DPR GX7 review is up! Locked

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
This thread is locked.
Dan Wajnman
Regular MemberPosts: 401Gear list
Re: DPR GX7 review - viewfinder size
In reply to Andrew Butterfield, 11 months ago

The review describes the viewfinder as ”large and sharp” (in their conclusions).

This is contrary to my experience – it appears quite small. When viewed side by side with the E-M1 maybe like half its size. Even smaller when viewed in 4x3 format, but this is a different matter. This was my impression and it has been confirmed by many posts on this forum.

I’m not saying “too small”, this would depend on the user’s eyesight and preference, just that it looks small.

They also show a diagram comparing viewfinder sizes, which I believe, cannot be completely correct.

It is based on multiplying the sensor size by the magnification. EVF sensor, I hope, not the imaging sensor. But what are the EVF physical chip sizes?

The chip used in the GX7 must be smaller. The diagram does not look right to me.

 Dan Wajnman's gear list:Dan Wajnman's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8 +1 more
PaulChapman
Contributing MemberPosts: 930Gear list
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!
In reply to Andrew Butterfield, 11 months ago

Having used the GX7 pretty extensively now I would not say that there is an issue with the EVF. I will only use the back screen when bending down (old age issues kick in) and really like to shoot with the EVF folded up 90 degrees. EVF in portrait and into the sun can be a bit tricky but maybe that is me (don't wear Polaroids).

 PaulChapman's gear list:PaulChapman's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 Leica M9-P Leica M Typ 240 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Leica Summilux-M 21mm f/1.4 Asph +7 more
tgutgu
Senior MemberPosts: 3,282Gear list
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!
In reply to babalu, 11 months ago

babalu wrote:

Well I think that their critique of theviewfinder not being really usable in bright light conditions (light leaking in) is simply not reflecting the facts -it would rather perhaps point to a problem with the reviewer's own physical limitations concerning viewing through a VF. If any point of critique at all is merited, I'd have pointed out that the maximum viewing size should have not have been used for the 9:16 ratio, but for some other combination .

That are the usual excuses people write, when real world problems are reported about Panasonic view finders. The physical deficiencies of the user is the culprit. Why, then, there isn't such a problem with  the view finders from the competition? There must be something wrong with the design of Panasonic's view finders or with quality control. View finders should be unproblematic for most people and should be able to accommodate various characteristics of eye sight, unless these are extreme.

I think I have quite normal eye sight. I use weak glasses for reading, but that's it. The view finders, which I have used and still use are all adjustable for my needs and then no problems. Up to the GH2. But afterwards not ideal anymore.

-- hide signature --

Thomas

 tgutgu's gear list:tgutgu's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus E-PL7 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH +26 more
tgutgu
Senior MemberPosts: 3,282Gear list
Re: Elusive problems may or may not show up
In reply to boggis the cat, 11 months ago

boggis the cat wrote:

Niq wrote:

(and I would assume that the possibility of "shutter shock" is non existing with GX7, as DPR is pretty eager to test that, and didnt mention it...)

Some people have reported 'shutter shock' with the E-M1.

I'm not sure what to make of the phenomenon, really. It may be related to the shutter, or it may be an IS anomaly, but it definitely seems to be a problem for some people / cameras and not others.

So far, shutter shock has not been confirmed to be an issue with the E-M1. Just because someone isn't able to get sharp images with the E-M1, does not mean that the camera suffers generally from shutter shock.

-- hide signature --

Thomas

 tgutgu's gear list:tgutgu's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus E-PL7 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH +26 more
tgutgu
Senior MemberPosts: 3,282Gear list
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!
In reply to RickPick, 11 months ago

I don't know, why all the fuss about the silver award. The camera just did not make it to gold, and the view finder is one important reason for it. However, 79% does not mean that the GX7 is a bad camera!

Dpreview must make a cut somehow. To grant gold inflationary isn't a good think, because otherwise the gold award looses credibility. With such a view finder, a camera in this category simply should not get gold. The view finder is a central instrument of such a camera, so it deserves a high influence to the ranking.

Reviewing the gold awards, I think the GX7 fits very well in the scheme. It scored one point more than its competitor, the E-P5. Looks about right.

-- hide signature --

Thomas

 tgutgu's gear list:tgutgu's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus E-PL7 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH +26 more
Nemo0815
Forum MemberPosts: 91Gear list
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!
In reply to dpreviewreader, 11 months ago

GX7's built-in EVF is supposed to be its USP. But the following make it more a liability than an asset.

  • Strong 'rainbow' tearing effect in EVF
  • EVF is hard to see outdoors
  • adds bulk to camera

A score of of 79 is more than generous.

I think these points are mit really valid. The EVF is the Nest in the market, next to the VF4 probably but with even less delay and higher res.

