look overall as clean.

I think the RX-10 is awesome and I would buy it if money was no object, but after buying the Ricoh GR for my pocket and being stunned by that quality, I don't want to step down on IQ for the all in one convenience. On the other hand there will probably be a ton of shots I won't get because I can't do it all at once with my various cameras and lenses.

 phazelag's gear list:phazelag's gear list
Sigma DP3 Merrill Ricoh GR Panasonic Lumix DMC-LF1 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 III Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ1000
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LF1 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
Donald Chin
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,318Gear list
Like?
Re: I decided against the RX-10 for now. We will see.
In reply to phazelag, 11 months ago

I've spent hours in Sony Store testing the RX10 and my conclusion is even the top of the line M43 like OM-D E-M1 has no real advantage in term of IQ, especially if you shoot raw.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
phazelag
Senior MemberPosts: 2,342Gear list
Like?
Re: I decided against the RX-10 for now. We will see.
In reply to Donald Chin, 11 months ago

Donald Chin wrote:

I've spent hours in Sony Store testing the RX10 and my conclusion is even the top of the line M43 like OM-D E-M1 has no real advantage in term of IQ, especially if you shoot raw.

-- hide signature --

Thanks, thats what I have been thinking, but I think its probably just the shallow DOF I must be missing.  When I look at the RX-10 test shots and then look at these below I took with my my GX-1, its just not wowing me.  That why I am giving it more time.  I think I need to see more portraits in good lights in the samples!

 phazelag's gear list:phazelag's gear list
Sigma DP3 Merrill Ricoh GR Panasonic Lumix DMC-LF1 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 III Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ1000
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Donald Chin
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,318Gear list
Like?
Re: I decided against the RX-10 for now. We will see.
In reply to phazelag, 11 months ago

phazelag wrote:

Donald Chin wrote:

I've spent hours in Sony Store testing the RX10 and my conclusion is even the top of the line M43 like OM-D E-M1 has no real advantage in term of IQ, especially if you shoot raw.

-- hide signature --

Thanks, thats what I have been thinking, but I think its probably just the shallow DOF I must be missing. When I look at the RX-10 test shots and then look at these below I took with my my GX-1, its just not wowing me. That why I am giving it more time. I think I need to see more portraits in good lights in the samples!

I don't see there's any difficult to reproduce the same or ever better result with the RX10, you were using the 20mm @ F1.7 for the first pic, 45mm @ F1.8 for the second one, just step back and use longer focal length in the RX10 and that's it. The third one was in 45mm F4.5, RX10 at 33mm is F2.8, definitely not a problem.

-- hide signature --
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
phazelag
Senior MemberPosts: 2,342Gear list
Like?
Re: I decided against the RX-10 for now. We will see.
In reply to Donald Chin, 11 months ago

phazelag wrote:

Donald Chin wrote:

I've spent hours in Sony Store testing the RX10 and my conclusion is even the top of the line M43 like OM-D E-M1 has no real advantage in term of IQ, especially if you shoot raw.

-- hide signature --

Thanks, thats what I have been thinking, but I think its probably just the shallow DOF I must be missing. When I look at the RX-10 test shots and then look at these below I took with my my GX-1, its just not wowing me. That why I am giving it more time. I think I need to see more portraits in good lights in the samples!

I don't see there's any difficult to reproduce the same or ever better result with the RX10, you were using the 20mm @ F1.7 for the first pic, 45mm @ F1.8 for the second one, just step back and use longer focal length in the RX10 and that's it. The third one was in 45mm F4.5, RX10 at 33mm is F2.8, definitely not a problem.

-- hide signature --

Thanks, I have been thinking that this whole time, but the bokeh in the portraits I saw were hit and miss. I would like to see a few more wide open at 200mm. I would like to have this one do it all camera.

 phazelag's gear list:phazelag's gear list
Sigma DP3 Merrill Ricoh GR Panasonic Lumix DMC-LF1 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 III Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ1000
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Donald Chin
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,318Gear list
Like?
Re: I decided against the RX-10 for now. We will see.
In reply to phazelag, 11 months ago

phazelag wrote:

phazelag wrote:

Donald Chin wrote:

I've spent hours in Sony Store testing the RX10 and my conclusion is even the top of the line M43 like OM-D E-M1 has no real advantage in term of IQ, especially if you shoot raw.

