NSA even intecepted Merkel's private mobile phone!

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RobertSigmund
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Re: They learned she was ordering male prostitutes from an escort service
In reply to kixigvaq, 9 months ago

kixigvaq wrote:

Just joking. But it would be funny if they had tapes or her saying "Send up a man who is tall, muscular, and not too pretty. I feel like some rough sex tonight!"

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Many men would do it for free!

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René Schuster
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Re: NSA even intecepted Merkel's private mobile phone!
In reply to peevee1, 9 months ago

peevee1 wrote:

Werderano wrote:

Yes you americans are standing about every law,

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying.

"Above" is what he meant to say, not "about". In German it would be the same word "über", no matter if it is in "talking über" (about) or "standing über" (above).

RS

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Werderano
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Re: This is unquestionably Not Good
In reply to TrapperJohn, 9 months ago

Good to read, but don´t forget Bush and be aware that maybe some more are coming.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/24/nsa-surveillance-world-leaders-calls

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LeRentier
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Re: NSA even intecepted Merkel's private mobile phone!
In reply to peevee1, 9 months ago

peevee1 wrote:

LeRentier wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

RobertSigmund wrote:

Werderano wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

RobertSigmund wrote:

All the time she tried to play down the affair, but this goes too far. Now she is outraged and complained with Obama.

I have to repeat: Obama apparently has no sense for what is right and what is wrong. For a lawyer, I find this really strange.

Honestly - spying on leaders of foreign countries is their job. And it is rich expecting privacy when taking public political position.

Spying on our own citizens without a warrant obtained with some reasonable suspicion of a crime is a totally different issue - a crime by itself.

So braking international law is not criminal?

It is.

Really? Cannot find "breaking international law" anywhere in our criminal code:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I

You know, professional killers also "only do their job".

You know, professional killers are also necessary (would be great if somebody would take out Hitler in 1933 for example), but at least murder is clearly a crime in criminal codes of all countries.

Next you will say that your constitution says nothing which would make the NSA's spying illegal, as long as it happens outside Brooklyn ?

Again - spying outside of US is legal, spying inside of US without probable cause is illegal according to 4th Amendment of US Constitution and supporting laws and Supreme Court decisions. The problem is that they do the second, not the first (we hired them to do the first after all).

And make no mistake, you French also have spies. You would be complete fools not to, and you are not complete fools - at least heat in your homes is not completely in the hands of Putin and your energy is your own from one of the best nuclear industries in the world and the fools east of you even have to buy some from you.

It is amusing that for you, and so any others, legality hinges around US law only, legislation in other countries means absolutely nothing to you and that, my friend, has been becoming a concern which will bite you.

. . . _ _ _ . . .
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Werderano
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Re: NSA even intecepted Merkel's private mobile phone!
In reply to René Schuster, 9 months ago

René Schuster wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

Werderano wrote:

Yes you americans are standing about every law,

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying.

"Above" is what he meant to say, not "about". In German it would be the same word "über", no matter if it is in "talking über" (about) or "standing über" (above).

RS

Where did i had my head?  Thank you, again.

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peevee1
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Re: In puncto Schröder we agree
In reply to Werderano, 9 months ago

Werderano wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

RobertSigmund wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

By the way, somebody has to watch politicians because they tend to behave very badly when not watched closely, and internal secret services cannot do it because they can be ordered not to.

For example, when your previous KeiserChancellor Schröder was destroying German nuclear energy industry and selling off Baltic so Putin/Gazprom could hold Germany by the balls forever, somebody should have caught HIM by the balls first (certainly not BND or MAD or BfV). And guess what, who Schröder works OPENLY now, finally receiving his "30 pieces of silver"?

There were quite a few chaps hanged after the Nuremberg trials who where less guilty than him. About the Gazprom deal I do not know a lot, but he is the one who destroyed the German Social State.

I don't know about your Social state, but the fact that Schröder was a Russian agent was pretty obvious even then before he went ahead and started receiving official salary from them. Now you are all paying tribute to Putin/Gazprom, and your children will be paying, and probably their children too.

I wouldn't be terribly surprised to hear that he was recruited in Soviet times by KGB, SVR or Stazi and is a general (or enjoys the similar status) of SVR or KGB (or how it is called today) now after the huge successes like these. I actually would be MORE surprised if SVR managed to recruit him in the 90s.