Rainbow effect is almost not noticable and definately much less pronounced than on previous EVFs.

And bulk? Wth they are calling that big ugly thing on top of the M5 then?

 Nemo0815's gear list:Nemo0815's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1
Hen3ry
Senior MemberPosts: 9,843Gear list
It should have been several points higher with a gold award
In reply to Cipher, 11 months ago

What does Panasonic have to do? the GX7 is an outstanding camera. Don't come all this rubbish about EVF tearing during panning -- is that really a daily photographic problem? And as for the EVF not being glasses friendly -- my friends, I have been taking pix with eye level finders for 50 years, literally, and I have NEVER had a glasses-friendly finder. I have always had to work with glasses off and a custom adjustment lens in place (thank goodness for the diopter adjustments available today).

The images are as good as every comparison -- often better. It has the silent shutter, it has the built in flash (which is criticized as flimsy -- ALL such pop-ups are flimsy, but they are way better than nothing!), it has terrific ergonomics, it has …

As for the criticism of the IBIS, that it might not be as good as Oly's 5 way which is so handy for using legacy lenses or other non-OIS lenses -- come off the grass! Few people use legacy lenses for starters, and photography has been happening for well over a century without IBIS. And in any case, let's see a real comparison between the two IBISes (I expect the Oly IBIS is better, but for mine, it is a catch-up on the always excellent Panny OIS).

Well, actually the GX7 does NOT have a fully articulated screen which has been so much a feature of Panasonic m43 cams and is one of the important reasons I will NOT be buying it. I will buy a Panny G6 and I will be using Panny zooms with the excellent OIS.

But I still think the GX7 is well worth a gold award and should, in fact, be rated more highly than some of its gold award opposition.

And where, oh where is the full review of the G6?

Cheers, geoff

-- hide signature --

Geoffrey Heard
Down and out in Rabaul in the South Pacific
http://pngtimetraveller.blogspot.com/2011/10/return-to-karai-komana_31.html

 Hen3ry's gear list:Hen3ry's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8 Panasonic 12-35mm F2.8 +4 more
RickPick
Contributing MemberPosts: 888Gear list
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!
In reply to tgutgu, 11 months ago

tgutgu wrote:

I don't know, why all the fuss about the silver award. The camera just did not make it to gold, and the view finder is one important reason for it. However, 79% does not mean that the GX7 is a bad camera!

Dpreview must make a cut somehow. To grant gold inflationary isn't a good think, because otherwise the gold award looses credibility. With such a view finder, a camera in this category simply should not get gold. The view finder is a central instrument of such a camera, so it deserves a high influence to the ranking.

Reviewing the gold awards, I think the GX7 fits very well in the scheme. It scored one point more than its competitor, the E-P5. Looks about right.

-- hide signature --

Thomas

Hi Thomas, I agree with your points about the gold award, but in my own experience the EVF is very good. Have you tried one?

Rick

 RickPick's gear list:RickPick's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 Olympus PEN E-P1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS +4 more
Nemo0815
Forum MemberPosts: 91Gear list
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!
In reply to RickPick, 11 months ago

tgutgu wrote:

I don't know, why all the fuss about the silver award. The camera just did not make it to gold, and the view finder is one important reason for it. However, 79% does not mean that the GX7 is a bad camera!

Dpreview must make a cut somehow. To grant gold inflationary isn't a good think, because otherwise the gold award looses credibility. With such a view finder, a camera in this category simply should not get gold. The view finder is a central instrument of such a camera, so it deserves a high influence to the ranking.

Reviewing the gold awards, I think the GX7 fits very well in the scheme. It scored one point more than its competitor, the E-P5. Looks about right.

-- hide signature --

Thomas

Hi Thomas, I agree with your points about the gold award, but in my own experience the EVF is very good. Have you tried one?

Rick

No, he hasn't. He's just argueing the same (wrong) things over and over again.

 Nemo0815's gear list:Nemo0815's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1
Jorginho
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,330Gear list
My (premature) take: strange result
In reply to Cipher, 11 months ago

But it is premature, because I did not read everything. So I mght be off here.

Still:
- So an EVF has a downside: it adds bulk. Now of course this is true for every single cam out there. So it is alsways a downside. You might as well say in every DSLR test: the mirrorbox adds bulk...And in that case, there is no obvious advantage anymore. I looked up the Fuji X100s....it has an EVF. It looks very similar to the GX7...no mention of the downside of that bulky EVF in there...

- Apparantly the videoscore is identical to the EP5 and EM1. ????? That is absurd. There is no compenation for IBIS with such mediocre video. I have the EPL5 which has the same video IQ and the GH2, which has worse video IQ than GX7. EPL5 vs GH2: night and day difference.