-- hide signature --

Thanks, thats what I have been thinking, but I think its probably just the shallow DOF I must be missing. When I look at the RX-10 test shots and then look at these below I took with my my GX-1, its just not wowing me. That why I am giving it more time. I think I need to see more portraits in good lights in the samples!

I don't see there's any difficult to reproduce the same or ever better result with the RX10, you were using the 20mm @ F1.7 for the first pic, 45mm @ F1.8 for the second one, just step back and use longer focal length in the RX10 and that's it. The third one was in 45mm F4.5, RX10 at 33mm is F2.8, definitely not a problem.

-- hide signature --

Thanks, I have been thinking that this whole time, but the bokeh in the portraits I saw were hit and miss. I would like to see a few more wide open at 200mm. I would like to have this one do it all camera.

Bokeh is in fact pretty good for a small sensor camera, even in front of the focusing point.

OCC JPG

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Greg Gebhardt
Forum ProPosts: 25,326Gear list
Like?
I am getting anyway even though the bokeh can be bad
In reply to phazelag, 11 months ago

I have seen more than one shot with poor bokeh but many without. It maybe trouble but not a deal breaker for me.

the RX10 have so many other good points for me.

-- hide signature --

Greg
Jax, FL

 Greg Gebhardt's gear list:Greg Gebhardt's gear list
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 Leica M9 Nikon D4 Nikon D800
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Red5TX
Senior MemberPosts: 1,586
Like?
Re: I am getting anyway even though the bokeh can be bad
In reply to Greg Gebhardt, 11 months ago

Greg Gebhardt wrote:

the RX10 have so many other good points for me.

Indeed.  It willl be a secondary camera for me, but an important one as I plan to use it for hiking, backpacking, and four-wheeling.  Weather sealing this camera was a surprising and important move on Sony's part.  I don't expect it is as hardcore as the Olympus E-M1 or Nikon AW1, but it should be more than enough for most outdoor use if you're careful with how you store it.  The range of the lens is perfect.  The built-in ND filter will allow it to be used wide open outdoors.  And the video will be great for capturing the occasional highlight.

The RX-10 is a brilliant adventure camera.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tbcass
Forum ProPosts: 18,175Gear list
Like?
Me too
In reply to phazelag, 11 months ago

I bought an A77 because for $900 now it is just too good a deal to pass up. I have an RX100 for my small camera. Once you get into the size of the RX10 I really don't care so the A77 being a lot larger doesn't matter to me.

-- hide signature --

Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels
------------
Miss use of the ability to do 100% pixel peeping is the bane of digital photography because it causes people to fret over inconsequential issues.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63683676@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

 tbcass's gear list:tbcass's gear list
Sony RX100 Sony SLT-A77 Tamron SP AF 90mm F/2.8 Di Macro Sony DT 35mm F1.8 SAM Tamron SP 70-300mm F/4-5.6 Di USD +6 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
forpetessake
Senior MemberPosts: 3,700
Like?
Re: I decided against the RX-10 for now. We will see.
In reply to Donald Chin, 11 months ago

Donald Chin wrote:

phazelag wrote:

Donald Chin wrote:

I've spent hours in Sony Store testing the RX10 and my conclusion is even the top of the line M43 like OM-D E-M1 has no real advantage in term of IQ, especially if you shoot raw.

-- hide signature --

Thanks, thats what I have been thinking, but I think its probably just the shallow DOF I must be missing. When I look at the RX-10 test shots and then look at these below I took with my my GX-1, its just not wowing me. That why I am giving it more time. I think I need to see more portraits in good lights in the samples!

I don't see there's any difficult to reproduce the same or ever better result with the RX10, you were using the 20mm @ F1.7 for the first pic, 45mm @ F1.8 for the second one, just step back and use longer focal length in the RX10 and that's it. The third one was in 45mm F4.5, RX10 at 33mm is F2.8, definitely not a problem.

No kidding, the RX10 lens is equivalent to f/7.6 FF lens, while Olympus is f/3.6 FF equivalent -- a huge difference in DOF and light gathering.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
skiphunt13
Senior MemberPosts: 2,478
Like?
Re: I decided against the RX-10 for now. We will see.
In reply to phazelag, 11 months ago

I agree with your apprehension. For $1300 I want to LOVE, not merely like this camera. For travel, it seems amazing... but the images so far... well, they're decent enough, but something is lacking.

They're sharp enough I suppose, but something is missing. Can't put my finger on it.

Am holding off and waiting for more real world samples first I think.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Donald Chin
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,318Gear list
Like?
Re: I decided against the RX-10 for now. We will see.
In reply to forpetessake, 11 months ago

forpetessake wrote:

Donald Chin wrote:

phazelag wrote:

Donald Chin wrote:

I've spent hours in Sony Store testing the RX10 and my conclusion is even the top of the line M43 like OM-D E-M1 has no real advantage in term of IQ, especially if you shoot raw.

-- hide signature --

Thanks, thats what I have been thinking, but I think its probably just the shallow DOF I must be missing. When I look at the RX-10 test shots and then look at these below I took with my my GX-1, its just not wowing me. That why I am giving it more time. I think I need to see more portraits in good lights in the samples!

I don't see there's any difficult to reproduce the same or ever better result with the RX10, you were using the 20mm @ F1.7 for the first pic, 45mm @ F1.8 for the second one, just step back and use longer focal length in the RX10 and that's it. The third one was in 45mm F4.5, RX10 at 33mm is F2.8, definitely not a problem.

No kidding, the RX10 lens is equivalent to f/7.6 FF lens, while Olympus is f/3.6 FF equivalent -- a huge difference in DOF and light gathering.

Did you know DOF is focal length related too? 

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
phazelag
Senior MemberPosts: 2,342Gear list
Like?
Yes I am familiar with that.
In reply to Donald Chin, 11 months ago

Yes I am very familiar DOF being related to focal length and proximity to the subject, but the images I saw of the Sony RX10 at 73mm which is its 200mm equiv at f2.8 looked horrible.  There were some good ones, but many had ugly circles.  My olympus XZ-1 Bokeh was nicer when you could get.  
It seems like most cameras you can get nice Bokeh if you're close to the subject with the RX10, but I can do that with my iphone.

iPhone:

This is the Sony RX-10 wide open f2.8 at 73.3mm or 200mm equiv

 phazelag's gear list:phazelag's gear list
Sigma DP3 Merrill Ricoh GR Panasonic Lumix DMC-LF1 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 III Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ1000
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
phazelag
Senior MemberPosts: 2,342Gear list
Like?
This is why I want it
In reply to Red5TX, 11 months ago

Red5TX wrote:

Greg Gebhardt wrote:

the RX10 have so many other good points for me.

Indeed. It willl be a secondary camera for me, but an important one as I plan to use it for hiking, backpacking, and four-wheeling. Weather sealing this camera was a surprising and important move on Sony's part. I don't expect it is as hardcore as the Olympus E-M1 or Nikon AW1, but it should be more than enough for most outdoor use if you're careful with how you store it. The range of the lens is perfect. The built-in ND filter will allow it to be used wide open outdoors. And the video will be great for capturing the occasional highlight.

The RX-10 is a brilliant adventure camera.

