Nikon's 5 year plan...

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
Lance B
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Re: Nikon's 5 year plan...
In reply to Tommot1965, 9 months ago

Tommot1965 wrote:

I PMSL when I read your Post Lance.....DPR would wither and die if posters only commented on items relevant to the discussion...particularly these type of threads ...made me laugh mate

cheers

Steve

Glad you enjoyed it.

However, being old and cranky and having lived a fair time on this earth, I have become very cynical of the media. As they say, don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Lance B wrote:

motobloat wrote:

Lance B wrote:

business.financialpost.com/2013/10/05/point-shoot-collapse-why-big-camera-companies-are-the-next-blackberry/?__lsa=de50-bc6b

Typical sensationalism. How else are they going to get people to read their articles and therefore garner advertising space?

People want and need DSLR's, therefore there is a market and therefore Nikon and Canon will survive.

Good thing you're not the CEO of Nikon or Canon It's that type of hubris and short-term thinking that destroys companies.

You misinterpreted the reason for the post. It was in reaction the the death od the DSLR, not the reason for them to introduce different technologies. DSLR's will live on, it has nothing to do with not saying that other technologies will emerge. Get your facts right before jumping to conclusions.

e.g.

"People want and need film and film cameras therefore there is a market and therefore Kodak will survive." (nope, failed to change with the times, outmoded by digital cameras)

rrelevent to this discussion.

"People want and need a physical keyboard on their phone therefore there is a market and therefore Blackberry will survive." (nope, outmoded by touchscreens)

Irrelevent to this discussion

"People want and need video rental stores therefore there is a market and therefore Blockbuster will survive." (nope, outmoded by Netflix, Hulu, Redbox, etc.)

Irrelevent to this discussion

"People want and need a piano in the home therefore there is a market and therefore Aeolian-American Piano Company will survive." (nope, what was once the world's largest piano company was outmoded by the radio and later television)

Irrelevent to this discussion

"People want and need horsedrawn carriages therefore there is a market and therefore Buggy Whip Mfg. Co. will survive." (nope, outmoded by the automobile)

Irrelevent to this discussion

etc. etc. etc.

Times are-a-changing: today all of these things (and a lot more) fit in your pocket, in one device:

See my opening statement.

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shigzeo ?
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Re: Nikon's 5 year plan...
In reply to ultimitsu, 9 months ago

I will make a few quick comments:

1, Cameras saw unprecedented, in fact, arguably unnatural, growth for about 10 or 15 years. It was the advent of digital camera and the sudden lowered cost of photography enticing a lot of otherwise uninterested people into photography. You can say it was merely a fashion trend and like all fashion trends, it was always going to die down. But that doesnt mean the core hobbyists will disappear or change what they do. So yes, we will see a decline in sales, but the decline will merely go backto,  at the most, where things were before the age of digital camera.

2, notwithstanding what I said above. The general interest in photography has not died down. What has happened, is that the majority, who care more about instant sharing over ultimate quality, merely found smart phones to be more convenient. They choose to use smartphone only because they can share images instantly. It truly is surprising how camera makers are so slow at realising this. As of 2013 no major camera makers make a mid-high end camera with 3G connection or NFC. only a handful have wifi. People used to carry a cellphone and a small camera with them. there is no reason why that is suddenly unthinkable. except right now it is very inconvenient because you have to move SD card around to copy images. If cameras like A7, or V1, or G16 or RX100 or S110 had NFC, you just touch it with your smartphone and instantly you can upload pictures to facebook, many people will come back to stand alone cameras.

Recently a friend of mine went to Thailand with his girlfriend for a holiday, He took his D300 + 17-50 yet he took 99% of his pictures with iPhone 5. Why? because he wanted to upload images to instagram, facebook, wechat, ALL THE TIME, to show off where he has been what he has just eaten or how hot his girlfriend is bikini. Now I wouldn't do that myself because I want my images to be as good as possible so when I come back look at them again in 15 years I wont have regrets. But I can certainly understand his thinking. So why is it camera makers are so slow to catch up with this trend?