- So a cam with built in tiltable EVF, a built in silentshutter, better ergonomics, much better video, similar IQ, better AF (-4 eV, that does matter but is not tested it seems!) scores just 1 point better that a cam that lacks these features and costs the same (without the EVF). What does the EPl5 bring to the table? 5 axis IBIS. But also: shuttershock which cannot be prevented unless you introduce a 1/8 s delay (very nice for action..). Panny elec shutter does not have shuttershock problems with its e-shutter.

Really beyond me.

 Jorginho's gear list:Jorginho's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Olympus PEN E-PL5 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS +9 more
boggis the cat
Veteran MemberPosts: 6,292Gear list
Re: Elusive problems may or may not show up
In reply to tgutgu, 11 months ago

tgutgu wrote:

boggis the cat wrote:

Niq wrote:

(and I would assume that the possibility of "shutter shock" is non existing with GX7, as DPR is pretty eager to test that, and didnt mention it...)

Some people have reported 'shutter shock' with the E-M1.

I'm not sure what to make of the phenomenon, really. It may be related to the shutter, or it may be an IS anomaly, but it definitely seems to be a problem for some people / cameras and not others.

So far, shutter shock has not been confirmed to be an issue with the E-M1. Just because someone isn't able to get sharp images with the E-M1, does not mean that the camera suffers generally from shutter shock.

Yes, of course that is true.  My point was that you cannot be sure that no GX7 (or any other camera) won't have an issue that will be described as 'shutter shock'.

My view is that these issues are most likely IBIS-related in some way, and so the GX7 -- with IBIS -- may be susceptible.

 boggis the cat's gear list:boggis the cat's gear list
Olympus E-5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 12-60mm 1:2.8-4.0 SWD Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 50-200mm 1:2.8-3.5 SWD Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 +7 more
Jorginho
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,330Gear list
My fuss is about double standards.
In reply to tgutgu, 11 months ago

- When an EVF is a negative as it adds weight, one would expect that all camera's with such an EVF would be noted for that downside. I looked up the X100S: no mention of EVF being negative.

Another thing: X100s gets a gold award. When I look at the list of cons that is a very long list. The video is crappy, there seem to be moire issues,

- Its video is much better than EP5/EM1s, yet it is scored the same...

Gold silver...I don't care. I know it is subjective, but I do like that similar camera's get treate dand rated in a similar way.

 Jorginho's gear list:Jorginho's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Olympus PEN E-PL5 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS +9 more
babalu
Regular MemberPosts: 301
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!
In reply to Cipher, 11 months ago

The review by DPR of the GX7 leaves me with a shallow taste , as if DPR was looking for reasons to downsize the merits of the camera .

MikeInRomsey
Regular MemberPosts: 292Gear list
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!
In reply to dpreviewreader, 11 months ago

When i first considered the GX7 I was concerned about the 'tearing' issue of the EVF. I tried it in the shop and have not experienced rainbow tearing at all in 2 weeks usage. Other reviews say the same. The data rate on the GX7 is increased from the G5/G6 EVFs so this should lessen the effect. Some people seem to notice the effect more than others so if you are concerned go and try it out for yourself.

I find the statement that it cannot be used outdoors to be nothing short of absurd.

And as for 'adds bulk to camera' of course it does, but not nearly so much as the VF4 perched precariously on top of the Olympus EP-5.

This review and scoring does not appear to be very objective to me.

 MikeInRomsey's gear list:MikeInRomsey's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-42mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-140mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH. / Power O.I.S Panasonic 20mm F1.7 II
Nemo0815
Forum MemberPosts: 91Gear list
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!
In reply to babalu, 11 months ago

The review by DPR of the GX7 leaves me with a shallow taste , as if DPR was looking for reasons to downsize the merits of the camera .

That's how it reads indeed.

And btw. Shutter shock has been confirmed, for M5 long ago and for the M1 just recently here and on other Forums.
Still some people keep denying it trying to defend their own toy by all means.

 Nemo0815's gear list:Nemo0815's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1
mp3lp
Regular MemberPosts: 102
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!
In reply to Nemo0815, 11 months ago

I'm considering getting a GX7 and retiring my current Oly E30 setup. I'm a little puzzled by the viewfinder comparison in the DPreview review of the GX7.

The GX7 viewfinder is 16:9 aspect ratio and 4:3 images are shown cropped, i.e. the image shown is smaller than the full size of the viewfinder and are shown with black bars either side of the image.  The viewfinder comparison in the DPreview review doesn't show this.

Having handled the camera at a London camera store, I thought that the size of the 4:3 image in the viewfinder of the GX7 was OK, not as good as the image in the Olympus VF4, but good enough.

That said, I would still like to know how the viewfinder image compares to other cameras.  Can anyone who's got the GX7 comment.

Many thanks.