I agree on all your points.  I AM being picky here and I know it.  On one hand the Sony is a great bargain for what it would replace, but I am just not sure it really can replace my primary system yet.  And I can't justify it as another camera as, I have many other hobbies and my most recent toy secondary was the Ricoh GR.

 phazelag's gear list:phazelag's gear list
Sigma DP3 Merrill Ricoh GR Panasonic Lumix DMC-LF1 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 III Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ1000
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
phazelag
Senior MemberPosts: 2,342Gear list
Like?
Yes I want to love it but maybe I am being picky, but look at this.
In reply to skiphunt13, 11 months ago

skiphunt13 wrote:

I agree with your apprehension. For $1300 I want to LOVE, not merely like this camera. For travel, it seems amazing... but the images so far... well, they're decent enough, but something is lacking.

They're sharp enough I suppose, but something is missing. Can't put my finger on it.

Am holding off and waiting for more real world samples first I think.

I know I am being picky.  I still want this camera regardless, but not how I was hoping.   This is a good example where the images are clean, but the bokeh is ugly.  It looks like bokeh from a smaller sensor, oh yeah it is.  I was hoping it was big enough to make it smoother, but I think Micro Four thirds is just smoother.

 phazelag's gear list:phazelag's gear list
Sigma DP3 Merrill Ricoh GR Panasonic Lumix DMC-LF1 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 III Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ1000
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Donald Chin
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,318Gear list
Like?
Re: Yes I want to love it but maybe I am being picky, but look at this.
In reply to phazelag, 11 months ago

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Donald Chin
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,318Gear list
Like?
Re: Yes I am familiar with that.
In reply to phazelag, 11 months ago

phazelag wrote:

Yes I am very familiar DOF being related to focal length and proximity to the subject, but the images I saw of the Sony RX10 at 73mm which is its 200mm equiv at f2.8 looked horrible. There were some good ones, but many had ugly circles. My olympus XZ-1 Bokeh was nicer when you could get.
It seems like most cameras you can get nice Bokeh if you're close to the subject with the RX10, but I can do that with my iphone.

iPhone:

This is the Sony RX-10 wide open f2.8 at 73.3mm or 200mm equiv

IMO the RX10 doesn't look bad in comparing to those M43 zoom, it depends on whether it is in the right hand. BTW I'm even more picky if I talk about bokeh as I shoot FF wide open most of the time with 200/2, 300/2.8, 400/2.8 & 600/4 

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
harold1968
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,687Gear list
Like?
Re: I decided against the RX-10 for now. We will see.
In reply to phazelag, 11 months ago

phazelag wrote:

Currently I am really into mobile and simple and I have the Panasonic LF1 for my pocket and just bought the Ricoh GR also for my pocket, and I figured I would use the RX10 for all else miscellaneous including portraits, sports, and macro.

I actually started selling my Micro Four thirds kit to buy it and did sell some lenses I plan to upgrade anyway, but then I saw better images to judge the RX10 from and I like them, but not as much as my Micro Four thirds. So I took my GX-1 and my Olympus 45mm f1.8 off ebay and I plan to carry the Ricoh GR for wide shots, the Panasonic GX-1 and Olympus 45mm which is 90mm equivalent on a strap for portraits and I will just buy the Panasonic 14-140 f3.5-5.6 in a few month to put on it when I want the range.

I hate the lens change thing, so I was super excited about the RX10. The lens sharpness is nice, but the bokeh is not as pleasant as with my Micro Four Thirds primes and the images just don't look overall as clean.

I think the RX-10 is awesome and I would buy it if money was no object, but after buying the Ricoh GR for my pocket and being stunned by that quality, I don't want to step down on IQ for the all in one convenience. On the other hand there will probably be a ton of shots I won't get because I can't do it all at once with my various cameras and lenses.

that's the problem. Can't go below what you expect.

I think a Sony sensor M4/3s, or the new GX7, with the Panasonic 14-140mm can make a lot of sense as an alternative. Its nice to have constant f2.8 though. Life is all about choices ....

-- hide signature --

harold.co.il

 harold1968's gear list:harold1968's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS30 Sony RX1R Olympus E-M1 Sony Alpha 7 Sony FE 35mm F2.8 +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads