Fuji 23 1.4 vs. Sony A7 35 2.8

Started 10 months ago | Discussions
Red5TX
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Fuji 23 1.4 vs. Sony A7 35 2.8
10 months ago

A recent mini review of the Sony A7 had this to say about the 35mm f/2.8 lens:

The shallow depth of field on the 2.8 lens is dreamy. Getting a nice shallow depth of field in a camera this compact feels like cheating.

Would someone please introduce this man to the Fuji 23mm f/1.4? It's a whole stop dreamier!

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Al Valentino
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Re: Fuji 23 1.4 vs. Sony A7 35 2.8
In reply to Red5TX, 10 months ago

FF vs APS ~ 1 stop less DOF APS

f/2.8 vs f/1.4 = 2 stops less DOF

2 -1 = 1 stop shallower DOF in favor of Fuji wide open!!! In a smaller, more attractive system. Sorry Sony, no sale.

-- hide signature --

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Dave Luttmann
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Re: Fuji 23 1.4 vs. Sony A7 35 2.8
In reply to Al Valentino, 10 months ago

Al Valentino wrote:

FF vs APS ~ 1 stop less DOF APS

f/2.8 vs f/1.4 = 2 stops less DOF

2 -1 = 1 stop shallower DOF in favor of Fuji wide open!!! In a smaller, more attractive system. Sorry Sony, no sale.

-- hide signature --

Fuji XE1 w/14, 18-55, 55-200, Rokinon 8mm Fisheye & Tamron 90mm f/2.8 Macro

Agreed.  But a lot of FF fanboys ignore the basics.

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Red5TX
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Re: Fuji 23 1.4 vs. Sony A7 35 2.8
In reply to Dave Luttmann, 10 months ago

Dave Luttmann wrote:

Al Valentino wrote:

FF vs APS ~ 1 stop less DOF APS

f/2.8 vs f/1.4 = 2 stops less DOF

2 -1 = 1 stop shallower DOF in favor of Fuji wide open!!! In a smaller, more attractive system. Sorry Sony, no sale.

-- hide signature --

Fuji XE1 w/14, 18-55, 55-200, Rokinon 8mm Fisheye & Tamron 90mm f/2.8 Macro

Agreed. But a lot of FF fanboys ignore the basics.

Indeed, which was my point in calling the Fuji "a whole stop dreamier." Elsewhere on DPR, someone recently claimed that FF had a "2-3 stop advantage" in terms of noise and high ISO capability vs. APS-C. *facepalm*

I'm not sure they even hear themselves sometimes. Lots of FF users understand the marginal advantages of FF and feel it's important to their photography. Fair enough. I won't deny any man (or woman) their choice of gear if their eyes are wide open. But, as you note, lots of fanboys seem to think that the gulf between APS-C and FF is much larger than it really is. (This flows downstream, of course, w/r/t APS-C and m43.)

I am VERY curious to see if Sony can release genuinely fast primes for the A7/R without blowing up the size equation.  I suspect the answer is no.

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steven_k
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Re: Fuji 23 1.4 vs. Sony A7 35 2.8
In reply to Red5TX, 10 months ago

is. (This flows downstream, of c

I am VERY curious to see if Sony can release genuinely fast primes for the A7/R without blowing up the size equation. I suspect the answer is no.

I already know that answer no way, impossible. The only was is what they did with the RX1, where 1/3 of the lens is actually in the body. if the RX1 had a 1.4 lens, that too would also be to large

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hellocrowley
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Re: Fuji 23 1.4 vs. Sony A7 35 2.8
In reply to Red5TX, 10 months ago

Red5TX wrote:

A recent mini review of the Sony A7 had this to say about the 35mm f/2.8 lens:

The shallow depth of field on the 2.8 lens is dreamy. Getting a nice shallow depth of field in a camera this compact feels like cheating.

Would someone please introduce this man to the Fuji 23mm f/1.4? It's a whole stop dreamier!

The 23/1.4 is twice as big. Also if the bokeh is smooth, it does give a more separation effect than harsh bokeh, leading to an illusion of shallower DOF. The Sony can take advantage of tiny M-mount 35/1.4 for minimum DOF. I'm not saying which camera+lens combo is better of course, just stating some facts.

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DonSantos
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Re: Fuji 23 1.4 vs. Sony A7 35 2.8
In reply to Al Valentino, 10 months ago

FF vs APS ~ 1 stop less DOF APS

f/2.8 vs f/1.4 = 2 stops less DOF

2 -1 = 1 stop shallower DOF in favor of Fuji wide open!!! In a smaller, more attractive system. Sorry Sony, no sale.