Advent1sam
Senior MemberPosts: 1,277
Re:Modified to Gold Star Award
In reply to Cipher, 11 months ago

LOL, how can we take you serious DPR?

EVF adds bulk, LOL, the whole cam weighs 400g!

Best in class video, 24p,25p,50p, oh but has no IBIS for video, seriously, do Nikon, do Canon? I have an EM-5 and the IBIS is great for video hand-held but overall who gives a dam!

Seriously DPR, this is one of those times when you appear to have got it very wrong.

GeorgianBay1939
Senior MemberPosts: 2,365Gear list
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!
In reply to mp3lp, 11 months ago

mp3lp wrote:

I'm considering getting a GX7 and retiring my current Oly E30 setup. I'm a little puzzled by the viewfinder comparison in the DPreview review of the GX7.

The GX7 viewfinder is 16:9 aspect ratio and 4:3 images are shown cropped, i.e. the image shown is smaller than the full size of the viewfinder and are shown with black bars either side of the image. The viewfinder comparison in the DPreview review doesn't show this.

Having handled the camera at a London camera store, I thought that the size of the 4:3 image in the viewfinder of the GX7 was OK, not as good as the image in the Olympus VF4, but good enough.

That said, I would still like to know how the viewfinder image compares to other cameras. Can anyone who's got the GX7 comment.

Many thanks.

I've had the GX7 for about a month, couple k of images. Didn't use the camera until I had a full battery charge. Updated the software.

Also use the GH2.

Here is a report of my experiences with the GX7 c/w issues and their resolution and lots of pix (of varying quality):

GX7 First Light

Regarding the EVF:

I wear low-correction glasses and find the GX7 EVF nicer than my GH2. The only time I get light leakage is when framing up-sun where I either remove my glasses or "light seal" with my left hand. The EVF image size is no problem and I don't get tearing unless I force it. Admittedly I have my 100-300mm on my GH2 for wildlife opportunities so don't swing the GX7 around much.

I have tried the GH3 EVF in a camera store and MUCH PREFER the GX7 EVF.

No battery issues. But after reading Chapman, I've ordered a pair of spares.

Also no highlight clipping shooting A,S, M modes, RAW, ETTR, Constant Preview ON, all metering methods, as I sorta calibrated my Liveview histogram using the post-exposure RGBY channel histogram.   I used RawDigger quite a bit initially to get a good feel for the histograms.  I suspect that I'll be doing more calibration when shooting up-sun in the snow this winter.

I never thought that I would end up preferring GX7 to the GH2 .... but I pick up the GX7 preferentially now.

However, I am used to folding the LCD inwards on the GX7 when not in use.  It would be VERY nice to be able to do that with the GX7 ...  and to use a swivel LCD in portrait mode and when contorting.

I hope that this helps.  Have fun.

Tom

 GeorgianBay1939's gear list:GeorgianBay1939's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ1000 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH +7 more
babalu
Regular MemberPosts: 301
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!
In reply to mp3lp, 11 months ago

mp3lp wrote:

I'm considering getting a GX7 and retiring my current Oly E30 setup. I'm a little puzzled by the viewfinder comparison in the DPreview review of the GX7.

The GX7 viewfinder is 16:9 aspect ratio and 4:3 images are shown cropped, i.e. the image shown is smaller than the full size of the viewfinder and are shown with black bars either side of the image. The viewfinder comparison in the DPreview review doesn't show this.

Having handled the camera at a London camera store, I thought that the size of the 4:3 image in the viewfinder of the GX7 was OK, not as good as the image in the Olympus VF4, but good enough.

That said, I would still like to know how the viewfinder image compares to other cameras. Can anyone who's got the GX7 comment.

Many thanks.

Indeed, one of the (very very few) valid points of critique -which by the way I did not see in the DPR review- is that the viewfinder is actually made to depict 9:16 , i.e video mode in full size, while leaving 4:3 as second best . It still is larger than for example one of the leading APS/C , Nikon D7100, but no match to E-M1 .

Gregm61
Forum ProPosts: 13,910Gear list
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!
In reply to Cipher, 11 months ago

Is there really no ability to choose a setting in the GX7 that will turn on in-camera IBIS on the half-press of the shutter release? IBIS on the half-press in the E-M5 is not enabled by default and you have to turn it on in the menu system. Once on, the half-press of the release with the E-M5 makes even viewing through the finder with a 75-300 zoomed to 300mm very steady. It's hard to imagine Panasonic not offering that ability in the GX7.

-- hide signature --

"There's shadows in life, baby.." Jack Horner- Boogie Nights

 Gregm61's gear list:Gregm61's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M5 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Olympus E-M1 Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 50mm 1:2.0 Macro Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 70-300mm 1:4.0-5.6 +10 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads