New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
jpr2
Forum ProPosts: 13,732
Like?
re: A7's DNA
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, 9 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

GXRuser wrote:

well, I am hoping for an A5 with an APS-C sensor in a A7 sized body... much thinner than the a3000 body.

...is neither necessary for a RF-like APS-C E-mount body (both APS-C sensor and EVF can be easily fitted into the small N7 body, and no humps are necessary), nor desirable:

it will only make the whole larger, but nothing will be gained

Which is why I find these ideas about Sony not continuing with RF form as being wild imaginations of a few much less with the frequency we see threads created on the subject.

Do you have any evidence that they will continue the APS-C RF form? It would be nice at this point in the discussion. Do you have any insight into when the long-overdue NEX-7 rangefinder update model, under any name, will finally be introduced? (Even SAR has given up on that one.) Are are you just taking Sony on faith that whatever they do or don't do, it will always be a happy outcome. Are you a BELIEVER?

Look at A7. It combines NEX-7 form with RX1 w/EVF. If you believe Sony were now going for DSLR form, you would see something like A7000 instead.

the only thing I recognize in A7 form which looks like being [partially] of N7's DNA is perhaps its grip. All the rest has the mark of RX-1 pedigree, plus rather unfortunate faux-pentaprism hump. I can recognize a dilemma they had to solve of how to fit EVF and FF sensor into as small form as possible, do for FF this is it and in all probability it is going to stay for further FF cameras' updates as well.

But...  there is absolutely no reason to enforce the same form and esp. that ugly bulge also on the N7 mk-ii, which already shown that all components can be packed together into very much smaller & compact body. So... thank you, but I firmly prefer for it to stay that way.

In other words - for me the N7's form represents RF-like style, but A7's doesn't = in is NOT RF-like any longer, alas !!

SAR is a rumor site that posts guess work and bits of info from various sources.

How many of those various sources might be residing outside of the S's realm?? NIL if you ask me.  But even if there were any, their credibility is NIL as well - this is why you have there designations for grading their sources: from S0 to S5. But actually I do agree with the voices rised here saying that the SAR site is being very smartly and efficiently used by Sony to feed us only the tidbits they want us to hear and see... unofficially !!

jpr2

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
EinsteinsGhost
Forum ProPosts: 10,872Gear list
Like?
Re: re: A7's DNA
In reply to jpr2, 9 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

GXRuser wrote:

well, I am hoping for an A5 with an APS-C sensor in a A7 sized body... much thinner than the a3000 body.

...is neither necessary for a RF-like APS-C E-mount body (both APS-C sensor and EVF can be easily fitted into the small N7 body, and no humps are necessary), nor desirable:

it will only make the whole larger, but nothing will be gained

Which is why I find these ideas about Sony not continuing with RF form as being wild imaginations of a few much less with the frequency we see threads created on the subject.

Do you have any evidence that they will continue the APS-C RF form? It would be nice at this point in the discussion. Do you have any insight into when the long-overdue NEX-7 rangefinder update model, under any name, will finally be introduced? (Even SAR has given up on that one.) Are are you just taking Sony on faith that whatever they do or don't do, it will always be a happy outcome. Are you a BELIEVER?

Look at A7. It combines NEX-7 form with RX1 w/EVF. If you believe Sony were now going for DSLR form, you would see something like A7000 instead.

the only thing I recognize in A7 form which looks like being [partially] of N7's DNA is perhaps its grip. All the rest has the mark of RX-1 pedigree, plus rather unfortunate faux-pentaprism hump. I can recognize a dilemma they had to solve of how to fit EVF and FF sensor into as small form as possible, do for FF this is it and in all probability it is going to stay for further FF cameras' updates as well.

But...  there is absolutely no reason to enforce the same form and esp. that ugly bulge also on the N7 mk-ii, which already shown that all components can be packed together into very much smaller & compact body. So... thank you, but I firmly prefer for it to stay that way.

In other words - for me the N7's form represents RF-like style, but A7's doesn't = in is NOT RF-like any longer, alas !!

SAR is a rumor site that posts guess work and bits of info from various sources.

How many of those various sources might be residing outside of the S's realm?? NIL if you ask me.  But even if there were any, their credibility is NIL as well - this is why you have there designations for grading their sources: from S0 to S5. But actually I do agree with the voices rised here saying that the SAR site is being very smartly and efficiently used by Sony to feed us only the tidbits they want us to hear and see... unofficially !!

jpr2

And I doubt they will. The FF sensor necessitated that, but given how tightly Sony has packed NEX (and now A7) bodies, they seem to be very focused on making it a common design element and with 6/7 bodies being larger than 3/5 to begin with, they have the room. Now it is possible that Sony chooses to go the more compact route of 3/5 bodies then to put EVF, an A7 like hump will become necessary. We saw this in some old rangefinders too.

 EinsteinsGhost's gear list:EinsteinsGhost's gear list
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-F828 Sony SLT-A55 Sony Alpha NEX-6 Sigma 18-250mm F3.5-6.3 DC OS HSM Sony 135mm F2.8 (T4.5) STF +12 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
nevercat
Senior MemberPosts: 2,213
Like?
Re: re: A7's DNA
In reply to jpr2, 9 months ago

jpr2 wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

GXRuser wrote:

well, I am hoping for an A5 with an APS-C sensor in a A7 sized body... much thinner than the a3000 body.

...is neither necessary for a RF-like APS-C E-mount body (both APS-C sensor and EVF can be easily fitted into the small N7 body, and no humps are necessary), nor desirable:

it will only make the whole larger, but nothing will be gained

Which is why I find these ideas about Sony not continuing with RF form as being wild imaginations of a few much less with the frequency we see threads created on the subject.

Do you have any evidence that they will continue the APS-C RF form? It would be nice at this point in the discussion. Do you have any insight into when the long-overdue NEX-7 rangefinder update model, under any name, will finally be introduced? (Even SAR has given up on that one.) Are are you just taking Sony on faith that whatever they do or don't do, it will always be a happy outcome. Are you a BELIEVER?

Look at A7. It combines NEX-7 form with RX1 w/EVF. If you believe Sony were now going for DSLR form, you would see something like A7000 instead.

the only thing I recognize in A7 form which looks like being [partially] of N7's DNA is perhaps its grip. All the rest has the mark of RX-1 pedigree, plus rather unfortunate faux-pentaprism hump. I can recognize a dilemma they had to solve of how to fit EVF and FF sensor into as small form as possible, do for FF this is it and in all probability it is going to stay for further FF cameras' updates as well.

The for of the A7 is very much driven by functionality. The larger EVF, larger LCD and the larger sensor, all asked for by Nex user, reviewers and potentional buyers, makes no room for the EVF to be placed at the same side as in the Nex 7 without creating a much wider camera. S o the EVF was placed at the top in a n elegant way (better then what Nikon did in their 1 series camera with buildin EVF.

Thereis a possability that Sony will come with a Nex 7 successor that will have the large LCD and EVF as the A7, then the formfactor has to be the same as the A7. There is also a change that Sony will keep the formfactor of the Nex 7 and keep the smaller LCD and EVF, in both cases there will be people happy and there will be people dissapointed...

So maybe  Sony wants to make both groups happy and sell cameras in both styles...

SAR is a rumor site that posts guess work and bits of info from various sources.

How many of those various sources might be residing outside of the S's realm??NIL if you ask me. But even if there were any, their credibility is NIL as well - this is why you have there designations for grading their sources: from S0 to S5. But actually I do agree with the voices rised here saying that the SAR site is being very smartly and efficiently used by Sony to feed us only the tidbits they want us to hear and see... unofficially !!

Given how often the sources have been wrong, I think many are outside the Sony realm. Yes maybe Sony uses SAR for leaks, but these leaks are given only a few days befor the announcement.

jpr2

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
nevercat
Senior MemberPosts: 2,213
Like?
Re: re: as the "old" Nex-7 amply attested the faux-pentaprim hump...
In reply to parallaxproblem, 9 months ago

parallaxproblem wrote:

nevercat wrote:

and yet... it is a fact = the a3k is here, the Nex name is no more, and so far nothing in the RF-form... is even rumored

The only realy shoking, that I did not expect was the end of the Nex brand, but Sony said clearly that the Nex was rebranded, so I see no problem there.

When Kentucky Fried Chicken rebranded themselves to KFC did they just mumble "our restaurants will be called KFC from now on" and leave it at that?

No, they launched an enormous, international media and television campaign to explain to their customers that the change did not mean that the stores were going to change in any way

Well this is totaly BS. Rebranding a store chain is much different then dropping a name given to a range of cameras.

Nobody expects a TV campaign from Sony, but all of their current Emount customers (except those who bought the VG or A3000 cameras) bought into NEX and deserve a brief confirmation of what that rebranding the system they bought-into actually means in practice

Well in fact they told you a whole lot:

they told you that the nex range was rebranded to Alpha, a name even my Nex 5 had from the beginning. Look close at the word rebranded, they did not say Nex is dead, they said Nex is rebranded.... So from that word alone you can see Sony is not dropping the Nex range.

And now we have one... SAR have told us that 'sources' (ie. Sony as only they could know, unless SAR are lying or very stupid) say that more A3000 like E-mount cameras will be launched next year

Buteven you can become a SAR source when you want. When you are right one or two times, you become relyable....

So unless you think Sony will release more than one (they said cameraS) big DSLR body APS-C emount camera and an RF body (ie. at least three new APS-C bodies along with the A3000 next year) it means no more rangefinder bodies for APS-C

Andhere you lose me! So Sony is releasing more DSLR lookalike cameras next year, how does that tells you that there will be no more RF syled cameras anymore? SAR also told that there will be more FF cameras (yes the said cameras, so more then one) next year, does that imply there will be no more APS cameras? All thes hysteria is completly over the top. Lets enjoy our beatifull cameras, lets tell Sony we like the RF styled cameras and we will see what Next year will bring. Personaly I think we will see at least two RF styled cameras, the successors of the Nex 5t and the Nex 6...

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
nevercat
Senior MemberPosts: 2,213
Like?
Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to parallaxproblem, 9 months ago

parallaxproblem wrote:

areichow wrote:

Finally, the voice of reason.

No, the voice of 'comfort'

And that makes your posts the voice of discomfort?

Or makes that  your post the voice of panic?

I know what voice I want to be! The voice smart guys are calling the voice of reason and the rest the voice of comfort, both good things in my book

Not necessarily the same thing...

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jpr2
Forum ProPosts: 13,732
Like?
re: THREE distinct lines then...
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, 9 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

it will only make the whole larger, but nothing will be gained

the only thing I recognize in A7 form which looks like being [partially] of N7's DNA is perhaps its grip. All the rest has the mark of RX-1 pedigree, plus rather unfortunate faux-pentaprism hump. I can recognize a dilemma they had to solve of how to fit EVF and FF sensor into as small form as possible, do for FF this is it and in all probability it is going to stay for further FF cameras' updates as well.

But... there is absolutely no reason to enforce the same form and esp. that ugly bulge also on the N7 mk-ii, which already shown that all components can be packed together into very much smaller & compact body. So... thank you, but I firmly prefer for it to stay that way.

In other words - for me the N7's form represents RF-like style, but A7's doesn't = in is NOT RF-like any longer, alas !!

SAR is a rumor site that posts guess work and bits of info from various sources.

How many of those various sources might be residing outside of the S's realm??NIL if you ask me. But even if there were any, their credibility is NIL as well - this is why you have there designations for grading their sources: from S0 to S5. But actually I do agree with the voices rised here saying that the SAR site is being very smartly and efficiently used by Sony to feed us only the tidbits they want us to hear and see... unofficially !!

And I doubt they will. The FF sensor necessitated that, but given how tightly Sony has packed NEX (and now A7) bodies, they seem to be very focused on making it a common design element and with 6/7 bodies being larger than 3/5 to begin with, they have the room. Now it is possible that Sony chooses to go the more compact route of 3/5 bodies then to put EVF, an A7 like hump will become necessary. We saw this in some old rangefinders too.

what is becoming increasingly more and more obvious:

  • there seem to be three groups of prospective users for slightly [or actually not so slightly - the outward differences are pretty significant] APS-C E-mount bodies,
  • each of them declaring different preferences, exactly like on these pics. above:
  • [a] keep the current N7-like form;
  • [b] give us a midget-DSLR;
  • or [c] we'd love that the new APS-C will be given A7-like shape = significantly bigger, but perhaps with a larger LCD and improved eye-relief optics for VF;

so the question is - not technically, as whatever would be possible to be tightly packed into the [a] should face no problems for redistribution of components into [b] or [c] - do they have the resources and logistics to deal with three distinct lines of APS-Cs??

And the political will to expand the market into diverging directions?? I think that logistics and marketing will be the key areas, but then I'm not a specialist

jpr2

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Jerry R
Veteran MemberPosts: 6,742
Like?
Does not say there will not be additional NEX type bodies.
In reply to parallaxproblem, 9 months ago
-- hide signature --

Canon A2E, Sony R1, Panny TZ5, NEX C3 & 5R + Zeiss 24mm E Lens, Nikon D5100

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Tone Row
Regular MemberPosts: 334Gear list
Like?
Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to parallaxproblem, 9 months ago

parallaxproblem wrote:

I can't insert the link here, but if you go to SAR and look at the comments under the latest A3000 article you will see the following:

@admin “I am pretty sure more of this kind of DSLR shaped E-mount cameras will come in 2014″ form Infos from your sources or it is a “felling”?

Reply (from admin): sources

Do you love Sony enough to suffer lugging around an A3000 type monster around as your next camera?

So, the source you are using to push your sky is falling agenda is an anonymous poster commenting on a story on a rumor site.

Priceless.

 Tone Row's gear list:Tone Row's gear list
Sony SLT-A55 NEX5R
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
parallaxproblem
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,666
Like?
Re: re: could you please expound a bit??
In reply to 120 to 35, 9 months ago

120 to 35 wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...to replace the so far reigning RF-like little bricks of [former] Nex'es, but I think they are in a teeny-weeny minority, at least if this little poll can be taken as measuring correct temperatures . As all indifferent and "don't care" will fall into that last category of 7%:

What is the camera you are hoping to see in February?

  • New FF A-mount - 40%, 2,658 Votes
  • New NEX-7 alike FF E-mount - 29%, 1,979 Votes
  • New APS-C A-mount - 22%, 1,510 Votes
  • NEX-7 upgrade - 22%, 1,480 Votes
  • New RX2 - 8%, 564 Votes
  • New APS-C E-mount compact camera - 7%, 493 Votes

Total Voters: 6,724

Is the overall 51% asking for N7 mk-II with either FF or APS-C sensor a result which will sway Sony in favor to keep the Nex-like form factor alive?

Perhaps not, but... WHAT ELSE can we do except voicing our concerns and hopes?!!

So, I think that anyone telling the OP to shut up and go away is not only uncivil and outright vulgar, but more importantly they're doing a gross disservice to their best interest and hopes !!

jpr2

Opinion polls are always conducted on a sample of those involved. The poll is certainly not representative of new customers who do not own a Sony camera and do not visit a rumor site about Sony. It is representative of existing owners, especially those interested in new models.

I agree the existing fans of RF style cameras should make their views heard, repeatedly if necessary, in a positive way. I recall you have done this positively on a few occasions.

But when some of the posts look completely anti-Sony they are harming the "campaign" if there is one.

In recent weeks I have commented on some of those opinion threads with a more positive view about the prospects of E-mount cameras. Many others have done the same. But it seems negative posters are not really interested in other users opinions and repeat the harmful anti-Sony message whenever there is an opportunity.

So I no longer believe them when they say they are concerned about themselves and us as users.

in which way voicing these concerns can be seen as "negative"?

After all it is Sony decision makers & marketing who are committing a PR suicide by keeping mum, while a single reassurance: "yes, we're going to continue with NEX-like form factor" (even if delivered in entirely off-hand manner in some interview or other) would suffice to appease all such fears

jpr2

You asked if I could expound a bit in which way voicing these concerns can be seen as negative.

An example of a positive way to express our concerns is like: "Sony, we like the shape of our cameras and plan to buy an upgrade. So we are looking forward to an upgrade shaped like this with these enhancements [ long list of suggestions here ] next year."

That was tried... a number of positive comments were put on the A7 blog asking for a confirmation of what the discontinuation of the NEX product name actually meant and whether there would be continuity of products in the future alpha range

There was no response!

The negative way is like "Because you didn't tell us about the models that you have not yet announced, we think you are abandoning your loyal users. People don't trust you etc."

Well, to be honest they've already done exactly that in the A-mount range on several occasions

A company with a correct customer realtionship model would attempt to sooth user concerns and issue re-assurances. In Sony's case they just said "by the way we've dropped the NEX product name and everything will be called Alpha in future" and have organised an interview with the A7 product manager in which the only thing he talked about was 'change'... hardly reassuring!

Why should the customers (who are have paid Sony for these products) need to go cap in hand to Sony to find out what is happening with the product range that they bought into and that is announced as discontinued?

Regarding the second point you made, I think we shouldn't judge until the next round of actual E-mount model announcements. In the meantime we shall continue to voice our preferences positively.

The problem is that many of the people here are simply in denial... look at the first few responses to this thread. They people replying simply don't believe that it is possible that Sony can change the style of their E-mount cameras and are totally convinced that new Rangefinder bodies will be released next year

Sony will be delighted to hear this, or should I say the guys in Sony who have decided to change the body style will be delighted to hear this as it means that they can get their promotions and then leave the next poor unfortunate guys to handle the sh*t-storm when the existing customers finally wake up to the fact that their product range has been cancelled!

Nobody will hear your positively voiced preferenes because the only interpretation of 'positivity' will be happiness with the current situation of NEX cancellation to be replaced by A3000 and A7 series bodies

This is all negative speculation.

Think carefully. Sony has not abandoned its customers and many here believe it won't.

I'm an A900 FF OVF DSLR owner from just after product launch (purchased December 2008)... Sony has abandoned me twice already! (three times if you also include the flash mount alongside the OVF and the FF sensor)

These people are not in denial.

Please read the first few comments again

Now if Sony does abandon their existing customers, there will be so much negative publicity from all those who bought their camera systems and had to sell off that it will impact Sony's sales in all areas in a very big way.

But the people who make those decisions won't care about that. As far as Mr Maki is concerned the QX range is a huge success because it generated a lot of pre-orders. We know the idea is rubbish and doesn't really work in practice but that doesn't matter since the initial pre-sales and sales figures at launch looked good and so Mr Maki has already moved on. What happens in terms of product sales afterwards, or lost revenues from RX100II or WX150 sales that didn't happen because people bought the QX instead etc etc. is not relevant and somebody else will catch the heat for that

Mr Maki even laughed publicly at his boss for asking who would want this new product... nothing is allowed to get in the way of 'innovation', however destructive that innovation may eventually turn out to be

Incedentally, when it does come to sell-offs one of the first will probably be me - as well as my NEX's I have a lot of high-value A-mount stuff and no obvious replacement body for my A900. NEX together with emotional attachment to Minolta was keeping me in Sony but if that's gone... If I was greedy I'd be trying to talk things up in order to shift my gear for a good price while I still can, but I'm not like that... I'm not so sure of some of the others here, however

So there is no indication that Sony will abandon their customers and let's not spread negative speculation.

Then why are you needing to say this to me? If Sony were so concerned about their existing customers wouldn't there be a quote somewhere that you could link to?

The A7 product manager has just had an interview with DPReview and there is nothing comforting there for us. Sony are the people who should be countering speculation in a void which they themselves have created, but they aren't... why not?

Think of it this way. Sony have cancelled the NEX brand name and this means one of two things:

1. Nothing, only the name has changed and models will continue to be released as before

2. A change, models will not be the same as before

If nothing has changed then why don't Sony confirm this? Currently there is no confirmation (and here you can see the delusion of some of the people posting on this forum immediately)... which can only be because either:

1. Cancelling the NEX brand name means no changes to the range, but Sony don't care enough about their customers to explicity state this (ie. Sony don't care about us)

2. Sony are unable to make any statements becaue they have no idea what they are going to do in the future (ie. Sony are totally lost)

3. There has been a change indicated by dropping the NEX name and future models will not be the same as before, but Sony do not want to tell us that because they know we won't like it if they do admit it (ie. Sony have abandoned us)

I do not see any other options. Please note that I do not believe the nonsense spoken about Sony being 'frightened of telegraphing their plans to their competitors' (as if their competitors don't know them already!), a general statement could easily notify customers that there would be ongoing continuity of some of their future products with many existing NEX bodies without revealing any details or secrets

So which of the final three options is it? Sorry that none of them seem positive, but the options are basically as stated

So what are you suggesting should be said instead?

- 'We like our NEX and look forward to seeing new models'? There aren't going to be any more NEX models

- 'We like our NEX and look forward to seeing A series models which are similar'? The NEX-5T was going to be called the A5000, and then the name got changed to NEX

- 'We like our NEX and look forward to seeing A series models which are similar even though there almost was one but it got renamed to NEX at the last minute in spite of the fact that name was about to be discontinued... but we still want to see more like that model please but called A series this time' Yeah, right!

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
parallaxproblem
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,666
Like?
Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, 9 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

areichow wrote:

Finally, the voice of reason.

No, the voice of 'comfort'

Not necessarily the same thing...

You should expect voice of reason as voice of comfort unless you prefer to remain irrational.

You must have lead a very sheltered life: in the real world the person telling you what you want to hear frequently isn't the person telling you the truth

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
parallaxproblem
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,666
Like?
Re: re: A7's DNA
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, 9 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

GXRuser wrote:

well, I am hoping for an A5 with an APS-C sensor in a A7 sized body... much thinner than the a3000 body.

...is neither necessary for a RF-like APS-C E-mount body (both APS-C sensor and EVF can be easily fitted into the small N7 body, and no humps are necessary), nor desirable:

it will only make the whole larger, but nothing will be gained

Which is why I find these ideas about Sony not continuing with RF form as being wild imaginations of a few much less with the frequency we see threads created on the subject.

Do you have any evidence that they will continue the APS-C RF form? It would be nice at this point in the discussion. Do you have any insight into when the long-overdue NEX-7 rangefinder update model, under any name, will finally be introduced? (Even SAR has given up on that one.) Are are you just taking Sony on faith that whatever they do or don't do, it will always be a happy outcome. Are you a BELIEVER?

Look at A7. It combines NEX-7 form with RX1 w/EVF. If you believe Sony were now going for DSLR form, you would see something like A7000 instead.

the only thing I recognize in A7 form which looks like being [partially] of N7's DNA is perhaps its grip. All the rest has the mark of RX-1 pedigree, plus rather unfortunate faux-pentaprism hump. I can recognize a dilemma they had to solve of how to fit EVF and FF sensor into as small form as possible, do for FF this is it and in all probability it is going to stay for further FF cameras' updates as well.

But... there is absolutely no reason to enforce the same form and esp. that ugly bulge also on the N7 mk-ii, which already shown that all components can be packed together into very much smaller & compact body. So... thank you, but I firmly prefer for it to stay that way.

In other words - for me the N7's form represents RF-like style, but A7's doesn't = in is NOT RF-like any longer, alas !!

SAR is a rumor site that posts guess work and bits of info from various sources.

How many of those various sources might be residing outside of the S's realm??NIL if you ask me. But even if there were any, their credibility is NIL as well - this is why you have there designations for grading their sources: from S0 to S5. But actually I do agree with the voices rised here saying that the SAR site is being very smartly and efficiently used by Sony to feed us only the tidbits they want us to hear and see... unofficially !!

jpr2

And I doubt they will. The FF sensor necessitated that, but given how tightly Sony has packed NEX (and now A7) bodies, they seem to be very focused on making it a common design element and with 6/7 bodies being larger than 3/5 to begin with, they have the room. Now it is possible that Sony chooses to go the more compact route of 3/5 bodies then to put EVF, an A7 like hump will become necessary. We saw this in some old rangefinders too.

http://blog.sony.com/2013/10/a7-faq/

Michael Power pointed out that this looked oddly similar to the Minolta 7000.

Yes, we can see the resemblance that you mention and it’s a great nod to such an innovative camera in 1985. There is a bit of a retro design in this camera which was purposeful but the core design is really the concept of creating the Full Frame capabilities you’d expect from a DSLR into the smaller body style of the α7 and α7R.

ie. the A7 pentaprism hump is there because Sony have decided to adopt some element of retro-styling in their new E-mount range. This is incidentally the antithesis of the NEX design concept

The Minolta 7000 was also the camera which destroyed Minolta by rendering them liable to such punative fines for stealing its AF mechanism from a Honeywell patent.  Strange to use it as a design cue

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
120 to 35
Contributing MemberPosts: 895
Like?
Let's stop negative speculation
In reply to parallaxproblem, 9 months ago

parallaxproblem wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...to replace the so far reigning RF-like little bricks of [former] Nex'es, but I think they are in a teeny-weeny minority, at least if this little poll can be taken as measuring correct temperatures . As all indifferent and "don't care" will fall into that last category of 7%:

What is the camera you are hoping to see in February?

  • New FF A-mount - 40%, 2,658 Votes
  • New NEX-7 alike FF E-mount - 29%, 1,979 Votes
  • New APS-C A-mount - 22%, 1,510 Votes
  • NEX-7 upgrade - 22%, 1,480 Votes
  • New RX2 - 8%, 564 Votes
  • New APS-C E-mount compact camera - 7%, 493 Votes

Total Voters: 6,724

Is the overall 51% asking for N7 mk-II with either FF or APS-C sensor a result which will sway Sony in favor to keep the Nex-like form factor alive?

Perhaps not, but... WHAT ELSE can we do except voicing our concerns and hopes?!!

So, I think that anyone telling the OP to shut up and go away is not only uncivil and outright vulgar, but more importantly they're doing a gross disservice to their best interest and hopes !!

jpr2

Opinion polls are always conducted on a sample of those involved. The poll is certainly not representative of new customers who do not own a Sony camera and do not visit a rumor site about Sony. It is representative of existing owners, especially those interested in new models.

I agree the existing fans of RF style cameras should make their views heard, repeatedly if necessary, in a positive way. I recall you have done this positively on a few occasions.

But when some of the posts look completely anti-Sony they are harming the "campaign" if there is one.

In recent weeks I have commented on some of those opinion threads with a more positive view about the prospects of E-mount cameras. Many others have done the same. But it seems negative posters are not really interested in other users opinions and repeat the harmful anti-Sony message whenever there is an opportunity.

So I no longer believe them when they say they are concerned about themselves and us as users.

in which way voicing these concerns can be seen as "negative"?

After all it is Sony decision makers & marketing who are committing a PR suicide by keeping mum, while a single reassurance: "yes, we're going to continue with NEX-like form factor" (even if delivered in entirely off-hand manner in some interview or other) would suffice to appease all such fears

jpr2

You asked if I could expound a bit in which way voicing these concerns can be seen as negative.

An example of a positive way to express our concerns is like: "Sony, we like the shape of our cameras and plan to buy an upgrade. So we are looking forward to an upgrade shaped like this with these enhancements [ long list of suggestions here ] next year."

That was tried... a number of positive comments were put on the A7 blog asking for a confirmation of what the discontinuation of the NEX product name actually meant and whether there would be continuity of products in the future alpha range

There was no response!

The negative way is like "Because you didn't tell us about the models that you have not yet announced, we think you are abandoning your loyal users. People don't trust you etc."

Well, to be honest they've already done exactly that in the A-mount range on several occasions

A company with a correct customer realtionship model would attempt to sooth user concerns and issue re-assurances. In Sony's case they just said "by the way we've dropped the NEX product name and everything will be called Alpha in future" and have organised an interview with the A7 product manager in which the only thing he talked about was 'change'... hardly reassuring!

Why should the customers (who are have paid Sony for these products) need to go cap in hand to Sony to find out what is happening with the product range that they bought into and that is announced as discontinued?

Regarding the second point you made, I think we shouldn't judge until the next round of actual E-mount model announcements. In the meantime we shall continue to voice our preferences positively.

The problem is that many of the people here are simply in denial... look at the first few responses to this thread. They people replying simply don't believe that it is possible that Sony can change the style of their E-mount cameras and are totally convinced that new Rangefinder bodies will be released next year

Sony will be delighted to hear this, or should I say the guys in Sony who have decided to change the body style will be delighted to hear this as it means that they can get their promotions and then leave the next poor unfortunate guys to handle the sh*t-storm when the existing customers finally wake up to the fact that their product range has been cancelled!

Nobody will hear your positively voiced preferenes because the only interpretation of 'positivity' will be happiness with the current situation of NEX cancellation to be replaced by A3000 and A7 series bodies

This is all negative speculation.

Think carefully. Sony has not abandoned its customers and many here believe it won't.

I'm an A900 FF OVF DSLR owner from just after product launch (purchased December 2008)... Sony has abandoned me twice already! (three times if you also include the flash mount alongside the OVF and the FF sensor)

These people are not in denial.

Please read the first few comments again

Now if Sony does abandon their existing customers, there will be so much negative publicity from all those who bought their camera systems and had to sell off that it will impact Sony's sales in all areas in a very big way.

But the people who make those decisions won't care about that. As far as Mr Maki is concerned the QX range is a huge success because it generated a lot of pre-orders. We know the idea is rubbish and doesn't really work in practice but that doesn't matter since the initial pre-sales and sales figures at launch looked good and so Mr Maki has already moved on. What happens in terms of product sales afterwards, or lost revenues from RX100II or WX150 sales that didn't happen because people bought the QX instead etc etc. is not relevant and somebody else will catch the heat for that

Mr Maki even laughed publicly at his boss for asking who would want this new product... nothing is allowed to get in the way of 'innovation', however destructive that innovation may eventually turn out to be

Incedentally, when it does come to sell-offs one of the first will probably be me - as well as my NEX's I have a lot of high-value A-mount stuff and no obvious replacement body for my A900. NEX together with emotional attachment to Minolta was keeping me in Sony but if that's gone... If I was greedy I'd be trying to talk things up in order to shift my gear for a good price while I still can, but I'm not like that... I'm not so sure of some of the others here, however

So there is no indication that Sony will abandon their customers and let's not spread negative speculation.

Then why are you needing to say this to me? If Sony were so concerned about their existing customers wouldn't there be a quote somewhere that you could link to?

The A7 product manager has just had an interview with DPReview and there is nothing comforting there for us. Sony are the people who should be countering speculation in a void which they themselves have created, but they aren't... why not?

Think of it this way. Sony have cancelled the NEX brand name and this means one of two things:

1. Nothing, only the name has changed and models will continue to be released as before

2. A change, models will not be the same as before

If nothing has changed then why don't Sony confirm this? Currently there is no confirmation (and here you can see the delusion of some of the people posting on this forum immediately)... which can only be because either:

1. Cancelling the NEX brand name means no changes to the range, but Sony don't care enough about their customers to explicity state this (ie. Sony don't care about us)

2. Sony are unable to make any statements becaue they have no idea what they are going to do in the future (ie. Sony are totally lost)

3. There has been a change indicated by dropping the NEX name and future models will not be the same as before, but Sony do not want to tell us that because they know we won't like it if they do admit it (ie. Sony have abandoned us)

I do not see any other options. Please note that I do not believe the nonsense spoken about Sony being 'frightened of telegraphing their plans to their competitors' (as if their competitors don't know them already!), a general statement could easily notify customers that there would be ongoing continuity of some of their future products with many existing NEX bodies without revealing any details or secrets

So which of the final three options is it? Sorry that none of them seem positive, but the options are basically as stated

So what are you suggesting should be said instead?

- 'We like our NEX and look forward to seeing new models'? There aren't going to be any more NEX models

- 'We like our NEX and look forward to seeing A series models which are similar'? The NEX-5T was going to be called the A5000, and then the name got changed to NEX

- 'We like our NEX and look forward to seeing A series models which are similar even though there almost was one but it got renamed to NEX at the last minute in spite of the fact that name was about to be discontinued... but we still want to see more like that model please but called A series this time' Yeah, right!

I think I get your frustration. You were a Minolta user and bought an advanced Sony DSLR when Sony took over the Minolta line and released new cameras. You felt the switch to translucent mirror A99 has left you without a choice of upgrade more or less exactly like the camera you had. You do not think an electronic viewfinder is an upgrade to an optical one. You can still use your Alpha mount lenses with the A99 but this is not suitable for you. You wish Sony would continue the old tradition with minor incremental changes just like Nikon has done with its expensive pro models.

I do not get any of your speculations about Sony executives etc. Other people have said enough. I just don't think inside Sony a mid-level exec can mess up a division and not face the consequences later on.

The reason I am saying " let's not spread negative speculation." is because negativity tends to discourage both regular forum users and anyone wanting to join and learn about the E-mount cameras. Forum members are largely here to discuss, help and enjoy exchanges about their cameras and lenses. New threads popping up every few days by the same small group of posters about the same negative points are just boring. And if you are wondering why you got the short shrift from some early responders to this thread, it is because they knew this was going to be the same old.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
djp58
Regular MemberPosts: 346Gear list
Like?
Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to Letsgokoulos, 9 months ago

Letsgokoulos wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

I can't insert the link here, but if you go to SAR and look at the comments under the latest A3000 article you will see the following:

@admin “I am pretty sure more of this kind of DSLR shaped E-mount cameras will come in 2014″ form Infos from your sources or it is a “felling”?

Reply (from admin): sources

Do you love Sony enough to suffer lugging around an A3000 type monster around as your next camera?

Parallax,

Although I understand and share your concern, I think your negativity is close to paranoia. The message is that there will be other DSLR shaped E-mount cameras, not that the Rangefinder shaped E-mount cameras will disappear.

There is no indication at the present time in either direction, and writing thread over thread on the matter will not change anything. Unfortunately we have to wait until Sony tells or shows us what direction they intend to take.

I personally do not think they will cancel the rangefinder shaped line, since it works so well in Europe and in Asia. But I will wait and remain positive with my existing gear.

Marc

Marc - thanks for expressing this so well.  I can't believe the number of folks on this forum who say nothing but doom & gloom when Sony goes in a direction they don't like.  I love my NEX 7 and had hoped for an RF styled FF to replace it.  While the A7R isn't my perfect camera, I'm sure for others it is the perfect (or at least nearly perfect) camera.  I'm getting one, as it still meets most of my desires in a camera (they had me at E-mount & FF).  I fully expect future offerings, both FF and apsc will come in a variety of body styles, RF as well as DSLR shaped.  I'm certainly rejoicing in the choices I'm seeing now and in the future.

David

 djp58's gear list:djp58's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-7 Sony Alpha 7R Sony 24mm F2 SSM Carl Zeiss Distagon T* Sony E 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 OSS Sony E 50mm F1.8 OSS +14 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
parallaxproblem
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,666
Like?
Re: Let's stop negative speculation
In reply to 120 to 35, 9 months ago

120 to 35 wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...to replace the so far reigning RF-like little bricks of [former] Nex'es, but I think they are in a teeny-weeny minority, at least if this little poll can be taken as measuring correct temperatures . As all indifferent and "don't care" will fall into that last category of 7%:

What is the camera you are hoping to see in February?

  • New FF A-mount - 40%, 2,658 Votes
  • New NEX-7 alike FF E-mount - 29%, 1,979 Votes
  • New APS-C A-mount - 22%, 1,510 Votes
  • NEX-7 upgrade - 22%, 1,480 Votes
  • New RX2 - 8%, 564 Votes
  • New APS-C E-mount compact camera - 7%, 493 Votes

Total Voters: 6,724

Is the overall 51% asking for N7 mk-II with either FF or APS-C sensor a result which will sway Sony in favor to keep the Nex-like form factor alive?

Perhaps not, but... WHAT ELSE can we do except voicing our concerns and hopes?!!

So, I think that anyone telling the OP to shut up and go away is not only uncivil and outright vulgar, but more importantly they're doing a gross disservice to their best interest and hopes !!

jpr2

Opinion polls are always conducted on a sample of those involved. The poll is certainly not representative of new customers who do not own a Sony camera and do not visit a rumor site about Sony. It is representative of existing owners, especially those interested in new models.

I agree the existing fans of RF style cameras should make their views heard, repeatedly if necessary, in a positive way. I recall you have done this positively on a few occasions.

But when some of the posts look completely anti-Sony they are harming the "campaign" if there is one.

In recent weeks I have commented on some of those opinion threads with a more positive view about the prospects of E-mount cameras. Many others have done the same. But it seems negative posters are not really interested in other users opinions and repeat the harmful anti-Sony message whenever there is an opportunity.

So I no longer believe them when they say they are concerned about themselves and us as users.

in which way voicing these concerns can be seen as "negative"?

After all it is Sony decision makers & marketing who are committing a PR suicide by keeping mum, while a single reassurance: "yes, we're going to continue with NEX-like form factor" (even if delivered in entirely off-hand manner in some interview or other) would suffice to appease all such fears

jpr2

You asked if I could expound a bit in which way voicing these concerns can be seen as negative.

An example of a positive way to express our concerns is like: "Sony, we like the shape of our cameras and plan to buy an upgrade. So we are looking forward to an upgrade shaped like this with these enhancements [ long list of suggestions here ] next year."

That was tried... a number of positive comments were put on the A7 blog asking for a confirmation of what the discontinuation of the NEX product name actually meant and whether there would be continuity of products in the future alpha range

There was no response!

The negative way is like "Because you didn't tell us about the models that you have not yet announced, we think you are abandoning your loyal users. People don't trust you etc."

Well, to be honest they've already done exactly that in the A-mount range on several occasions

A company with a correct customer realtionship model would attempt to sooth user concerns and issue re-assurances. In Sony's case they just said "by the way we've dropped the NEX product name and everything will be called Alpha in future" and have organised an interview with the A7 product manager in which the only thing he talked about was 'change'... hardly reassuring!

Why should the customers (who are have paid Sony for these products) need to go cap in hand to Sony to find out what is happening with the product range that they bought into and that is announced as discontinued?

Regarding the second point you made, I think we shouldn't judge until the next round of actual E-mount model announcements. In the meantime we shall continue to voice our preferences positively.

The problem is that many of the people here are simply in denial... look at the first few responses to this thread. They people replying simply don't believe that it is possible that Sony can change the style of their E-mount cameras and are totally convinced that new Rangefinder bodies will be released next year

Sony will be delighted to hear this, or should I say the guys in Sony who have decided to change the body style will be delighted to hear this as it means that they can get their promotions and then leave the next poor unfortunate guys to handle the sh*t-storm when the existing customers finally wake up to the fact that their product range has been cancelled!

Nobody will hear your positively voiced preferenes because the only interpretation of 'positivity' will be happiness with the current situation of NEX cancellation to be replaced by A3000 and A7 series bodies

This is all negative speculation.

Think carefully. Sony has not abandoned its customers and many here believe it won't.

I'm an A900 FF OVF DSLR owner from just after product launch (purchased December 2008)... Sony has abandoned me twice already! (three times if you also include the flash mount alongside the OVF and the FF sensor)

These people are not in denial.

Please read the first few comments again

Now if Sony does abandon their existing customers, there will be so much negative publicity from all those who bought their camera systems and had to sell off that it will impact Sony's sales in all areas in a very big way.

But the people who make those decisions won't care about that. As far as Mr Maki is concerned the QX range is a huge success because it generated a lot of pre-orders. We know the idea is rubbish and doesn't really work in practice but that doesn't matter since the initial pre-sales and sales figures at launch looked good and so Mr Maki has already moved on. What happens in terms of product sales afterwards, or lost revenues from RX100II or WX150 sales that didn't happen because people bought the QX instead etc etc. is not relevant and somebody else will catch the heat for that

Mr Maki even laughed publicly at his boss for asking who would want this new product... nothing is allowed to get in the way of 'innovation', however destructive that innovation may eventually turn out to be

Incedentally, when it does come to sell-offs one of the first will probably be me - as well as my NEX's I have a lot of high-value A-mount stuff and no obvious replacement body for my A900. NEX together with emotional attachment to Minolta was keeping me in Sony but if that's gone... If I was greedy I'd be trying to talk things up in order to shift my gear for a good price while I still can, but I'm not like that... I'm not so sure of some of the others here, however

So there is no indication that Sony will abandon their customers and let's not spread negative speculation.

Then why are you needing to say this to me? If Sony were so concerned about their existing customers wouldn't there be a quote somewhere that you could link to?

The A7 product manager has just had an interview with DPReview and there is nothing comforting there for us. Sony are the people who should be countering speculation in a void which they themselves have created, but they aren't... why not?

Think of it this way. Sony have cancelled the NEX brand name and this means one of two things:

1. Nothing, only the name has changed and models will continue to be released as before

2. A change, models will not be the same as before

If nothing has changed then why don't Sony confirm this? Currently there is no confirmation (and here you can see the delusion of some of the people posting on this forum immediately)... which can only be because either:

1. Cancelling the NEX brand name means no changes to the range, but Sony don't care enough about their customers to explicity state this (ie. Sony don't care about us)

2. Sony are unable to make any statements becaue they have no idea what they are going to do in the future (ie. Sony are totally lost)

3. There has been a change indicated by dropping the NEX name and future models will not be the same as before, but Sony do not want to tell us that because they know we won't like it if they do admit it (ie. Sony have abandoned us)

I do not see any other options. Please note that I do not believe the nonsense spoken about Sony being 'frightened of telegraphing their plans to their competitors' (as if their competitors don't know them already!), a general statement could easily notify customers that there would be ongoing continuity of some of their future products with many existing NEX bodies without revealing any details or secrets

So which of the final three options is it? Sorry that none of them seem positive, but the options are basically as stated

So what are you suggesting should be said instead?

- 'We like our NEX and look forward to seeing new models'? There aren't going to be any more NEX models

- 'We like our NEX and look forward to seeing A series models which are similar'? The NEX-5T was going to be called the A5000, and then the name got changed to NEX

- 'We like our NEX and look forward to seeing A series models which are similar even though there almost was one but it got renamed to NEX at the last minute in spite of the fact that name was about to be discontinued... but we still want to see more like that model please but called A series this time' Yeah, right!

I think I get your frustration. You were a Minolta user and bought an advanced Sony DSLR when Sony took over the Minolta line and released new cameras. You felt the switch to translucent mirror A99 has left you without a choice of upgrade more or less exactly like the camera you had. You do not think an electronic viewfinder is an upgrade to an optical one. You can still use your Alpha mount lenses with the A99 but this is not suitable for you. You wish Sony would continue the old tradition with minor incremental changes just like Nikon has done with its expensive pro models.

I do not get any of your speculations about Sony executives etc. Other people have said enough. I just don't think inside Sony a mid-level exec can mess up a division and not face the consequences later on.

The reason I am saying " let's not spread negative speculation." is because negativity tends to discourage both regular forum users and anyone wanting to join and learn about the E-mount cameras. Forum members are largely here to discuss, help and enjoy exchanges about their cameras and lenses. New threads popping up every few days by the same small group of posters about the same negative points are just boring. And if you are wondering why you got the short shrift from some early responders to this thread, it is because they knew this was going to be the same old.

Thank you for reading my comments thoroughly and drawing some interesting conclusions.  However the posts I have made aren't about frustration...  they are simply trying to notify people of what seems to be going on as the signs are pretty clear now and the level of denial is quite staggering - many people are still 100% certain that Sony will be releasing RF NEX-style bodies next year...

Actually there are a small number of poster giving me short shrift here and I could list the names pretty quickly, so the 'small group' arguement works both ways.  Try reading the arguements used against what is being said, most aren't even coherent and simply rely on either: 'faith' (literally!) in Sony; a deliberate misinterpretation of the non-statements by Sony reps when announcing the end of the NEX branding; or over-simplistic notions of how large corporations work

Personal details...  no need to read further other than to respond directly to the points above

Actually any frustration I may have isn't the concerning situation over A-mount: I only used that as an example from a personal point of view of how Sony have 'walked away' from A-mount users so demontrating that is is possible for Sony to do the same with E-mount users

I do have similar feelings to those you describe about the A900 and A99 (close but not quite the same), but they aren't 'emotional' and this isn't a reason for a 'hissy fit' as I can easily sell the A900 and Sony/Minolta lenses and buy something similar in Canon/Nikon (and indeed this is what I am likely to do!).  I would also be discussing such things on the A-mount forum if that was the case, not here.  There is nothing particularly unique about A-mount and brand changes are annoyingly expensive but possible

The cause of my personal frustration is really just about NEX.  Frankly I was fed-up of carting heavy DSLR equipment around and like many other people here was bowled-over by the release of NEX which offered DSLR quality in a highly portable package with lots of new high-tech goodies thrown in.  Not only that, but the first versions of NEX-5 and NEX-3 really hit the spot in many way.  NEX was unique, there was nothing else around quite like them and even now NEX probably offers the best mirrorless bodies (though sadly not the best lens range).  I admit that I do feel frustration that Sony are about to dump that great idea just to go chasing after Nikon and Canon again, instead of building on their existing user base -  I saw an A3000 in a shop window for the first time today, and couldn't think of a further departure from the NEX bodies I have

Finally I've seen many (many!) examples of ambtious mid-level execs messing-up a division in a large corporation for their own personal advancement...  sometimes they pay for it later and sometimes they don't, but it doesn't stop it from happening.  I'm genuinely surprised that more people on the forum haven't seen this.  Perhaps everybody is too young or not working in large corporate environments, as many people I come into contact with in real life have similar stories to tell about one or two ambitious idiots in a corporation messing everything up for their own personal gain (wasn't that also what the financial crisis we are all living now about?)

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Gato Amarillo
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,455
Like?
It's not the end of the world
In reply to parallaxproblem, 9 months ago

In many ways I prefer the NEX shape, but I can live with the DSLR look.

Right now I own both a NEX 6 and an A3000. While I think the NEX looks cooler and it is much less bulky in the bag, for those jobs when the camera is in my hand for 2 hours or more the A3000 is much more comfortable. So sort of a toss-up.

Gato

-- hide signature --

"We paint with our brain, not with our hands" -- Michelangelo
Portrait, figure and fantasy photography at Silver Mirage Gallery:
silvermirage.com

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
GaryW
Veteran MemberPosts: 6,929Gear list
Like?
Re: Let's stop negative speculation
In reply to 120 to 35, 9 months ago

120 to 35 wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

120 to 35 wrote.....

This is all negative speculation.

Think carefully. Sony has not abandoned its customers and many here believe it won't.

I'm an A900 FF OVF DSLR owner from just after product launch (purchased December 2008)... Sony has abandoned me twice already! (three times if you also include the flash mount alongside the OVF and the FF sensor)

Your flashes and OVF stopped working?    You mean a new camera has a different hot shoe and EVF. Can't you use an adapter for the flash?

.....

But the people who make those decisions won't care about that. As far as Mr Maki is concerned the QX range is a huge success because it generated a lot of pre-orders. We know the idea is rubbish and doesn't really work in practice but that doesn't matter since the initial pre-sales and sales figures at launch looked good and so Mr Maki has already moved on. What happens in terms of product sales afterwards, or lost revenues from RX100II or WX150 sales that didn't happen because people bought the QX instead etc etc. is not relevant and somebody else will catch the heat for that

Mr Maki even laughed publicly at his boss for asking who would want this new product... nothing is allowed to get in the way of 'innovation', however destructive that innovation may eventually turn out to be

It's daring for a company to risk competing with it's own products. With more conservative thinking, we would have gotten a 1" sensor or something otherwise lame.

Why would it bother you if someone gets a QX camera instead of a WX150?  It's the customer's money.

Incedentally, when it does come to sell-offs one of the first will probably be me - as well as my NEX's I have a lot of high-value A-mount stuff and no obvious replacement body for my A900. NEX together with emotional attachment to Minolta was keeping me in Sony but if that's gone... If I was greedy I'd be trying to talk things up in order to shift my gear for a good price while I still can, but I'm not like that... I'm not so sure of some of the others here, however

...

If nothing has changed then why don't Sony confirm this? Currently there is no confirmation (and here you can see the delusion of some of the people posting on this forum immediately)... which can only be because either:

1. Cancelling the NEX brand name means no changes to the range, but Sony don't care enough about their customers to explicity state this (ie. Sony don't care about us)

2. Sony are unable to make any statements becaue they have no idea what they are going to do in the future (ie. Sony are totally lost)

3. There has been a change indicated by dropping the NEX name and future models will not be the same as before, but Sony do not want to tell us that because they know we won't like it if they do admit it (ie. Sony have abandoned us)

I do not see any other options. Please note that I do not believe the nonsense spoken about Sony being 'frightened of telegraphing their plans to their competitors' (as if their competitors don't know them already!), a general statement could easily notify customers that there would be ongoing continuity of some of their future products with many existing NEX bodies without revealing any details or secrets

Why couldn't they have some cool designs and not want to signal their plans?  The GX7 seems to be an attempt to copy Nex, so they are always going to be behind, following.

So which of the final three options is it? Sorry that none of them seem positive, but the options are basically as stated

So what are you suggesting should be said instead?

- 'We like our NEX and look forward to seeing new models'? There aren't going to be any more NEX models

- 'We like our NEX and look forward to seeing A series models which are similar'? The NEX-5T was going to be called the A5000, and then the name got changed to NEX

- 'We like our NEX and look forward to seeing A series models which are similar even though there almost was one but it got renamed to NEX at the last minute in spite of the fact that name was about to be discontinued... but we still want to see more like that model please but called A series this time' Yeah, right!

I think I get your frustration. You were a Minolta user and bought an advanced Sony DSLR when Sony took over the Minolta line and released new cameras. You felt the switch to translucent mirror A99 has left you without a choice of upgrade more or less exactly like the camera you had. You do not think an electronic viewfinder is an upgrade to an optical one. You can still use your Alpha mount lenses with the A99 but this is not suitable for you. You wish Sony would continue the old tradition with minor incremental changes just like Nikon has done with its expensive pro models.

And with ILCs carefully positioned to not compete with the cash cow. Which is as big as a cow. I mean really, if you're happier with the signals you get from Canikon, why stay with Sony, tilting at windmills and forums?  Just get a reliable brand that also doesn't give you what you want.

I do not get any of your speculations about Sony executives etc. Other people have said enough. I just don't think inside Sony a mid-level exec can mess up a division and not face the consequences later on.

The reason I am saying " let's not spread negative speculation." is because negativity tends to discourage both regular forum users and anyone wanting to join and learn about the E-mount cameras. Forum members are largely here to discuss, help and enjoy exchanges about their cameras and lenses. New threads popping up every few days by the same small group of posters about the same negative points are just boring. And if you are wondering why you got the short shrift from some early responders to this thread, it is because they knew this was going to be the same old.

Worst-case, it can discourage sales, meaning less future development.

-- hide signature --

Gary W.

 GaryW's gear list:GaryW's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-6 Sony E 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 PZ OSS Sony Cyber-shot DSC-V3 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX5 Sony Alpha DSLR-A100 +10 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jpr2
Forum ProPosts: 13,732
Like?
120-->35: about "negativity"
In reply to 120 to 35, 9 months ago

120-->35: I've just read all the posts in the sub-thread you've created - and I must say I'm disappointed: it seems to derail an interesting exchange of ideas into sort of emotional mudslinging contest (very, very mild one by the standards of observed here mob-lynching some minority opinions, and yet so it seems to evolve).

Who are we to decree that some posts of our opponents are negatively charged? Totally subjective a criterion, and even more so if their authors jump into shoes of self-appointed advocates for a huge corporation

jpr2

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
sshoihet
Senior MemberPosts: 2,258Gear list
Like?
Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to parallaxproblem, 9 months ago

parallaxproblem wrote:

Do you love Sony enough to suffer lugging around an A3000 type monster around as your next camera?

The biggest thing that keeps me away from sony mirrorless is their coke can on a cigarette pack ergonomics.  If they built a body at least as big as my D7100, I'd consider it for serious shooting as long as I can find the lenses i need to go with it.

 sshoihet's gear list:sshoihet's gear list
Canon PowerShot S95 Nikon D7000 Canon EOS M Nikon D600 Nikon D7100 +14 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
dbose
Regular MemberPosts: 269Gear list
Like?
Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to parallaxproblem, 9 months ago

parallaxproblem wrote:

I can't insert the link here, but if you go to SAR and look at the comments under the latest A3000 article you will see the following:

@admin “I am pretty sure more of this kind of DSLR shaped E-mount cameras will come in 2014″ form Infos from your sources or it is a “felling”?

Reply (from admin): sources

Do you love Sony enough to suffer lugging around an A3000 type monster around as your next camera?

NEX3 is different from NEX5 which is different then NEX6 and Nex7 which are all different then A7 which is different then A3000. Sony makes many different style bodies in all of its lines, In the cybershots there are T series,w series,  and H series and RX series (I'm sure I'm forgetting some). Sony is about trying to capture as much of the market as they can.   the A3000 is aimed at the uninformed american market that assumes that the bigger the camera the better the pictures and is probably cheaper to make then the SLT models. Question, If Ford designs a new sports car, should we assume they wont ever change the F150? They are different lines with different refresh timelines!.   The 5T was just released this year and guess what, my 5n that I bought new just a couple years ago is already 3 generations old. Honestly, I wish they would stop pushing new models out year after year just to keep gear junkies from getting the DT's. When I had my Minolta 7d I used it for 5 years without even a thought of upgrading and at that time the new camera MP count had almost tripled, Live view came into existence and AF speed/accuracy went off the chain! What could possibly improve so much on a new RF styled Alpha 3/5/6/7/? that would make it worthy to throw away a $1000 camera to spend another $1200-$1500 on a new one.  This constant model refresh cycle makes your old cameras worth nothing fast! thank God the lenses hold value.  I do understand your fears though. I had much of the same sick feeling when Sony bought Minolta. I was sure that all of my lenses would be garbage, I assumed sony was going to make the DSLR into a video focused camera and swore I wouldn't invest any money in sony ever!. I caved when the 7d failed and got an a500  and then a couple years later was seduced by the NEX line. I sold the DSLR  thinking I would still use the glass but found the lenses were collecting dust and  eventually sold off all the AF glass. It was not painful at all. If the mount survives you can sell (for some loss, of course) and find a system that's right for you. Sounds like you like new cutting edge stuff anyways.

And as for your question, No I don't love Sony that much. so if the A3000 is the only new camera available. I'll still use my 5n till it breaks or buy a used RF style alpha  or maybe do what it sounds like you will do and vote with my feet (you really don't lose that much when you sell lenses and the body is already worth nothing) Any way I wish you the best of luck whatever your choice is. Just remember,cameras are just things, we should use things not love them.

Dave

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jpr2
Forum ProPosts: 13,732
Like?
Dave: one single [but compeling enough] reason
In reply to dbose, 9 months ago

dbose wrote:

What could possibly improve so much on a new RF styled Alpha 3/5/6/7/? that would make it worthy to throw away a $1000 camera to spend another $1200-$1500 on a new one.

Dave

I do agree with almost all you've written, except on this one - should Sony succeed finally in bringing their OSPDAF to perform on par with the classic PDAF performance for fast action shooting/tracing, available in mid-level [d]SLRs (although of course I'd be delighted should it be as good as state-of-the-art, top-of-the-line performance such like in e.g. 2Dx or 5d3) then... yes = it would be worth upgrading for that reason alone (but of course there will be some other perks involved too - like several years of sensor development for Nex-7 mk-II, etc.)

jpr2

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads