Nikon DF, Why is the price so high?

Started 5 months ago | Discussions
user_name
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Take a reality pill!
In reply to Alpha Tech, 5 months ago

Alpha Tech wrote:

The price is high due to company financials and flat out corporate greed. Did you read the recent financial report from Nikon? It was not exactly upbeat. If anything it means a possible continued decline for DSLRs. New models are priced higher so that development can continue with similar life cycle as in the past.

Then there is the second factor -- greed. The new Nikon management does not accept its own mistakes. It passes them on to the customers. The loss on all the D600 cameras and the redesign of a new model had to be paid for. Nikon is dumping the cost on the group most willing to pay for it, the Df customers. If they had simply priced the D610 higher than the D600, sales would have had too much decline worldwide. The end result is Df customers get screwed for Nikon's mistakes.

First, the Df will not reverse the downward financial spiral Nikon is experiencing.  Df sales would never be enough, this was designed to be a niche camera.

Second, Nikon is a publicly traded company and all their financial records are public records for anyone to review.

Third, if Nikon was really gauging customers and making excessive profits people would be buying Nikon stock like it was Google's IPO when they went public.  A mutual fund outperforms Nikon stock.

Sadly, I think your viewpoint is like so many that are lost in a sea of ignorance because you have allowed your personal opinions to be shaped and formed by groups of people with agendas that pretend to be working on your behalf.

While it may be nice to think that some organization or party really cares about you and wants to set the record straight - they don't give a r@ts @ss about your wellbeing, just your support.

Money is not the root of all evil - the love of money is.

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user_name
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Don't forget lower production volume...
In reply to Bajerunner, 5 months ago

This is not a smartphone at the projected sales numbers.

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BillyInya
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Re: Nikon DF, Why is the price so high?
In reply to jY h, 5 months ago

jY h wrote:

Hello, I'm the very happy owner of a Nikon D600 and have no plans of buying a new camera. However, the Nikon DF did catch My eye. I love the retro styling. Why is the price of this camera so high? Its sensor has lower resolution than the D600, it has no video capability, and no built in flash. Why would someone pay several hundred dollars more than a D600/610 and get less capability? I suppose it all due to the styling? Am I missing something?

I tend to agree with you.

My take on it is the camera exists (and marketed) on looks only. If the DF specs came out in a normal DSLR two years ago, even then we'd be thinking it's way behind the times.

In the looks department it would be hard to fond anyone not impressed. But these days few have money to burn and I feel the majority will take a step back and consider what they are actually getting in the way of usable features and specs.  IMO the DF falls well short in that department. Damn shame really.

I once read some eminent industry 'insider' was claiming the new DF was going to be the first Nikon Camera that offered a "back to Nikon sensor upgrade service" - where you can send your DF back and pay to have a 24MP or 36MP sensor fitted. He claimed it would be much ore financially rewarding to Nikon to do this rather than produce three different DF's.

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sshoihet
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Re: Nikon DF, Why is the price so high?
In reply to jY h, 5 months ago

jY h wrote:

Hello, I'm the very happy owner of a Nikon D600 and have no plans of buying a new camera. However, the Nikon DF did catch My eye. I love the retro styling. Why is the price of this camera so high? Its sensor has lower resolution than the D600, it has no video capability, and no built in flash. Why would someone pay several hundred dollars more than a D600/610 and get less capability? I suppose it all due to the styling? Am I missing something?

Prices are set by one major thing: how much a manufacturer thinks people will pay for a product which allows them to maximize profit. That in turn is usually affected by supply and demand.  How much it costs you to make a product has very little to do with how much you sell it for.

If you can't sell it for enough to hit your target profit margin, you either don't make it, go back to the drawing board to remove some costs or you decide that you're going to sell it at a reduced margin.

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joeyv
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Re: Yep
In reply to intruder61, 5 months ago

Ha-ha, really funny:-D

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marike6
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But it's not priced so high...
In reply to jY h, 5 months ago

But UK prices aside, the price of the Df is not all that high when you think about it. The D800 was priced at $2995 on release, a full $500 less than it's nearest competitor the Canon EOS 5D Mk III. Most people considered the D800 a steal compared to the competition and a great price for the first 36 mp FF DSLR. Then the D600 was released in the new category of "Entry Level" FF at $1995. But Nikon did such a good job not only with fair pricing, they made it quite feature rich with high specs like a 24 mp sensor, 100% VF, but with a less robust casing to cut costs.

Fast forward to the Df, which doesn't include video (of no importance to some, and a missing feature to others) but uses the remarkably sensitive 16 mp sensor from the top of the line D4. And the unlike the D600/D610 which uses more plastics, the Df has a stylish casing with more robust almost completely magnesium alloy shell with O-ring seals around every dial and button. And the Df made some improvements like an improved LiveView implementation, a new high tech bubble level, a sophisticated implementation of AI coupling and metering with even pre-AI lenses, and AF-ON button, etc. And Nikon priced the Df at $2745, between the price of the D600 and D800.

Expensive? In the US and regions other than the UK I'd argue not really. The reason? If we all agree that the D800 was offered at an extremely competitive price vs competitors, and that the D600 was offered at an unprecedented low-price for a FF for just under $2000, how can we then say the Nikon Df is too expensive?

You might say that compared to the D800 the Df at only $250 less is a bit on the high side. You also might reason that in relation to the D600/D610 the Df at $750 more is a bit on the high side. But if we agree that the D800 and D610 were both reasonably priced, I don't know how we can say that the Df judged on it's own merits is "too expensive".

R&D cost, the D4 sensor, an AF-ON button (one of the biggest missing features on the D600), improved LiveView implementation with new firmware, beautifully designed knurled metal exposure dials, "Made in Japan" build quality, AI coupling lever, improved VF with pro-style round eye cup, etc. the Df is a solid offering at a fair price.

Heck my X-Pro1 kit was over $2300 and it's an APS-C mirrorless. So no I don't consider a far nicer Df kit to be "priced too high". Especially considering how low the D800 and D600 were priced relative to the rest of the market.

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Rexgig0
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I hope it is the build quality!
In reply to jY h, 5 months ago

I hope the production models fulfill the promise of the images and videos I have seen. I have handled D800 and D600 cameras, and been rather disappointed, compared to the D300/D700-series and F6. The little Coolpix A seems to have been a step in the right direction, as its build quality is quite pleasing, to me. "Made in Japan" is probably part of that.

What I really wanted was a D4 sensor in a body sized more like the D800. It seems the Df is the best hope of fulfilling that wish. Whether it displaces a D800E as the top Nikon DSLR on my wish list remains to be seen; I await reviews, and the opportunity to handle one, as ergonomics cannot be judged by looking at images. Plus, that price point probably means a mid-2014 purchase, at the soonest, anyway.

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zakk9
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... have no plans of buying a new camera.
In reply to jY h, 5 months ago

jY h wrote:

Hello, I'm the very happy owner of a Nikon D600 and have no plans of buying a new camera. However, the Nikon DF did catch My eye. I love the retro styling. Why is the price of this camera so high? Its sensor has lower resolution than the D600, it has no video capability, and no built in flash. Why would someone pay several hundred dollars more than a D600/610 and get less capability? I suppose it all due to the styling? Am I missing something?

So what's your  worry?

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Josh152
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Re: Nikon DF, Why is the price so high?
In reply to jY h, 5 months ago

Simple.  Nikon probably doesn't expect to sell as many DFs as the other DSLRS.  A retro camera like the DF has a small niche market.

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Xhinzo
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Re: Nikon DF, Why is the price so high?
In reply to jY h, 5 months ago

This is my view. Let them do what they do and we will do what we do. Certainly you buy what you want/need. Its not like you have to buy this because Nikon made it. If no one buys it at that price then Nikon will have to lower the cost (or so I believe they would). If however enough people buy it at that price there will be no change.

As far as I am concerned its up to each individual to determine what their choice will be. Let Nikon know for Nikon (they pay people to determine these things) and let us know for us (I know what I want to buy, need to buy and can afford to buy).

Lets not worry about Nikon's choices. It sufficient for us to worry about our own.

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Fred Mueller
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I thought it was going to be higher !!
In reply to jY h, 5 months ago

ntntntntntntn

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Leonard Shepherd
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Re: is the price so high?
In reply to jY h, 5 months ago

The Nikon LIST price seems to be about 15% more than for the D700.

There is no point comparing the price of apples to oranges. The D700 is available at good street discounts and as yet the Df not.

If the Df prices settles at about 15% more than the D700 (pre D800 announcement) more MP, much better high ISO noise, greater dynamic range, f8 official AF ability and (for those who want it) pre AIS lens compatibility does not sound high to me.

So, D610 for "newbies to photography" who may never have shot film, Df for "golden oldies" with older AIS lenses, D800 for maximum resolution and D4 for maximum fps, seems a good all round range to me.

Digressing prices of pre second hand AIS lenses are not that high - yet

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Apollo18
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Re: Econ 101
In reply to Hulamike, 5 months ago

So, you're saying that the price is low because this is a niche camera with only limited demand? Doesn't sound right to me, with my limited knowledge of market forces.

I had thought it might be more to do with the type of buyer for camera of this kind, and the amount of disposable income a person like that might have.

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Re: is the price so high? Very fair
In reply to Leonard Shepherd, 5 months ago

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

The Nikon LIST price seems to be about 15% more than for the D700.

There is no point comparing the price of apples to oranges. The D700 is available at good street discounts and as yet the Df not.

If the Df prices settles at about 15% more than the D700 (pre D800 announcement) more MP, much better high ISO noise, greater dynamic range, f8 official AF ability and (for those who want it) pre AIS lens compatibility does not sound high to me.

So, D610 for "newbies to photography" who may never have shot film, Df for "golden oldies" with older AIS lenses, D800 for maximum resolution and D4 for maximum fps, seems a good all round range to me.

Digressing prices of pre second hand AIS lenses are not that high - yet

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Leonard Shepherd
Many problems turn out to be a lack of intimate knowledge as to how to get the best out of modern and often complex camera equipment.

That is true. Looking at it on Nikon rumours, made in Japan and the chassis specs, looking at it, if it is as hardy and tightly made as it LOOKS (and it looks just as tight as the older metal bodies), it is well worth it, considering specs and build.

Aside from your point above, the D700 used in Ex condition still goes for over 1,250, a 6 yr old camera., used.

So a list price as you say of 2,750 for such a recent offering, is not high. As you note, the D700 was going new for over 2,2,00 street price, before its discontinuance.

No doubt FF prices are coming down, but due to e specs on this, too much cost has gone into it to expect much less.

*IF* I could afford it, I would not have any qualms about buying either the D800 or the Df.

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CFynn
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The UK price is indefensible
In reply to IanYorke, 5 months ago

IanYorke wrote:

Price is determined by how much the gullible customer will pay. Here is relative price in UK:

D610 - £1,600

D800 - £1,800 (after cash back)

Df - £2,750 (with 50mm - no body only)

So £950 more than a D800 people have to decide if that is a good deal?

The UK price is indefensible.

Perhaps they expect to to sell a lot in London to wealthy Arabs. Russian oligarchs, and as Christmas stocking fillers for people in in the financial services industry?

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CFynn
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Re: Econ 101
In reply to Apollo18, 5 months ago

Apollo18 wrote:

So, you're saying that the price is low because this is a niche camera with only limited demand? Doesn't sound right to me, with my limited knowledge of market forces.

I had thought it might be more to do with the type of buyer for camera of this kind, and the amount of disposable income a person like that might have.

A camera aimed at well heeled enthusiasts.

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antoineb
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Well this is Nikon's marketing plan...
In reply to jY h, 5 months ago

jY h wrote:

Hello, I'm the very happy owner of a Nikon D600 and have no plans of buying a new camera. However, the Nikon DF did catch My eye. I love the retro styling. Why is the price of this camera so high? Its sensor has lower resolution than the D600, it has no video capability, and no built in flash. Why would someone pay several hundred dollars more than a D600/610 and get less capability? I suppose it all due to the styling? Am I missing something?

I think Nikon can be excused for thinking that there will be enough people out there who will love the physical controls (I love them) and not mind the size and weight (I do) and agree that the price is pretty good considering you are getting most of what makes a D4, for a much lower price.

I just hope these are not the same people in Nikon's marketing team, who were responsible for the appalling choice of price points (way too high) on the "1".  The "1" had its quirks, starting with horrible ergonomics on the early models, but it also had its qualities - it probably would have been a much more successful product if only Nikon had not priced it on par with mid-range DSLRs...

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John Motts
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Re: Nikon DF, Why is the price so high?
In reply to jY h, 5 months ago

It's at the beginning of its production run - the price is similar to that of the D800 when it first appeared and will almost certainly fall substantially.

It looks like it has a much better build quality than the medium quality build of the D600. It looks like it will be very much a premium product.

Oh, and don't judge a sensor on pure numbers.

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rhlpetrus
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Me too Re: I thought it was going to be higher !!
In reply to Fred Mueller, 5 months ago

Fred Mueller wrote:

ntntntntntntn

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kevinlee
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Re: Nikon DF, Why is the price so high?
In reply to jY h, 5 months ago

The prediction is that this is something of a niche product. Nikon would have priced it to recover development, marketing and distribution costs for a product with a limited market. How long it will stay at this level is difficult to predict. If the camera attracts a great deal of interest but insufficient sales Nikon may resort to a wider lens bundling to stimulate sales. If that doesn't work they may be forced into price distress to kick start it. In the short term I can't see Nikon pulling large chunks off the price early as this would reflect poorly on the product and erode its market positioning.

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