D610 vs. 5D Mark III

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
qianp2k
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Re: D610 vs. 5D Mark III
In reply to ron purdy, 11 months ago

Nice photos!  I really like colors and skin tone in these photos.  I'd recover overblown windows in #3, not really recover much details (as it's greatly overblown) but at least dim them out for less distractive.   That can be easily done by running a brush over them assuming you use LR to process RAW.

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qianp2k
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Re: D610 vs. 5D Mark III
In reply to ron purdy, 11 months ago

ron purdy wrote:

Trust me Bill, I am not asking you to help me with post processing, bu thanks for the offer

I am simply acknowledging and confirming that (like everyone has said) the Nikon has the better chip and yields better files, hands down. *Especially in difficult lighting situations such as that sample I posted.*

Nobody disputes Sony sensor is much better when you need to push up a severely-underexposed photo where Nikon wins hands down over Canon.

I have now personally confirmed for myself what DxO and the rest of the testers have already documented.

Only dispute the method that you exposed on highlight that will result a severe underexposed photo, and then pushing many stops back. I am a strong believer of exposing on mid-tone (middle) or even a bit of overexposed (so-called ETTR, exposed to right). Jeff Schewe is one of strong advocators for ETTR method and he has many fantastic landscape photos if you check.

Sorry but when I saw your that poor sample, my thinking is that either you don't know how to take photos (that seem not the case when you demo those nice photos) or you don't know how to process under such contrast scenes that maybe the case.

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Mikael Risedal
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Re: D610 vs. 5D Mark III
In reply to Slideshow Bob, 11 months ago

Slideshow Bob wrote:

I'm not doubting how happy you are with the camera (and I'll admit that I haven't used a D610), but for "people" photographs, I'd expect the 5DIII to have better skin tones. Of the cameras I've used (Canon, Nikon, and Fuji), I'd rate the Nikon last for skin tones. I always thought the Nikons were great for mechanical stuff, and I use them when shooting aircraft. But IMHO, unless you want to get into colour calibration cards, Canon does people better.

Or am I missing something with Nikon's latest DSLR?

SB

why on earth do you think any Canon have better skin tones?

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Mikael Risedal
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Re: white balance
In reply to ron purdy, 11 months ago

ron purdy wrote:

Supposedly the new Expeed processor in the D610 has an updated WB.

This could be the reason that he has not noticed any difference between the 5DIII vs. D610

I find under artificial lighting white balance is better with the D610. Daylight they are about the same, though the Canon can go a bit magenta sometimes.

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ron purdy dot com

the magenta cast is due the profiles, I use my own profiles  together with my Canon and Nikon, generated by  www.qpcard.com

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t.c. marino
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Re: D610 vs. 5D Mark III
In reply to qianp2k, 11 months ago

qianp2k wrote:

SushiEater wrote:

I would definitely bought D600 instead of this stupid 5d3 if it had CF card instead of SD card.

If you shoot mainly BIF, sports, airshow, motorsports and wildlife you will not think this way. 5DIII AF is superior than D600/D610 AF in tracking. 5DIII has deeper buffer and most importantly cleaning buffer much faster with 1000x CF card that is critical in action shots. BTW why you still keep your "stupid" 5DIII? As a matter of fact, you're the only person bashes 5D3 down to stupid level from what I have heard.

It would save me $1500 for more lenses.

C'mon. Let's talking street price. You can get $3K 5D3 everywhere daily now. So certainly is not $1500 price difference. Nevertheless they are cameras at different levels. 5DIII better AF, build quality and handling/griping alone already put it in higher league than D610/D600.

I had so many problems and lost so many SD cards that it is not even funny. Plus even the fastest SD cards somehow slow in the camera and slow in the outside devices.

Personally I never have issues in SD cards either as never with CF cards. SD is slower compared to CF card that is true.

BTW, DXO got it all wrong probably because they don't have access to lenses as much as Lens Rentals. D600 and especially D800 outresolve 5D3 even with lesser lenses.

Yeah, including DXO DR test is 'wrong' too, lol. From where you concluded D600 outresolves 5D3 with lesser lenses?

There was an article posted here on this site but somehow DPR decided to remove it probably because a lot of Canon fanboys were upset.

I read it's between D800E and 5D3, not with D600/D610. 36mp with excellent Tamron zoom outresolves 5D3 with Canon zoom is understandable. Even DXO shows almost tied in p-mpix that is perceptual sharpness not absolute resolution, related but not the same. Two tests don't conflict each other. I doubt 2 mp difference will let D610/D600 with lesser lenses outresolves 5D3 with better lenses.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/a-24-70mm-system-comparison show D800 outresolve 5D3 even though 5D3 was using the best Canon lens and D800 was using Tamron which is even below Nikon 24-70G in resolution but not by much. I trust Lens Rentals much more than DXO.

Personally I trust DXO more (not suggest Roger is not good). They tested in different ways but you trying to compare apple to orange.

Congrats on D610.

Agreed, good luck to OP.

i'm nikon guy and get great results with my nikons..and all other cameras.that 5d3 is a really nice camera to shoot with.above poster is correct in af speed overall performance and build quality advantages of 5d3 over d600/610 AND  canon 6d. image quality amongs the current ff cameras are pretty much equal.happy shooting

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Mikael Risedal
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Re: D610 vs. 5D Mark III
In reply to qianp2k, 11 months ago

qianp2k wrote:

If D610 has the same sensor of D600 minus oil leaking (that is from shutter box from what I read)? If yes, then from tons of comparison we have seen so far between D600 and 5DIII, D600 IQ is not much better. I don't see 'ugly' noises from my 5DIII files. Right exposure is the key that I expose on mid-tone or many times even a bit of overexposure (so-called ETTR). You can call biased but I prefer Canon colors and skin tone from what I have seen. You can see many my 5D3 files in the links below. It also depends on what lenses you use. I use some best lenses in industry such as 24-70L II and 70-200L II that both are better than Nikon's counterparts, and actually 5DIII with these two f/2.8 zoom is sharper than D600 (D610 should the same) with respective lenses, as confirmed in DXO system test. 5DIII otherwise shoot a bit faster with noticeably deeper buffer depth and clean buffer much faster (with 1000X CF card) that is critical in sports, wildlife, airshow/motorsport etc action photos. Its build quality and gripping are (much) better than D610/D600 as said by many. By this sense, D610/D600 is not at the same level of 5DIII.

right exposed a typical Canon myth when the DR are inferior to Sonys sensor, either you expose so you cover a contrast rich motive= reproduce high lights correct with no clipping and then adjust the rest in the picture= moving middle grey and shadows up = more visible noise in a Canon or you expose and cut high lights with your Canon

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Mikael Risedal
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Re: D610 vs. 5D Mark III
In reply to Keith Z Leonard, 11 months ago

Keith Z Leonard wrote:

Yeah, I can't comment on the D600 or 610, but I certainly don't need to add noise reduction to the 5D3 at low ISO. How is OP inspecting these files??

well take a look than in a contrasty motive where all high lights are intact and then  in the shadows, there you find banding and noise in comparison with Sonys sensor in the lower levels

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Re: D610 vs. 5D Mark III
In reply to ron purdy, 11 months ago

ron purdy wrote:

I can not post the RAW. It is to be published, and thus is off limits. That is why I cropped it.

Like I said, using ACR, all I did was increase exposure by 0.3 stops, and use the shadow slider (and no, I did not jack it all the way up to 100%.)

This is simply a high DR situation situation which the Canons handle very poorly.

Most of my Canon shots are fine and can be used without issue, but some end up like this. And this is obviously the same issue that the 5D II had, and the same issue which is well documented all over the web.

re caspianm's question: It's an image from the 5D3.

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ron purdy dot com

well Ron, it is hard to discuss facts with people who haven't seen the difference between a Canon sensor with 11 stops DR and a Nikon with 14 stops, it is even harder to explain that with a Nikon you can keep high lights intact due  the exposing and later adjust the motive / picture in Raw or PS.

With a Canon you have less choices because of inferior DR, you have to cut either in the shadows or in the high lights

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Re: D610 vs. 5D Mark III
In reply to qianp2k, 11 months ago

qianp2k wrote:

SushiEater wrote:

I would definitely bought D600 instead of this stupid 5d3 if it had CF card instead of SD card.

If you shoot mainly BIF, sports, airshow, motorsports and wildlife you will not think this way. 5DIII AF is superior than D600/D610 AF in tracking. 5DIII has deeper buffer and most importantly cleaning buffer much faster with 1000x CF card that is critical in action shots. BTW why you still keep your "stupid" 5DIII? As a matter of fact, you're the only person bashes 5D3 down to stupid level from what I have heard.

It would save me $1500 for more lenses.

C'mon. Let's talking street price. You can get $3K 5D3 everywhere daily now. So certainly is not $1500 price difference. Nevertheless they are cameras at different levels. 5DIII better AF, build quality and handling/griping alone already put it in higher league than D610/D600.

I had so many problems and lost so many SD cards that it is not even funny. Plus even the fastest SD cards somehow slow in the camera and slow in the outside devices.

Personally I never have issues in SD cards either as never with CF cards. SD is slower compared to CF card that is true.

BTW, DXO got it all wrong probably because they don't have access to lenses as much as Lens Rentals. D600 and especially D800 outresolve 5D3 even with lesser lenses.

Yeah, including DXO DR test is 'wrong' too, lol. From where you concluded D600 outresolves 5D3 with lesser lenses?

There was an article posted here on this site but somehow DPR decided to remove it probably because a lot of Canon fanboys were upset.

I read it's between D800E and 5D3, not with D600/D610. 36mp with excellent Tamron zoom outresolves 5D3 with Canon zoom is understandable. Even DXO shows almost tied in p-mpix that is perceptual sharpness not absolute resolution, related but not the same. Two tests don't conflict each other. I doubt 2 mp difference will let D610/D600 with lesser lenses outresolves 5D3 with better lenses.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/a-24-70mm-system-comparison show D800 outresolve 5D3 even though 5D3 was using the best Canon lens and D800 was using Tamron which is even below Nikon 24-70G in resolution but not by much. I trust Lens Rentals much more than DXO.

Personally I trust DXO more (not suggest Roger is not good). They tested in different ways but you trying to compare apple to orange.

Congrats on D610.

Agreed, good luck to OP.

well more Mp is always better, but you need a good lens, and there are plenty

28Mp from a Nikon d800 is better than 19 from a 5dmk3

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Re: D610 vs. 5D Mark III
In reply to ron purdy, 11 months ago

ron purdy wrote:

There's always an excuse as to why the RAW file can't be made available. Don't you have a dozen other shots similar to this one that aren't going to be published? Post one of those.
--
- Bill

Bill, have a look at my web site if you doubt that I am shooting for publication.

I can not post RAW files from an outtake from that shoot.

However, this can be duplicated with anyone's 5D3, you don't need mine

Here is what you can do Bill: do you have a 5D3? Find a HIGH D.R file which was exposed for the highlights and bring the shadows up without using N.R. and post a 100% crop or post the RAW file (don't use DPP, as it annoyingly ALWAYS applies N.R. regardless of the settings.)

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ron purdy dot com

simple as that

that is why 14 stops DR is better than 11

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Re: D610 vs. 5D Mark III
In reply to ron purdy, 11 months ago

ron purdy wrote:

Trust me Bill, I am not asking you to help me with post processing, bu thanks for the offer

I am simply acknowledging and confirming that (like everyone has said) the Nikon has the better chip and yields better files, hands down. *Especially in difficult lighting situations such as that sample I posted.*

I have now personally confirmed for myself what DxO and the rest of the testers have already documented.

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ron purdy dot com

5dmk3 has the same banding as 5dmk2 but smother, the_suede and I have shown this facts here at dpreview , I have also shown the real difference in shadows years back and Canon people was screaming about right exposure etc when a APS blow my 5dmk2 out of the racing field

this is 6d and nikon d800 , 6D has less banding of all Canon SLR https://picasaweb.google.com/106266083120070292876/NoiseInShadowsD800AndCanon6D

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Apewithacamera
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Yawn.....Read enough... going to sleep now. Nite nite Dpreview.
In reply to Mikael Risedal, 11 months ago
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ron purdy
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Re: D610 vs. 5D Mark III
In reply to Mikael Risedal, 11 months ago

"well Ron, it is hard to discuss facts with people who haven't seen the difference between a Canon sensor with 11 stops DR and a Nikon with 14 stops, it is even harder to explain that with a Nikon you can keep high lights intact due the exposing and later adjust the motive / picture in Raw or PS.

With a Canon you have less choices because of inferior DR, you have to cut either in the shadows or in the high lights"

Yes indeed.

"well take a look than in a contrasty motive where all high lights are intact and then in the shadows, there you find banding and noise in comparison with Sonys sensor in the lower levels"

And yes indeed again.

In the sample I attached, if you go much higher in exposure, the islands disappear. Believe me - this is shot from my house, and I have photographed them many, many times.

*So in this case you have a choice: either clip the islands, or keep them from blowing and pull the shadows...(or use artificial light which I did not have time for in this instance.) And at times like these, the added 3 stops D.R. really comes through. (I have had the D610 for a little over a week now, and have been looking at several thousand files I have shot thus far.)

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SushiEater
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Re: D610 vs. 5D Mark III
In reply to qianp2k, 11 months ago

qianp2k wrote:

SushiEater wrote:

I would definitely bought D600 instead of this stupid 5d3 if it had CF card instead of SD card.

If you shoot mainly BIF, sports, airshow, motorsports and wildlife you will not think this way. 5DIII AF is superior than D600/D610 AF in tracking. 5DIII has deeper buffer and most importantly cleaning buffer much faster with 1000x CF card that is critical in action shots. BTW why you still keep your "stupid" 5DIII? As a matter of fact, you're the only person bashes 5D3 down to stupid level from what I have heard.

It would save me $1500 for more lenses.

C'mon. Let's talking street price. You can get $3K 5D3 everywhere daily now. So certainly is not $1500 price difference. Nevertheless they are cameras at different levels. 5DIII better AF, build quality and handling/griping alone already put it in higher league than D610/D600.

At the time of D600 to go on sale it was $1500.

I had so many problems and lost so many SD cards that it is not even funny. Plus even the fastest SD cards somehow slow in the camera and slow in the outside devices.

Personally I never have issues in SD cards either as never with CF cards. SD is slower compared to CF card that is true.

That is because you don't shoot in conditions I shoot. I broke many SD cards. I lost many because they are so small. And I wasn't even using SD cards in 5D3 or D800e. I have many other cameras with SD only use.

BTW, DXO got it all wrong probably because they don't have access to lenses as much as Lens Rentals. D600 and especially D800 outresolve 5D3 even with lesser lenses.

Yeah, including DXO DR test is 'wrong' too, lol. From where you concluded D600 outresolves 5D3 with lesser lenses?

It might depending how much lesser.

There was an article posted here on this site but somehow DPR decided to remove it probably because a lot of Canon fanboys were upset.

I read it's between D800E and 5D3, not with D600/D610. 36mp with excellent Tamron zoom outresolves 5D3 with Canon zoom is understandable. Even DXO shows almost tied in p-mpix that is perceptual sharpness not absolute resolution, related but not the same. Two tests don't conflict each other. I doubt 2 mp difference will let D610/D600 with lesser lenses outresolves 5D3 with better lenses.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/a-24-70mm-system-comparison show D800 outresolve 5D3 even though 5D3 was using the best Canon lens and D800 was using Tamron which is even below Nikon 24-70G in resolution but not by much. I trust Lens Rentals much more than DXO.

Personally I trust DXO more (not suggest Roger is not good). They tested in different ways but you trying to compare apple to orange.

Nope I compare true to false.

Congrats on D610.

Agreed, good luck to OP.

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Mikael Risedal
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Myth, Myth and Myth
In reply to ron purdy, 11 months ago

It is a pity that many of you don't understand the advantage of a large DR and the exposure= intact high lights, what middle grey means and the stops from middle and grey up to clipping of high lights , stops which are the same regardless you have a Canon or Nikon.

Below middle grey is the interesting part regarding DR, it means that I can with a Nikon expose shorter/less= and reproduce in high lights more far  above middle grey and later on compensate the results with lifting middle greys and shadows and also have more information from high lights down  to shadow= large DR

You can scream  yourself  blue  about exposure etc, in a comparison there are hard facts as read out noise, banding , dig down and you find it.

If we will race and I have a Porsche 911 you can not later set the roles / speed limits to 55miles/h l= you must drive correctly , in that case I can take a Ford Fiesta=compact camera

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SushiEater
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Re: D610 vs. 5D Mark III
In reply to roustabout66, 11 months ago

roustabout66 wrote:

SushiEater wrote:

I would definitely bought D600 instead of this stupid 5d3 if it had CF card instead of SD card.

It would save me $1500 for more lenses.

I had so many problems and lost so many SD cards that it is not even funny. Plus even the fastest SD cards somehow slow in the camera and slow in the outside devices.

BTW, DXO got it all wrong probably because they don't have access to lenses as much as Lens Rentals. D600 and especially D800 outresolve 5D3 even with lesser lenses.
There was an article posted here on this site but somehow DPR decided to remove it probably because a lot of Canon fanboys were upset.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/a-24-70mm-system-comparison show D800 outresolve 5D3 even though 5D3 was using the best Canon lens and D800 was using Tamron which is even below Nikon 24-70G in resolution but not by much. I trust Lens Rentals much more than DXO.

Congrats on D610.

You must have missed the part where he tested the Nikon 24-70 as well as the Tamron. The Tamron was about the same as the Nikon but both were behind the Canon 24-70 as a lens goes. 36 MP obviously out-resolved 22, but it was surprisingly close when using the better Canon lens vs the Nikon 24-70.

I did not miss anything. My points is that D800 will outresolve 5D3 even with lesser lens unlike DXO preaches. Maybe Canon 24-70mm is better today but doesn't mean it will be better tomorrow. There is always something better tomorrow as long as it is not in the Canon's camp.

By the way, last year Roger decided on a Canon 6D as his personal camera. With all the information he had at hand, he felt it offered the best combination of qualities.

That is his choice. And probably not for the reason we are discussing here.

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Mikael Risedal
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Re: D610 vs. 5D Mark III
In reply to roustabout66, 11 months ago

roustabout66 wrote:

SushiEater wrote:

I would definitely bought D600 instead of this stupid 5d3 if it had CF card instead of SD card.

It would save me $1500 for more lenses.

I had so many problems and lost so many SD cards that it is not even funny. Plus even the fastest SD cards somehow slow in the camera and slow in the outside devices.

BTW, DXO got it all wrong probably because they don't have access to lenses as much as Lens Rentals. D600 and especially D800 outresolve 5D3 even with lesser lenses.
There was an article posted here on this site but somehow DPR decided to remove it probably because a lot of Canon fanboys were upset.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/a-24-70mm-system-comparison show D800 outresolve 5D3 even though 5D3 was using the best Canon lens and D800 was using Tamron which is even below Nikon 24-70G in resolution but not by much. I trust Lens Rentals much more than DXO.

Congrats on D610.

You must have missed the part where he tested the Nikon 24-70 as well as the Tamron. The Tamron was about the same as the Nikon but both were behind the Canon 24-70 as a lens goes. 36 MP obviously out-resolved 22, but it was surprisingly close when using the better Canon lens vs the Nikon 24-70.

By the way, last year Roger decided on a Canon 6D as his personal camera. With all the information he had at hand, he felt it offered the best combination of qualities.

well we need better lenses regardless they are from Nikon or Canon, a good lens and the camera d800 has a resolution of 28Mp due DXO way of calculating , not bad or what do you think?

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Re: Myth, Myth and Myth
In reply to Mikael Risedal, 11 months ago

Mikael Risedal wrote:

It is a pity that many of you don't understand the advantage of a large DR and the exposure= intact high lights, what middle grey means and the stops from middle and grey up to clipping of high lights , stops which are the same regardless you have a Canon or Nikon.

Below middle grey is the interesting part regarding DR, it means that I can with a Nikon expose shorter/less= and reproduce in high lights more far above middle grey and later on compensate the results with lifting middle greys and shadows and also have more information from high lights down to shadow= large DR

You can scream yourself blue about exposure etc, in a comparison there are hard facts as read out noise, banding , dig down and you find it.

Confirmed.

And I do not care that much about resolution (all of these cameras have enough rez for print), but the Nikon ends up much higher rez in the end because you do not need to apply the detail killing N.R..

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SushiEater
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Re: D610 vs. 5D Mark III
In reply to Mikael Risedal, 11 months ago

Mikael Risedal wrote:

qianp2k wrote:

SushiEater wrote:

I would definitely bought D600 instead of this stupid 5d3 if it had CF card instead of SD card.

If you shoot mainly BIF, sports, airshow, motorsports and wildlife you will not think this way. 5DIII AF is superior than D600/D610 AF in tracking. 5DIII has deeper buffer and most importantly cleaning buffer much faster with 1000x CF card that is critical in action shots. BTW why you still keep your "stupid" 5DIII? As a matter of fact, you're the only person bashes 5D3 down to stupid level from what I have heard.

It would save me $1500 for more lenses.

C'mon. Let's talking street price. You can get $3K 5D3 everywhere daily now. So certainly is not $1500 price difference. Nevertheless they are cameras at different levels. 5DIII better AF, build quality and handling/griping alone already put it in higher league than D610/D600.

I had so many problems and lost so many SD cards that it is not even funny. Plus even the fastest SD cards somehow slow in the camera and slow in the outside devices.

Personally I never have issues in SD cards either as never with CF cards. SD is slower compared to CF card that is true.

BTW, DXO got it all wrong probably because they don't have access to lenses as much as Lens Rentals. D600 and especially D800 outresolve 5D3 even with lesser lenses.

Yeah, including DXO DR test is 'wrong' too, lol. From where you concluded D600 outresolves 5D3 with lesser lenses?

There was an article posted here on this site but somehow DPR decided to remove it probably because a lot of Canon fanboys were upset.

I read it's between D800E and 5D3, not with D600/D610. 36mp with excellent Tamron zoom outresolves 5D3 with Canon zoom is understandable. Even DXO shows almost tied in p-mpix that is perceptual sharpness not absolute resolution, related but not the same. Two tests don't conflict each other. I doubt 2 mp difference will let D610/D600 with lesser lenses outresolves 5D3 with better lenses.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/a-24-70mm-system-comparison show D800 outresolve 5D3 even though 5D3 was using the best Canon lens and D800 was using Tamron which is even below Nikon 24-70G in resolution but not by much. I trust Lens Rentals much more than DXO.

Personally I trust DXO more (not suggest Roger is not good). They tested in different ways but you trying to compare apple to orange.

Congrats on D610.

Agreed, good luck to OP.

well more Mp is always better, but you need a good lens, and there are plenty

Not necessary. If 7D was FF it would have 46mp. But it has less DR and more noise than 5D3. If D7000 was FF it would have 36mp with better DR and less noise than 5D3. Oh wait, it is.

So let's see if Canon can even make 46mp camera with at least the same DR and noise characteristic as D800. It has been almost 2 years already and still no answer.

 SushiEater's gear list:SushiEater's gear list
Nikon D800E Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 16-35mm f/4G ED VR Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-120mm f/4G ED VR +10 more
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Mikael Risedal
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,326
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Re: D610 vs. 5D Mark III
In reply to qianp2k, 11 months ago

qianp2k wrote:

ron purdy wrote:

Trust me Bill, I am not asking you to help me with post processing, bu thanks for the offer

I am simply acknowledging and confirming that (like everyone has said) the Nikon has the better chip and yields better files, hands down. *Especially in difficult lighting situations such as that sample I posted.*

Nobody disputes Sony sensor is much better when you need to push up a severely-underexposed photo where Nikon wins hands down over Canon.

I have now personally confirmed for myself what DxO and the rest of the testers have already documented.

Only dispute the method that you exposed on highlight that will result a severe underexposed photo, and then pushing many stops back. I am a strong believer of exposing on mid-tone (middle) or even a bit of overexposed (so-called ETTR, exposed to right). Jeff Schewe is one of strong advocators for ETTR method and he has many fantastic landscape photos if you check.

Sorry but when I saw your that poor sample, my thinking is that either you don't know how to take photos (that seem not the case when you demo those nice photos) or you don't know how to process under such contrast scenes that maybe the case.

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ron purdy dot com

1, expose them the same,

2.exposed so rich that no clipping occurs in high lights

3. look at the results in lower levels

4. You will find banding and noise in Canon compared to Nikon if the motive have wide dynamic range

5, questions?

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Member of Swedish Photographers Association since 1984
Canon, Hasselblad, Leica,Nikon, Linhoff, Sinar
Member of International anti-banding and read out noise Association

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