New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
Sonyshine
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Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to captura, 11 months ago

Nice sentiments but on reality if you want loyalty get a dog,

It's tough out there in the economy and companies need to innovate and fight for a share of an increasingly small pie.

Cameras are becoming smaller cheaper and more disposable like all other electronic goods. At least Sony is not afraid to innovate and rock the boat a bit.

For now I shall enjoy my current cameras. When I am bored with them I will change them.

Me loyal?

No. Only while something captivates me.

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Marla2008
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Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to Sonyshine, 11 months ago

The A3000 is *not* successful. It's already getting heavily discounted only two months after introduction, and every single serious review has pointed out unforgiveable flaws. It"s basically a crappy camera built around an excellent sensor.

There are enough serious users crying out for a NEX 7 replacement for Sony to understand it'd be suicidal not continuing the RF shaped bodies, at least for high end of the line. I see a 7 successor without AA filter in early 2014 as very plausible.

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Greynerd
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Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to captura, 11 months ago

Sony are not out of the woods financially yet so they have to generate revenue and they will only be loyal to a large customer base. Sony have spent a long time in the thin. If the A3000 does sell well that is the way they will go. They are not a public service and you are talking as if they are. The number of people posting on this forum are probably a minute fraction of the camera ownership and Sony might even think if DPR fans want it badly that is possibly commercially a bad thing to do.

I think the trend is away from minimalist cameras stripped of controls so the Nex3/5 may become history as all cameras do in the end. Best to wait and see at the moment as the speculation on E mount/A mount future seems pretty talked out.

captura wrote:

A good reputation for a camera company means loyalty to it's product purchasers. And one of the ways they can express loyalty is maintaining a line of products for a very long time, sometimes through thick or thin. That sort of continuity keeps people coming back, generating more long term customers. Do Canon and Nikon keep all those thousands of customers because their products are better? (We know they're not.) No, it's because people have a sense that the supply chain and the service is long-term reliable.

But Sony is not primarily a camera company. Cameras are just a sideline for them, of relatively little importance. Sony camera fans have shown their loyalty...and sometimes their fanaticism as seen occasionally on this forum. Common sense would dictate that Sony management needs to grow up a bit and start giving their fan base some of that loyalty back.

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parallaxproblem
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Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to captura, 11 months ago

captura wrote:

I could only find this,

"I am pretty sure more of this kind of DSLR shaped E-mount cameras will come in 2014. But buyers may get confused because of the new “everything is Alpha” marketing strategy. I bet it will be hard for non expert buyers to understand the difference between A and E-mount cameras."

That's just the SAR wonk speaking his opinion with no supporting evidence. Although he may be right, who knows. Your guess is as good as mine, (or his.)

Then I found this, "The A7 effect: Plenty of refurbished or open box RX1 for sale"

Originally $2799, they have dropped to as low as $2199, refurbished, at Dealsboom.

Look at the comments section, and then take the third comment down and see the reply from the site admin

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nevercat
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Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to parallaxproblem, 11 months ago

parallaxproblem wrote:

I can't insert the link here, but if you go to SAR and look at the comments under the latest A3000 article you will see the following:

@admin “I am pretty sure more of this kind of DSLR shaped E-mount cameras will come in 2014″ form Infos from your sources or it is a “felling”?

Reply (from admin): sources

Do you love Sony enough to suffer lugging around an A3000 type monster around as your next camera?

Dear mr parallaxproblem,

You are jumping to conclusions again. First: look up  the meaning of the word RUMOR!
Second Andrea say that sources tells him that more DSLR styled bodies will come, he does not tell that no range finder cameras will come. it is YOUR claim, and yours only that there will be no more rangefinder styled camera anymore...

So the title of your thread is misleading or misinformation.....

Again can you show any real evidence that your claim is right? Again I ask you this important question:

Why would Sony stop producing a formfactor that is selling well (there are 18 mirrorless cameras in the top 50, 17are rangefinder styled (from all brands)) The only none rangefinder styled camera in the list is the Olympus OM-D EM1. Why should Sony abandon this lucrative market?

