New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000

Started Nov 10, 2013 | Discussions
captura
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Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to parallaxproblem, Nov 11, 2013
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captura
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Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to nevercat, Nov 11, 2013

You write on the forum under what, 3 different names?

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captura
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Re: re: perhaps some here would genuinely like for the a3k style...
In reply to jpr2, Nov 11, 2013

Well said !

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nevercat
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Re: re: could you please expound a bit??
In reply to jpr2, Nov 11, 2013

jpr2 wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...to replace the so far reigning RF-like little bricks of [former] Nex'es, but I think they are in a teeny-weeny minority, at least if this little poll can be taken as measuring correct temperatures . As all indifferent and "don't care" will fall into that last category of 7%:

What is the camera you are hoping to see in February?

  • New FF A-mount - 40%, 2,658 Votes
  • New NEX-7 alike FF E-mount - 29%, 1,979 Votes
  • New APS-C A-mount - 22%, 1,510 Votes
  • NEX-7 upgrade - 22%, 1,480 Votes
  • New RX2 - 8%, 564 Votes
  • New APS-C E-mount compact camera - 7%, 493 Votes

Total Voters: 6,724

Is the overall 51% asking for N7 mk-II with either FF or APS-C sensor a result which will sway Sony in favor to keep the Nex-like form factor alive?

Perhaps not, but... WHAT ELSE can we do except voicing our concerns and hopes?!!

So, I think that anyone telling the OP to shut up and go away is not only uncivil and outright vulgar, but more importantly they're doing a gross disservice to their best interest and hopes !!

jpr2

Opinion polls are always conducted on a sample of those involved. The poll is certainly not representative of new customers who do not own a Sony camera and do not visit a rumor site about Sony. It is representative of existing owners, especially those interested in new models.

I agree the existing fans of RF style cameras should make their views heard, repeatedly if necessary, in a positive way. I recall you have done this positively on a few occasions.

But when some of the posts look completely anti-Sony they are harming the "campaign" if there is one.

In recent weeks I have commented on some of those opinion threads with a more positive view about the prospects of E-mount cameras. Many others have done the same. But it seems negative posters are not really interested in other users opinions and repeat the harmful anti-Sony message whenever there is an opportunity.

So I no longer believe them when they say they are concerned about themselves and us as users.

in which way voicing these concerns can be seen as "negative"?

After all it is Sony decision makers & marketing who are committing a PR suicide by keeping mum, while a single reassurance: "yes, we're going to continue with NEX-like form factor" (even if delivered in entirely off-hand manner in some interview or other) would suffice to appease all such fears

Do you realy need that assurance? I see the assurance in the way they told that the Nex brand was REBRANDED to alpha. They will put a new name on the cameras from now on, so what? When the A7 and A6 where introduced, nobody was affraid that the Nex 5 styled cameras where dead. Now when Sony comes with a new range of E-mount cameras people are claiming that their RF cameras are completely abandoned...

And yes the way those people voice their oppinion at formums like these are hurting Sony, and so they are hurting the loyal users of the E-mount. These people are scaring others who want to buy an E-mount camera and that will hurt Sony sales, and that will in the end hurt the design of new lenses and cameras...

So, I support all those who are asking Sony to keep the RF formfactor. But I will show what I think in threads like this...

jpr2

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captura
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Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to Habs Fan27, Nov 11, 2013

Habs Fan27 wrote:

Clayton1985 wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

I can't insert the link here, but if you go to SAR and look at the comments under the latest A3000 article you will see the following:

@admin “I am pretty sure more of this kind of DSLR shaped E-mount cameras will come in 2014″ form Infos from your sources or it is a “felling”?

Reply (from admin): sources

Do you love Sony enough to suffer lugging around an A3000 type monster around as your next camera?

and I'd probably use it alongside my new APS-C rangefinder shaped camera that Sony releases next year.

I hope you are right, but I'm about 70% certain now that you aren't

Don't you think you are being a bit silly telling Sony how happy you are with everything currently, if you want to see rangefinder bodies released in the future? A new team has taken over the camera division, we've seen an interview recently with one of their leading stars who made a point of saying that he was 'all about change' and clearly is not somebody to continue with the last manager's ideas. This isn't paranoia, it's the real situation

The only chance you have is to kick-up some kind of stink on the user forums otherwise these guys are just going to quote 'Amazon pre-order stats' to their senior bosses, get promotions and move-on elsewhere leaving you stuck with the product strategy they have put in place

If you find yourself stuck with an E-mount product range next year which is:

- A3000

- A5000 (similar body to A3000 but improved specs)

- maybe an A7000 (high-end A3000-like body), though maybe not

- A7

- A7r

- A9 ('Pro level' FE body, bigger than A7 with extra, new technology)

- All NEX bodies discontinued

Then you will only have yourself to blame

well, I am hoping for an A5 with an APS-C sensor in a A7 sized body... much thinner than the a3000 body.

I would think this might be a fair assumption as to what direction Sony might go. Something similar to the A7 to keep things looking similar. As long as it's smallish, I don't care where the VF is.

On an other note, you gotta love the daily Sony is going to stop making (fill in the blank) thread.

The A7 size would be unnecessarily fat & heavy for a simple APS-C rangefinder replacement. There are other companies making small rangefinder MILC's with fast sensors, if you need a new one next year. Look up GX7, E-PL5, E-P5 and some Samsung APS-C models.

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captura
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Re: re: as the "old" Nex-7 amply attested the faux-pentaprim hump...
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, Nov 11, 2013

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

GXRuser wrote:

well, I am hoping for an A5 with an APS-C sensor in a A7 sized body... much thinner than the a3000 body.

...is neither necessary for a RF-like APS-C E-mount body (both APS-C sensor and EVF can be easily fitted into the small N7 body, and no humps are necessary), nor desirable:

it will only make the whole larger, but nothing will be gained

jpr2

Which is why I find these ideas about Sony not continuing with RF form as being wild imaginations of a few much less with the frequency we see threads created on the subject.

Do you have any evidence that they will continue the APS-C RF form? It would be nice at this point in the discussion. Do you have any insight into when the long-overdue NEX-7 rangefinder update model, under any name, will finally be introduced? (Even SAR has given up on that one.) Are are you just taking Sony on faith that whatever they do or don't do, it will always be a happy outcome. Are you a BELIEVER?

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parallaxproblem
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Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to Mel Snyder, Nov 11, 2013

Mel Snyder wrote:

captura wrote:

I still give the odds at 60/40 that Sony will pull an APS-C rangefinder out of their hat next year. I sure hope so but even the SAR guy isn't so optimistic, anymore.

Enough hate on this forum over this issue; maybe time to let it go.

Hi Mel

So you also think an A5000 and maybe an A7000 are a much more likely APS-C E-mount releases than an A5 now?

You're right, friend. Let it go. Our rangefinder-shaped cameras will work for at least a decade.

This guy's didn't:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3565347

Of course it's an exception and even the best equipment suffers from failures, but these objects are consumer devices and are not designed for 10 year lifespans, any more than modern mobile phones are

If Sony keeps the NEX line going in any configuration, we will see new APS-C lenses for decades

That is very unlikely

With the introduction of FF to the E-mount range it is clear that in the 'medium term' APS-C sensors will be replaced with FF ones across the whole E-mount range. I don't know if 'medium term' means 2 years, or 10 years (if there is no NEX-7 replacement then it will be closer to the former, if there is one then APS-C may last for a while longer)

However new even if new APS-C lenses are released the bodies may need new firmwares to use them... The PZ16-50 will not work properly (distortion correction) on the NEX-3 & 5 even though it was introduced only one year after those models were discontinued. The PDAF supported lenses needed firmware updates for compatibility with the new AF communications protocols there is nothing to say that future lens AF protocol enhancements will simply not be compatible with older models. New lenses will have distortion profiles which will not exist in the current firmwares

Sony could quite easily release new lenses that will not work on current NEX bodies and not issue updated NEX firmwares if they want to encourage users to upgrade to their new body format (The Minolta DSLR bodies are not compatible with any of the pre-digital flashes, even though they share the same mount - this was a deliberate 'forced upgrade' policy by Minolta)

In the case of distortion correction I guess you could shoot in RAW and use DXO but would it be worth it?

- and if we get lucky, in 3 years, we'll see used NEX-7s going for their current new price due to demand from the aficionados.

Will you really want them at that point: the NEX-7 will be a 5-6 year old design then. I like my 5 year old A900 but it is rather 'long in the tooth' now and it is only because Sony had a hiatus in the development of FF for a few years that prevents it feeling absurdly obsolete

I'm currently trying to fiddle around with my KM7D - a fantastic and very advanced camera at launch but 8 years later it is rather embarassing how dated it now feels...

My 35mm f1.4 Summilux now goes for 8x what I paid for it slightly used in 1983. My Canon FD 85mm f1.2L goes in 2013 dollars about exactly what I paid for it in 1989. Highly appreciated gear appreciates.

Can you imagine a Sony Zeiss 24/1.8 or a 16-70/4 or even a 12/.28 Touit commanding such sums in 2043?

You can't compare equipment from that generation. Each of the items you mention can be serviced and maintained and each has distinct optical characteristics and nostalgia value which maintain their desirablity. The latest lenses are basically sealed units and it is more-or-less impossible to service or adjust them, all that can be done is to replace the internal sealed optical units with new items, otherwise they are as diposable as a two generation-old iPhone with a dead battery (the analogy is picked carefully here)

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120 to 35
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Re: re: could you please expound a bit??
In reply to jpr2, Nov 11, 2013

jpr2 wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...to replace the so far reigning RF-like little bricks of [former] Nex'es, but I think they are in a teeny-weeny minority, at least if this little poll can be taken as measuring correct temperatures . As all indifferent and "don't care" will fall into that last category of 7%:

What is the camera you are hoping to see in February?

  • New FF A-mount - 40%, 2,658 Votes
  • New NEX-7 alike FF E-mount - 29%, 1,979 Votes
  • New APS-C A-mount - 22%, 1,510 Votes
  • NEX-7 upgrade - 22%, 1,480 Votes
  • New RX2 - 8%, 564 Votes
  • New APS-C E-mount compact camera - 7%, 493 Votes

Total Voters: 6,724

Is the overall 51% asking for N7 mk-II with either FF or APS-C sensor a result which will sway Sony in favor to keep the Nex-like form factor alive?

Perhaps not, but... WHAT ELSE can we do except voicing our concerns and hopes?!!

So, I think that anyone telling the OP to shut up and go away is not only uncivil and outright vulgar, but more importantly they're doing a gross disservice to their best interest and hopes !!

jpr2

Opinion polls are always conducted on a sample of those involved. The poll is certainly not representative of new customers who do not own a Sony camera and do not visit a rumor site about Sony. It is representative of existing owners, especially those interested in new models.

I agree the existing fans of RF style cameras should make their views heard, repeatedly if necessary, in a positive way. I recall you have done this positively on a few occasions.

But when some of the posts look completely anti-Sony they are harming the "campaign" if there is one.

In recent weeks I have commented on some of those opinion threads with a more positive view about the prospects of E-mount cameras. Many others have done the same. But it seems negative posters are not really interested in other users opinions and repeat the harmful anti-Sony message whenever there is an opportunity.

So I no longer believe them when they say they are concerned about themselves and us as users.

in which way voicing these concerns can be seen as "negative"?

After all it is Sony decision makers & marketing who are committing a PR suicide by keeping mum, while a single reassurance: "yes, we're going to continue with NEX-like form factor" (even if delivered in entirely off-hand manner in some interview or other) would suffice to appease all such fears

jpr2

You asked if I could expound a bit in which way voicing these concerns can be seen as negative.

An example of a positive way to express our concerns is like: "Sony, we like the shape of our cameras and plan to buy an upgrade. So we are looking forward to an upgrade shaped like this with these enhancements [ long list of suggestions here ] next year."

The negative way is like "Because you didn't tell us about the models that you have not yet announced, we think you are abandoning your loyal users. People don't trust you etc."

Regarding the second point you made, I think we shouldn't judge until the next round of actual E-mount model announcements. In the meantime we shall continue to voice our preferences positively.

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captura
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Re: re: as the "old" Nex-7 amply attested the faux-pentaprim hump...
In reply to jpr2, Nov 11, 2013

jpr2 wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

GXRuser wrote:

well, I am hoping for an A5 with an APS-C sensor in a A7 sized body... much thinner than the a3000 body.

...is neither necessary for a RF-like APS-C E-mount body (both APS-C sensor and EVF can be easily fitted into the small N7 body, and no humps are necessary), nor desirable:

it will only make the whole larger, but nothing will be gained

jpr2

Which is why I find these ideas about Sony not continuing with RF form as being wild imaginations of a few much less with the frequency we see threads created on the subject.

well, few months ago - if you'd tell us that S. are going to release an ugly monstrosity, full of empty space filled with air but containing exactly the same components as N3, with perhaps some tiny improvements here and there but also compromising some other components - in the form of a3k, than in all probability everyone would paint you as a stark raving-mad lunatic

Correct. And interestingly, the A model you are referring to was nearly identical in features and operation to the minimalist NEX-3N. It would have been so easy to take the 3N guts (with better sensor) and drop them into that ugly blob body. But no, ALL the components came from other sectors of the Sony parts bin.

Why? I propose that the NEX design team being LONG-DISBANDED, they used a different design team, maybe the Alpha team, to design/assemble this new model from the PARTS WHICH THEY WERE ALREADY FAMILIAR WITH!

and yet... it is a fact = the a3k is here, the Nex name is no more, and so far nothing in the RF-form... is even rumored

jpr2

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parallaxproblem
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Re: re: as the "old" Nex-7 amply attested the faux-pentaprim hump...
In reply to nevercat, Nov 11, 2013

nevercat wrote:

and yet... it is a fact = the a3k is here, the Nex name is no more, and so far nothing in the RF-form... is even rumored

The only realy shoking, that I did not expect was the end of the Nex brand, but Sony said clearly that the Nex was rebranded, so I see no problem there.

When Kentucky Fried Chicken rebranded themselves to KFC did they just mumble "our restaurants will be called KFC from now on" and leave it at that?

No, they launched an enormous, international media and television campaign to explain to their customers that the change did not mean that the stores were going to change in any way

Nobody expects a TV campaign from Sony, but all of their current Emount customers (except those who bought the VG or A3000 cameras) bought into NEX and deserve a brief confirmation of what that rebranding the system they bought-into actually means in practice

And now we have one...   SAR have told us that 'sources' (ie. Sony as only they could know, unless SAR are lying or very stupid) say that more A3000 like E-mount cameras will be launched next year

So unless you think Sony will release more than one (they said cameraS) big DSLR body APS-C emount camera and an RF body (ie. at least three new APS-C bodies along with the A3000 next year) it means no more rangefinder bodies for APS-C

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parallaxproblem
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Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to areichow, Nov 11, 2013

areichow wrote:

Finally, the voice of reason.

No, the voice of 'comfort'

Not necessarily the same thing...

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parallaxproblem
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Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to Keit ll, Nov 11, 2013

Keit ll wrote:

The problem is that everyone is guessing about the future of rangefinder styled bodies & Sony need to understand that all this speculation is causing damage to their market prospects.

The NEX series has been exclusively established by selling rangefinder styled cameras so why leave current owners in the dark ?

I think they have answered us now

Who were SAR's 'sources'?   It is clear that Sony Marketing dept were feeding SAR a lot of the info on the A7 in order to run a sort of 'viral marketing campaign' for that camera - and it worked very well!

The only credible sources concerning the release of new APS-C bodies next year is Sony themselves so the obvious source of that info is Sony

More than one new body looking like the A3000 as well (the word was cameras, not camera)

The A3000 probably be marketed for at least 12 months.  The obvious new DSLR-shape cameras would be an A5000 and an A7000 (and/or maybe an A3000 replacement in late 2014).  Not much room for a Rangfinder there with those bases covered...

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Re: re: as the "old" Nex-7 amply attested the faux-pentaprim hump...
In reply to parallaxproblem, Nov 11, 2013

nevercat wrote:

and yet... it is a fact = the a3k is here, the Nex name is no more, and so far nothing in the RF-form... is even rumored

The only realy shoking, that I did not expect was the end of the Nex brand, but Sony said clearly that the Nex was rebranded, so I see no problem there.

When Kentucky Fried Chicken rebranded themselves to KFC did they just mumble "our restaurants will be called KFC from now on" and leave it at that?

No, they launched an enormous, international media and television campaign to explain to their customers that the change did not mean that the stores were going to change in any way

Nobody expects a TV campaign from Sony, but all of their current Emount customers (except those who bought the VG or A3000 cameras) bought into NEX and deserve a brief confirmation of what that rebranding the system they bought-into actually means in practice

And now we have one...   SAR have told us that 'sources' (ie. Sony as only they could know, unless SAR are lying or very stupid) say that more A3000 like E-mount cameras will be launched next year

So unless you think Sony will release more than one (they said cameraS) big DSLR body APS-C emount camera and an RF body (ie. at least three new APS-C bodies along with the A3000 next year) it means no more rangefinder bodies for APS-C

SAR is a rumor site. Some rumors see reasonable light, most are vague but have pieces of information together but the final product may be very different and then there are rumors that never see the light. They are called rumors for a reason and when they are completely off, dont go around calling them lies. They were rumors to begin with, not news.

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: re: as the "old" Nex-7 amply attested the faux-pentaprim hump...
In reply to captura, Nov 11, 2013

jpr2 wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

GXRuser wrote:

well, I am hoping for an A5 with an APS-C sensor in a A7 sized body... much thinner than the a3000 body.

...is neither necessary for a RF-like APS-C E-mount body (both APS-C sensor and EVF can be easily fitted into the small N7 body, and no humps are necessary), nor desirable:

it will only make the whole larger, but nothing will be gained

jpr2

Which is why I find these ideas about Sony not continuing with RF form as being wild imaginations of a few much less with the frequency we see threads created on the subject.

well, few months ago - if you'd tell us that S. are going to release an ugly monstrosity, full of empty space filled with air but containing exactly the same components as N3, with perhaps some tiny improvements here and there but also compromising some other components - in the form of a3k, than in all probability everyone would paint you as a stark raving-mad lunatic

Correct. And interestingly, the A model you are referring to was nearly identical in features and operation to the minimalist NEX-3N. It would have been so easy to take the 3N guts (with better sensor) and drop them into that ugly blob body. But no, ALL the components came from other sectors of the Sony parts bin.

Why? I propose that the NEX design team being LONG-DISBANDED, they used a different design team, maybe the Alpha team, to design/assemble this new model from the PARTS WHICH THEY WERE ALREADY FAMILIAR WITH!

and yet... it is a fact = the a3k is here, the Nex name is no more, and so far nothing in the RF-form... is even rumored

jpr2

NEX has been an alpha product since day one. What Sony appears to be doing now is making Cybershot and Alpha divisions work together more as a team. And A7 is reflects that: combines design attributed from Alpha NEX body (NEX-6/7) and Cybershot RX1. The JPEG engine and user interface also Shows a combination of the two.

I don't see why many of you feel A7 resembles A3000 but not NEX form.

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parallaxproblem
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Re: re: could you please expound a bit??
In reply to 120 to 35, Nov 11, 2013

120 to 35 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...to replace the so far reigning RF-like little bricks of [former] Nex'es, but I think they are in a teeny-weeny minority, at least if this little poll can be taken as measuring correct temperatures . As all indifferent and "don't care" will fall into that last category of 7%:

What is the camera you are hoping to see in February?

  • New FF A-mount - 40%, 2,658 Votes
  • New NEX-7 alike FF E-mount - 29%, 1,979 Votes
  • New APS-C A-mount - 22%, 1,510 Votes
  • NEX-7 upgrade - 22%, 1,480 Votes
  • New RX2 - 8%, 564 Votes
  • New APS-C E-mount compact camera - 7%, 493 Votes

Total Voters: 6,724

Is the overall 51% asking for N7 mk-II with either FF or APS-C sensor a result which will sway Sony in favor to keep the Nex-like form factor alive?

Perhaps not, but... WHAT ELSE can we do except voicing our concerns and hopes?!!

So, I think that anyone telling the OP to shut up and go away is not only uncivil and outright vulgar, but more importantly they're doing a gross disservice to their best interest and hopes !!

jpr2

Opinion polls are always conducted on a sample of those involved. The poll is certainly not representative of new customers who do not own a Sony camera and do not visit a rumor site about Sony. It is representative of existing owners, especially those interested in new models.

I agree the existing fans of RF style cameras should make their views heard, repeatedly if necessary, in a positive way. I recall you have done this positively on a few occasions.

But when some of the posts look completely anti-Sony they are harming the "campaign" if there is one.

In recent weeks I have commented on some of those opinion threads with a more positive view about the prospects of E-mount cameras. Many others have done the same. But it seems negative posters are not really interested in other users opinions and repeat the harmful anti-Sony message whenever there is an opportunity.

So I no longer believe them when they say they are concerned about themselves and us as users.

in which way voicing these concerns can be seen as "negative"?

After all it is Sony decision makers & marketing who are committing a PR suicide by keeping mum, while a single reassurance: "yes, we're going to continue with NEX-like form factor" (even if delivered in entirely off-hand manner in some interview or other) would suffice to appease all such fears

jpr2

You asked if I could expound a bit in which way voicing these concerns can be seen as negative.

An example of a positive way to express our concerns is like: "Sony, we like the shape of our cameras and plan to buy an upgrade. So we are looking forward to an upgrade shaped like this with these enhancements [ long list of suggestions here ] next year."

That was tried... a number of positive comments were put on the A7 blog asking for a confirmation of what the discontinuation of the NEX product name actually meant and whether there would be continuity of products in the future alpha range

There was no response!

The negative way is like "Because you didn't tell us about the models that you have not yet announced, we think you are abandoning your loyal users. People don't trust you etc."

Well, to be honest they've already done exactly that in the A-mount range on several occasions

A company with a correct customer realtionship model would attempt to sooth user concerns and issue re-assurances. In Sony's case they just said "by the way we've dropped the NEX product name and everything will be called Alpha in future" and have organised an interview with the A7 product manager in which the only thing he talked about was 'change'... hardly reassuring!

Why should the customers (who are have paid Sony for these products) need to go cap in hand to Sony to find out what is happening with the product range that they bought into and that is announced as discontinued?

Regarding the second point you made, I think we shouldn't judge until the next round of actual E-mount model announcements. In the meantime we shall continue to voice our preferences positively.

The problem is that many of the people here are simply in denial... look at the first few responses to this thread. They people replying simply don't believe that it is possible that Sony can change the style of their E-mount cameras and are totally convinced that new Rangefinder bodies will be released next year

Sony will be delighted to hear this, or should I say the guys in Sony who have decided to change the body style will be delighted to hear this as it means that they can get their promotions and then leave the next poor unfortunate guys to handle the sh*t-storm when the existing customers finally wake up to the fact that their product range has been cancelled!

Nobody will hear your positively voiced preferenes because the only interpretation of 'positivity' will be happiness with the current situation of NEX cancellation to be replaced by A3000 and A7 series bodies

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: re: as the "old" Nex-7 amply attested the faux-pentaprim hump...
In reply to captura, Nov 11, 2013

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

GXRuser wrote:

well, I am hoping for an A5 with an APS-C sensor in a A7 sized body... much thinner than the a3000 body.

...is neither necessary for a RF-like APS-C E-mount body (both APS-C sensor and EVF can be easily fitted into the small N7 body, and no humps are necessary), nor desirable:

it will only make the whole larger, but nothing will be gained

jpr2

Which is why I find these ideas about Sony not continuing with RF form as being wild imaginations of a few much less with the frequency we see threads created on the subject.

Do you have any evidence that they will continue the APS-C RF form? It would be nice at this point in the discussion. Do you have any insight into when the long-overdue NEX-7 rangefinder update model, under any name, will finally be introduced? (Even SAR has given up on that one.) Are are you just taking Sony on faith that whatever they do or don't do, it will always be a happy outcome. Are you a BELIEVER?

Look at A7. It combines NEX-7 form with RX1 w/EVF. If you believe Sony were now going for DSLR form, you would see something like A7000 instead. And Sony could have introduced NEX-5R replacement as A5000 but didn't. Take your best guess ad to why it did not.

SAR is a rumor site that posts guess work and bits of info from various sources. One such piece is a news that all Alpha NEX bodies will be called Alpha. This has nothing to do with Sony not keeping the RF form. The RF form will continue as Ax series. Sony has already indicated that NEX-7 replacement will be announced soon. I expect around spring 2014. That it will continue the form is a no brainer... Whether Sony will use A6/A6r duo to replace NEX 6/7 duo is my only curiosity (and hope).

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to parallaxproblem, Nov 11, 2013

areichow wrote:

Finally, the voice of reason.

No, the voice of 'comfort'

Not necessarily the same thing...

You should expect voice of reason as voice of comfort unless you prefer to remain irrational.

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120 to 35
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Re: re: could you please expound a bit??
In reply to parallaxproblem, Nov 11, 2013

parallaxproblem wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...to replace the so far reigning RF-like little bricks of [former] Nex'es, but I think they are in a teeny-weeny minority, at least if this little poll can be taken as measuring correct temperatures . As all indifferent and "don't care" will fall into that last category of 7%:

What is the camera you are hoping to see in February?

  • New FF A-mount - 40%, 2,658 Votes
  • New NEX-7 alike FF E-mount - 29%, 1,979 Votes
  • New APS-C A-mount - 22%, 1,510 Votes
  • NEX-7 upgrade - 22%, 1,480 Votes
  • New RX2 - 8%, 564 Votes
  • New APS-C E-mount compact camera - 7%, 493 Votes

Total Voters: 6,724

Is the overall 51% asking for N7 mk-II with either FF or APS-C sensor a result which will sway Sony in favor to keep the Nex-like form factor alive?

Perhaps not, but... WHAT ELSE can we do except voicing our concerns and hopes?!!

So, I think that anyone telling the OP to shut up and go away is not only uncivil and outright vulgar, but more importantly they're doing a gross disservice to their best interest and hopes !!

jpr2

Opinion polls are always conducted on a sample of those involved. The poll is certainly not representative of new customers who do not own a Sony camera and do not visit a rumor site about Sony. It is representative of existing owners, especially those interested in new models.

I agree the existing fans of RF style cameras should make their views heard, repeatedly if necessary, in a positive way. I recall you have done this positively on a few occasions.

But when some of the posts look completely anti-Sony they are harming the "campaign" if there is one.

In recent weeks I have commented on some of those opinion threads with a more positive view about the prospects of E-mount cameras. Many others have done the same. But it seems negative posters are not really interested in other users opinions and repeat the harmful anti-Sony message whenever there is an opportunity.

So I no longer believe them when they say they are concerned about themselves and us as users.

in which way voicing these concerns can be seen as "negative"?

After all it is Sony decision makers & marketing who are committing a PR suicide by keeping mum, while a single reassurance: "yes, we're going to continue with NEX-like form factor" (even if delivered in entirely off-hand manner in some interview or other) would suffice to appease all such fears

jpr2

You asked if I could expound a bit in which way voicing these concerns can be seen as negative.

An example of a positive way to express our concerns is like: "Sony, we like the shape of our cameras and plan to buy an upgrade. So we are looking forward to an upgrade shaped like this with these enhancements [ long list of suggestions here ] next year."