-- hide signature --

Fuji XE1 w/14, 18-55, 55-200, Rokinon 8mm Fisheye & Tamron 90mm f/2.8 Macro

Typical advertised 1.4 lenses are really around 1.5-1.6.
There is a 1 1/3 stop advantage to ff.

So at most the fuji is around 1/2 to 2/3 stop faster.

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Red5TX
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Re: Fuji 23 1.4 vs. Sony A7 35 2.8
In reply to DonSantos, 10 months ago

DonSantos wrote:

FF vs APS ~ 1 stop less DOF APS

f/2.8 vs f/1.4 = 2 stops less DOF

2 -1 = 1 stop shallower DOF in favor of Fuji wide open!!! In a smaller, more attractive system. Sorry Sony, no sale.

-- hide signature --

Fuji XE1 w/14, 18-55, 55-200, Rokinon 8mm Fisheye & Tamron 90mm f/2.8 Macro

Typical advertised 1.4 lenses are really around 1.5-1.6.
There is a 1 1/3 stop advantage to ff.

So at most the fuji is around 1/2 to 2/3 stop faster.

Pure conjecture about the "actual" aperture of the Fuji lens.  Please provide a test or source demonstrating this to be true in this case.

If we take the crop factor of 1.5 and we multiply f/1.4 * 1.5, we get an equivalent aperture of f/2.1 for the Fuji lens.  That's pretty darn close to a full stop faster than the Sony.

It's still funny to hear this blogger marvel at what Sony has accomplished when the Fuji is, by either of our maths, better still.  Creamy bokeh and shallow DOF with a 35mm equiv on a small camera!  Incredible!

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viking79
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Re: Fuji 23 1.4 vs. Sony A7 35 2.8
In reply to Red5TX, 10 months ago

Red5TX wrote:

Dave Luttmann wrote:

Al Valentino wrote:

FF vs APS ~ 1 stop less DOF APS

f/2.8 vs f/1.4 = 2 stops less DOF

2 -1 = 1 stop shallower DOF in favor of Fuji wide open!!! In a smaller, more attractive system. Sorry Sony, no sale.

-- hide signature --

Fuji XE1 w/14, 18-55, 55-200, Rokinon 8mm Fisheye & Tamron 90mm f/2.8 Macro

Agreed. But a lot of FF fanboys ignore the basics.

Indeed, which was my point in calling the Fuji "a whole stop dreamier." Elsewhere on DPR, someone recently claimed that FF had a "2-3 stop advantage" in terms of noise and high ISO capability vs. APS-C. *facepalm*

I'm not sure they even hear themselves sometimes. Lots of FF users understand the marginal advantages of FF and feel it's important to their photography. Fair enough. I won't deny any man (or woman) their choice of gear if their eyes are wide open. But, as you note, lots of fanboys seem to think that the gulf between APS-C and FF is much larger than it really is. (This flows downstream, of course, w/r/t APS-C and m43.)

I am VERY curious to see if Sony can release genuinely fast primes for the A7/R without blowing up the size equation. I suspect the answer is no.

I have an A7 on order, but primarily for older prime SLR lenses and just for fun (and replace my A99), but I have a review Fuji X-A1 and I rented the 14mm f/2.8 and 12mm f/2.8 and wow, Fuji has stepped up their game with the new lenses.

The 14mm has the same super fast focus I am used to with some other mirrorless systems and the build quality is amazing.  The slider clutch is really smooth and sure makes manual focus a breeze.

My point is I am tempted to cancel the A7 and pick up the Fuji X-E2.  As you say, equivalent lenses right now are better, and I think the Sony is selling on impulse.  People will buy the Sony, then start realizing they have no lenses.  I wish the X-E2 had a flip screen though, as that is a big selling point for me.  I liked my X-Pro1, but never appreciated the optical viewfinder.  It made tons of noise (not loud, just annoying buzzes and whirs as it move optics around in the viewfinder, etc).

Eric

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viking79
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Re: Fuji 23 1.4 vs. Sony A7 35 2.8
In reply to DonSantos, 10 months ago

DonSantos wrote:

FF vs APS ~ 1 stop less DOF APS

f/2.8 vs f/1.4 = 2 stops less DOF

2 -1 = 1 stop shallower DOF in favor of Fuji wide open!!! In a smaller, more attractive system. Sorry Sony, no sale.

-- hide signature --

Fuji XE1 w/14, 18-55, 55-200, Rokinon 8mm Fisheye & Tamron 90mm f/2.8 Macro

Typical advertised 1.4 lenses are really around 1.5-1.6.
There is a 1 1/3 stop advantage to ff.

The Sony Zeiss has the same issue, maybe f/3.  Bottom line is the f/1.4 will probably drop off a bit more from sensor vignetting (microlenses don't work as well with large aperture lenses) in addition to transmission losses in the lens.

Bottom line is Sony Zeiss 35mm f/2.8 is pretty equivalent to the 24mm f/1.8 in their own mount, but the Fuji is going to be half stop larger effective aperture.

Given that the Zeiss is $800 and the Fuji 23mm f/1.4 $900, I think the 23mm is the better priced lens.

Eric

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Dave Luttmann
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Re: Fuji 23 1.4 vs. Sony A7 35 2.8
In reply to Red5TX, 10 months ago

I've used FF from the 1Ds and 1Ds2 to the D700 and D800.  I've compared hundreds of samples over the years.  It rarely makes any difference in output...unless one spends all there time shooting with slow glass at iso 12,000.

Red5TX wrote:

Dave Luttmann wrote:

Al Valentino wrote:

FF vs APS ~ 1 stop less DOF APS

f/2.8 vs f/1.4 = 2 stops less DOF

2 -1 = 1 stop shallower DOF in favor of Fuji wide open!!! In a smaller, more attractive system. Sorry Sony, no sale.

-- hide signature --

Fuji XE1 w/14, 18-55, 55-200, Rokinon 8mm Fisheye & Tamron 90mm f/2.8 Macro

Agreed. But a lot of FF fanboys ignore the basics.

Indeed, which was my point in calling the Fuji "a whole stop dreamier." Elsewhere on DPR, someone recently claimed that FF had a "2-3 stop advantage" in terms of noise and high ISO capability vs. APS-C. *facepalm*

I'm not sure they even hear themselves sometimes. Lots of FF users understand the marginal advantages of FF and feel it's important to their photography. Fair enough. I won't deny any man (or woman) their choice of gear if their eyes are wide open. But, as you note, lots of fanboys seem to think that the gulf between APS-C and FF is much larger than it really is. (This flows downstream, of course, w/r/t APS-C and m43.)

I am VERY curious to see if Sony can release genuinely fast primes for the A7/R without blowing up the size equation. I suspect the answer is no.

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57LowRider
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Re: Fuji 23 1.4 vs. Sony A7 35 2.8
In reply to Red5TX, 10 months ago

Oh yeh, I know that dreamy shallow DoF f2.8 lens... http://www.flickr.com/photos/95540165@N08/10725680203/

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rockygag
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Re: Fuji 23 1.4 vs. Sony A7 35 2.8
In reply to 57LowRider, 10 months ago

I have been avidly following the DF, and the A7r .....  Fuji is the digital FM!

almost never print bigger than 16X20, and besides a few extremely limited cases, have ever had issues with too little DOF control.

Better to spend money on glass than bodies, and Fuji is still the sweet spot for me.

On the other end, I would love to be able to get the subject isolation of a D4 + 400 F2.8 out of my M/43rds system, but physics is physics, and that will never happen.  I can live with a bit less in image impact for an order of magnitude less cost.

If only my Fuji would allow me to shoot swim meets and paintball events like the OM-D!

YMMV

Dave

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57LowRider
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Re: Fuji 23 1.4 vs. Sony A7 35 2.8
In reply to rockygag, 10 months ago

rockygag wrote:

Better to spend money on glass than bodies, and Fuji is still the sweet spot for me.

Very good point and I agree. I wonder if, in Fuji's planning, they measured all the pros and cons of body size / weight, lens size / weight, sensor size / resolution and so on, and then started designing the system around optimal values in all areas. It always feels as if it punches quite comfortably above its weight, greater than the sum of its parts.

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Re: Fuji 23 1.4 vs. Sony A7 35 2.8
In reply to Red5TX, 10 months ago

Red5TX wrote:

A recent mini review of the Sony A7 had this to say about the 35mm f/2.8 lens:

The shallow depth of field on the 2.8 lens is dreamy. Getting a nice shallow depth of field in a camera this compact feels like cheating.

Would someone please introduce this man to the Fuji 23mm f/1.4? It's a whole stop dreamier!

the reviewer said compact, the Fuji 23mm isn't compact, the A7 with the Zeiss 35mm is much more compact than the X-Pro1 plus the 23mm, plus it's full frame not APS-C

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