The simple answer is: The will not! They will go on comming with RF styled cameras, but will add the DSLR styled  cameras too!

So I think Andrea and his sources are right, there will come more DSLR styled cameras (maybe A3000 styled, maybe A7 styled) in the future, but these will come along the RF styled cameras

And as answer to your silly question about the A3000 styled camera: Well when that is a good camera with all the futures I want, I may will, but I do not think I have to. Can you show me any evidence the A3000 is selling better than say the Nex 5t?

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jpr2
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re: perhaps some here would genuinely like for the a3k style...
In reply to parallaxproblem, 11 months ago

...to replace the so far reigning RF-like little bricks of [former] Nex'es, but I think they are in a teeny-weeny minority, at least if this little poll can be taken as measuring correct temperatures . As all indifferent and "don't care" will fall into that last category of 7%:

What is the camera you are hoping to see in February?

  • New FF A-mount - 40%, 2,658 Votes
  • New NEX-7 alike FF E-mount - 29%, 1,979 Votes
  • New APS-C A-mount - 22%, 1,510 Votes
  • NEX-7 upgrade - 22%, 1,480 Votes
  • New RX2 - 8%, 564 Votes
  • New APS-C E-mount compact camera - 7%, 493 Votes

Total Voters: 6,724

Is the overall 51% asking for N7 mk-II with either FF or APS-C sensor a result which will sway Sony in favor to keep the Nex-like form factor alive?

Perhaps not, but... WHAT ELSE can we do except voicing our concerns and hopes?!!

So, I think that anyone telling the OP to shut up and go away is not only uncivil and outright vulgar, but more importantly they're doing a gross disservice to their best interest and hopes !!

jpr2

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nevercat
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There is a problem with all these polls
In reply to jpr2, 11 months ago

jpr2 wrote:

...to replace the so far reigning RF-like little bricks of [former] Nex'es, but I think they are in a teeny-weeny minority, at least if this little poll can be taken as measuring correct temperatures . As all indifferent and "don't care" will fall into that last category of 7%:

But that was an option not given, so maybe the "don't care" did not fill in this poll.

What is the camera you are hoping to see in February?

  • New FF A-mount - 40%, 2,658 Votes
  • New NEX-7 alike FF E-mount - 29%, 1,979 Votes
  • New APS-C A-mount - 22%, 1,510 Votes
  • NEX-7 upgrade - 22%, 1,480 Votes
  • New RX2 - 8%, 564 Votes
  • New APS-C E-mount compact camera - 7%, 493 Votes

Total Voters: 6,724

Is the overall 51% asking for N7 mk-II with either FF or APS-C sensor a result which will sway Sony in favor to keep the Nex-like form factor alive?

But look at it this way: 6724 votes on a custommer base of what? 100.000? 1.000.000? It tells nothing! Then the choices, I could not ask for a DSL like E-mount, I could not ask for A7 alike APS camera.

The problem with polls like this is that:

It is not realy representative, as the majority of the buyers do not visit these foroms Look how 77% ask for a FF camera, in the real world FF cameras do not make 77% of the ILCs  arround...
The options you get are to much pushing you in one direction (to the Nex 7 style, as it is mentioned two times)

It is very hard to create a good poll, when the question is wrong, or the options are not realy clear than the poll has no value at all. Unfortunately this poll has no real value at all...

Perhaps not, but... WHAT ELSE can we do except voicing our concerns and hopes?!!

So, I think that anyone telling the OP to shut up and go away is not only uncivil and outright vulgar, but more importantly they're doing a gross disservice to their best interest and hopes !!

I think that everyone has a right to tell their oppinion, so the people who want the RF styled camera to stay alife and the people who don't care. But I do think that stating that a camera style is dumped by Sony, based on very weak points, and doing it over and over again is a bit over the top. Personaly I see no reason why Sony would leave the RF style, it is selling well. So maybe we all should step back and wait, Sony is reading this forum and knows our oppinion.

jpr2

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GXRuser
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Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to parallaxproblem, 11 months ago

Clayton1985 wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

I can't insert the link here, but if you go to SAR and look at the comments under the latest A3000 article you will see the following:

@admin “I am pretty sure more of this kind of DSLR shaped E-mount cameras will come in 2014″ form Infos from your sources or it is a “felling”?

Reply (from admin): sources

Do you love Sony enough to suffer lugging around an A3000 type monster around as your next camera?

and I'd probably use it alongside my new APS-C rangefinder shaped camera that Sony releases next year.

I hope you are right, but I'm about 70% certain now that you aren't

Don't you think you are being a bit silly telling Sony how happy you are with everything currently, if you want to see rangefinder bodies released in the future? A new team has taken over the camera division, we've seen an interview recently with one of their leading stars who made a point of saying that he was 'all about change' and clearly is not somebody to continue with the last manager's ideas. This isn't paranoia, it's the real situation

The only chance you have is to kick-up some kind of stink on the user forums otherwise these guys are just going to quote 'Amazon pre-order stats' to their senior bosses, get promotions and move-on elsewhere leaving you stuck with the product strategy they have put in place

If you find yourself stuck with an E-mount product range next year which is:

- A3000

- A5000 (similar body to A3000 but improved specs)

- maybe an A7000 (high-end A3000-like body), though maybe not

- A7

- A7r

- A9 ('Pro level' FE body, bigger than A7 with extra, new technology)

- All NEX bodies discontinued

Then you will only have yourself to blame

well, I am hoping for an A5 with an APS-C sensor in a A7 sized body... much thinner than the a3000 body.

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areichow
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Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to nevercat, 11 months ago

Finally, the voice of reason.

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Habs Fan27
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Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to GXRuser, 11 months ago

Clayton1985 wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

I can't insert the link here, but if you go to SAR and look at the comments under the latest A3000 article you will see the following:

@admin “I am pretty sure more of this kind of DSLR shaped E-mount cameras will come in 2014″ form Infos from your sources or it is a “felling”?

Reply (from admin): sources

Do you love Sony enough to suffer lugging around an A3000 type monster around as your next camera?

and I'd probably use it alongside my new APS-C rangefinder shaped camera that Sony releases next year.

I hope you are right, but I'm about 70% certain now that you aren't

Don't you think you are being a bit silly telling Sony how happy you are with everything currently, if you want to see rangefinder bodies released in the future? A new team has taken over the camera division, we've seen an interview recently with one of their leading stars who made a point of saying that he was 'all about change' and clearly is not somebody to continue with the last manager's ideas. This isn't paranoia, it's the real situation

The only chance you have is to kick-up some kind of stink on the user forums otherwise these guys are just going to quote 'Amazon pre-order stats' to their senior bosses, get promotions and move-on elsewhere leaving you stuck with the product strategy they have put in place

If you find yourself stuck with an E-mount product range next year which is:

- A3000

- A5000 (similar body to A3000 but improved specs)

- maybe an A7000 (high-end A3000-like body), though maybe not

- A7

- A7r

- A9 ('Pro level' FE body, bigger than A7 with extra, new technology)

- All NEX bodies discontinued

Then you will only have yourself to blame

well, I am hoping for an A5 with an APS-C sensor in a A7 sized body... much thinner than the a3000 body.

I would think this might be a fair assumption as to what direction Sony might go. Something similar to the A7 to keep things looking similar. As long as it's smallish, I don't care where the VF is.

On an other note, you gotta love the daily Sony is going to stop making (fill in the blank) thread.

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justmeMN
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If you can't...
In reply to parallaxproblem, 11 months ago

If you can't beat them (DSLRs), make your (mirrorless) cameras look like them.

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120 to 35
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Re: re: perhaps some here would genuinely like for the a3k style...
In reply to jpr2, 11 months ago

jpr2 wrote:

...to replace the so far reigning RF-like little bricks of [former] Nex'es, but I think they are in a teeny-weeny minority, at least if this little poll can be taken as measuring correct temperatures . As all indifferent and "don't care" will fall into that last category of 7%:

What is the camera you are hoping to see in February?

  • New FF A-mount - 40%, 2,658 Votes
  • New NEX-7 alike FF E-mount - 29%, 1,979 Votes
  • New APS-C A-mount - 22%, 1,510 Votes
  • NEX-7 upgrade - 22%, 1,480 Votes
  • New RX2 - 8%, 564 Votes
  • New APS-C E-mount compact camera - 7%, 493 Votes

Total Voters: 6,724

Is the overall 51% asking for N7 mk-II with either FF or APS-C sensor a result which will sway Sony in favor to keep the Nex-like form factor alive?

Perhaps not, but... WHAT ELSE can we do except voicing our concerns and hopes?!!

So, I think that anyone telling the OP to shut up and go away is not only uncivil and outright vulgar, but more importantly they're doing a gross disservice to their best interest and hopes !!

jpr2

Opinion polls are always conducted on a sample of those involved. The poll is certainly not representative of new customers who do not own a Sony camera and do not visit a rumor site about Sony. It is representative of existing owners, especially those interested in new models.

I agree the existing fans of RF style cameras should make their views heard, repeatedly if necessary, in a positive way. I recall you have done this positively on a few occasions.

But when some of the posts look completely anti-Sony they are harming the "campaign" if there is one.

In recent weeks I have commented on some of those opinion threads with a more positive view about the prospects of E-mount cameras. Many others have done the same. But it seems negative posters are not really interested in other users opinions and repeat the harmful anti-Sony message whenever there is an opportunity.

So I no longer believe them when they say they are concerned about themselves and us as users.

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jpr2
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re: as the "old" Nex-7 amply attested the faux-pentaprim hump...
In reply to GXRuser, 11 months ago

GXRuser wrote:

well, I am hoping for an A5 with an APS-C sensor in a A7 sized body... much thinner than the a3000 body.

...is neither necessary for a RF-like APS-C E-mount body (both APS-C sensor and EVF can be easily fitted into the small N7 body, and no humps are necessary), nor desirable:

it will only make the whole larger, but nothing will be gained

jpr2

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jpr2
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re: could you please expound a bit??
In reply to 120 to 35, 11 months ago

120 to 35 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...to replace the so far reigning RF-like little bricks of [former] Nex'es, but I think they are in a teeny-weeny minority, at least if this little poll can be taken as measuring correct temperatures . As all indifferent and "don't care" will fall into that last category of 7%:

What is the camera you are hoping to see in February?

  • New FF A-mount - 40%, 2,658 Votes
  • New NEX-7 alike FF E-mount - 29%, 1,979 Votes
  • New APS-C A-mount - 22%, 1,510 Votes
  • NEX-7 upgrade - 22%, 1,480 Votes
  • New RX2 - 8%, 564 Votes
  • New APS-C E-mount compact camera - 7%, 493 Votes

Total Voters: 6,724

Is the overall 51% asking for N7 mk-II with either FF or APS-C sensor a result which will sway Sony in favor to keep the Nex-like form factor alive?

Perhaps not, but... WHAT ELSE can we do except voicing our concerns and hopes?!!

So, I think that anyone telling the OP to shut up and go away is not only uncivil and outright vulgar, but more importantly they're doing a gross disservice to their best interest and hopes !!

jpr2

Opinion polls are always conducted on a sample of those involved. The poll is certainly not representative of new customers who do not own a Sony camera and do not visit a rumor site about Sony. It is representative of existing owners, especially those interested in new models.

I agree the existing fans of RF style cameras should make their views heard, repeatedly if necessary, in a positive way. I recall you have done this positively on a few occasions.

But when some of the posts look completely anti-Sony they are harming the "campaign" if there is one.

In recent weeks I have commented on some of those opinion threads with a more positive view about the prospects of E-mount cameras. Many others have done the same. But it seems negative posters are not really interested in other users opinions and repeat the harmful anti-Sony message whenever there is an opportunity.

So I no longer believe them when they say they are concerned about themselves and us as users.

in which way voicing these concerns can be seen as "negative"?

After all it is Sony decision makers & marketing who are committing a PR suicide by keeping mum,  while a single reassurance: "yes, we're going to continue with NEX-like form factor" (even if delivered in entirely off-hand manner in some interview or other) would suffice to appease all such fears

jpr2

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: re: as the "old" Nex-7 amply attested the faux-pentaprim hump...
In reply to jpr2, 11 months ago

GXRuser wrote:

well, I am hoping for an A5 with an APS-C sensor in a A7 sized body... much thinner than the a3000 body.

...is neither necessary for a RF-like APS-C E-mount body (both APS-C sensor and EVF can be easily fitted into the small N7 body, and no humps are necessary), nor desirable:

it will only make the whole larger, but nothing will be gained

jpr2

Which is why I find these ideas about Sony not continuing with RF form as being wild imaginations of a few much less with the frequency we see threads created on the subject.

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to Keit ll, 11 months ago

The problem is that everyone is guessing about the future of rangefinder styled bodies & Sony need to understand that all this speculation is causing damage to their market prospects.

The NEX series has been exclusively established by selling rangefinder styled cameras so why leave current owners in the dark ?

And what exactly do you want Sony to do? Can you simply not look at A7 and figure out Sony's commitment to the thin form factor? Can you not see that Sony has launched FOUR APSc models with RF form over last 12 months?

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jpr2
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re: as the "old" Nex-7 amply attested the faux-pentaprim hump...
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, 11 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

GXRuser wrote:

well, I am hoping for an A5 with an APS-C sensor in a A7 sized body... much thinner than the a3000 body.

...is neither necessary for a RF-like APS-C E-mount body (both APS-C sensor and EVF can be easily fitted into the small N7 body, and no humps are necessary), nor desirable:

it will only make the whole larger, but nothing will be gained

jpr2

Which is why I find these ideas about Sony not continuing with RF form as being wild imaginations of a few much less with the frequency we see threads created on the subject.

well, few months ago - if you'd tell us that S. are going to release an ugly monstrosity, full of empty space filled with air but containing exactly the same components as N3, with perhaps some tiny improvements here and there but also compromising some other components - in the form of a3k, than in all probability everyone would paint you as a stark raving-mad lunatic

and yet... it is a fact = the a3k is here, the Nex name is no more, and so far nothing in the RF-form... is even rumored

jpr2

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: re: as the "old" Nex-7 amply attested the faux-pentaprim hump...
In reply to jpr2, 11 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

GXRuser wrote:

well, I am hoping for an A5 with an APS-C sensor in a A7 sized body... much thinner than the a3000 body.

...is neither necessary for a RF-like APS-C E-mount body (both APS-C sensor and EVF can be easily fitted into the small N7 body, and no humps are necessary), nor desirable:

it will only make the whole larger, but nothing will be gained

jpr2

Which is why I find these ideas about Sony not continuing with RF form as being wild imaginations of a few much less with the frequency we see threads created on the subject.

well, few months ago - if you'd tell us that S. are going to release an ugly monstrosity, full of empty space filled with air but containing exactly the same components as N3, with perhaps some tiny improvements here and there but also compromising some other components - in the form of a3k, than in all probability everyone would paint you as a stark raving-mad lunatic

and yet... it is a fact = the a3k is here, the Nex name is no more, and so far nothing in the RF-form... is even rumored

jpr2

It is an additional option, not a replacement for 3N. In fact it may be considered a replacement for A3x as A mount buyers moaned and groaned about A3x/A5x being too small and light for their personal taste. So how did Sony react? A57 gained size, and newer launches since A55 were bigger (see A65/77). But that left small form factor behind. That is where A3000 steps in.

Patience is a virtue. NEX replacements will continue the theme. Even when Sony needed a larger body for the full frame, they stuck with the form that combines RX1 and NEX-7.

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captura
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Re: New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000
In reply to Greynerd, 11 months ago

Greynerd wrote:

Sony are not out of the woods financially yet so they have to generate revenue and they will only be loyal to a large customer base. Sony have spent a long time in the thin. If the A3000 does sell well that is the way they will go. They are not a public service and you are talking as if they are. The number of people posting on this forum are probably a minute fraction of the camera ownership and Sony might even think if DPR fans want it badly that is possibly commercially a bad thing to do.

I think the trend is away from minimalist cameras stripped of controls so the Nex3/5 may become history as all cameras do in the end. Best to wait and see at the moment as the speculation on E mount/A mount future seems pretty talked out.

captura wrote:

A good reputation for a camera company means loyalty to it's product purchasers. And one of the ways they can express loyalty is maintaining a line of products for a very long time, sometimes through thick or thin. That sort of continuity keeps people coming back, generating more long term customers. Do Canon and Nikon keep all those thousands of customers because their products are better? (We know they're not.) No, it's because people have a sense that the supply chain and the service is long-term reliable.

But Sony is not primarily a camera company. Cameras are just a sideline for them, of relatively little importance. Sony camera fans have shown their loyalty...and sometimes their fanaticism as seen occasionally on this forum. Common sense would dictate that Sony management needs to grow up a bit and start giving their fan base some of that loyalty back.

The NEX 5R/T are hardly minimalist cameras.

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nevercat
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Re: re: as the "old" Nex-7 amply attested the faux-pentaprim hump...
In reply to jpr2, 11 months ago

jpr2 wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

GXRuser wrote:

well, I am hoping for an A5 with an APS-C sensor in a A7 sized body... much thinner than the a3000 body.

...is neither necessary for a RF-like APS-C E-mount body (both APS-C sensor and EVF can be easily fitted into the small N7 body, and no humps are necessary), nor desirable:

Well the forfactor of the A7(r) is there for a reason. Look closely at the back of the camera and you will notice that the used LCD is much larger then the one in the Nex x cameras, the same goes for the EVF, larger qand better optics, making it impossible to put the EVF in the same place as in the Nex 6/7. So when Sony makes a nex 6/7 in the A7 body it will have a nice large LCD and high quality EVF. I think you can say that the form of A7(r) is very functional...

it will only make the whole larger, but nothing will be gained

jpr2

Which is why I find these ideas about Sony not continuing with RF form as being wild imaginations of a few much less with the frequency we see threads created on the subject.

well, few months ago - if you'd tell us that S. are going to release an ugly monstrosity, full of empty space filled with air but containing exactly the same components as N3, with perhaps some tiny improvements here and there but also compromising some other components - in the form of a3k, than in all probability everyone would paint you as a stark raving-mad lunatic

Tha A3000 makes perfectly sense, as does the form of the A7(r) (See above) but the A3000 is only logical when Sony continues with the small RF styled cameras. I see no evidence that Sony will stop producing the Nex styled cameras. I always thought that Sony was way behind with a DSLR styled camera (no I don't like the A3000, but it is not as bad as some make it look)

and yet... it is a fact = the a3k is here, the Nex name is no more, and so far nothing in the RF-form... is even rumored

The only realy shoking, that I did not expect was the end of the Nex brand, but Sony said clearly that the Nex was rebranded, so I see no problem there.

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music and dance:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341265280/
B&W:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623306407882/
wildlife & macro:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341377106/
interactive street:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623181919323/
Comments and critique are always welcome!
~

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