A lot of speculation i would guess. ,-)

More like educated guess. There is no other more probable explanation for what he did.

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peevee1
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Re: They learned she was ordering male prostitutes from an escort service
In reply to kixigvaq, 9 months ago

kixigvaq wrote:

Just joking. But it would be funny if they had tapes or her saying "Send up a man who is tall, muscular, and not too pretty. I feel like some rough sex tonight!"

-- hide signature --

Abyssus abyssum invocat

If Russians or Chinese can have something on her which can change her actions, we (and German citizens first) should have the same on her too to understand her actions under pressure from adversaries and help to prevent them if necessary.

Seems some children of flowers here who don't understand how the world works at all.

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RobertSigmund
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Re: They learned she was ordering male prostitutes from an escort service
In reply to peevee1, 9 months ago

peevee1 wrote:

kixigvaq wrote:

Just joking. But it would be funny if they had tapes or her saying "Send up a man who is tall, muscular, and not too pretty. I feel like some rough sex tonight!"

-- hide signature --

Abyssus abyssum invocat

If Russians or Chinese can have something on her which can change her actions, we (and German citizens first) should have the same on her too to understand her actions under pressure from adversaries and help to prevent them if necessary.

Seems some children of flowers here who don't understand how the world works at all.

Seems most Germans and most German politicians are children of flowers, because the indignation about the NSA behaviour is nearly 100 %.

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Werderano
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Re: In puncto Schröder we agree
In reply to peevee1, 9 months ago

peevee1 wrote:

Werderano wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

RobertSigmund wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

By the way, somebody has to watch politicians because they tend to behave very badly when not watched closely, and internal secret services cannot do it because they can be ordered not to.

For example, when your previous KeiserChancellor Schröder was destroying German nuclear energy industry and selling off Baltic so Putin/Gazprom could hold Germany by the balls forever, somebody should have caught HIM by the balls first (certainly not BND or MAD or BfV). And guess what, who Schröder works OPENLY now, finally receiving his "30 pieces of silver"?

There were quite a few chaps hanged after the Nuremberg trials who where less guilty than him. About the Gazprom deal I do not know a lot, but he is the one who destroyed the German Social State.

I don't know about your Social state, but the fact that Schröder was a Russian agent was pretty obvious even then before he went ahead and started receiving official salary from them. Now you are all paying tribute to Putin/Gazprom, and your children will be paying, and probably their children too.

I wouldn't be terribly surprised to hear that he was recruited in Soviet times by KGB, SVR or Stazi and is a general (or enjoys the similar status) of SVR or KGB (or how it is called today) now after the huge successes like these. I actually would be MORE surprised if SVR managed to recruit him in the 90s.

A lot of speculation i would guess. ,-)

More like educated guess. There is no other more probable explanation for what he did.

Ok, again i share one guess with you that it is possible that Schröder got his job because he was helpful in this one deal. So far so bad, this doesn´t change the fact that the green way is the better one and it will work.

The rest about KGB is really funny but without any substance.

But again you are still defending your MIC if you spinning over to my problems here in germany. Your MIC is not good for you and they will not help you to find partners in the future. Parts of Africa, Southamerica and Asia are more China and Russia orientated, let´s see what the future brings.

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LeRentier
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Re: They learned she was ordering male prostitutes from an escort service
In reply to RobertSigmund, 9 months ago

RobertSigmund wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

kixigvaq wrote:

Just joking. But it would be funny if they had tapes or her saying "Send up a man who is tall, muscular, and not too pretty. I feel like some rough sex tonight!"

-- hide signature --

Abyssus abyssum invocat

If Russians or Chinese can have something on her which can change her actions, we (and German citizens first) should have the same on her too to understand her actions under pressure from adversaries and help to prevent them if necessary.

Seems some children of flowers here who don't understand how the world works at all.

Seems most Germans and most German politicians are children of flowers, because the indignation about the NSA behaviour is nearly 100 %.

I would not be surprised to see reprints of the US Go Home bumper stickers.

. . . _ _ _ . . .
veni vidi vomi

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peevee1
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Re: NSA even intecepted Merkel's private mobile phone!
In reply to Werderano, 9 months ago

Werderano wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

Werderano wrote:

One of them was not to spy in the UN. The only nation that broke this rule has been the US regulary and one report about China. And i don´t think the BND has tried it. ,-)

Again, nothing criminal about that.

I know, there is no point for you like you leader. And you named them MIC.

What?

Yes you americans are standing about every law,

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying.

we and not only we in germany have this problems with your soldiers...

I have problems with our Military-Industrial complex, and that problem is much bigger than yours, believe me. The crimes against humanity in Afghanistan and Iraq created hundreds of thousands if not millions of terrorists who want to kill ME, not you, and unlike you, I have to pay for it, through the nose.

But it has nothing to do with our foreign intelligence agencies actually doing their job and obtaining intelligence on foreign officials.

See for me their is a red line, for you not.

Any spying for you is a red line? You understand that EVERY country spies and being spied upon, right? It is inevitable reality. It is like saying that it is a bad thing to take people's freedom so let's not to have any prisons. Yeah, it is a bad thing, but there are worse things out there which this bad thing prevents.

Be proud, if you like it.

Proud of what? I have no connection neither to military-industrial complex nor spies except being forced to pay their salaries.

That you defend and support them with your statements today?

I do not defend or support our WAY TOO MUCH oversized Military-Industrial Complex, except by my taxes which I am forced to pay. Would you go to prison instead of supporting Lockheed Martin etc? Are you in prison for not supporting EADS with YOUR taxes?

But sometimes it´s good to have trust and morals. Thought this should be part of our democracy. You and your country are winning more and more friends around the world.. let´s see what the next weeks are bringing.

Sarcasm is not going to help you make your point. It does not change reality in a bit. I think people in your country are more outraged that THEIR calls where traced that their politicians were spied on.

The reality is, that the world could see what your real interest are. Not terrorism, what you are trying to say. Merkel is no Hitler.

But how would you know that early without timely intelligence about her? Schroeder certainly did more damage to Germany in 7 years than Hitler did in his first 7 years.

But we could discuss about Bush if you like?

What is the point, we probably agree about him (war criminal etc).

It´s about espionage and that under "partners" in the NATO, UN, E20,...

Your standarts are low, i hope the majority in the US has higher morals.

There is nothing immoral in trying to obtain information when not having the information might harm you gravely. And that is the case with big politics - make no mistake about that.

Ragarding expectations of privacy for public figures - read this for example:

http://www.rcfp.org/federal-foia-appeals-guide/exemption-6/ii-clearly-unwarranted-invasion-personal-privacy/nature-pri-7

“[P]ersons who have placed themselves in the public light, e.g., through politics, or voluntarily participate in the public arena have a significantly diminished privacy interest than others.”

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peevee1
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Re: NSA even intecepted Merkel's private mobile phone!
In reply to René Schuster, 9 months ago

René Schuster wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

Werderano wrote:

Yes you americans are standing about every law,

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying.

"Above" is what he meant to say, not "about". In German it would be the same word "über", no matter if it is in "talking über" (about) or "standing über" (above).

RS

Oh. But there are no international laws prohibiting spying (that would be ridiculous and unenforceable anyway because everybody does it, it is like laws prohibiting having armies), so there is nothing to stand above.

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RobertSigmund
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Re: NSA even intecepted Merkel's private mobile phone!
In reply to peevee1, 9 months ago

peevee1 wrote:

Werderano wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

Werderano wrote:

One of them was not to spy in the UN. The only nation that broke this rule has been the US regulary and one report about China. And i don´t think the BND has tried it. ,-)

Again, nothing criminal about that.

I know, there is no point for you like you leader. And you named them MIC.

What?

Yes you americans are standing about every law,

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying.

we and not only we in germany have this problems with your soldiers...

I have problems with our Military-Industrial complex, and that problem is much bigger than yours, believe me. The crimes against humanity in Afghanistan and Iraq created hundreds of thousands if not millions of terrorists who want to kill ME, not you, and unlike you, I have to pay for it, through the nose.

But it has nothing to do with our foreign intelligence agencies actually doing their job and obtaining intelligence on foreign officials.

See for me their is a red line, for you not.

Any spying for you is a red line? You understand that EVERY country spies and being spied upon, right? It is inevitable reality. It is like saying that it is a bad thing to take people's freedom so let's not to have any prisons. Yeah, it is a bad thing, but there are worse things out there which this bad thing prevents.

Be proud, if you like it.

Proud of what? I have no connection neither to military-industrial complex nor spies except being forced to pay their salaries.

That you defend and support them with your statements today?

I do not defend or support our WAY TOO MUCH oversized Military-Industrial Complex, except by my taxes which I am forced to pay. Would you go to prison instead of supporting Lockheed Martin etc? Are you in prison for not supporting EADS with YOUR taxes?

But sometimes it´s good to have trust and morals. Thought this should be part of our democracy. You and your country are winning more and more friends around the world.. let´s see what the next weeks are bringing.

Sarcasm is not going to help you make your point. It does not change reality in a bit. I think people in your country are more outraged that THEIR calls where traced that their politicians were spied on.

The reality is, that the world could see what your real interest are. Not terrorism, what you are trying to say. Merkel is no Hitler.

But how would you know that early without timely intelligence about her? Schroeder certainly did more damage to Germany in 7 years than Hitler did in his first 7 years.

But we could discuss about Bush if you like?

What is the point, we probably agree about him (war criminal etc).

It´s about espionage and that under "partners" in the NATO, UN, E20,...

Your standarts are low, i hope the majority in the US has higher morals.

There is nothing immoral in trying to obtain information when not having the information might harm you gravely. And that is the case with big politics - make no mistake about that.

Ragarding expectations of privacy for public figures - read this for example:

http://www.rcfp.org/federal-foia-appeals-guide/exemption-6/ii-clearly-unwarranted-invasion-personal-privacy/nature-pri-7

“[P]ersons who have placed themselves in the public light, e.g., through politics, or voluntarily participate in the public arena have a significantly diminished privacy interest than others.”

Yes, and I, as a photographer, am the last person to contest this. Yet, significantly diminished does not mean zero. There still is a considerable privacy sphere even for a chancellor that has to be respected!

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René Schuster
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Re: NSA even intecepted Merkel's private mobile phone!
In reply to Werderano, 9 months ago

Werderano wrote:

René Schuster wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

Werderano wrote:

Yes you americans are standing about every law,

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying.

"Above" is what he meant to say, not "about". In German it would be the same word "über", no matter if it is in "talking über" (about) or "standing über" (above).

RS

Where did i had my head? Thank you, again.

Please-beautiful!

For Americans: The German translation of "You're welcome!" is "Bitteschön!". Now when I take that word apart and translate the single pieces, I have "Bitte" (= please) and "schön" (= beautiful), so "please-beautiful!" 

No idea, but back in the sixties we had a President Heinrich Lübke, who was rather famous for his funny, incorrect English; "Please-beautiful" could have been one of his creations!

RS

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peevee1
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Re: This is unquestionably Not Good
In reply to Werderano, 9 months ago

Werderano wrote:

Good to read, but don´t forget Bush and be aware that maybe some more are coming.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/24/nsa-surveillance-world-leaders-calls

I am not forgetting, and I wish somebody would listen to his calls and publishing them in 2002 - it might have prevented Iraq war and some other atrocities of his, and his second term too.

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Werderano
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Re: NSA even intecepted Merkel's private mobile phone!
In reply to peevee1, 9 months ago

We need an agreement on an international level, something what is not thinkeble for you.

You thoughts about Merkels future gave me a smile. Overcome you fear, it will eat you from the inside. Good night.

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RobertSigmund
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Re: NSA even intecepted Merkel's private mobile phone!
In reply to René Schuster, 9 months ago

René Schuster wrote:

Werderano wrote:

René Schuster wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

Werderano wrote:

Yes you americans are standing about every law,

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying.

"Above" is what he meant to say, not "about". In German it would be the same word "über", no matter if it is in "talking über" (about) or "standing über" (above).

RS

Where did i had my head? Thank you, again.

Please-beautiful!

For Americans: The German translation of "You're welcome!" is "Bitteschön!". Now when I take that word apart and translate the single pieces, I have "Bitte" (= please) and "schön" (= beautiful), so "please-beautiful!"

No idea, but back in the sixties we had a President Heinrich Lübke, who was rather famous for his funny, incorrect English; "Please-beautiful" could have been one of his creations!

RS

His best quote is: "Ladies and gentlemen, dear negroes!"

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peevee1
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Re: NSA even intecepted Merkel's private mobile phone!
In reply to LeRentier, 9 months ago

LeRentier wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

LeRentier wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

RobertSigmund wrote:

Werderano wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

RobertSigmund wrote:

All the time she tried to play down the affair, but this goes too far. Now she is outraged and complained with Obama.

I have to repeat: Obama apparently has no sense for what is right and what is wrong. For a lawyer, I find this really strange.

Honestly - spying on leaders of foreign countries is their job. And it is rich expecting privacy when taking public political position.

Spying on our own citizens without a warrant obtained with some reasonable suspicion of a crime is a totally different issue - a crime by itself.

So braking international law is not criminal?

It is.

Really? Cannot find "breaking international law" anywhere in our criminal code:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I

You know, professional killers also "only do their job".

You know, professional killers are also necessary (would be great if somebody would take out Hitler in 1933 for example), but at least murder is clearly a crime in criminal codes of all countries.

Next you will say that your constitution says nothing which would make the NSA's spying illegal, as long as it happens outside Brooklyn ?

Again - spying outside of US is legal, spying inside of US without probable cause is illegal according to 4th Amendment of US Constitution and supporting laws and Supreme Court decisions. The problem is that they do the second, not the first (we hired them to do the first after all).

And make no mistake, you French also have spies. You would be complete fools not to, and you are not complete fools - at least heat in your homes is not completely in the hands of Putin and your energy is your own from one of the best nuclear industries in the world and the fools east of you even have to buy some from you.

It is amusing that for you, and so any others, legality hinges around US law only, legislation in other countries means absolutely nothing to you and that, my friend, has been becoming a concern which will bite you.

Just like legislation prohibiting women from driving in Saudi Arabia mean nothing to you. Really, would you abide THAT? Our laws mean nothing to you too - like one of our most sacred laws, the 1st Amendment providing protection of free speech and association - French and Germans punish political speech and participation in certain political organizations with incarceration.

If we would want some laws, we would enact them here. (Well, theoretically, if we would have a working democracy - which we do not anymore).

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Werderano
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Re: NSA even intecepted Merkel's private mobile phone!
In reply to RobertSigmund, 9 months ago

RobertSigmund wrote:

René Schuster wrote:

Werderano wrote:

René Schuster wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

Werderano wrote:

Yes you americans are standing about every law,

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying.

"Above" is what he meant to say, not "about". In German it would be the same word "über", no matter if it is in "talking über" (about) or "standing über" (above).

RS

Where did i had my head? Thank you, again.

Please-beautiful!

For Americans: The German translation of "You're welcome!" is "Bitteschön!". Now when I take that word apart and translate the single pieces, I have "Bitte" (= please) and "schön" (= beautiful), so "please-beautiful!"

No idea, but back in the sixties we had a President Heinrich Lübke, who was rather famous for his funny, incorrect English; "Please-beautiful" could have been one of his creations!

RS

His best quote is: "Ladies and gentlemen, dear negroes!"

Unforgettable...:-)

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René Schuster
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Re: NSA even intecepted Merkel's private mobile phone!
In reply to RobertSigmund, 9 months ago

RobertSigmund wrote:

René Schuster wrote:

Werderano wrote:

René Schuster wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

Werderano wrote:

Yes you americans are standing about every law,

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying.

"Above" is what he meant to say, not "about". In German it would be the same word "über", no matter if it is in "talking über" (about) or "standing über" (above).

RS

Where did i had my head? Thank you, again.

Please-beautiful!

For Americans: The German translation of "You're welcome!" is "Bitteschön!". Now when I take that word apart and translate the single pieces, I have "Bitte" (= please) and "schön" (= beautiful), so "please-beautiful!"

No idea, but back in the sixties we had a President Heinrich Lübke, who was rather famous for his funny, incorrect English; "Please-beautiful" could have been one of his creations!

RS

His best quote is: "Ladies and gentlemen, dear negroes!"

"Equal goes it loose" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BCbke_English

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_L%C3%BCbke

RS

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