EM1 better than Sony A7(as a System)?

Started Nov 11, 2013 | Discussions
ianbrown
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EM1 better than Sony A7(as a System)?
Nov 11, 2013

Like  many I have a real dilemma about which one to buy?

I had an EM1 for a week and when I found out the A7 was about to be launched I sold the EM1, however after thinking long and hard about the two cameras I am starting to think that the lens options on the EM1 are swaying my decision, but can I resist the FF.

I mainly do Landscape and travel and I have been used to FF cameras in the past but really want to reduce the size where I can but without reducing IQ too much?

The upside of the A7 is purely IQ because DOF is not a priority for me but ISO does also give me about 2 stops advantage?

The lens options (for me) are limited, as I would only have the 28-70 which is not really wide enough and 3.5 - 5.6 is pretty slow. I know there is a 24-70 f4 available in about 3 months but even so it's not that fast and starting to get heavier! The Telephoto is also another issue, only a 70-200 which will be quit heavy and not available until May 2014.

I know you can use other lenses but that involves adaptor sand loss of AF etc

The EM1 does have some advantages, mainly lens selection. But just how much IQ does it sacrifice?

I already have a Panasonic 35-100 f 2.8 which is a pretty good lens

Anyone else  have this dilemma ?

Ian

Lab D
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Again? :( (nt)
In reply to ianbrown, Nov 11, 2013
No text.
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Butoa
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Re: EM1 better than Sony A7(as a System)?
In reply to ianbrown, Nov 11, 2013

ianbrown wrote:

I found out the A7 was about to be launched I sold the EM1

How many cameras did you buy and sell in the past 3 years. From posting history it appears to be between 20 to 30? Or is it more?

I suggest just stop wasting money on buying and selling cameras every time a new one is announced, and find some other hobby that doesn't entice you to switch that much gear. Fishing? Running? You will be happier.

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gnewsch
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Re: EM1 better than Sony A7(as a System)?
In reply to Butoa, Nov 11, 2013

Hate to say that, but I keep thinking some people here actually do need professional help with their G.A.S....

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ianbrown
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Re: EM1 better than Sony A7(as a System)?
In reply to Butoa, Nov 11, 2013

Butoa wrote:

ianbrown wrote:

I found out the A7 was about to be launched I sold the EM1

How many cameras did you buy and sell in the past 3 years. From posting history it appears to be between 20 to 30? Or is it more?

I suggest just stop wasting money on buying and selling cameras every time a new one is announced, and find some other hobby that doesn't entice you to switch that much gear. Fishing? Running? You will be happier.

Thanks but I already do running and fishing, can you think of anything else?

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ianbrown
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Re: EM1 better than Sony A7(as a System)?
In reply to gnewsch, Nov 11, 2013

gnewsch wrote:

Hate to say that, but I keep thinking some people here actually do need professional help with their G.A.S....

I love GAS

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Cane
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Re: EM1 better than Sony A7(as a System)?
In reply to ianbrown, Nov 11, 2013

ianbrown wrote:

Butoa wrote:

ianbrown wrote:

I found out the A7 was about to be launched I sold the EM1

How many cameras did you buy and sell in the past 3 years. From posting history it appears to be between 20 to 30? Or is it more?

I suggest just stop wasting money on buying and selling cameras every time a new one is announced, and find some other hobby that doesn't entice you to switch that much gear. Fishing? Running? You will be happier.

Thanks but I already do running and fishing, can you think of anything else?

Posting on gear forums? Oh wait, you got that one covered.

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David Kieltyka
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For what purpose?
In reply to ianbrown, Nov 11, 2013

What is the ultimate purpose of your photos? If prints then what's the maximum size you typically print at?

I print no larger than 15x20" or 14x21"...sometimes 15x40" or so on roll paper, but those are stitched panos. All of my interchangeable lens cameras are more than up to this task. In most cases the only difference I can see between a Pentax 645D print and an E-M5 print, both 15x20", is in the color/tonal rendition. Even then neither is better per se, just different. In photos with lots of fine detail the Pentax will make a crisper print, but this is noticeable only if you compare 'em side by side at close range. At normal viewing distances you can't see it.

I make it a point not to buy into the promiseof a new camera system. I waited with m43 until the lens lineup had filled out and Oly & Pany had both released mature cameras. I waited with the Pentax until the price dropped.    Sony's A7r intrigues me on a few different levels, but IMO the lens lineup just isn't there yet. I'll wait 'til it is (if it ever is), then take a closer look.

Now if electronic display is your "final destination" then any system from the better compacts on up will do the job. Pick one with features, lenses & handling you like and have at it.

-Dave-

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jalywol
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Re: EM1 better than Sony A7(as a System)?
In reply to ianbrown, Nov 11, 2013

ianbrown wrote:

Like many I have a real dilemma about which one to buy?

I had an EM1 for a week and when I found out the A7 was about to be launched I sold the EM1, however after thinking long and hard about the two cameras I am starting to think that the lens options on the EM1 are swaying my decision, but can I resist the FF.

I mainly do Landscape and travel and I have been used to FF cameras in the past but really want to reduce the size where I can but without reducing IQ too much?

The upside of the A7 is purely IQ because DOF is not a priority for me but ISO does also give me about 2 stops advantage?

The lens options (for me) are limited, as I would only have the 28-70 which is not really wide enough and 3.5 - 5.6 is pretty slow. I know there is a 24-70 f4 available in about 3 months but even so it's not that fast and starting to get heavier! The Telephoto is also another issue, only a 70-200 which will be quit heavy and not available until May 2014.

I know you can use other lenses but that involves adaptor sand loss of AF etc

The EM1 does have some advantages, mainly lens selection. But just how much IQ does it sacrifice?

I already have a Panasonic 35-100 f 2.8 which is a pretty good lens

Anyone else have this dilemma ?

Ian, I (briefly) considered the Sonys, but the lenses are not there for it AND they are going to be much larger than the M43 lenses (and expensive), so I decided that M43 is where I will stay.  I even figured out what I am going to do to pare down what I have, to just above the minimum.

I am going to have the EM1 as my sole body, the 12-40mm, the 25mm f1.4, the cheap Oly 40-150mm, and the Panasonic 100-300mm as my all purpose kit.  I will probably also keep the 14mm, as I like it and it makes no sense to sell it, since it was one of the inexpensive dekitted ones from Ebay.  I may or may not keep the 12mm f2.0; if the 12-40mm performs as well as it does, I could see selling it.

What I will definitely sell:  The EPM2, the VF4, the 14-42mm kit lens, the 45mm f1.8, the 14-140mm zoom.

What I probably will acquire:  The Zuiko 50mm f2.0 macro (it will replace the 45mm f1.8 AND my old Nikon 55mm macro lens).

The basic kit that I am left with will fit into one small bag with one external lens bag (for the 100-300mm), and it is small and light enough to go anywhere and give me complete coverage.  If I want to take ALL the lenses with me, then a very small accessory bag extra will take care of that.

Can't beat that for size and performance....

-J

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Brian Caslis
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Re: EM1 better than Sony A7(as a System)?
In reply to ianbrown, Nov 11, 2013

Maybe rather than comparing to a camera you can't try out in a store yet, you should focus on a different question. You have the E-M1, right? Do you like it? Do you like the pictures it takes? If yes, then take more pictures and improve. If you don't, sell it and get the Sony when available. I'm intrigued by the Sony but having been down this path with both the NEX-7 (not enough lenses, issues with EVF, etc...) and E-M5 (didn't like the buttons and some of the firmware issues) I'm resolved to not buying a system until I can try it. I was able to try the E-M1 before picking up the pre-order I put in for it. I love the body of this camera more than just about any camera I've had. Would I like better high ISO and more resolution? Sure. But it works pretty darn good. To be honest I still struggle with the 4:3 format, just looks wrong to me after always using 3:2. When the Sony becomes available I will try it out. My guess is that it probably won't change anything so I'll stick with the E-M1 until then at least.

Less gear and more pictures. Helps your wallet also.

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Neurad1
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Re: EM1 better than Sony A7(as a System)?
In reply to gnewsch, Nov 11, 2013

gnewsch wrote:

Hate to say that, but I keep thinking some people here actually do need professional help with their G.A.S....

I know that I do

Question to ask self (which I never do): Is the weakest link in the quality of my photographic output my camera? Really? Have I truly mastered the camera I have?

If the answer is no, go out and shoot.

Now I'm not saying I obey these rules. My new E-M1 arrives tomorrow. But I suspect I will buy a compact FF camera when the technology has matured and there are lots of good lens choices.

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Moti
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Re: EM1 better than Sony A7(as a System)?
In reply to ianbrown, Nov 11, 2013

ianbrown wrote:

Butoa wrote:

ianbrown wrote:

I found out the A7 was about to be launched I sold the EM1

How many cameras did you buy and sell in the past 3 years. From posting history it appears to be between 20 to 30? Or is it more?

I suggest just stop wasting money on buying and selling cameras every time a new one is announced, and find some other hobby that doesn't entice you to switch that much gear. Fishing? Running? You will be happier.

Thanks but I already do running and fishing, can you think of anything else?

How about knitting? Less expensive less stressing and you can even make good use of your art production which is not the case with photography.

Moti

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Moti
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In reply to ianbrown, Nov 11, 2013

ianbrown wrote:

Anyone else have this dilemma ?

No. Most of us think before we buy.

Moti

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Neurad1
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Re: EM1 better than Sony A7(as a System)?
In reply to ianbrown, Nov 11, 2013

ianbrown wrote:

Like many I have a real dilemma about which one to buy?

I had an EM1 for a week and when I found out the A7 was about to be launched I sold the EM1, however after thinking long and hard about the two cameras I am starting to think that the lens options on the EM1 are swaying my decision, but can I resist the FF.

I mainly do Landscape and travel and I have been used to FF cameras in the past but really want to reduce the size where I can but without reducing IQ too much?

The upside of the A7 is purely IQ because DOF is not a priority for me but ISO does also give me about 2 stops advantage?

The lens options (for me) are limited, as I would only have the 28-70 which is not really wide enough and 3.5 - 5.6 is pretty slow. I know there is a 24-70 f4 available in about 3 months but even so it's not that fast and starting to get heavier! The Telephoto is also another issue, only a 70-200 which will be quit heavy and not available until May 2014.

I know you can use other lenses but that involves adaptor sand loss of AF etc

The EM1 does have some advantages, mainly lens selection. But just how much IQ does it sacrifice?

I already have a Panasonic 35-100 f 2.8 which is a pretty good lens

Anyone else have this dilemma ?

Ian

I understand your pain. This whole GAS thing is a product of the "interwebs" and our desk jobs that allow surfing while at work. We spend more time reading and thinking about gear (and to a lesser degree about actual photography) than doing photography. It's just the way it is for most of us. It's hard to avoid the thought that a better camera will make us a better photographer, but it just isn't so. I was out shooting this weekend and realized that I was making reallystupid rookie errors (keeping ISO too low in poorly lit situations leading to excessively long exposures and blurred images, or using a stupidly small aperture and paying with diffraction, etc, etc.). Getting out and shooting, then thinking about your shots and learning from your mistakes is 95% of the job. The quality of your equipment pales by comparison.

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Neurad1
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In reply to Moti, Nov 11, 2013

Moti wrote:

ianbrown wrote:

Anyone else have this dilemma ?

No. Most of us think before we buy.

Moti

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Speak for yourself

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TClair
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Re: EM1 better than Sony A7(as a System)?
In reply to ianbrown, Nov 11, 2013

WOW I though I had issues...  That said I have been down that path and it can be a slippery slope.  I am happy with the m4/3 cameras and the system as a hole.  Of course I would like higher ISO quality and sharper images but I'm not sure I really need them.  I have great 13X19 images hanging on the wall and I can work with the m4/3 sensors.  Find a system and stick to it.  The m4/3 system is still maturing and I believe it will get better probably with the new sensor technologies coming soon.  This way you will have collected a good lens set and be ready.

Now I'm going to go read a review on the A7... damn.

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tgutgu
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Re: EM1 better than Sony A7(as a System)?
In reply to ianbrown, Nov 11, 2013

To me A7 is not an option, because currently the new FE system does not have enough lens choices and IQ of  current m4/3 is enough for me (printing on my Epson 3800 up to A2).  I definitely prefer the design and ergonomics of the E-M1, to me a lot of controls of the A7 (incl. the shutter release) look misplaced and require a change of hand position. I probably could accept the new 4/24-70mm, but I prefer the concept of the Olympus 12-40mm with its retractable focus ring. The Sony 4/70-200mm is absolutely no go for me, due to it's very conspicuous white color, not very stealthy. I would prefer the Olympus 2.8/40-150mm, which should not be a lot bigger, if at all. I would not count that announced lenses will be available as announced. With m4/3, you know, what you can have now.

Additionally, mirrorless FF is a new category. Before I consider any heavy investment, I would wait, what other vendors will do, so that there is competition. Mirrorless FF will be financially a lot more demanding than m4/3, so that decisions should be made with care, to protect you against a wrong investment,

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Thomas

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jkrumm
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Re: EM1 better than Sony A7(as a System)?
In reply to ianbrown, Nov 11, 2013

I would not worry so much about  the high iso performance of the EM1. I'm seeing very good results. Mainly I'd say it comes down to wanting the resolution, DR, color depth and decreased depth of field that full frame has, at the cost of limited small lens choices.

If I were happy with a couple lenses and I took mostly environmental portraits and landscapes and wanted the highest possible image quality in a light package, I'd consider the Sony with the 35 2.8 and maybe the too expensive 50mm 1.8 and hope they come out with a small wider prime. You could do a lot with those two lenses, and use a light travel tripod.

But it has a loud shutter, and no IBIS. I think I'd have to try both cameras to know for sure.

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John Krumm
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Moti
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Re: EM1 better than Sony A7(as a System)?
In reply to Neurad1, Nov 11, 2013

Neurad1 wrote:

ianbrown wrote:

Like many I have a real dilemma about which one to buy?

I had an EM1 for a week and when I found out the A7 was about to be launched I sold the EM1, however after thinking long and hard about the two cameras I am starting to think that the lens options on the EM1 are swaying my decision, but can I resist the FF.

I mainly do Landscape and travel and I have been used to FF cameras in the past but really want to reduce the size where I can but without reducing IQ too much?

The upside of the A7 is purely IQ because DOF is not a priority for me but ISO does also give me about 2 stops advantage?

The lens options (for me) are limited, as I would only have the 28-70 which is not really wide enough and 3.5 - 5.6 is pretty slow. I know there is a 24-70 f4 available in about 3 months but even so it's not that fast and starting to get heavier! The Telephoto is also another issue, only a 70-200 which will be quit heavy and not available until May 2014.

I know you can use other lenses but that involves adaptor sand loss of AF etc

The EM1 does have some advantages, mainly lens selection. But just how much IQ does it sacrifice?

I already have a Panasonic 35-100 f 2.8 which is a pretty good lens

Anyone else have this dilemma ?

Ian

I understand your pain. This whole GAS thing is a product of the "interwebs" and our desk jobs that allow surfing while at work. We spend more time reading and thinking about gear (and to a lesser degree about actual photography) than doing photography. It's just the way it is for most of us.

Speak for yourself...  

Moti

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Jon Ragnarsson
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I understand your dilemma...
In reply to ianbrown, Nov 11, 2013

The A7R especially is almost my dream camera. Big sensor, compact, plenty of resolution, but it is still missing a few compact lenses, and the overall cost of the system goes up fast.

Personally, I have no problem with MF on legacy lenses, and there are some decent lenses out there:

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/the-a7r-super-legacy-lens-test-a-must-see/

But the question is, are they good enough? Even "low resolution" FF camera like the Canon 5Diii with it's relatively low 22MP sensor needs a very sharp glass to make full use of all that pixels you need really sharp glass. I didn't believe it until I saw a side-by-side comparison of 24-70L and Zeiss 24mm prime. 5D really needed every sharpness it could get.

So my lust for the A7R has cooled down a little bit, at least until I see some real lens test. Besides, 16MP gos a long way, actually.

But yes, Sony did fill a huge gap in the market with those cameras.

P.S.  But as a whole system, the E-M1 is much better. It pretty much has everything you could need. Even G-M1 as a pocket backup...

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