Question About X-Trans Detail

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
Gesture
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Re: Question About X-Trans Detail
In reply to Asylum Photo, 9 months ago

Good thoughts. I would at a minimum make comparisons based on tripod shots, same scene, same lighting, as close as possible apertures, etc. Still, you also have to account for different lenses.

I admire Fuji for re-thinking sensors a bit, since much earlier days, as has Sigma and Foveon, of course. Digital is wonderful, but homogeneous, much like the film days with traditional films and the T/D grain films. Yes, the newer T/D grain films had finer grain, but too homogeneous, thus lacking acutance to my eye and different handling of light.

Would love to see more attempts at a composite, heterogeneous sensor. The OEMs are finally expanding with removing or altering the AA filter, but there is a long ways to go to refine the digital image. We had silver halide and iron salts imagery. Now, digital. Is there anything else possible?

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Tom Schum
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Re: Question About X-Trans Detail
In reply to kcamacho11, 9 months ago

When shooting JPGs I set NR to -2 and sharpness to -1. It could be that setting sharpness to 0 will allow the camera to do a small amount of sharpness enhancement before saving the JPG, and I prefer to have none at all. I think a sharpness setting of -2 actually reduces image sharpness, but I have not tested it thoroughly.

In post I use Photoshop Elements, and set sharpness enhancement to a radius of 0.3 to 0.5 pixels and a strength of 100%. This is similar to what DPR does with their JPGs in their camera reviews and I think it is a good thing to do with color filter array sensors such as X-trans and Bayer. Usually this delivers very nice sharpness for me but if I see haloes I cut down on the strength. Larger radii deliver sharpening haloes at much lower strengths. A lot depends on the lens too.

Sharpening results and overall detail seem better to me if I shoot my X-E1 JPGs in M3:2 rather than L3:2 size. Lately I've been doing all my X-E1 JPG shooting at M3:2.  Seems to result in less color fringing too, but color fringing is a minor problem even at L3:2.

A lot of this (or all of this) is personal preference of course.

Sorry I have no knowledge of how the NEX does its JPGs but the DPR camera reviews might show that some in-camera sharpening is going on. Frequently a difference in contrast between two images can lead to the impression that the higher contrast image is sharper, so there are subjective effects that come into play, and they can be misleading.

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JimMc
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Re: Question About X-Trans Detail
In reply to RhysM, 9 months ago

RhysM wrote:

I have tired to respond to this thread and deleted/re-written my post 3 times, trying to be rational and polite but each time i am nearly done i simply cannot help coming to the conclusion that the only appropriate response is as follows:

Everything the OP has written in this thread and recent posts is complete and utter BS.

No doubt he'll have some long, convoluted and utterly "logical" response to this! However, fortunately for those with an allergy to said BS, it appears it's past his bedtime.

I agree.

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Cartwheels MD
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Re: Question About X-Trans Detail
In reply to kcamacho11, 9 months ago

Do a RAW comparison using the same software and then come back. Even though you didn't do any PP, the cameras did. It's hard to say whether or not the sharpness is due to the camera processing rather than the lenses. Honestly, from what I know about the 16-50, there's probably some significant correction going on in generating that JPEG.

That said, the Fuji 18-55's performance at the extreme focal lengths is not stellar. Testing at 35 at about the same aperture you tested is extremely sharp.

Either way you go, both are excellent cameras.  It came down between the two for me when I ended up buying the Fuji.  That 16-50, though...

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Jim Evidon
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Re: Question About X-Trans Detail
In reply to kcamacho11, 9 months ago

Even LR5 doesn't do a great job with the XTrans. It's better, but Adobe isn't there yet. I RAW convert with Capture One Express v.7. It produces a very sharp image. I'm not in love with C1's tools although many swear by it. I simply use it to RAW convert, save as TIFF and open in LR5 and work from there. Try downloading and installing a trial of CI Express v.7 and give it a try. I understand there are a few other RAW converters that are XTrans friendly such a Irident and other as well, but I am not familiar with them. You may want to check them out as well.

http://www.phaseone.com/en/Imaging-Software/Capture-One-Express-7.aspx

Cost $99, but the trial is free.

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photoreddi
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Re: Question About X-Trans Detail
In reply to Dave Luttmann, 9 months ago

Dave Luttmann wrote:

I asked for the samples to which you refer so I can assist. Is there a reason why you are ignoring the request?

and in another reply,

Dave Luttmann wrote:

Are you saying other people now have access to your profile?

In a previous reply, the OP wrote that he is a "professional photographer" who doesn't log out of his DPReview account when he's finished using it, he's one of three brothers and his youngest brother is responsible for most of the posts here. In two followup replies he added "I only shoot Jpeg and I hate post-processing. I only PP when I absolutely have to." and "Well my brothers are lazy in a sense, and I always leave myself logged in at Dpreview so they just use my screen name."

Laziness is apparently a family trait. While there are some pros that don't PP and shoot only JPEG, and because he refuses to post the images he's concerned about despite requests by you and several others to do so indicates that the OP is only here to vent his annoyances about his camera's respective default JPEG settings even though he probably wasn't aware that this was at the root of the detail differences. There are "pros" and there are "pros". Some are willing to learn and grow. Others are too lazy to change the status quo, and so it goes...

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hexxthalion
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Re: Question About X-Trans Detail
In reply to Jim Evidon, 9 months ago

Even LR5 doesn't do a great job with the XTrans. It's better, but Adobe isn't there yet. I RAW convert with Capture One Express v.7. It produces a very sharp image. I'm not in love with C1's tools although many swear by it. I simply use it to RAW convert, save as TIFF and open in LR5 and work from there. Try downloading and installing a trial of CI Express v.7 and give it a try. I understand there are a few other RAW converters that are XTrans friendly such a Irident and other as well, but I am not familiar with them. You may want to check them out as well.

http://www.phaseone.com/en/Imaging-Software/Capture-One-Express-7.aspx

Cost $99, but the trial is free.

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Jim

Hi Jim, I've switched now completely from LR to C1 - what helped me a lot are training videos from Luminous Landscapes, not sure if still valid but there was a promotion to get them all for $59 - not bad for roughly 8 hours of videos and traditional good fun from Michael Reichman. Worth getting, there are a lot of cool features there and it's fully customisable - I know the pain, been using LR since the first BETA.

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hexxthalion
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Re: Question About X-Trans Detail
In reply to kcamacho11, 9 months ago

Karel, if you were trolling is it really that hard to admit it and we'll all have a good laugh and leave it there? I also don't have any galleries here and the one of Flickr hasn't been updated since 2011 but I too find this thread nothing else than poor attempt to troll a bit nothing wrong with that if things remain civil but honestly you asked for it by claiming whatever you claimed. A lot of us have tried and compared these cameras (fore it was NEX7 and X-Pro1) and there's no comparison.

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exdeejjjaaaa
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Re: Question About X-Trans Detail
In reply to tinpusher, 9 months ago

tinpusher wrote:

I wish Iridient produced a version for a Windows PC.

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/3299/7xb8.jpg

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Aethon
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Re: Question About X-Trans Detail
In reply to Randy Benter, 9 months ago

Randy Benter wrote:

I can't imagine why you have received so few helpful responses to your inquiry. Perhaps if you insult more people, they will be more willing to help. It seems to be working great for you so far.

Perfect.

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tinpusher
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Re: Question About X-Trans Detail
In reply to exdeejjjaaaa, 9 months ago

Ouch...that's £190 plus £47 for Iridient , still it's good to know that it will run.

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Jim Evidon
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Re:t X-Trans Detail is excellent with other RAW converters
In reply to hexxthalion, 9 months ago

The original question concerned the apparent difference in sharpness between the NEX6 image and the XTrans image shown in DP Review RAW comparisons. I previously said that I believe that DP Review uses LR as a RAW converter and no one has yet contradicted that belief. LR is not an optimum converter for XTrans as has been said in this forum on other threads. I have included two images of the same shot done in RAW and converted in LR5 and in C1 Express v.7. These are straight conversions with no post processing except to downsize for uploading on this site. I also downrezzed from 300 to 240 to speed up the upload process. No post processing has been done except for the re-size in Perfect Resize v.7.

The difference in detail, not to mention color is apparent. Perhaps by the time LR comes out with version 6, 7, or 8, they will have it right. I don't mean to demean LR as I think it is a great tool for all my other work; just not for XTrans images.

Jim

York, UK           Raw conversion in LR5

York, UK     Raw conversion in C1 Express v.7

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