Like the article said, Nikon's 5 year plan should have been in place 5 years ago. indeed. If 5 years ago (when iphone 1 was out for one full year which already started changed the way people use their phones) Nikon had the vision to see how things would turn out, they should have included an accessory bay in all their DSLRS which allows you to plug in an add-on that does not protrude like the wifi chip for D600/D3200. Then my friend may well have been shooting d300 during his thai trip, and his next planned camera would be a D7100 rather than iPhone 5S.

Sadly, 5 years down the line, they still havent thought of that. 6D is about as advanced as they come and it doesnt have programmable OS or NFC. D600 is even worse with that stupid 70 dollar add-on.

Do you have any pictures of his girlfriend? I think a link would be appreciated.
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sportyaccordy
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Re: Nikon's 5 year plan...
In reply to stevo23, 9 months ago

I agree 100% with this article. Nikon still has a chance though. They can re-engineer their mirrorless platform as phones, which with backlit 1" sensors would elevate the IQ and still give the connectivity people want.

The main customers for DSLRs were people who didn't have them. Now I think pretty much everyone who wants a DSLR has one, and there is zero reason for them to upgrade. The few folks who upgrade faithfully are not enough to support the business. Nikon definitely needs a new strategy.

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stevo23
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Re: Nikon's 5 year plan...
In reply to sportyaccordy, 9 months ago

sportyaccordy wrote:

I agree 100% with this article. Nikon still has a chance though. They can re-engineer their mirrorless platform as phones, which with backlit 1" sensors would elevate the IQ and still give the connectivity people want.

Phones for what carrier? That's a battle I wouldn't want to fight.

The main customers for DSLRs were people who didn't have them. Now I think pretty much everyone who wants a DSLR has one, and there is zero reason for them to upgrade. The few folks who upgrade faithfully are not enough to support the business. Nikon definitely needs a new strategy.

Nikon also sells lenses...

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ragmanjin
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Re: Get going on the D400 and the 7DII
In reply to motobloat, 9 months ago

motobloat wrote:

ragmanjin wrote:

Actually, I think market shares are going to see a lot of shifts. Pentax seems to have planned their latest camera around exactly what you guys are talking about: A small, durable, weather-resistant and top-specced crop camera that's poised to take away a lot of market share from the non-existent D400 and 7DII (I know this link has been thrown around pretty often on here already, but Thom Hogan describes the K-3 as the Pentax D400 http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/meanwhile-meet-the-pentax.html and similar rumblings are taking place on Canon forums). What's more, it's just in time for the holiday season and priced to move; sounds like a recipe for success.

SO if Ricoh/Pentax does manage to steal a sizeable chunk of the pro APS-C/enthusiast crop market this season, I don't think it's going to be undone any time soon.

Damn, the K3 does actually look really good, and so does the Pentax lens lineup (pdf).

The only think Pentax is missing is the super-telephoto, but at least you can get the old 400mm f/2.8 on the used market.

Yeah, they've got a ton of legacy glass. Plus a lot of the Sigma telephoto lenses come in a Pentax K mount, so anything Pentax doesn't have in their own lens lineup you can still get one way or another.

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sportyaccordy
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Re: Nikon's 5 year plan...
In reply to stevo23, 9 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

I agree 100% with this article. Nikon still has a chance though. They can re-engineer their mirrorless platform as phones, which with backlit 1" sensors would elevate the IQ and still give the connectivity people want.

Phones for what carrier? That's a battle I wouldn't want to fight.

Make the phones unlocked and do both GSM & CDMA. Let the people decide.

The main customers for DSLRs were people who didn't have them. Now I think pretty much everyone who wants a DSLR has one, and there is zero reason for them to upgrade. The few folks who upgrade faithfully are not enough to support the business. Nikon definitely needs a new strategy.

Nikon also sells lenses...

Lenses face the same problem as the cameras. ~7 years ago the only way to take decent digital photos was with a DSLR. Now a cell phone is good enough. Who's gonna buy a DSLR, let alone upgraded lenses???

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Cyrille Berger
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Re: Nikon's 5 year plan...
In reply to stevo23, 9 months ago

The problem with analysts is that they are more often wrong than rights. Enron and Lehman had the highest rating the day before their fall. But if analysts are right once, they become oracles, and get a lot of influence, on investors and bankers, the main conscequence for Nikon is that they could have more trouble to get money (assuming japanese banks read the FT which I find doubtful).

What the author misses is that DSLR can become a niche market and companies operating in that market can do just fine on the long term. For smartphone, it is more difficult, there is nothing you can do with a blackberry that you can't do with an other brand, in fact, that is the biggeat mistake of blackberry, they thought that blackberry messenging was enough to give them an advantage on the competition, they were wrong. However, even if the quality of smartphone camera improves, you will allways get better results with larger sensor and larger lenses, meaning that the DSLR/high end photograhy market is not going away anytime soon. And Nikon will not earn as much money, but they will keep existing. We will also get less new products, but then as the market reach maturity, it is to be expected, especially since at the same time the progress in sensor technology is slowing down. Also, Nikon is at its core an optic company, they do a lot more than just camera and lenses, and there is no reason for them to lose ground in those areas, and they will still be able to innovate in this area and to produce great lenses. Of course, with the loss of the P&S market, Nikon will have to scale down, and unfortunately they will have to fire some employees. Also, some of the R&D cost that was spread on the whole camera range will be only on DSLR/V1, meaning higher cost for us.

Overall, the biggest threat to Nikon could come from the raise of cheap Chinese manufacturers, they could come and eat up the low end DSLR market, and that would significatively reduce the ability of Nikon to keep operating its pro line, there is more synergy between D3x00 and D4, than between the coolpix and DSLR. It is what has basically hapened in the telescope market, until 20 years ago, the biggest manufacturers were in the US and Japan, now most of the production is in China, and the chinese companies have even bought the older brands. Nowdays, all the affordable telescopes are Chinese made, and only the more specialized, custom made stuff is left in Japan, US and Europe. And this could very well hapen to DSLR.

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sportyaccordy
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Re: Nikon's 5 year plan...
In reply to Cyrille Berger, 9 months ago

Cyrille Berger wrote:

The problem with analysts is that they are more often wrong than rights.

This is just not true and believe me I am no fan of analysts.

However, even if the quality of smartphone camera improves, you will allways get better results with larger sensor and larger lenses, meaning that the DSLR/high end photograhy market is not going away anytime soon.

This matters to a decreasingly small amount of people. Smartphones are far from matching DSLRs in all situations, but for basic photography they are more than good enough. Plus pretty much anyone who wants a DSLR has one.

Overall, the biggest threat to Nikon could come from the raise of cheap Chinese manufacturers, they could come and eat up the low end DSLR market, and that would significatively reduce the ability of Nikon to keep operating its pro line, there is more synergy between D3x00 and D4, than between the coolpix and DSLR. It is what has basically hapened in the telescope market, until 20 years ago, the biggest manufacturers were in the US and Japan, now most of the production is in China, and the chinese companies have even bought the older brands. Nowdays, all the affordable telescopes are Chinese made, and only the more specialized, custom made stuff is left in Japan, US and Europe. And this could very well hapen to DSLR.

Sensors are too hard for Chinese manufacturers to duplicate successfully. Plus they would have a whole bunch of useless proprietary mounts. It would never work.

Also don't forget the used DSLR market is tremendous, further pushing prices out of profitability. And manufacturers have kind of killed themselves with all these releases. There have been 4 D5xxx bodies to come out in the last 5 years for example. D5100 was worth the upgrade over the D5000. D5200 and D5300, it's very debatable and probably not worth it to someone who has a D5100.

IMO Nikon's best move will be to focus on their higher end and serious photographers. Market saturation and smartphones have killed the low end of the market.

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rhlpetrus
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Re: Canon reports decline in dslrs
In reply to Leif Goodwin, 9 months ago

Leif Goodwin wrote:

photohp wrote:

roustabout66 wrote:

Exactly...that was the point of the original article. All traditional camera companies face an uncertain future with all the competing "good enough" products out there. Some companies are just less vulnerable in the long run that others.

I think it has to do with their inability/unwillingness to adapt to the new data. They try old business practices in a new market.

For example, releasing cameras with disabled features just so they can charge more on the high ends. Or not being innovative enough. Or trying to dictate what the customer wants. Etc..

Nikon/Canon don't have the monopoly anymore, that's their problem. They have to adapt or become dinosaurs.

As someone else said, look up the meaning of monopoly.

Canon and Nikon have taken the major share of the market. That resulted from the difficulties of making the transition to digital, where many companies simply did not have competitive cameras and Canon and Nikon cleaned up. It is possible that the market may even out, and smaller players grab back market share, although Canon and Nikon now have the advantage of a much larger income, allowing much greater investment in new products, creating a virtuous circle for them.

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peevee1
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Re: Nikon's 5 year plan...
In reply to Aurora0026, 9 months ago

Aurora0026 wrote:

It would be very sad, but it would not be surprisingly to me if Nikon will get the same fate as Minolta and eventually be acquired by some mega corporation, like Sony or even Google.

Google does not need this sht for sure.

From Sony I expected much more since there acquirement of Minolta. They have so much potential to be the market leader in DSLR. But as long as they stick with there EVFs and noisy sensors and overpriced lenses, they won't get there.

EVF is the future, advantages are enormous (and competing with OVF cameras from C/N is useless, stubborn old-times have enough lenses and flashes from them not to switch anyway.)

Their sensors are the LEAST noisy in business and used by absolutely everybody except Canon - including Apple BTW.

Yes, the lenses are overpriced.

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rhlpetrus
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Re: No monopoly
In reply to jfriend00, 9 months ago

jfriend00 wrote:

sandy b wrote:

I am not a fan of Monopolys, But Nikon and Canon still have 85% of the DSLR market. Nikon and Canon scaled down shipment expectations, but so did everyone. The Monopoly is alive and well.

I think you need to look up the definition of a "monopoly". Perhaps "mono" would give you a clue. At best this is an oligopoly. Either way, I would agree that dSLRs is not a normally competitive market with numerous healthy players. The tech change to mirrorless may serve to break up this oligopoly.

From the recent sales reports, it doesn't seem strict ML systems are doing very well, especially in the US. I think N/C will continue to dominate, and that will eventually mena ML systems as well. It's the weight of brand recognition plus large systems plus large userbase. No one has been able to break into that, actually digital saw the demise or reduction in participation of many competitors.

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peevee1
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Re: Get going on the D400 and the 7DII
In reply to jfriend00, 9 months ago

jfriend00 wrote:

But, there are some types of photography that the dSLR has a major technical advantage and simply can't be shot well with less capable cameras such as shooting action. Doesn't it seem odd that Nikon is not making cameras that leverage one of the biggest advantages of dSLRs (speed of focus and action tracking at high fps in bad light conditions)?

It was a temporary advantage which existed before development of good OSPDAF. OSPDAF (in mirrorless camera) has many principal advantages over DSLR-style separate PDAF, including ability to work with more light (no need to share light with viewfinder and separate metering sensors), precision (what you have on the main sensor is what you are going to get in the image), reliability (no misalignments ever, less parts to break...), cost (no precision assembly, just a chip - the same one for image taking), size, weight, working in video, no need to flip mirror for high-speed shooting (and no associated noise, vibrations, reliability problems), and what has not been realized yet (except in video) but can be - continuous tracking DURING exposure. Olympus E-M1 has already better PDAF than their own top DSLR (E-5), Canon 70D in OSPDAF mode has better AF than in mirrored mode with its top-of-the line APS-C AF system taken straight from 7D (read reviews). TODAY.

And EVFs today have bigger, brighter views than even FF OVFs, with very adequate 240Hz refresh rate and negligible 25ms delay, with many unique advantages OVFs can never have - WYSIWYG (white balance, crop - with enlargement, ISO noise etc), working in video, brightness boost in dark conditions, tilting (in some cases), live histograms, focus distance, DoF scales and many other shooting information types, overexposure/underexposure preview (blinkies and/or zebra), many focusing aids - enlargements in various steps, focus peaking display and/or "electronic rangefinder" display, instant view of a photo taken without switching to the screen (which might not be visible in bright sun and simply takes more time) and back to VF, preview of IBIS (which itself can correct what OIS cannot and removes the need to have OIS in every lens), safety to shoot with sun in the frame (you are not going blind with EVF)... People denying all those advantages are simply deluding themselves. The only REAL advantage OVF has is battery life (but not as much as some people think comparing DSLRs with mirrorless - DSLRs in most cases simply have bigger batteries.

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peevee1
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Re: If the author is correct.... and I suspect he is....
In reply to broody, 9 months ago

broody wrote:

2) The consumer DSLR offerings are just messed up. Let's see, now that smartphones are eating the camera market for breakfast, what do DSLRs have to differentiate themselves? The 'DSLR look' is about bokeh, low-light shooting, and detail-intensive genres such as macro photography. That's something you will never, ever get out of a smartphone.

I would not be so sure about "bokeh". A sensor like the one in 70D can in principle record depth information in every pixel. Then it is a matter of a simple algorithm to create whatever bokeh you want, including much better quality one than ANY lens can do.

And you are simply wrong about macro shooting. Small dense sensors can record much better detail in small objects than big low-density DSLR sensors. For example, a 1/2.3"-class point and shoot sensor (like the one in Sony Experia Z) with 20 mpix can have 20 mpix on 6 x 4.5mm object with 1:1 lens, while FF sensor, even in D800, will have only about 1 mpix.

There is of course a big difference in low light, especially with narrow angles of view - but it has nothing to do with DSLR per se and everything to do with size of the lens.

But can a consumer who walks out of a store with a T5i with kit lens for $900 do any of that? No. And it's because of the kit lens. Kit lenses suck, they haver very little,

I agree, and offering better kit lenses is an opportunity to compete some 2nd-tier camera manufacturers miss. Although Sony offers 16-50/2.8 with their A77 for just $600 extra and it is a great deal. Oly now offers 12-40/2.8 with E-M1 for $800 extra, not such a great deal but pretty good regardless. Amount of resources the companies spend developing and redeveloping f/3.5-f/5.6 3x jokes is mind-boggling (especially in the case of Panasonic who developed 5!!! such lenses for m43 in the short 5 years the system exists).

Probably the lenses are specifically designed to be so inadequate to try and push customers to buy more lenses - at very different prices.

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Justaguy93
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Re: Get going on the D400 and the 7DII
In reply to peevee1, 9 months ago

I agree with absolutely everything jfriend just said.

I recently moved from a Nikon dSLR to a Sony mirrorless and EVF is where it is at.  I get that there are advantages to having a viewfinder just for the eye vs an LCD screen on the back of the camera, but the EVF vs OVF debate is, IMHO, silly.  EVF is superior is virtually every way.  I can set focus point with the touch of a finger, i can reliably manual focus for the first time in my life through zoom/focus peaking, I can meter with any lens that can be attached to the camera, which is all of them.  Not to mention my personal top reason for switching, to finally be done with the endlessly frustrating, does lens x match up well with body y and how many countless hours of focus fine tune adjustment will it take to get everything working well together?  Oh and am I shooting indoors under light from a normal 60 watt bulb?  Better account for the backfocus I'm going to get with my d7k/35mm 1.8 combination!  I'll take accuracy over speed any day in the focus department, at least for my uses.  Oh and I can fix my NEX with a 35mm Nikon prime attached into my coat pocket when I go out for a hike.  That's nothing to ignore either.

I really, really wanted a Nikon version of the NEX, as I was entirely committed to Nikon hardware and PP software, but after much research I came to the conclusion that I would be waiting a long, long time for that to materialize if it ever did.

Now I'm a nobody enthusiast, but you'd better believe there are a lot of me turning their backs on Nikon since they refuse to really innovate, rather continuing to refine the same basic camera models over and over again.  And yes their business model does reek of a company who may not be out of business in 5 years but might very well be at the brink of a terminal decline for failing to adapt to market conditions.

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jfriend00
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Re: Get going on the D400 and the 7DII
In reply to peevee1, 9 months ago

peevee1 wrote:

jfriend00 wrote:

But, there are some types of photography that the dSLR has a major technical advantage and simply can't be shot well with less capable cameras such as shooting action. Doesn't it seem odd that Nikon is not making cameras that leverage one of the biggest advantages of dSLRs (speed of focus and action tracking at high fps in bad light conditions)?

It was a temporary advantage which existed before development of good OSPDAF. OSPDAF (in mirrorless camera) has many principal advantages over DSLR-style separate PDAF, including ability to work with more light (no need to share light with viewfinder and separate metering sensors), precision (what you have on the main sensor is what you are going to get in the image), reliability (no misalignments ever, less parts to break...), cost (no precision assembly, just a chip - the same one for image taking), size, weight, working in video, no need to flip mirror for high-speed shooting (and no associated noise, vibrations, reliability problems), and what has not been realized yet (except in video) but can be - continuous tracking DURING exposure. Olympus E-M1 has already better PDAF than their own top DSLR (E-5), Canon 70D in OSPDAF mode has better AF than in mirrored mode with its top-of-the line APS-C AF system taken straight from 7D (read reviews). TODAY.

And EVFs today have bigger, brighter views than even FF OVFs, with very adequate 240Hz refresh rate and negligible 25ms delay, with many unique advantages OVFs can never have - WYSIWYG (white balance, crop - with enlargement, ISO noise etc), working in video, brightness boost in dark conditions, tilting (in some cases), live histograms, focus distance, DoF scales and many other shooting information types, overexposure/underexposure preview (blinkies and/or zebra), many focusing aids - enlargements in various steps, focus peaking display and/or "electronic rangefinder" display, instant view of a photo taken without switching to the screen (which might not be visible in bright sun and simply takes more time) and back to VF, preview of IBIS (which itself can correct what OIS cannot and removes the need to have OIS in every lens), safety to shoot with sun in the frame (you are not going blind with EVF)... People denying all those advantages are simply deluding themselves. The only REAL advantage OVF has is battery life (but not as much as some people think comparing DSLRs with mirrorless - DSLRs in most cases simply have bigger batteries.

Please point me to a mirrorless camera with at least an APS-C sized sensor that has better AF tracking in low light and low contrast for action photography than the Nikon D300 or D700.

In my action photography the most difficult test cases are a dark colored smallish bird in flight at dawn/dusk with a complicated background or a soccer player wearing a solid, dark colored uniform at twilight with subjects coming towards you at a relatively rapid rate, but weaving unpredictably as they go. I'd love to find a mirrorless camera that can do better AF on these types of subjects than what I have today with my dSLR.

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sandy b
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For years the Canon/Nikon stranglehold has been recognised
In reply to jfriend00, 9 months ago

to the point of being called Canikon. So while you are technically correct, everyone here understood my point.

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jfriend00
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Re: For years the Canon/Nikon stranglehold has been recognised
In reply to sandy b, 9 months ago

sandy b wrote:

to the point of being called Canikon. So while you are technically correct, everyone here understood my point.

Yes, and it is an oligopoly, not a monopoly.  There is a big difference.  Canikon do not behave as one company.

Canon and Nikon compete with each other quite significantly which does not happen in a monopoly.  It's just that if both seem to be complacent in one area of the market, then neither feels any significant competitive pressure to do anything about it - to the detriment of the consumer.

I'm very glad that we have Fuji, Sony, Pentax and Olympus pushing the limits of smaller sensor cameras (APS-C and m43) because without that it appears that Nikon and Canon would not be compelled to do anything but try to force customers to buy their FF cameras.  As it stands now, Nikon and Canon's APS-C product lines are under serious attack.  Those attacks may not have really hurt them yet, but since Canon and Nikon still get more of their revenue from the smaller sensor lines, it's going to start dinging their revenue/profits soon if it hasn't already.  Hopefully that will spur them into action and we'll see some innovation in that space.

Nikon actually did some pretty amazing innovation and engineering with their Nikon 1 line, but it was improperly packaged, positioned and priced and, in most parts of the world, it had little impact on the market or on their profitability.  If they could aim that level of innovation where most of their customers are (the APS-C product line), they could probably do some pretty amazing things.

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sportyaccordy
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Re: Get going on the D400 and the 7DII
In reply to jfriend00, 9 months ago

jfriend00 wrote:

But, there are some types of photography that the dSLR has a major technical advantage and simply can't be shot well with less capable cameras such as shooting action.
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For the average consumer, this type of photography is nearly non-existent. ~5-8 years ago, for general photography, the gulf between cameraphones and DSLRs was huge. However, now with the significant downsampling of the main avenues people look at pictures through, as well as the IQ leaps of cameraphones, that gulf has been pretty much bridged. Most people's monitors are 1080p at most and their photo sharing services downsize and compress heavily. So for them, a cameraphone is generally more than enough.

And at this point, people who need more either already have more or can buy more used. All of these indicators point to less NEW sales for any camera that isn't attached to a cell phone. Unfortunately for Nikon, its mirrorless system is probably the weakest of the bunch, and without serious reinvestment in marketing and technology will stay that way. I.e. it's nowhere in the league of something like NEX or MFT. Those systems can crossover into the phone realm easily I think, with "lens cap" lenses for pocket duty and then whatever you want if you need more.

We really have to put things in perspective. Most kids today enter the world of photography through their phones and IG/FB. A big, clunky, disconnected camera is kind of old hat. Even if Nikon's not gone in 5 years the future isn't looking bright. If they want to maintain revenue and profitability it will take way more than more specialized cameras aimed at an aging and shrinking market sector. They have to completely rethink their business IMO and focus on phones. An Android powered Nikon phone would do very, very, very well IMO. It wouldn't have to be APS-C or anything- just significantly better than the competition and competitively priced. I think Nikon could do it easily.

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sportyaccordy
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Re: For years the Canon/Nikon stranglehold has been recognised
In reply to jfriend00, 9 months ago

jfriend00 wrote:

Nikon actually did some pretty amazing innovation and engineering with their Nikon 1 line, but it was improperly packaged, positioned and priced and, in most parts of the world, it had little impact on the market or on their profitability. If they could aim that level of innovation where most of their customers are (the APS-C product line), they could probably do some pretty amazing things.
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I'll say it again- the Nikon 1 line would have, and potentially still can be, a huge success if Nikon gives it cell phone capabilities. But Nikon hast to be willing to take that kind of risk.

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jfriend00
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Re: For years the Canon/Nikon stranglehold has been recognised
In reply to sportyaccordy, 9 months ago

sportyaccordy wrote:

jfriend00 wrote:

Nikon actually did some pretty amazing innovation and engineering with their Nikon 1 line, but it was improperly packaged, positioned and priced and, in most parts of the world, it had little impact on the market or on their profitability. If they could aim that level of innovation where most of their customers are (the APS-C product line), they could probably do some pretty amazing things.

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I'll say it again- the Nikon 1 line would have, and potentially still can be, a huge success if Nikon gives it cell phone capabilities. But Nikon hast to be willing to take that kind of risk.

Nikon going into the cell phone business is laughable.  Perhaps Nikon could partner with someone who already has success in the cell phone business and be a camera component supplier (I actually think they are trying to do this).  But, for Nikon to try to break into establishing a brand as a cell phone provider and making money at doing that is simply not going to happen.  That is a brutally competitive business (that is wiping out many companies now) that requires massive resources on a worldwide scale to make money at it and very astute product picking, fast product deliver and great consumer marketing.  And, you have to be really, really good at making cell phones, spinning new models quickly, building distribution through a zillion worldwide carriers, etc...

Nikon could also decide to add 4G wireless connectivity to a camera (and not be selling it as a phone) like many tablets do.  The challenge there is that on most cell plans, you have to pay monthly for that device connectivity (there are some newer plans were you don't pay by device, you just pay by total data consumption).

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