HUGE Df Apology!

Started Nov 10, 2013 | Discussions
Shotcents
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Re: HUGE Df Apology!
In reply to Gosman, Nov 10, 2013

Gosman wrote:

As I have suggested way back with the D800, let others try the camera first. Listen and learn and don't spend. Then jump in and buy if the reviews are good.

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Gosman

Gosman, have you gone off the deep end?

People like Nikonfan99 will determine the parameters of camera performance that are appropriate for all of us.

Get with it, man!

Robert

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nuke12
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Re: Give it a rest n/t
In reply to Shotcents, Nov 10, 2013

Some of your posts are excellent. Filled with useful information. Then you turn into this juggernaut preaching thing, that wants to turn the world upside down.

I think the Df will be a wonderful camera for the people that have that need. I certainly find it a beautiful piece of hardware.

You've posted in almost every thread concerning this camera. Usually on the defensive, if the OP has issues with the camera for their needs.

Why bother? You like the camera and feel it will meet your needs. Excellent, for you. Why in gods name would you start a thread and preach to the masses?

The Df is simply not for everyone. Most posters are not stating any kind of hate for the camera. Mostly reasons why the camera does not meet their needs.

It's your camera but you should not be pushing it on others.

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I'm a photo hacker. I use my expensive equipment to destroy anything in front of my camera. This is a special skill that can never be realized by low life photographers. A nurtured skill since the 1970's.

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Shotcents
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Re: Give it a rest n/t
In reply to nuke12, Nov 10, 2013

nuke12 wrote:

Some of your posts are excellent. Filled with useful information. Then you turn into this juggernaut preaching thing, that wants to turn the world upside down.

I think the Df will be a wonderful camera for the people that have that need. I certainly find it a beautiful piece of hardware.

You've posted in almost every thread concerning this camera. Usually on the defensive, if the OP has issues with the camera for their needs.

Why bother? You like the camera and feel it will meet your needs. Excellent, for you. Why in gods name would you start a thread and preach to the masses?

The Df is simply not for everyone. Most posters are not stating any kind of hate for the camera. Mostly reasons why the camera does not meet their needs.

It's your camera but you should not be pushing it on others.

-- hide signature --

I'm a photo hacker. I use my expensive equipment to destroy anything in front of my camera. This is a special skill that can never be realized by low life photographers. A nurtured skill since the 1970's.

Okay.

R.

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Nikonfan99
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Re: yours is a cowardly cheap shot, not an apology
In reply to Shotcents, Nov 10, 2013

I am not doubting your photography skills even if you are doubting mine. I like your photos. Argument is not over photography style or CC. I am questioning your point that your d800 has failed to live up to your standard for a travel camera and that a DF is nothing beyond an impulse emotional purchase. I already showed you PER NIKON SPECS the DF is similar in size to the D800 and that a lot of cameras fit into travel category and dont cost $2700. What you pay for in a DF is nostalgia and vanity. I would hope you could see why people are turned off by how a product can be released based on looks and vanity and said product is a turn off to some of us. Just say "I can afford it and I want it because it looks cool". Nothing wrong with that. People buy things everyday based on looks and not function. You wont win an argument based upon price and value. You can win on looks and vanity. Surely a travel camera can be had for much less but wont look as cool right?

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Shotcents
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Re: yours is a cowardly cheap shot, not an apology
In reply to Nikonfan99, Nov 10, 2013

Nikonfan99 wrote:

I am not doubting your photography skills even if you are doubting mine. I like your photos. Argument is not over photography style or CC. I am questioning your point that your d800 has failed to live up to your standard for a travel camera and that a DF is nothing beyond an impulse emotional purchase.

I have NEVER stated that the D800 failed to meet my expectations. It has exceeded them in almost every way, INCLUDING low light performance.

But last summer I shot a baby shower and my friend came along with his D4. We have a very similar skill level. We both got very nice shots and when we sat down at our Macbooks to do some quick PP there was no doubt that he had a better time. My files above ISO 3200 needed more work to look as clean. When the mother was blessed in very subdued lighting we both shot at 6400. I could get my shot close to his with downsizing and PP, but his was still better right down to colors and highlights.

95% of the time we had results so close that no one would care about the differences. Some of the time he loved the added resolution of the D800. At other times I could not believe the latitude the D4 had at high ISO settings that I would usually only use as a last resort. We both wanted the other camera's 5%. He has since added a D800 to his kit. Adding a 2nd D4 would make as much sense as me adding a 2nd D800!

I was thinking of buying a D4, but don't need a lot of the spec. I just wanted the sensor in a more sensible body for my needs. I shoot a LOT of portraits and candids for myself.

I fail to see what any of this has to do with "vanity."

I already showed you PER NIKON SPECS the DF is similar in size to the D800 and that a lot of cameras fit into travel category and dont cost $2700. What you pay for in a DF is nostalgia and vanity. I would hope you could see why people are turned off by how a product can be released based on looks and vanity and said product is a turn off to some of us. Just say "I can afford it and I want it because it looks cool". Nothing wrong with that. People buy things everyday based on looks and not function. You wont win an argument based upon price and value. You can win on looks and vanity. Surely a travel camera can be had for much less but wont look as cool right?

And I already proved via someone who HELD both that the size difference is a factor. The ONLY thing I like about the D600 is the smaller size and the Df is even a bit smaller. Why deny this?

The Df is a very capable cameras. IMHO it is you who has been blinded by it's looks and it has impacted your ability to recognize it's strengths.

I'm ALL about function. That's why I'm not ordering now. I'll wait for bugs to be settled and a bit more info before pulling the trigger.

Robert

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Jose Rocha
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Re: HUGE Df Apology!
In reply to Shotcents, Nov 10, 2013

What a lame post. You are obviously too excited with this camera, so don't waste your time and go buy it right now. I would.

Just because people don't need the things you need, doesn't give you the right to call them retards.

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Shotcents
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Re: HUGE Df Apology!
In reply to Jose Rocha, Nov 10, 2013

Jose Rocha wrote:

What a lame post. You are obviously too excited with this camera, so don't waste your time and go buy it right now. I would.

You would? Before getting ALL of the info and trying one? That's not a great idea.

Just because people don't need the things you need, doesn't give you the right to call them retards.

I think you missed the point, but that doesn't make you mentally handicapped.

Robert

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Jose Rocha
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Re: HUGE Df Apology!
In reply to Shotcents, Nov 10, 2013

Shotcents wrote:

Jose Rocha wrote:

What a lame post. You are obviously too excited with this camera, so don't waste your time and go buy it right now. I would.

You would? Before getting ALL of the info and trying one? That's not a great idea.

I would if I were just as excited as you are.

Just because people don't need the things you need, doesn't give you the right to call them retards.

I think you missed the point, but that doesn't make you mentally handicapped.

Right, now you sounded like a little boy. I didn't miss your point, because your point has been filling up this forum with DF rubbish. Enough said.

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Shotcents
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Re: HUGE Df Apology!
In reply to Jose Rocha, Nov 10, 2013

Jose Rocha wrote:

Shotcents wrote:

Jose Rocha wrote:

What a lame post. You are obviously too excited with this camera, so don't waste your time and go buy it right now. I would.

You would? Before getting ALL of the info and trying one? That's not a great idea.

I would if I were just as excited as you are.

Who's excited? I'd pre-order if that were the case. Just waiting to see how the Df pans out.

Just because people don't need the things you need, doesn't give you the right to call them retards.

I think you missed the point, but that doesn't make you mentally handicapped.

Right, now you sounded like a little boy. I didn't miss your point, because your point has been filling up this forum with DF rubbish. Enough said.

Nahh. You DID miss the point. And you STILL do. It's okay. Lots of people have knee-jerk reactions and don't understand what's going on. That's how most politicians operate.

On a totally unrelated note....just shot in the dark....D800 with Tokina 16-28mm at ISO 6400. I blew the bloody exposure! Rats. It does show the rainbow flare effect and the strongest I've ever seen it!

Cheers,

Robert

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Nikonfan99
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Re: HUGE Df Apology!
In reply to Jose Rocha, Nov 10, 2013

"I have NEVER stated that the D800 failed to meet my expectations. It has exceeded them in almost every way, INCLUDING low light performance."

-- hide signature --

If so why would you even say that a DF is needed and use "travel camera" as the reason? They are almost the same size.

"But last summer I shot a baby shower and my friend came along with his D4. We have a very similar skill level. We both got very nice shots and when we sat down at our Macbooks to do some quick PP there was no doubt that he had a better time. My files above ISO 3200 needed more work to look as clean. When the mother was blessed in very subdued lighting we both shot at 6400. I could get my shot close to his with downsizing and PP, but his was still better right down to colors and highlights."

---I have shot a lot of weddings/events and some have been in very low light situations and own fast glass (like you) and average iso 1600-4000 max. This is in a low light flash/no flash situation. You are shooting a baby shower at iso 6400? Where was this and last check the D800 is very good pushed to 6400 and the D4 gets a slight edge after 6400. You own a flash? Even in a dim church I use much slower iso.

"95% of the time we had results so close that no one would care about the differences. Some of the time he loved the added resolution of the D800. At other times I could not believe the latitude the D4 had at high ISO settings that I would usually only use as a last resort"

---that is the point. Just like I said negligible differences. So what exactly is the reason that a DF makes sense in your example?

I was thinking of buying a D4, but don't need a lot of the spec. I just wanted the sensor in a more sensible body for my needs. I shoot a LOT of portraits and candids for myself.

--Well this still makes no sense because the DF is not a more sensible body and if the size is close to the D800. Also if up to iso 6400 is great on a d800, what about the DF makes sense?

"I fail to see what any of this has to do with "vanity."

-- You may not see it but "retro looks" is the key selling marketing of this camera and the emotion that the camera brings. Not practicality or placement into the product line at a price that makes sense. The price is clearly based upon the design/looks and feel and desire it brings out.

And I already proved via someone who HELD both that the size difference is a factor. The ONLY thing I like about the D600 is the smaller size and the Df is even a bit smaller. Why deny this?

--MINIMAL differences. If size is your ultimate goal, many other capable options are hitting the market. Are you also saying that a D800 will take up that much more space to restrict travel?

"The Df is a very capable cameras. IMHO it is you who has been blinded by it's looks and it has impacted your ability to recognize it's strengths."

-- I actually AM NOT blinded because I see the marketing gimmick that the camera is and I know that it is priced because SOME people will pay a premium to have the look/feel. I pay for functionality and my money is valued to me so I buy value. I dont buy looks.

"I'm ALL about function. That's why I'm not ordering now. I'll wait for bugs to be settled and a bit more info before pulling the trigger."

--Most sensible thing you have said yet. Not buying now is a good move. The price will drop and I would pick one up (If I was in the market for one) after the hype has died down and the bugs worked out if any.

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T O Shooter
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Re: HUGE Df Apology!
In reply to Shotcents, Nov 10, 2013

Shotcents wrote:

I'm so so so so so so VERY sorry that....

1) Some people don't want a smaller DSLR

2) Some people don't want a lighter DSLR

3) Some people don't want a DSLR with absolutely top level low light shooting ability.

4) Some people don't like manual dials or class looks.

5) Some people can't work with 5.5 FPS.

6) Some people think the 39 point AF module is poor.

7) Some people think that a better viewfinder is of minimal value.

8) Some people don't care about a camera that handles well.

9) Some people don't appreciate a beautiful looking product that is also highly functional.

10) Some people didn't get every feature they wanted. Many of us did!

11) Some people, who bashed this camera childishly prior to trying it, will end up buying or wanting one.

12) Some people can't afford this camera.

13) Some people can't find a Nikon camera that suits them even though many of the great current shooters can.

14) Some people will be annoyed hat I started another Df thread.

15) Some people don't want a lower profile type of camera.

16) Some people don't want smaller files.

17) Some people think Star Wars is better than Star Trek.

So that's my apology. The Df is (for me) the only logical choice for a second body on the market. It ADDS something to me kit (as would a D4). A second D800 or entry level D610 does not.

It's so simple even a child can reason through it. Naturally, some adults just can't accept the facts.

Robert

thanks for taking the time to come up with this. Great to have all this info in one post

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Shotcents
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Re: HUGE Df Apology!
In reply to Nikonfan99, Nov 10, 2013

Nikonfan99 wrote:

"I have NEVER stated that the D800 failed to meet my expectations. It has exceeded them in almost every way, INCLUDING low light performance."

-- hide signature --

If so why would you even say that a DF is needed and use "travel camera" as the reason? They are almost the same size.

I think a LOT of people are wondering what you're smoking and not sharing! Lots of people bought the D600 to run around with because it's smaller than the D800. That's the only reason why I even thought of buying a D600. IT IS SMALLER and some folks want that. The Df is even SMALLER, noticeably so according to some hands on previews.

So what exactly are you talking about?

"But last summer I shot a baby shower and my friend came along with his D4. We have a very similar skill level. We both got very nice shots and when we sat down at our Macbooks to do some quick PP there was no doubt that he had a better time. My files above ISO 3200 needed more work to look as clean. When the mother was blessed in very subdued lighting we both shot at 6400. I could get my shot close to his with downsizing and PP, but his was still better right down to colors and highlights."

-- hide signature --

I have shot a lot of weddings/events and some have been in very low light situations and own fast glass (like you) and average iso 1600-4000 max. This is in a low light flash/no flash situation. You are shooting a baby shower at iso 6400? Where was this and last check the D800 is very good pushed to 6400 and the D4 gets a slight edge after 6400. You own a flash? Even in a dim church I use much slower iso.

The D800 needs more PP to get where the D4 is at ISO 6400. It's not only about noise. It's about mid-tones, color and so on. And that translates to prints as well. The baby shower was in the Bronx and was followed by a ceremony where the unborn child was blessed in a private room loaded up with some candles. My friend also shot at 12800 and got solid results with almost no PP. Workflow is why he loves the D4 sensor.

"95% of the time we had results so close that no one would care about the differences. Some of the time he loved the added resolution of the D800. At other times I could not believe the latitude the D4 had at high ISO settings that I would usually only use as a last resort"

-- hide signature --

that is the point. Just like I said negligible differences. So what exactly is the reason that a DF makes sense in your example?

I said 95% of the time. Do the math. That means 5% of the time we liked what the other camera was doing MORE. In photography 5% is a LOT. If I'm buying a 2nd body why would I choose something that DOESN'T fill that void.

Explain yourself.

I was thinking of buying a D4, but don't need a lot of the spec. I just wanted the sensor in a more sensible body for my needs. I shoot a LOT of portraits and candids for myself.

-- hide signature --

Well this still makes no sense because the DF is not a more sensible body and if the size is close to the D800. Also if up to iso 6400 is great on a d800, what about the DF makes sense?

Someone just posted a good thread explaining why the Df is less intimating to subjects. And that's based on the LOOK of the camera, which is debatable. From a performance standpoint I do plan to shoot lowlight candids next summer, especially on the water. Why would I want a 2nd body that doesn't maximize that capability? And why would I want a larger camera for that?

Explain yourself.

"I fail to see what any of this has to do with "vanity."

-- hide signature --

You may not see it but "retro looks" is the key selling marketing of this camera and the emotion that the camera brings. Not practicality or placement into the product line at a price that makes sense. The price is clearly based upon the design/looks and feel and desire it brings out.

That's a guess on your part. You and I do not know what the Df costs to produce. It may cost more than a D800 or less. I find the price a bit high, but that's a non-issue as my gear pays for itself over and over. Irrespective of price it's still a superior pick than a 2nd D800 for me because it adds something to the overall performance of my kit. A D600 would DECLINE the performance of my kit because the D800 is better overall and the DF bests it at high ISO. It's very simple.

And I already proved via someone who HELD both that the size difference is a factor. The ONLY thing I like about the D600 is the smaller size and the Df is even a bit smaller. Why deny this?

-- hide signature --

MINIMAL differences. If size is your ultimate goal, many other capable options are hitting the market. Are you also saying that a D800 will take up that much more space to restrict travel?

I'm talking about HOLDING the camera. Based on what I've been told and what I've seen I believe the Df will be the most comfortable DSLR to hold on the market. Obviously this will be subjective and I have to TRY one to see. Maybe I'll hate the feel of the thing. I thought I would buy a D600 until I held one...and saw the high ISO chroma noise.

"The Df is a very capable cameras. IMHO it is you who has been blinded by it's looks and it has impacted your ability to recognize it's strengths."

-- hide signature --

I actually AM NOT blinded because I see the marketing gimmick that the camera is and I know that it is priced because SOME people will pay a premium to have the look/feel. I pay for functionality and my money is valued to me so I buy value. I dont buy looks.

Some people bought the D800 for the 36 mp with no ability to EVER benefit from it. But they liked that HUGE mp count. There are always fashion shoppers for every product. What does that have to do with me?

"I'm ALL about function. That's why I'm not ordering now. I'll wait for bugs to be settled and a bit more info before pulling the trigger."

-- hide signature --

Most sensible thing you have said yet. Not buying now is a good move. The price will drop and I would pick one up (If I was in the market for one) after the hype has died down and the bugs worked out if any.

Well, there ya go! We agree on something!

Robert

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Fogsville
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Re: vanity (?)
In reply to Nikonfan99, Nov 10, 2013

Just curious (sincerely).... where does 'vanity' enter into the equation when using tools such as cameras?  I can see it with automobiles where brand names have taken on a certain stereotype, and the product becomes more than just a functional device.  But I've never thought about it with cameras (?)  Sure, the way a camera company might market a specific product can be suggestive of certain things, but then again I guess I've never really paid very close attention.  Camera advertising is generally not that ubiquitous, nor is it usually very class specific.

So, are cameras more like status symbols these days?  And what's with all the 'hipster' and 'poseur' designations?  What does that actually mean and why is it constantly mentioned?  And what does 'retro' really mean? How (and why) does a particular camera identify itself with a user's intent?  Does the device itself always directly identify with the type of product being produced (cameras produce products; i.e. a photograph to be consumed.) Or the type of producer?  If so, then how?  How does a Df mean the user is indeed a 'poseur?'

I suppose that underneath it all, this is really about a much bigger issue of general self-identity. Hobbyist photography has always been a leisure pursuit of the middle/upper class and no doubt identity gets tangled up into it.  Cars and watches were also symbols of the leisurely class at one time.  But all these products are commonplace today (and less costly) and so the particular model/brand can become more significant in respect to self-identity.

I actually don't fully understand 'vanity' when it comes to the Df.  Is it because the selling price is more than some of the other products that Nikon sells?  Or is it simply a perception that is developed by certain consumers who identify themselves with what they feel are more appropriate use value/cost equations (which itself becomes a type of self-identity issue.)

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u007
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Re: HUGE Df Apology!
In reply to Shotcents, Nov 10, 2013

Shotcents wrote:

I'm so so so so so so VERY sorry that....

1) Some people don't want a smaller DSLR

2) Some people don't want a lighter DSLR

3) Some people don't want a DSLR with absolutely top level low light shooting ability.

4) Some people don't like manual dials or class looks.

5) Some people can't work with 5.5 FPS.

6) Some people think the 39 point AF module is poor.

7) Some people think that a better viewfinder is of minimal value.

8) Some people don't care about a camera that handles well.

9) Some people don't appreciate a beautiful looking product that is also highly functional.

10) Some people didn't get every feature they wanted. Many of us did!

11) Some people, who bashed this camera childishly prior to trying it, will end up buying or wanting one.

12) Some people can't afford this camera.

13) Some people can't find a Nikon camera that suits them even though many of the great current shooters can.

14) Some people will be annoyed hat I started another Df thread.

15) Some people don't want a lower profile type of camera.

16) Some people don't want smaller files.

17) Some people think Star Wars is better than Star Trek.

So that's my apology. The Df is (for me) the only logical choice for a second body on the market. It ADDS something to me kit (as would a D4). A second D800 or entry level D610 does not.

It's so simple even a child can reason through it. Naturally, some adults just can't accept the facts.

Robert

I don't understand why mods haven't banned you for excessive trolling.

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Shotcents
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Re: HUGE Df Apology!
In reply to u007, Nov 11, 2013

It's so simple even a child can reason through it. Naturally, some adults just can't accept the facts.

Robert

I don't understand why mods haven't banned you for excessive trolling.

-- hide signature --

My travel photography blog - http://www.frescoglobe.com

Because I've posted valid info and haven't hurt, abused or attacked anyone. If you look at the thread, and actually read some of the better comments, this is a good open discussion.

On the other hand you have accused me of doing something I'm not while contributing nothing.

Robert

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Nikonfan99
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Re: HUGE Df Apology!
In reply to Shotcents, Nov 11, 2013

Lets cover this again.

- Size specifications!!!!!!! Not what someone feels. I can hold a lens and guess it "feels" lighter. Hold a camera and say it FEELS smaller. That dont make it so.

-I bought a D600 myself did not because of size. I bought because of smaller RAW files (Shooting 2,000+ shots a wedding and storing them). Did not have a need for heavy cropping which a bigger file offers. Price difference. I never looked and said look how much bigger the d800 is because it IS not!

-The difference up to ISO 6400 is negligible!!!!!

-Many smaller alternatives if smaller "travel" size is your reason. Travel photos are not critical photos and if they are take the D800.

The size difference removed, iso difference negligible, price the same, features removed....why the DF besides looks?

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Raul
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I am so sorry having to see this stupidity
In reply to Shotcents, Nov 11, 2013
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"There is not a thin line between love and hate. There is - in fact - a Great Wall of China with armed sentries posted every 20 feet between love and hate." (House)

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Nikonfan99
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Re: vanity (?)
In reply to Fogsville, Nov 11, 2013

If you go back and watch every nikon DF video, you will get that the LOOKS and FEEL (including sound) is what the focus is on. The tag lines are geared towards emotion. What sets the camera apart? The main difference? LOOKS and feel. I had quoted all the tag lines before.

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Shotcents
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Re: vanity (?)
In reply to Fogsville, Nov 11, 2013

Fogsville wrote:

Just curious (sincerely).... where does 'vanity' enter into the equation when using tools such as cameras? I can see it with automobiles where brand names have taken on a certain stereotype, and the product becomes more than just a functional device. But I've never thought about it with cameras (?) Sure, the way a camera company might market a specific product can be suggestive of certain things, but then again I guess I've never really paid very close attention. Camera advertising is generally not that ubiquitous, nor is it usually very class specific.

So, are cameras more like status symbols these days? And what's with all the 'hipster' and 'poseur' designations? What does that actually mean and why is it constantly mentioned? And what does 'retro' really mean? How (and why) does a particular camera identify itself with a user's intent? Does the device itself always directly identify with the type of product being produced (cameras produce products; i.e. a photograph to be consumed.) Or the type of producer? If so, then how? How does a Df mean the user is indeed a 'poseur?'

I suppose that underneath it all, this is really about a much bigger issue of general self-identity. Hobbyist photography has always been a leisure pursuit of the middle/upper class and no doubt identity gets tangled up into it. Cars and watches were also symbols of the leisurely class at one time. But all these products are commonplace today (and less costly) and so the particular model/brand can become more significant in respect to self-identity.

I actually don't fully understand 'vanity' when it comes to the Df. Is it because the selling price is more than some of the other products that Nikon sells? Or is it simply a perception that is developed by certain consumers who identify themselves with what they feel are more appropriate use value/cost equations (which itself becomes a type of self-identity issue.)

All good questions.

And on the face of it the Df is a perfectly fine DSLR with plenty of reasons for SOME shooters to take notice.

But the glossy coat IS bothering some people.

Here's yet another take. I like Subaru sports cars. I liked the WRX, STI and older versions of the Legacy GT. They are very capable cars that can show their rear bumpers to many cars that carry more street credibility...unless you know something about cars.

Then there's the issue of looks. The Subaru is UGLY. OMG, Subaru seems determined to make one ugly car after another, in spite of the performance!

Now imagine you bought a wonderfully fast, great handling, but UGLY STI. And the very next year they come out with a car that's a little less or a little more capable, but it's BEAUTIFUL!

How would you feel? Let's be honest. The D800 and D600 are not beautiful looking cameras. They look like giant game controllers and only the lenses give them any character at all. I paid 3K for my ugly D800! It look perfectly at home next to the Xbox controller!

And now there's the Df....it's really sweet looking. It looks classic, expensive and puts out a halo of quality. Well...WHAT THE HELL!? Why does my D800 and other cameras look like plastic poop? Why didn't DSLR makers make these pricey tools with some AESTHETIC PRIDE.

I guess most of us didn't notice until some of these retro cameras hit the market. But for those who love these tools, the Df looks wonderful. And I think we all know it will be a fine camera, if not a cutting edge machine; a well rounded blend of several cameras wrapped in a glossy package.

Since I have a valid reason for it's place in my kit WITHOUT the ambience, I can enjoy the beauty without really succumbing to it. But I think those who have no need are just a bit irritated by it's existence. And if the VF and rear LCD are better, even THAT will bug people who already spent on a D4 or D800.

The Df presses a LOT of buttons; not all of them good ones. The debate, anger, love and angst make that very clear. Some shooters were expecting the cleaning lady (D400) and a supermodel showed up. And she won't do windows, at least not for everyone.

Okay...I've officially gone off the deep end with all of this! Time to make dinner.

Robert

 Shotcents's gear list:Shotcents's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P7700 Nikon D800 Nikon D5200 Nikon Df Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II +10 more
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Shotcents
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Re: HUGE Df Apology!
In reply to Nikonfan99, Nov 11, 2013

Nikonfan99 wrote:

Lets cover this again.

- Size specifications!!!!!!! Not what someone feels. I can hold a lens and guess it "feels" lighter. Hold a camera and say it FEELS smaller. That dont make it so.

YOU hold a D4 and tell me if it feels ANYTHING like a D800.

-I bought a D600 myself did not because of size. I bought because of smaller RAW files (Shooting 2,000+ shots a wedding and storing them). Did not have a need for heavy cropping which a bigger file offers. Price difference. I never looked and said look how much bigger the d800 is because it IS not!

My brief consideration for the D600 was after using one on my boat. It was smaller and less of a handful than my D800. This may not matter to YOU, but it does for others. And form factor comes down to mm not inches. The Df will not handle anything like a D800.

-The difference up to ISO 6400 is negligible!!!!!

I'd say up to 3200, based on shooting side by side. You should look at what owners of BOTH cameras often say. They're quite clear about the strengths of BOTH sensors.

-Many smaller alternatives if smaller "travel" size is your reason. Travel photos are not critical photos and if they are take the D800.

They're not critical? Oh. Rats!

If the Df, D800, and D600 have typically negligible differences, why don't I just take the smaller better handling Df? It's not as if the Df doesn't have a stunning sensor at low ISO. I'd rather have the low profile body that helps me take great pics if the IQ differences are so small.

Bud, you can't have it both ways. You've talked yourself into a corner.

The size difference removed, iso difference negligible, price the same, features removed....why the DF besides looks?

Oh...if the size didn't matter, and it didn't have better handling and if the high ISO didn't matter to me...I wouldn't buy it no matter how it looks.

I didn't buy the D600 for the handling and the slight bit of extra chroma noise at higher ISO. Why would this be any different?

Don't you realize that you can't win a debate where your only tactic is to claim white is black? The Df IS smaller. It likely WILL handle better. The high ISO range IS better. The file size IS smaller. We'll need to learn more, but so far those are valid reasons. To you they may seem negligible, just like the guy who can't see/care about the way two cars handle. But for someone who understands and SEEKS something extra....he'll pay.

Diminishing returns? Absolutely. But returns all the same.

Now SHHHHHHH! Gotta make meatballs for the kids!

Robert

 Shotcents's gear list:Shotcents's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P7700 Nikon D800 Nikon D5200 Nikon Df Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II +10 more
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