Any V3 or FT-2 Rumors?

Started Nov 13, 2013 | Discussions
bbbinohio
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Any V3 or FT-2 Rumors?
Nov 13, 2013

Just wondering if anyone has heard any V3 or FT-2 Rumors?

I would think that with Sony pushing the 1" sensor so hard, that it would help Nikon feel like the 1" sensor market might have serious long term potential.

Any good rumors???

Thanks!

B~

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WCguy
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Re: Any V3 or FT-2 Rumors?
In reply to bbbinohio, Nov 13, 2013

I think the only rumor is there are no rumors.I had serious thoughts of purchasing the new Sony A7 or A7r, but I am waiting to see if there will be a V3 first, so I wait patiently for the first rumor, then sweat it out, but in the mean time I watch jealously as all other camera manufacturers keep pumping out new cameras.

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Aspenz
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Re: Any V3 or FT-2 Rumors?
In reply to bbbinohio, Nov 13, 2013

Not sure if it constitutes as a 'good' rumour, but the admin at NR mentioned in a comment a week or two ago about a J4 coming out in January.

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jonikon
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Re: Any V3 or FT-2 Rumors?
In reply to WCguy, Nov 13, 2013

WCguy wrote:

... in the mean time I watch jealously as all other camera manufacturers keep pumping out new cameras.

Pumping out camera models is a good way to describe what is happening with the manufacturers right now, but the question is whether these cameras are actually any better or capable than existing models. I don't think so.  I am seeing a lot of stylized cameras built around the same sensors found in many different brands but not much in the way of improved IQ (Fujifilm being the exception), at base or high ISOs, or anyuseful innovative features. Right now the IQ is just going sideways and some of these pumped out cameras are lacking serious and desirable features like PDAF, which has been around for over a decade now in DSLRS.  I may be in the minority, but I am willing to wait for some qualitative improvements and not just something "pimped out".

- Jon

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WCguy
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Re: Any V3 or FT-2 Rumors?
In reply to jonikon, Nov 13, 2013

jonikon wrote:

WCguy wrote:

... in the mean time I watch jealously as all other camera manufacturers keep pumping out new cameras.

Pumping out camera models is a good way to describe what is happening with the manufacturers right now, but the question is whether these cameras are actually any better or capable than existing models. I don't think so. I am seeing a lot of stylized cameras built around the same sensors found in many different brands but not much in the way of improved IQ (Fujifilm being the exception), at base or high ISOs, or anyuseful innovative features. Right now the IQ is just going sideways and some of these pumped out cameras are lacking serious and desirable features like PDAF, which has been around for over a decade now in DSLRS. I may be in the minority, but I am willing to wait for some qualitative improvements and not just something "pimped out".

- Jon

I hear ya, and I feel the same way,my remark to being jealous, wasn't intended towards the brands but to the folks who are getting upgrades of sorts with in their collective brands and while I sit patiently waiting for the V3. I have had the V1 from the very start, one of the very first to get in Ontario, I like it a lot, but I am ready for the V3 (hopefully),  with all the lenses and equipment I have, I don't need to switch to any other small interchangable system.I don't think you are in the minority, there are many of us waiting patiently, as for myself, I am not a young man, so I hope they don't make me wait too much longer but until then , as you, I will make use of this wonderful little guy for now.Oh and did you mean pimped out or pumped out ?  LOL     W.C.

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NexMan
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Re: Any V3 or FT-2 Rumors?
In reply to WCguy, Nov 13, 2013

I just want a firmware update to make my v1 better...

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Rokey
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Re: Any V3 or FT-2 Rumors?
In reply to NexMan, Nov 13, 2013

NexMan wrote:

I just want a firmware update to make my v1 better...

Well, good luck with that . . .

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Johannes Zander
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Re: Any V3 or FT-2 Rumors?
In reply to NexMan, Nov 13, 2013

NexMan wrote:

I just want a firmware update to make my v1 better...

Me too!

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stefanik
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Re: Any V3 or FT-2 Rumors?
In reply to Aspenz, Nov 13, 2013

Aspenz wrote:

Not sure if it constitutes as a 'good' rumour, but the admin at NR mentioned in a comment a week or two ago about a J4 coming out in January.

If the "rethinked 1 system" is a J4 (no EVF) i'll probably go out ...

Bye

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andrbar
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Re: Any V3 or FT-2 Rumors?
In reply to stefanik, Nov 13, 2013

Aspenz wrote:

Not sure if it constitutes as a 'good' rumour, but the admin at NR mentioned in a comment a week or two ago about a J4 coming out in January.

