Nikon DF, Why is the price so high?

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
Hulamike
Senior MemberPosts: 2,810
Like?
Re: Econ 101
In reply to Apollo18, 9 months ago

The price is relatively high, not low.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Thomas Kolenich
Senior MemberPosts: 2,038Gear list
Like?
Re: Possible reasons
In reply to joeyv, 9 months ago

As an owner of a D3, I think it is the sensor and "Made In Japan" that keep the cost high. The plant in Sendai, Japan is the premier manufacturing Nikon plant. Also I think that Nikon wants to get more volume on the D4 chip which has to be ordered in big volumes to get the best pricing.

-- hide signature --

Tom Kolenich

www.niceweddingphotos.com

 Thomas Kolenich's gear list:Thomas Kolenich's gear list
Olympus E-5 Nikon D3 Olympus E-M1 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D +7 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Rexgig0
Senior MemberPosts: 1,654Gear list
Like?
Re: is the price so high? Very fair
In reply to Bajerunner, 9 months ago

I agree; quite a fair asking price.

Being able to afford a Df may be a challenge, but it might well be feasible some time next year. Perhaps, the availability of the Df will drive down the prices of pre-owned D700 cameras a bit? Hmm...

-- hide signature --

I wear a badge and pistol, and, primarily with 7D cameras, with 10-22mm and 100mm Macro L lenses, shoot evidentiary images at night, which incorporates elements of portrait, macro, still life, landscape, architecture, PJ, and occasional action. During personal time, I enjoy using both Canons and Nikons.

 Rexgig0's gear list:Rexgig0's gear list
Nikon Coolpix A Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS 5D Canon EOS 40D Canon EOS-1D Mark II N +24 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tissunique
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,189
Like?
Re: Nikon DF, Why is the price so high?
In reply to larrywilson, 9 months ago

While already mentioned factors may add to the price I tend to believe that Nikon is pricing to what they think the camera's market will pay, with a firm eye on the bottom line, i.e. more profit. I would be interested in why they opted for the D4 sensor and not a newer one like the D610. After all 16mp is more of a journalist's resolution than (at current standards) the general run of consumer/serious amateur resolutions being offered by Nikon and other makers. In fact it's more in line with Fuji's latest X series cameras.

I don't even think the camera looks as retro as other cameras out there and in the flesh could look and feel quite clumsy. Recent full-frame releases have got me puzzled... perhaps the company is dipping its toe in 'retro' waters in preparation for another model in 2014

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tissunique
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,189
Like?
Re: Well this is Nikon's marketing plan...
In reply to antoineb, 9 months ago

"...the price is pretty good considering you are getting most of what makes a D4, for a much lower price."

It is nothing like a D4, in fact it's country miles away...

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
David314
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,632
Like?
The D800 lesson on price
In reply to jY h, 9 months ago

jY h wrote:

Hello, I'm the very happy owner of a Nikon D600 and have no plans of buying a new camera. However, the Nikon DF did catch My eye. I love the retro styling. Why is the price of this camera so high? Its sensor has lower resolution than the D600, it has no video capability, and no built in flash. Why would someone pay several hundred dollars more than a D600/610 and get less capability? I suppose it all due to the styling? Am I missing something?

perhaps the D800 taught Nikon a lesson and to throttle initial demand, the price will be held high and they will reduce it if it doesn't move

I think it is much easier to lower a price than raise it

and of course the obvious reasons others pointed out in regards to volume, etc.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
antoineb
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,075Gear list
Like?
same sensor same viewfinder better controls lesser AF
In reply to tissunique, 9 months ago

tissunique wrote:

"...the price is pretty good considering you are getting most of what makes a D4, for a much lower price."

It is nothing like a D4, in fact it's country miles away...

I'm not sure what you mean by "country miles away" - sounds kinda vague to me.  I prefer facts.

Facts are that it is the same sensor, and the sensor is key in any camera.  Is it the same image processing engine I'm not sure but likely given the ISO range.

Viewfinder my understanding is that it's the same viewfinder.

AF engine we know it's not the D4 engine but it's the lesser AF engine found on the D610/610 which itself was recycled from the D7000.  Not the very best but still quite competent.

Controls are markedly better because you can set, and read, parameters without even needing to turn on the camera or bring it to your eye.

Continuous shooting is less but still 5.5fps which serves many uses and likely most uses for the target market.

Video is absent and this is a daring bet but frankly video without continuous AF is quite a specialised thing, and again, Nikon's bet is that the target market for the Df doesn't care.

All this is $3k body-only, vs. $6k i.e. double for a D4.  Sounds like a very good deal to me for many people, and that's before we mention that the camera is also a good deal lighter and smaller.

If you have precise views on some aspects I'd love to hear them.

 antoineb's gear list:antoineb's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ18 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ8 Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS7 Olympus TG-610 Nikon D7000 +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
turbsy
Contributing MemberPosts: 655Gear list
Like?
Re: Well this is Nikon's marketing plan...
In reply to antoineb, 9 months ago

antoineb wrote:

jY h wrote:

Hello, I'm the very happy owner of a Nikon D600 and have no plans of buying a new camera. However, the Nikon DF did catch My eye. I love the retro styling. Why is the price of this camera so high? Its sensor has lower resolution than the D600, it has no video capability, and no built in flash. Why would someone pay several hundred dollars more than a D600/610 and get less capability? I suppose it all due to the styling? Am I missing something?

I think Nikon can be excused for thinking that there will be enough people out there who will love the physical controls (I love them) and not mind the size and weight (I do) and agree that the price is pretty good considering you are getting most of what makes a D4, for a much lower price.

Your getting the sensor from the D4 not the speed, build and definitely not the AF and metering. So how is that most of the D4

I just hope these are not the same people in Nikon's marketing team, who were responsible for the appalling choice of price points (way too high) on the "1". The "1" had its quirks, starting with horrible ergonomics on the early models, but it also had its qualities - it probably would have been a much more successful product if only Nikon had not priced it on par with mid-range DSLRs...

 turbsy's gear list:turbsy's gear list
Olympus XZ-1 Nikon D800 Nikon D300 Nikon D50 Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 EX DG Macro +11 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
u007
Senior MemberPosts: 1,678
Like?
Re: Nikon DF, Why is the price so high?
In reply to jY h, 9 months ago

jY h wrote:

I suppose it all due to the styling? Am I missing something?

That's exactly why. Because silly people see it and go "ooh, it's new and all shiny" and they are willing to overpay for the cheap tech that you can get for half the price in the D600.

Also, in general Nikon and Canon gear is getting seriously more expensive. New Canon 24-70 costs almost twice the old one. Nikon 58/1.4G which looks soft wide open is extremely expensive. And look at the price drops the D800/D600 have had since launch. Everything new is very overpriced, designed to maximise the profits from daft people who MUST be the first to own something.

-- hide signature --

My travel photography blog - http://www.frescoglobe.com

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Apollo18
Senior MemberPosts: 1,224Gear list
Like?
Re: Econ 101
In reply to Hulamike, 9 months ago

And your reason for this that demand is limited? Sorry, it makes no sense.

Perhaps other factors are involved?

 Apollo18's gear list:Apollo18's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon AF-S Teleconverter TC-14E II Nikon AF-S Nikkor 300mm f/2.8G ED-IF VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/4G ED VR +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Clark Hampton
Senior MemberPosts: 2,855Gear list
Like?
Re: Nikon DF, Why is the price so high?
In reply to jY h, 9 months ago

Made in Japan

 Clark Hampton's gear list:Clark Hampton's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon D200 Nikon D100 Nikon AF Nikkor 135mm f/2D DC Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-85mm F3.5-4.5G ED VR +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Apollo18
Senior MemberPosts: 1,224Gear list
Like?
Re: Econ 101
In reply to CFynn, 9 months ago

CFynn wrote:

Apollo18 wrote:

So, you're saying that the price is low because this is a niche camera with only limited demand? Doesn't sound right to me, with my limited knowledge of market forces.

I had thought it might be more to do with the type of buyer for camera of this kind, and the amount of disposable income a person like that might have.

A camera aimed at well heeled enthusiasts.

Yes, I think that's it.

 Apollo18's gear list:Apollo18's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon AF-S Teleconverter TC-14E II Nikon AF-S Nikkor 300mm f/2.8G ED-IF VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/4G ED VR +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
NCB
NCB
Junior MemberPosts: 30Gear list
Like?
Re: Nikon DF, Why is the price so high?
In reply to jY h, 9 months ago

Re resolution, do you need the D610 resolution? The Df may have less, but you are getting the superb D4 chip. So unless you make large prints or do severe crops the Df resolution is fine. No video, no built in flash? It's also got no scene modes, toy filters, and the rest. Great. It's for taking proper pics. If you want flash use a proper one.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
antoineb
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,075Gear list
Like?
"most" will vary according to the user
In reply to turbsy, 9 months ago

turbsy wrote:

antoineb wrote:

jY h wrote:

Hello, I'm the very happy owner of a Nikon D600 and have no plans of buying a new camera. However, the Nikon DF did catch My eye. I love the retro styling. Why is the price of this camera so high? Its sensor has lower resolution than the D600, it has no video capability, and no built in flash. Why would someone pay several hundred dollars more than a D600/610 and get less capability? I suppose it all due to the styling? Am I missing something?

I think Nikon can be excused for thinking that there will be enough people out there who will love the physical controls (I love them) and not mind the size and weight (I do) and agree that the price is pretty good considering you are getting most of what makes a D4, for a much lower price.

Your getting the sensor from the D4 not the speed, build and definitely not the AF and metering. So how is that most of the D4

I just hope these are not the same people in Nikon's marketing team, who were responsible for the appalling choice of price points (way too high) on the "1". The "1" had its quirks, starting with horrible ergonomics on the early models, but it also had its qualities - it probably would have been a much more successful product if only Nikon had not priced it on par with mid-range DSLRs...

- same sensor.  For me this defines "most" of the camera.

- different metering.  OK.  But the metering on the Df is that from the D610, and I'm not hearing people complaining daily about it.  So, not the Df but already very good.

- different AF.  OK, the Df recycles that from the D610, itself recycled from the D7000.  But again, I haven't read a review that said that either the D7000 or the D600/D610 couldn't AF.  So yeah, simpler but already very competent.

- same image processing engine

- same viewfinder

- slower continuous shooting.  But frankly if I want to capture action I can film it with my iPhone, and for the rest 5fps is more than enough for most users most of the time

- simpler build - but 710 gram body weight vs 1180, which is nice when you carry the camera all day

- much much superior controls with physical dials.  Physical dials allow you to (1) change settings w/o needing to turn the camera on nor looking at a top LCD not to mention the VF, and (2) read what settings have been set again w/o needing to turn the camera on nor look at the top LCD not to mention the VF.

So methinks the Df is really quite close to the D4, and actually superior to it in the convenience and controls department.  All this for HALF the body price.  Pretty good.

 antoineb's gear list:antoineb's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ18 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ8 Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS7 Olympus TG-610 Nikon D7000 +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Leif Goodwin
Senior MemberPosts: 1,390Gear list
Like?
Re: "most" will vary according to the user
In reply to antoineb, 9 months ago

antoineb wrote:

turbsy wrote:

antoineb wrote:

jY h wrote:

Hello, I'm the very happy owner of a Nikon D600 and have no plans of buying a new camera. However, the Nikon DF did catch My eye. I love the retro styling. Why is the price of this camera so high? Its sensor has lower resolution than the D600, it has no video capability, and no built in flash. Why would someone pay several hundred dollars more than a D600/610 and get less capability? I suppose it all due to the styling? Am I missing something?

I think Nikon can be excused for thinking that there will be enough people out there who will love the physical controls (I love them) and not mind the size and weight (I do) and agree that the price is pretty good considering you are getting most of what makes a D4, for a much lower price.

Your getting the sensor from the D4 not the speed, build and definitely not the AF and metering. So how is that most of the D4

I just hope these are not the same people in Nikon's marketing team, who were responsible for the appalling choice of price points (way too high) on the "1". The "1" had its quirks, starting with horrible ergonomics on the early models, but it also had its qualities - it probably would have been a much more successful product if only Nikon had not priced it on par with mid-range DSLRs...

- same sensor. For me this defines "most" of the camera.

- different metering. OK. But the metering on the Df is that from the D610, and I'm not hearing people complaining daily about it. So, not the Df but already very good.

- different AF. OK, the Df recycles that from the D610, itself recycled from the D7000. But again, I haven't read a review that said that either the D7000 or the D600/D610 couldn't AF. So yeah, simpler but already very competent.

- same image processing engine

- same viewfinder

- slower continuous shooting. But frankly if I want to capture action I can film it with my iPhone, and for the rest 5fps is more than enough for most users most of the time

- simpler build - but 710 gram body weight vs 1180, which is nice when you carry the camera all day

- much much superior controls with physical dials. Physical dials allow you to (1) change settings w/o needing to turn the camera on nor looking at a top LCD not to mention the VF, and (2) read what settings have been set again w/o needing to turn the camera on nor look at the top LCD not to mention the VF.

So methinks the Df is really quite close to the D4, and actually superior to it in the convenience and controls department. All this for HALF the body price. Pretty good.

It isn't on the same planet. The D4 is the flagship camera with state of the art AF, frames per second, shutter, metering, sensor, image processing and build. All the Df has is apparently the same sensor. We know nothing about the actual output quality, and we do not know what the viewfinder and build are like. So we cannot draw many conclusions, but it is no D4, it's a completely different animal, maybe a very good one. Should we not wait for actual tests, reviews and user comments before slamming it, or hyping it up? 

-- hide signature --

______________________________
Warning: this forum may contain nuts.
www.leifgoodwin.co.uk

 Leif Goodwin's gear list:Leif Goodwin's gear list
Nikon D200 Nikon D600 Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D Nikon AF-S Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 200mm f/4D ED-IF +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
adhall
Regular MemberPosts: 274Gear list
Like?
Re: Nikon DF, Why is the price so high?
In reply to jY h, 9 months ago

Because it's made in Japan...

 adhall's gear list:adhall's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Nikon D800 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
turbsy
Contributing MemberPosts: 655Gear list
Like?
Re: Nikon DF, Why is the price so high?
In reply to NCB, 9 months ago

NCB wrote:

Re resolution, do you need the D610 resolution? The Df may have less, but you are getting the superb D4 chip. So unless you make large prints or do severe crops the Df resolution is fine. No video, no built in flash? It's also got no scene modes, toy filters, and the rest. Great. It's for taking proper pics. If you want flash use a proper one.

why are scene modes such a bad thing?  I have had them on some cameras and I can just ignore them it's not like you need to use them because there there.

 turbsy's gear list:turbsy's gear list
Olympus XZ-1 Nikon D800 Nikon D300 Nikon D50 Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 EX DG Macro +11 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
lolopasstrail
Regular MemberPosts: 165
Like?
Re: Nikon DF, Why is the price so high?
In reply to turbsy, 9 months ago

Not buying the made in Japan thing.

The D800 was made in Japan, and had severe QA problems at rollout.  The way they obamacared that launch should make one gun shy that a high end product made in Japan is automatically by default special.

Or is Nikon hinting that its products made in Thailand are of lesser quality?  Way to throw a huge hunk of your own brand under the bus.

Not buying the D4 sensor thing.  What is the manufacturer's cost for the sensor- $30?  $60?  $90?

Nikon is trying to premium price the product to create an aura of exclusivity, period.  They have sprinkled it with magic dust and think everyone will find the special invisible dust sufficient reason to part with their hard earned money.  They have convinced themselves that this will be so.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Hulamike
Senior MemberPosts: 2,810
Like?
Re: Econ 101
In reply to Apollo18, 9 months ago

Basic market pressure works like this. If your new product has limited appeal, you must charge more for it to cover R&D and generate a profit. Fewer sales x higher price = profitability.

If your product has mass appeal, you can charge a lower price to generate a profit because youll make it up in volume.

Econ 101 like I said.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
lolopasstrail
Regular MemberPosts: 165
Like?
Re: Econ 101
In reply to Hulamike, 9 months ago

Hulamike wrote:

Basic market pressure works like this. If your new product has limited appeal, you must charge more for it to cover R&D and generate a profit. Fewer sales x higher price = profitability.

If your product has mass appeal, you can charge a lower price to generate a profit because youll make it up in volume.

Econ 101 like I said.

We don't know what Nikon's costs are for this.  It may be $300 per unit for all I know, over the course of its life.

If the D600 can be sold at its price point, with all its new for the first time r&d, then there is plenty of margin for a product that badge engineers various components and sells for a 50% uplift over an all-new D600.

They don't get to set a price in the vacuum, even for a niche product.  People have to buy it for that wish price, or the manufacturer risks going home with zero margin.

The market can kick your butt if your pricing misses.

Econ 102.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads