I don't see much enthusiasm for the XE2 here

Started Oct 22, 2013 | Discussions
marike6
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Re: Top Camera on DPR Widget
In reply to Red5TX, Oct 23, 2013

Red5TX wrote:

Dave Luttmann wrote:

marike6 wrote:

If you look at the DPR Top Camera widget, an app that calculates the top searched camera, the X-E2 is first. As I understand it there is some glitch preventing the A7 from being on the list. But even so, the fact remains there is a lot of interest in the X-E2, and for good reason.

As far as interest around here, I would assume that most people here already have an X-Pro1, X-E1 or X100s. I got back into the Fujifilm X system a couple of days ago, and I chose the X-E1 kit over the X-E2 for two reasons. One, it's available now and the good weather is not going to be around much longer in the North East US. And perhaps more importantly, budget. The X-E1 kit, with the instant rebate was substantially less expensive than the X-E2 kit, leaving more money for lenses like the 35 f/1.4.

But the X-E2 is an excellent upgrade of an already great camera. So I fully expect to upgrade at some point now that I'm back using the X system.

The A7 I have zero interest in it whatsoever as I already have a FF DSLR that I could not possibly be happier with and I'm definitely not in the camp that finds a DSLR large or heavy.

My take on the A7 is that the body may be reasonably priced, but the lenses not at all. The blue sticker Zeiss branded lenses, many with rather slow max apertures, are simply priced too high. A Sony/Zeiss 35 f/2.8 for $800? Seriously? Has anyone here ever spent that much money for a modest f/2.8 prime that wasn't a macro lens? And the f4 zooms are even more expensive. At least with F-mount, $200 primes like the excellent optics like 50 f/1.8G are available. The Sony 55 f/1.8 for the NEX FF? $1200. Thanks, but no thanks.

The X-E1 I couldn't be happier with it. The kit zoom extremely well made with excellent optics. And when I add one or two primes, and perhaps the excellent 55-200, I'm going to be all set.

But the X-E2 looks like an excellent update that people on DPR are talking about.

The Sony is on the widget....and is way down from the Fuji

With all due respect to Fuji (which I own and love), I would be stunned if there were really more searches for the X-E2 than the A7/r. As someone noted, the X-E2 is an evolutionary upgrade of a well-known product. The A7/r is a completely new camera system.

I was told there is a glitch in the DPR software that is preventing the A7 searches from showing up. Not sure why that would be because the other announced Sony, the RX10, is showing up in the widget.

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Charlesn
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Re: I don't see much enthusiasm for the XE2 here
In reply to Astrophotographer 10, Oct 23, 2013

Greg, you sort of explained your own observation. No, not much enthusiasm, but that's expected when you take an already excellent, year-old camera and spec-bump it just to stay competitive in the marketplace. That's not a knock against Fuji, they have to play the game to attract new buyers, but this wasn't intended to be a compelling upgrade.

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Red5TX
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Re: I don't see much enthusiasm for the XE2 here
In reply to Charlesn, Oct 23, 2013

Charlesn wrote:

Greg, you sort of explained your own observation. No, not much enthusiasm, but that's expected when you take an already excellent, year-old camera and spec-bump it just to stay competitive in the marketplace. That's not a knock against Fuji, they have to play the game to attract new buyers, but this wasn't intended to be a compelling upgrade.

Yes, my wallet trembles when I consider how I'll feel when Fuji takes the next big leap, perhaps with the XP2 or X-E3.  The X-E2 looks very nice but I can resist it.

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marike6
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Sure it is...
In reply to 1drey, Oct 23, 2013

1drey wrote:

XE2 is not good enough to replace my DSLR for serious event and reportage photography.

You must have extremely demanding needs, because I keep reading about a number of photographers using the Fujifilm X cameras for all kinds of events.

For example, Nasim Mansurov talks about how he's now using the X-E1 alongside his D800 at weddings. He and his second shooter are both using the X-E1 (not the updated X-E2) for the reception.

Read about his experiences at weddings here and how he's replaced his EM-5 with the X-E1.

'http://photographylife.com/reviews/fuji-x-e1/8

I get that the Fujifilm X system is missing some popular DSLR lens equivalents common at events like the 70-200 f/2.8, but to suggest that the unreleased X-E2 cannot replace a DSLR for event shooting is a little premature considering nobody has even shot with an X-E2 yet.

The 16 mp X-Trans sensor has terrific high ISO performance, and with addition of PDAF, low-light AF should be more than adequate for event shooting and reportage. If the focal lengths needed to cover an event are available in X Mount, I cannot imagine why the X-E2 wouldn't be up to the job.

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Stephen787
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Re: Sure it is...
In reply to marike6, Oct 23, 2013

that is possible, if i can sell my X-E1, then i can fund my X-E2. I wonder how much i would lose for using it for 1 year.

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Ed B
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Re: Sure it is...
In reply to marike6, Oct 23, 2013

marike6 wrote:

1drey wrote:

XE2 is not good enough to replace my DSLR for serious event and reportage photography.

You must have extremely demanding needs, because I keep reading about a number of photographers using the Fujifilm X cameras for all kinds of events.

For example, Nasim Mansurov talks about how he's now using the X-E1 alongside his D800 at weddings. He and his second shooter are both using the X-E1 (not the updated X-E2) for the reception.

Read about his experiences at weddings here and how he's replaced his EM-5 with the X-E1.

'http://photographylife.com/reviews/fuji-x-e1/8

I get that the Fujifilm X system is missing some popular DSLR lens equivalents common at events like the 70-200 f/2.8, but to suggest that the unreleased X-E2 cannot replace a DSLR for event shooting is a little premature considering nobody has even shot with an X-E2 yet.

The 16 mp X-Trans sensor has terrific high ISO performance, and with addition of PDAF, low-light AF should be more than adequate for event shooting and reportage. If the focal lengths needed to cover an event are available in X Mount, I cannot imagine why the X-E2 wouldn't be up to the job.

I have to agree with you. I don't want to criticize anyone because there are many great photographers and knowledgeable people here, but I think some people get carried away with their "needs" and with what they expect from a camera.

With the exception of fast action sports I see no reason why the X-P1/X-E1 wouldn't be a good tool for almost any situation.

I've shot a lot of weddings and, in the digital world, used either a Canon 10D or a Canon 40D. I used the 10D when it was a fairly new camera, and considered very good, then switched to a couple of 40Ds when that camera came out.

I had no complaints about those cameras (they did what they were supposed to do) but have to say the image quality of the X-E1 is better and that the low light/high ISO capability of the X-E1 is much better. I have very few complaints about Fuji cameras and have never had autofocus problems in low light. Naturally, I don't take pictures in the dark so maybe I've just never pushed the X-E1 beyond it's limit. Auto focus speed isn't the fastest but it's certainly fast enough for any situation that doesn't include fast action.

I'm not saying the Fuji twins are the "best" cameras out there because they're not; they do require a little closer attention, to what you're doing than some cameras, but the X-P1/X-E1 are excellent and I agree that some people are being unreasonable with their desires and expectations.

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marike6
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Re: Sure it is...
In reply to Ed B, Oct 23, 2013

Ed B wrote:

marike6 wrote:

1drey wrote:

XE2 is not good enough to replace my DSLR for serious event and reportage photography.

You must have extremely demanding needs, because I keep reading about a number of photographers using the Fujifilm X cameras for all kinds of events.

For example, Nasim Mansurov talks about how he's now using the X-E1 alongside his D800 at weddings. He and his second shooter are both using the X-E1 (not the updated X-E2) for the reception.

Read about his experiences at weddings here and how he's replaced his EM-5 with the X-E1.

'http://photographylife.com/reviews/fuji-x-e1/8

I get that the Fujifilm X system is missing some popular DSLR lens equivalents common at events like the 70-200 f/2.8, but to suggest that the unreleased X-E2 cannot replace a DSLR for event shooting is a little premature considering nobody has even shot with an X-E2 yet.

The 16 mp X-Trans sensor has terrific high ISO performance, and with addition of PDAF, low-light AF should be more than adequate for event shooting and reportage. If the focal lengths needed to cover an event are available in X Mount, I cannot imagine why the X-E2 wouldn't be up to the job.

I have to agree with you. I don't want to criticize anyone because there are many great photographers and knowledgeable people here, but I think some people get carried away with their "needs" and with what they expect from a camera.

With the exception of fast action sports I see no reason why the X-P1/X-E1 wouldn't be a good tool for almost any situation.

I've shot a lot of weddings and, in the digital world, used either a Canon 10D or a Canon 40D. I used the 10D when it was a fairly new camera, and considered very good, then switched to a couple of 40Ds when that camera came out.

I had no complaints about those cameras (they did what they were supposed to do) but have to say the image quality of the X-E1 is better and that the low light/high ISO capability of the X-E1 is much better. I have very few complaints about Fuji cameras and have never had autofocus problems in low light. Naturally, I don't take pictures in the dark so maybe I've just never pushed the X-E1 beyond it's limit. Auto focus speed isn't the fastest but it's certainly fast enough for any situation that doesn't include fast action.

I'm not saying the Fuji twins are the "best" cameras out there because they're not; they do require a little closer attention, to what you're doing than some cameras, but the X-P1/X-E1 are excellent and I agree that some people are being unreasonable with their desires and expectations.

Totally agree. And you are talking about the X-E1. The X-E2 which 1drey is rejecting before the first unit hase even shipped, should have a considerably more robust AF system. The only Fujifilm X camera I tried with Fujifilm's new PDAF algorithm was the X20, and in low-light it rarely missed locking on to a subject, and really was about as good a my Nikon 1 V1 in terms of AF performance.

Nasim Mansurov in the above link talks about how accurate the Contrast Detect AF is on his X-E1, which is one reason he like it for wedding receptions.  When you get a chance, it's worth reading (See link above).  My new X-E1, which I've only had for 2 days, rarely has let me down for general photography.  And I can only imagine the X-E2 is even better than the X-E1 with the latest firmware.

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sibyy
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Re: I don't see much enthusiasm for the XE2 here
In reply to Pelex, Oct 23, 2013

Pelex wrote:

That silent majority you're not hearing? They're called X-Pro 2 hold outs....

Hahaha so true!!!

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Buttons252
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Re: Sure it is...
In reply to marike6, Oct 23, 2013

I cant imagine using my X-E1 at weddings especially the dim light receptions unless your the master of manual focusing...

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Buttons252
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Re: I don't see much enthusiasm for the XE2 here
In reply to Red5TX, Oct 23, 2013

Red5TX wrote:

Charlesn wrote:

Greg, you sort of explained your own observation. No, not much enthusiasm, but that's expected when you take an already excellent, year-old camera and spec-bump it just to stay competitive in the marketplace. That's not a knock against Fuji, they have to play the game to attract new buyers, but this wasn't intended to be a compelling upgrade.

Yes, my wallet trembles when I consider how I'll feel when Fuji takes the next big leap, perhaps with the XP2 or X-E3. The X-E2 looks very nice but I can resist it.

Very easy to resist the X-E2 if you already have a fuji camera.

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Daniel Lauring
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Re: Sure it is...
In reply to Ed B, Oct 23, 2013

Ed B wrote:

I have to agree with you. I don't want to criticize anyone because there are many great photographers and knowledgeable people here, but I think some people get carried away with their "needs" and with what they expect from a camera.

With the exception of fast action sports I see no reason why the X-P1/X-E1 wouldn't be a good tool for almost any situation.

My needs were not met by the X-E1 before the latest firmware.  I was constantly frustrated with it's focus performance and ended up moving back to my Olympus EM5.  With the new firmware it's worlds better but still lacking compared to the Olympus.  I'm hoping the X-E2 will put it on closer footing because I do prefer it's output in low light.

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Ross Murphy
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Re: I don't see much enthusiasm for the XE2 here
In reply to Tom Schum, Oct 23, 2013

Tom Schum wrote:

I worry that the 60,000+ phase focus pixels might have some impact on image quality. Plus, it is much easier to keep my X-E1 because it is already paid for.

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Tom Schum

x100s has the same sensor, don't worry about IQ with the X-E2

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Ross Murphy
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Re: I don't see much enthusiasm for the XE2 here
In reply to Astrophotographer 10, Oct 23, 2013

Astrophotographer 10 wrote:

Unlike the Sony Nex forum where every 2nd or third post is about the A7/7r and even being talked about on other forums I don't see much traffic about the new XE2.

Too subtle an upgrade?

XE2 makes sense for new buyers to keep that model relevant. It would have been easy to implement because all the work was done for the X100s.

I hope the XPro2 is a more aggresive and bolder upgrade over XPro1.

Greg.

I think part of that is because Fuji don't differentiate their cameras as much as other company's, why (other than a strict backup) would you own two, if they make a much improved Xpro with a 24mp sensor and better focus, I could then see owning a smaller second camera for casual use.

Ross

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1drey
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Re: Sure it is...
In reply to marike6, Oct 23, 2013

I need:

- multi-zone AF;
- 17-40 equivalent;
- 24-120/f4 equivalent;
- robust flash system;
- flash sync 1/500 or higher;
- tethered shooting.

Is it something extraordinary?

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marike6
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Re: Sure it is...
In reply to Buttons252, Oct 23, 2013

Buttons252 wrote:

I cant imagine using my X-E1 at weddings especially the dim light receptions unless your the master of manual focusing...

Did you read the article from Mansurov's website?  They are not shooting natural light at the reception, they are using SB-900 flashes which have AF assist.  Mostly all modern camera will have little difficulty locking onto targets with the powerful AF assists of a decent strobe and every wedding photographer I've ever seen used either wireless monolights or some kind of flash head on a bracket at the reception.

The other thing is, everyone is talking about the X-E1 and X-E2 as if they are the same camera with the same AF capabilities.  The PDAF of the X-E2 should be an improvement over the X-E1.

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marike6
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Re: I don't see much enthusiasm for the XE2 here
In reply to Buttons252, Oct 23, 2013

Buttons252 wrote:

Red5TX wrote:

Charlesn wrote:

Greg, you sort of explained your own observation. No, not much enthusiasm, but that's expected when you take an already excellent, year-old camera and spec-bump it just to stay competitive in the marketplace. That's not a knock against Fuji, they have to play the game to attract new buyers, but this wasn't intended to be a compelling upgrade.

Yes, my wallet trembles when I consider how I'll feel when Fuji takes the next big leap, perhaps with the XP2 or X-E3. The X-E2 looks very nice but I can resist it.

Very easy to resist the X-E2 if you already have a fuji camera.

For many it's not about resisting, it's about needs, and the type of work you do.

A number of photographers above mention AF in low-light, event shooting as a primary need. And other than the fixed X100s, the X-E2 will likely have the most robust AF system of any X camera. In that sense, it's the most desirable X camera so far.

And at some point I will likely put my X-E1 on Ebay and move to an X-E2.

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Ed B
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Re: Sure it is...
In reply to marike6, Oct 23, 2013

marike6 wrote:

Buttons252 wrote:

I cant imagine using my X-E1 at weddings especially the dim light receptions unless your the master of manual focusing...

Did you read the article from Mansurov's website? They are not shooting natural light at the reception, they are using SB-900 flashes which have AF assist. Mostly all modern camera will have little difficulty locking onto targets with the powerful AF assists of a decent strobe and every wedding photographer I've ever seen used either wireless monolights or some kind of flash head on a bracket at the reception.

The other thing is, everyone is talking about the X-E1 and X-E2 as if they are the same camera with the same AF capabilities. The PDAF of the X-E2 should be an improvement over the X-E1.

All professional wedding photographers, worth hiring, us some type of lighting. Usually a flash.

Now I know some of the amateurs who claim to be professionals will disagree with me but if they don't know how to use a flash or don't even own a good flash unit they should only be doing weddings for their friends or for people who don't want to pay for a professional wedding photographer.

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Marty4650
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Maybe that is because....
In reply to Astrophotographer 10, Oct 23, 2013

The XE2 is a nice upgrade from the XE1, but nothing really revolutionary to make anyone trade in their XE1 for an XE2. Both are pretty nice cameras, with the newer model being a little bit nicer.

People who were thinking about buying an XE1 will now buy an XE2 instead.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the XE2. Like I said it is a nice upgrade. But it isn't anything huge or game changing like the Sony NEX 7 and 7r.

The XE2 is about as exciting as the next Digital Rebel from Canon. They are always a little bit better than the last one. And if you are in the market for a Digital Rebel then the newest one is the one to get.

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1drey
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Exactly! (nt)
In reply to Marty4650, Oct 23, 2013
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marike6
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Re: Sure it is...
In reply to Daniel Lauring, Oct 23, 2013

Daniel Lauring wrote:

Ed B wrote:

I have to agree with you. I don't want to criticize anyone because there are many great photographers and knowledgeable people here, but I think some people get carried away with their "needs" and with what they expect from a camera.

With the exception of fast action sports I see no reason why the X-P1/X-E1 wouldn't be a good tool for almost any situation.

My needs were not met by the X-E1 before the latest firmware. I was constantly frustrated with it's focus performance and ended up moving back to my Olympus EM5. With the new firmware it's worlds better but still lacking compared to the Olympus. I'm hoping the X-E2 will put it on closer footing because I do prefer it's output in low light.

I hear you Daniel.  But this whole discussion was started because a user above mentioned that the X-E2 weren't adequate for his needs.  And one of the primary improvements that the X-E2 will feature on-sensor PDAF and should be an improvement.

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