K01, who is "ugly" now?

Started Oct 26, 2013 | Discussions
ET2
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Re: K01, who is "ugly" now?
In reply to Petroglyph, Oct 26, 2013

Petroglyph wrote:

Jim in Hudson wrote:

ET2 wrote:

audiobomber wrote:

This isn't even close

Was the last line accidentally truncated? Seems it should have ended with "... in price".

I give Sony credit for trying something different here. When it comes to weight and dimension, though, the practical figures should include the adapter as well until there's a robust native lens lineup. The other issue around dimension relates back to the low shot life. I don't know how many "pros" will buy the A7 but most will find it necessary to include the grip just to get the shot life up to a D800/E.

Yikes! CIPA 320 shots on a charge. That means about 200 in practice with everything else going on and the LCD turning on/off and powering up the EVF and going in and out of standby.

No, this could mean anywhere between 300 to 1000 in practice. If someone shoots continuous burst mode, that will go way over 1000

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ET2
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Re: K01, who is "ugly" now?
In reply to Petroglyph, Oct 26, 2013

Petroglyph wrote:

Noisy shutter can be very distracting in a lot of situations and I noticed DPR has said the shutter is rather loud on the Sony.

It's not if as Pentax makes DSLRs with totally silent shutter. That would  require electronic shutter

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Petroglyph
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Re: K01, who is "ugly" now?
In reply to ET2, Oct 26, 2013

ET2 wrote:

Petroglyph wrote:

Jim in Hudson wrote:

ET2 wrote:

audiobomber wrote:

This isn't even close

Was the last line accidentally truncated? Seems it should have ended with "... in price".

I give Sony credit for trying something different here. When it comes to weight and dimension, though, the practical figures should include the adapter as well until there's a robust native lens lineup. The other issue around dimension relates back to the low shot life. I don't know how many "pros" will buy the A7 but most will find it necessary to include the grip just to get the shot life up to a D800/E.

Yikes! CIPA 320 shots on a charge. That means about 200 in practice with everything else going on and the LCD turning on/off and powering up the EVF and going in and out of standby.

No, this could mean anywhere between 300 to 1000 in practice. If someone shoots continuous burst mode, that will go way over 1000

In my own experience with lithium ion batteries (and EVFs ) after a few charge deplete cycles one doesn't get anywhere near CIPA per charge.  More like 1/2 rated.  One time when I was out with the company Canon FF it got 1200 shots (rated CIPA 1090) but that was on a relatively new battery and I was in hyper click mode and it has a top panel to look at not the LCD like the Sony.

Cheers.

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ET2
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Re: K01, who is "ugly" now?
In reply to Jim in Hudson, Oct 26, 2013

Jim in Hudson wrote:

I give Sony credit for trying something different here. When it comes to weight and dimension, though, the practical figures should include the adapter as well until there's a robust native lens lineup.

That depends on the shooting style. If someone is just happy with 35mm or 50mm, A7 would remain smaller. I don't think there is size difference even with kit zoom lenses (18-55mm, vs 28-75mm)

Not every one is walking round with a dozen lenses in the bag

The other issue around dimension relates back to the low shot life.

K01 despite larger battery (and no EVF, no wifi, or NFC)  is rated 500 shots. It's not that big of difference than A7R's 330 shots.

By the way, Nex-F3, that directly competes in price and feature (no wifi, no NFC) is rated at 480, despite being tiny in comparison to K01.

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viking79
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Re: K01, who is "ugly" now?
In reply to Petroglyph, Oct 26, 2013

Petroglyph wrote:

They actually do look similar. I never think about how a camera looks. I just think about the ergonomics. I don't want the camera to draw any attention to itself while I'm using it, either by the sounds it makes or the colour it is. Noisy shutter can be very distracting in a lot of situations and I noticed DPR has said the shutter is rather loud on the Sony.

Cheers.

I always thought my D700 was much too loud, but never had complaints at weddings about it.  My K-5 was silent in comparison.  I don't think the A7/r could be any worse than the D700.

Looking at a couple quick videos of the Sony A7 and D700 the D700 seems much louder.

Eric

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ET2
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Re: K01, who is "ugly" now?
In reply to Petroglyph, Oct 26, 2013

Petroglyph wrote:

ET2 wrote:

Petroglyph wrote:

Jim in Hudson wrote:

ET2 wrote:

audiobomber wrote:

This isn't even close

Was the last line accidentally truncated? Seems it should have ended with "... in price".

I give Sony credit for trying something different here. When it comes to weight and dimension, though, the practical figures should include the adapter as well until there's a robust native lens lineup. The other issue around dimension relates back to the low shot life. I don't know how many "pros" will buy the A7 but most will find it necessary to include the grip just to get the shot life up to a D800/E.

Yikes! CIPA 320 shots on a charge. That means about 200 in practice with everything else going on and the LCD turning on/off and powering up the EVF and going in and out of standby.

No, this could mean anywhere between 300 to 1000 in practice. If someone shoots continuous burst mode, that will go way over 1000

In my own experience with lithium ion batteries (and EVFs ) after a few charge deplete cycles one doesn't get anywhere near CIPA per charge. More like 1/2 rated.

That's a news to me, as I have totally different experience. K-5 CIPA rating is 740 per shots, so are you telling me that you are now getting  only 370 shots on your K-5?

No wonder your expectation with battery life are as low after being Pentax user

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Petroglyph
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Re: K01, who is "ugly" now?
In reply to ET2, Oct 26, 2013

ET2 wrote:

Petroglyph wrote:

ET2 wrote:

Petroglyph wrote:

Jim in Hudson wrote:

ET2 wrote:

audiobomber wrote:

This isn't even close

Was the last line accidentally truncated? Seems it should have ended with "... in price".

I give Sony credit for trying something different here. When it comes to weight and dimension, though, the practical figures should include the adapter as well until there's a robust native lens lineup. The other issue around dimension relates back to the low shot life. I don't know how many "pros" will buy the A7 but most will find it necessary to include the grip just to get the shot life up to a D800/E.

Yikes! CIPA 320 shots on a charge. That means about 200 in practice with everything else going on and the LCD turning on/off and powering up the EVF and going in and out of standby.

No, this could mean anywhere between 300 to 1000 in practice. If someone shoots continuous burst mode, that will go way over 1000

In my own experience with lithium ion batteries (and EVFs ) after a few charge deplete cycles one doesn't get anywhere near CIPA per charge. More like 1/2 rated.

That's a news to me, as I have totally different experience. K-5 CIPA rating is 740 per shots, so are you telling me that you are now getting only 370 shots on your K-5?

No it has a top panel and OVF so not the same drain on the batt.  I'll have to pay attention next time out to see what I do get.  Just a guess around 600 but I could be wrong there the battery is over two years now.

Cheers.

No wonder your expectation with battery life are as low after being Pentax user

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moji
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Re: K01, who is "ugly" now?
In reply to pedroboe100, Oct 26, 2013

The K01 is not directly handsom but here it is very nice indeed. The A7 looks like old Practikas from DDR!

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Bananasplit
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Re: K01, who is "ugly" now?
In reply to moji, Oct 26, 2013

K01 is so ugly and useless that even its manufacturer recognized the fact.

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il_alexk
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K-01 design sucks - oficially confirmed by Pentax
In reply to pedroboe100, Oct 26, 2013
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dual12
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Re: K01, who is "ugly" now?
In reply to Bananasplit, Oct 26, 2013

Not at all useless.  I have two of them and use them every time I shoot on a tripod, which is nearly always.

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Jim in Hudson
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Re: K01, who is "ugly" now?
In reply to ET2, Oct 26, 2013

ET2 wrote:

Jim in Hudson wrote:

I give Sony credit for trying something different here. When it comes to weight and dimension, though, the practical figures should include the adapter as well until there's a robust native lens lineup.

That depends on the shooting style. If someone is just happy with 35mm or 50mm, A7 would remain smaller. I don't think there is size difference even with kit zoom lenses (18-55mm, vs 28-75mm)

Not every one is walking round with a dozen lenses in the bag

The other issue around dimension relates back to the low shot life.

K01 despite larger battery (and no EVF, no wifi, or NFC) is rated 500 shots. It's not that big of difference than A7R's 330 shots.

By the way, Nex-F3, that directly competes in price and feature (no wifi, no NFC) is rated at 480, despite being tiny in comparison to K01.

Nothing competes with the K-01... it's not made anymore.

My point was the A7(r) competes with the D800 for practical purposes. The assertion that it's much smaller than the Nikon doesn't really hold up if you include the grip to bring the shot life up to the Nikon's level. Is a pro going to use the Sony as is with a 340 shot life? Almost certainly most pros would only use it with the battery grip.

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audiobomber
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Re: K01, who is "ugly" now?
In reply to ET2, Oct 26, 2013

ET2 wrote:

No wonder your expectation with battery life are as low after being Pentax user

Interesting that you've never used a Pentax, but you're always on this board, pimping Sony. Rather pathetic, IMO.

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Dan

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yudi
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Re: K01, who is "ugly" now?
In reply to pedroboe100, Oct 26, 2013

K01 is not ugly. Its simplicity in body look and style is pretty. However, ..., well, I don;t need to say more about it, if I have an example to show:

http://www.dpreview.com/products/Panasonic/slrs/panasonic_dmcgx7

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Donny out of Element here
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Re: K01, who is "ugly" now?
In reply to DAVID MANZE, Oct 27, 2013

DAVID MANZE wrote:

Hi,

I do not think the Sony is at all ugly, they have put together a FF camera in a small package with a viewfinder that has a slim body that can take a bunch of adapters which means a huge range of lenses all at a price that undercuts all FF DSLRs, to me it's a masterstroke! In fact it's all the things that Pentax would have liked to have been able to do with the K01 but couldn't.

Who is ugly now? well it's still the K01.

PS. I'm a happy K01 owner, but a realist!

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Dave's clichés

LOL That was awesome, but true! Sony A7/r rules.

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moji
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Re: K01, who is "ugly" now?
In reply to Bananasplit, Oct 27, 2013

About beauty and ugliness, I only trust my own sense, not any authority. BTW, how do you know that the manufacture says it is ugly? Did you buy that cheap gossip?

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If they wanted to keep K-mount for mirrorless . . .
In reply to pedroboe100, Oct 27, 2013

. . . they were locked into a specific front-to-back dimension. The design grew from that start point.   I think they did a good job, given that primary consideration (K-mount is very helpful if you want to use a SMC-A 28mm f2.0).   Retaining the robust D-LI90 battery was also good, rotating it 90 degrees from how it dropped into K-7/5; that's why a bulky grip went away, and I think that too was good.  They did something weird to the flash programming, giving it a "manual flash" setting as opposed to "flash on" like all their other DSLR's.  That's the only thing I have not gotten used to.

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marike6
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Agree...
In reply to pedroboe100, Oct 27, 2013

I have to agree that the A7 is not a very nice design.  The hard edges of the prism just look weird. The shape of the prism might work in Cairo, but it looks strange on the A7.

It might be a nice camera and the body prices are reasonable.  But the prices for the lenses are extremely high even for FF lenses.  In the US, 800 USD for a Sony 35 f/2.8 and 1000 USD for a 55 f/1.8. Yikes.  I can't even think of a modest f/2.8 prime like the 35mm Sony that is close to $1000 in any other brands.

At least on a Nikon or Canon FF you can mount a $200 50 f/1.8 with terrific optics.  1000 USD for a 55 f/1.8 normal lens???  Yikes.

Camera aesthetics don't have any relevance to IQ or handling, but for many they do factor into pride of ownership.

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citrontokyo
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Re: K01, who is "ugly" now?
In reply to pedroboe100, Oct 27, 2013

If someone walked up to me on the street and offered me either one of these cameras for free, no question, I'd take the Sony on looks alone. 

I supported the k-01 against all of the backlash when it first came out (check my history) but there's no denying it's uglier than the Sony, to my mind.

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sportyaccordy
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Re: K01, who is "ugly" now?
In reply to pedroboe100, Oct 27, 2013

I said it before and I'll say it again. K-01 failed because of execution, not the idea. Many of its problems have been overcome:

  • Thinner grip- NEX has it
  • Fast on sensor autofocus- 60D has it
  • Usable EVF/LED- everyone has it

A7 is cool but I still think the companies with mega lens collections (i.e. CaNikon) would stand to gain by making native lens mirrorless cameras. A FF F-mount mirrorless camera would SLAUGHTER the mirrorless market (of course, for the right price), especially with the screw drive.

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