If the "rethinked 1 system" is a J4 (no EVF) i'll probably go out ...

Bye

+1. No EVF is a no go gor me. But I doubt Nikon would remove the EVF from the 1 system.
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jonikon
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Re: Any V3 or FT-2 Rumors?
In reply to bbbinohio, Nov 15, 2013

I saw a Nikon patent for what looked like an improved FT-2 which would allow for more than just the center point for AF, but that's  about it.  Just my guess, but I don't believe there will be V3 until there is a new generation of sensor available for it. Unfortunately, the Sony 1" sensors can not do on-sensor PDAF, which rules them out as an option for Nikon 1 cameras.

- Jon

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DaveR43
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Re: Any V3 or FT-2 Rumors?
In reply to jonikon, Nov 15, 2013

jonikon wrote:

I saw a Nikon patent for what looked like an improved FT-2 which would allow for more than just the center point for AF, but that's about it. Just my guess, but I don't believe there will be V3 until there is a new generation of sensor available for it. Unfortunately, the Sony 1" sensors can not do on-sensor PDAF, which rules them out as an option for Nikon 1 cameras.

- Jon

I asked Bobn2 a related question some time ago, his response was:

'the PDAF system is their own [Nikon's], not Aptina's - so Nikon can apply it to any sensor they like.'

That being the case, Nikon could in principle use the Sony 1" sensor and still do on-sensor PDAF.

A mouth-watering thought!  I have an rx100 and also a V1 so would be very interested in a V3 with latest Sony sensor as used in the rx10 (Steve Huff's 64,000 ISO shots with the rx10 were quite amazing)

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Sonyshine
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Re: Any V3 or FT-2 Rumors?
In reply to DaveR43, Nov 15, 2013

DaveR43 wrote:

jonikon wrote:

I saw a Nikon patent for what looked like an improved FT-2 which would allow for more than just the center point for AF, but that's about it. Just my guess, but I don't believe there will be V3 until there is a new generation of sensor available for it. Unfortunately, the Sony 1" sensors can not do on-sensor PDAF, which rules them out as an option for Nikon 1 cameras.

- Jon

I asked Bobn2 a related question some time ago, his response was:

'the PDAF system is their own [Nikon's], not Aptina's - so Nikon can apply it to any sensor they like.'

That being the case, Nikon could in principle use the Sony 1" sensor and still do on-sensor PDAF.

A mouth-watering thought! I have an rx100 and also a V1 so would be very interested in a V3 with latest Sony sensor as used in the rx10 (Steve Huff's 64,000 ISO shots with the rx10 were quite amazing)

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DaveR

I'm not sure thats right - Nikon may own the software and patents for on sensor PDAF but the PDAF sensors still have to be physically built into the sensor.

So only the Aptina chip would work - of course who knows what the future holds! 

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steelhead3
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Re: Any V3 or FT-2 Rumors?
In reply to Sonyshine, Nov 15, 2013

Sony and Aptina (micron) signed an agreement to share technology and not sue each other over patent infringement.

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MattZisk
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Re: Any V3 or FT-2 Rumors?
In reply to Sonyshine, Nov 15, 2013

Sonyshine wrote:

DaveR43 wrote:

jonikon wrote:

I saw a Nikon patent for what looked like an improved FT-2 which would allow for more than just the center point for AF, but that's about it. Just my guess, but I don't believe there will be V3 until there is a new generation of sensor available for it. Unfortunately, the Sony 1" sensors can not do on-sensor PDAF, which rules them out as an option for Nikon 1 cameras.

- Jon

I asked Bobn2 a related question some time ago, his response was:

'the PDAF system is their own [Nikon's], not Aptina's - so Nikon can apply it to any sensor they like.'

That being the case, Nikon could in principle use the Sony 1" sensor and still do on-sensor PDAF.

A mouth-watering thought! I have an rx100 and also a V1 so would be very interested in a V3 with latest Sony sensor as used in the rx10 (Steve Huff's 64,000 ISO shots with the rx10 were quite amazing)

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DaveR

I'm not sure thats right - Nikon may own the software and patents for on sensor PDAF but the PDAF sensors still have to be physically built into the sensor.

So only the Aptina chip would work - of course who knows what the future holds!

Assuming you and others are correct about who owns the rights in the technology, Nikon will have licensed those rights to Aptina for development and manufacture.  Those types of licenses are sometimes exclusive (Nikon might have agreed to provide the rights only to Aptina), particularly when the supplier has been asked to put money into the development and tooling or other manufacturing facilities, and sometimes non-exclusive (so that Nikon could source from a different supplier).  Without some real information on the arrangement, it's hard to know what the parties have arranged.

Sony may also have an exclusive right to its chip for a limited or unlimited time, based on contract rather than patent rights

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jonikon
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Re: Any V3 or FT-2 Rumors?
In reply to steelhead3, Nov 16, 2013

steelhead3 wrote:

Sony and Aptina (micron) signed an agreement to share technology and not sue each other over patent infringement.

I think it is very strange that the largest manufacturer of imaging sensors in the world (Sony), buys into an agreement with the relatively small Aptina to share their technology. Based on what I have read, Nikon has developed  and owns the rights to the on-sensor PDAF used with the Aptina sensors in the Nikon 1 system cameras and Aptina just fabricates them for Nikon.   I know that Sony has been struggling for years to develop on-sensor PDAF and after failing, they developed the SLT with the "translucent" mirror to buy them some more time.  Only recently has Sony had some success with on sensor PDAF, (but not  as much as Nikon). It is probable that Sony is trying to obtain the Nikon technology through the back door of Aptina since that is the only thing Aptina has over the Sony sensors.

- Jon

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TrojMacReady
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False.
In reply to jonikon, Nov 16, 2013

Their SLT's predate their on sensor PDAF cameras and the same holds true for relevant patents.

But cool story.

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jonikon
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In reply to TrojMacReady, Nov 17, 2013

TrojMacReady wrote:

Their SLT's predate their on sensor PDAF cameras and the same holds true for relevant patents.

But cool story.

Did anyone ever say otherwise? Nicht mir! 

BTW, in case you missed the news,  it was Nikon, (sorry Sony guy!), who was first to bring a working on-sensor PDAF camera to market,with the introduction of their N1 cameras. 

- Jon

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TrojMacReady
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Yes you did
In reply to jonikon, Nov 17, 2013

jonikon wrote:

TrojMacReady wrote:

Their SLT's predate their on sensor PDAF cameras and the same holds true for relevant patents.

But cool story.

Did anyone ever say otherwise? Nicht mir!

Yes, you wrote that they had been struggling with on sensor PDAF for years and that only after failing, they introduced SLT as a stop gap. Fact is that their on sensor PDAF came years after SLT, not before.

Your German needs some polishing too by the way, but cool attempt!

BTW, in case you missed the news, it was Nikon, (sorry Sony guy!), who was first to bring a working on-sensor PDAF camera to market,with the introduction of their N1 cameras.

- Jon

Leave it to Jonikon to bring well known but irrelevant things to the table to distract from his failing theories.

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jonikon
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Re: Yes you did
In reply to TrojMacReady, Nov 17, 2013

TrojMacReady wrote:

jonikon wrote:

TrojMacReady wrote:

Their SLT's predate their on sensor PDAF cameras and the same holds true for relevant patents.

But cool story.

Did anyone ever say otherwise? Nicht mir!

Yes, you wrote that they had been struggling with on sensor PDAF for years and that only after failing, they introduced SLT as a stop gap. Fact is that their on sensor PDAF came years after SLT, not before.

You are editing my response, so I will re-post my words exactly here for you and have highlighted the words you so not understand, (probably due to the fact that I could have worded it better and also English is not your native language).

" I know that Sony has been struggling for years to develop on-sensor PDAF and after failing, they developed the SLT with the "translucent" mirror to buy them some more time." - Jon

I will re-word my sentence for you so you can better understand what thought I was trying to convey.

After failing to develop on sensor PDAF, Sony developed the SLT cameras with the translucent mirror to buy them some time to develop PDAF.

So my statement is accurate and we both agree that Sony's version of on-sensor PDAF came after their SLT cameras.

Your German needs some polishing too by the way, but cool attempt!

I did the "Nicht mir" as a subtle joke, because it was obvious you misunderstood my English!

BTW, in case you missed the news, it was Nikon, (sorry Sony guy!), who was first to bring a working on-sensor PDAF camera to market,with the introduction of their N1 cameras.

- Jon

Leave it to Jonikon to bring well known but irrelevant things to the table to distract from his failing theories.

It is unfortunate that you are so upset with my posts (based on user reviews), questioning the capabilities of the new Sony A7's on sensor PDAF, that you have followed me here to the Nikon forum and are trying to discredit me with personal attacks.

I can only imagine how mad you will be if the reviews of the new Sony A7's focusing are really bad! But please remember, it's not my fault if Sony has not had success with on-sensor PDAF technology!

BTW, is Sony payingyou to harass people that don't say nice things about Sony cameras on these forums? Just askin'!

- Jon

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