That was tried... a number of positive comments were put on the A7 blog asking for a confirmation of what the discontinuation of the NEX product name actually meant and whether there would be continuity of products in the future alpha range

There was no response!

The negative way is like "Because you didn't tell us about the models that you have not yet announced, we think you are abandoning your loyal users. People don't trust you etc."

Well, to be honest they've already done exactly that in the A-mount range on several occasions

A company with a correct customer realtionship model would attempt to sooth user concerns and issue re-assurances. In Sony's case they just said "by the way we've dropped the NEX product name and everything will be called Alpha in future" and have organised an interview with the A7 product manager in which the only thing he talked about was 'change'... hardly reassuring!

Why should the customers (who are have paid Sony for these products) need to go cap in hand to Sony to find out what is happening with the product range that they bought into and that is announced as discontinued?

Regarding the second point you made, I think we shouldn't judge until the next round of actual E-mount model announcements. In the meantime we shall continue to voice our preferences positively.

The problem is that many of the people here are simply in denial... look at the first few responses to this thread. They people replying simply don't believe that it is possible that Sony can change the style of their E-mount cameras and are totally convinced that new Rangefinder bodies will be released next year

Sony will be delighted to hear this, or should I say the guys in Sony who have decided to change the body style will be delighted to hear this as it means that they can get their promotions and then leave the next poor unfortunate guys to handle the sh*t-storm when the existing customers finally wake up to the fact that their product range has been cancelled!

Nobody will hear your positively voiced preferenes because the only interpretation of 'positivity' will be happiness with the current situation of NEX cancellation to be replaced by A3000 and A7 series bodies

This is all negative speculation.

Think carefully. Sony has not abandoned its customers and many here believe it won't. These people are not in denial. Now if Sony does abandon their existing customers, there will be so much negative publicity from all those who bought their camera systems and had to sell off that it will impact Sony's sales in all areas in a very big way. So there is no indication that Sony will abandon their customers and let's not spread negative speculation.

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Greynerd
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Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to captura, Nov 11, 2013

The Panasonic GX7 shows the way things are going in that they have put the viewfinder back in the GX1 and added IBIS and it has a built in flash plus PASM dial. The Nex 5 has none of these and it looked pretty Spartan to me compared to the Nex 6 which I thought well worth the extra money, even without the touch screen.

I am sure the Nex 5 suits many people but it is minimalist in concept in that has it has the minimum accessories built in.

captura wrote:

Greynerd wrote:

Sony are not out of the woods financially yet so they have to generate revenue and they will only be loyal to a large customer base. Sony have spent a long time in the thin. If the A3000 does sell well that is the way they will go. They are not a public service and you are talking as if they are. The number of people posting on this forum are probably a minute fraction of the camera ownership and Sony might even think if DPR fans want it badly that is possibly commercially a bad thing to do.

I think the trend is away from minimalist cameras stripped of controls so the Nex3/5 may become history as all cameras do in the end. Best to wait and see at the moment as the speculation on E mount/A mount future seems pretty talked out.

captura wrote:

A good reputation for a camera company means loyalty to it's product purchasers. And one of the ways they can express loyalty is maintaining a line of products for a very long time, sometimes through thick or thin. That sort of continuity keeps people coming back, generating more long term customers. Do Canon and Nikon keep all those thousands of customers because their products are better? (We know they're not.) No, it's because people have a sense that the supply chain and the service is long-term reliable.

But Sony is not primarily a camera company. Cameras are just a sideline for them, of relatively little importance. Sony camera fans have shown their loyalty...and sometimes their fanaticism as seen occasionally on this forum. Common sense would dictate that Sony management needs to grow up a bit and start giving their fan base some of that loyalty back.

The NEX 5R/T are hardly minimalist cameras.

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nevercat
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Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to captura, Nov 11, 2013

captura wrote:

You write on the forum under what, 3 different names?

Tellme under what other names I write, as I do not know what you 'r talking about.

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