Swapping EM1 for A7

Started Oct 17, 2013 | Discussions
ianbrown
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Swapping EM1 for A7
Oct 17, 2013

Well just my luck only had the EM1 for a week and Sony bring a FF compact system camera out!!!!

Dont get me wrong I really like the EM1, BUT, before I invest in quality lenses for the EM1 I will stick it up for sale.

At least I shouldn't loose too much as the body is difficult to get at the moment

Any one else thinking of swapping?

Ok before anyone says it I have had a few cameras, but like many the A7 is the one I have been waiting for!

Ian

MAubrey
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Re: Swapping EM1 for A7
In reply to ianbrown, Oct 17, 2013

Swapping an E-M1? No. I don't have one. But I do have a 5D and a E-M5. I'll be swapping the 5D.

The A7 is going to be a great size for the wide to short telephoto primes (24-85mm), but the longer range is still going to be rather large. Even at smaller apertures, focal length is going to affect things--i.e. even if Sony made a 150mm f/3.6, it would still be larger than the 75mm f/1.8. And I highly doubt that we'll see an 80-300mm f/5.6 comparable to the forthcoming Olympus. So I'll be keeping my E-M5 for those reasons.

Planned kit:

E-M5 with 9-18mm, 25mm, 75mm 40-150mm

A7 with Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2, 50mm f/1.1 & Contax G 90mm f/2.8

The A7 is going to be a purely MF kit for me. Thankfully, the 17.5mm f/.95 will very nearly be an even trade for the 35mm f/1.2. That new Voigtlander 21mm f/1.8 sounds nice, too, but baby steps...

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Skeeterbytes
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Re: Swapping EM1 for A7
In reply to ianbrown, Oct 17, 2013

Nope.

Lenses, lenses, lenses. Our system is "mature" while the other is still in preschool.

Cheers,

Rick

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"Whiskey is for drinking, digicams are for fighting over."
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Rick Baumhauer
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Re: Swapping EM1 for A7
In reply to ianbrown, Oct 17, 2013

If the A7 works for you, great! Just wish you were in the USA so I could buy your E-M1, as my local dealer appears to be screwed at this point - I'm first in line, but they can't get an availability date for even one camera.

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Jorginho
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No not yet.
In reply to ianbrown, Oct 17, 2013

A problem was and is the lens size. You will not get smaller lenses here. Dealbreaker to me.
Another problem is the current lens availability.
Another one: we have not a clue how well it works. where are the thorough reviews? Of course nothing yet.
Another one, which ot me is very important in buying an topline new cam: weathersealing. It seems that it is not on par with the E-M1.
I did not get APS-c mirrorless systems because of the lens size was not an improvement. Same is the case here. I do not see a reason to cut on body size only to end up with three or 4 honking lenses in my bag....

But: have fun with it! If the price gets considerably lower I could buy a 18-35 mm for it and have a very good and (for a FF) smallish landscpae cam..Burt even here mFT is really good enough for me.

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David Kieltyka
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Re: Swapping EM1 for A7
In reply to ianbrown, Oct 17, 2013

The lenses aren't there yet. Give me a 24/25mm and a 90/100mm to go with the 35 & 55mms and I may give it a closer look. Until then I'll remain highly skeptical of Sony's long-term commitment to any of their camera systems.

As for "full frame"...couldn't care less. I've used 35mm cameras for decades. Ain't no special magic in there, just another format.

-Dave-

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sigala1
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A7 is very mature
In reply to Skeeterbytes, Oct 17, 2013

Skeeterbytes wrote:

Nope.

Lenses, lenses, lenses. Our system is "mature" while the other is still in preschool.

Cheers,

Rick

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"Whiskey is for drinking, digicams are for fighting over."
—Mark Twain

This is not really a whole new product for Sony but an enhancement of their already excellent NEX and RX1 products.

And Sony has already announced a pretty large number of FE lenses.

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sigala1
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Re: No not yet.
In reply to Jorginho, Oct 17, 2013

Jorginho wrote:

A problem was and is the lens size. You will not get smaller lenses here. Dealbreaker to me.
Another problem is the current lens availability.
Another one: we have not a clue how well it works. where are the thorough reviews? Of course nothing yet.
Another one, which ot me is very important in buying an topline new cam: weathersealing. It seems that it is not on par with the E-M1.
I did not get APS-c mirrorless systems because of the lens size was not an improvement. Same is the case here. I do not see a reason to cut on body size only to end up with three or 4 honking lenses in my bag....

But: have fun with it! If the price gets considerably lower I could buy a 18-35 mm for it and have a very good and (for a FF) smallish landscpae cam..Burt even here mFT is really good enough for me.

The 35mm FE lens is the same size as the Olympus 17mm.

The zoom lenses are bigger, but in the same size category as the f/2.8 zooms, and SMALLER than the legacy 4/3 zooms. And when you consider that an f/4 lens is like an f/2 lens on m43, the f/4 Zeiss lens is pretty small.

The FE lenses (except the 70-200mm) are  smaller than comparable FF lenses from Canon and Nikon.

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Brian Caslis
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Re: A7 is very mature
In reply to sigala1, Oct 17, 2013

sigala1 wrote:

Skeeterbytes wrote:

Nope.

Lenses, lenses, lenses. Our system is "mature" while the other is still in preschool.

Cheers,

Rick

-- hide signature --

"Whiskey is for drinking, digicams are for fighting over."
—Mark Twain

This is not really a whole new product for Sony but an enhancement of their already excellent NEX and RX1 products.

And Sony has already announced a pretty large number of FE lenses.

And before the end of 2013 you will have exactly two native choices. The 28-70 kit zoom and the 35mm $800 price.

Ever notice they promised lots of lenses for NEX also? How's that going? Let me get my fast portrait prime for NEX. Hmmm, looks like they never delivered that along with many others.

I think a mirrorless FF camera is a good thing and the A7 might be the real deal. But until I see a real test (not a couple of youtube videos) I can't tell. And you are six months away at least from even a marginal selection of lenses assuming Sony actually delivers.

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Jonas Palm
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Considering, certainly.
In reply to ianbrown, Oct 17, 2013

I swapped my Canon FF for the OM-D E-M5. It was a good move, on the whole.

But my kids move like weasels on amphetamine, so having better C-AF made the E-M1 attractive. However, the A7 with the Zeiss zoom is a very interesting alternative. In terms of cost and size, the A7 twins are equivalent to the E-M1, reinforcing the impression that the Olympus is needlessly bloated. Plus it would allow me to use my Contax-G primes. Or sell them and buy one of the very tasty Zeiss primes instead.

Hmm.

Of course, the 5-axis IBIS is nice, as is the wider native lens selection. But even for an owner of a nice  E-M5 system plus lenses, the A7s are quite enticing.

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Brian Caslis
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Re: Considering, certainly.
In reply to Jonas Palm, Oct 17, 2013

I don't know why people complain about the E-M1 being "too big" because it's the same size as the A7 body. That was one of the reasons for the E-M1, to add the grip and better buttons than the E-M5. You can't make tiny and usable. The E-M1 / A7 size is about the smallest to make a fully usable body.

However, from what I'm seeing online, I bet the E-M1 will take a beating and have much better weathersealing over the A7. The A7 is actually partly plastic, the A7r is metal.

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Jonas Palm
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Re: Considering, certainly.
In reply to Brian Caslis, Oct 17, 2013

Brian Caslis wrote:

I don't know why people complain about the E-M1 being "too big" because it's the same size as the A7 body. That was one of the reasons for the E-M1, to add the grip and better buttons than the E-M5. You can't make tiny and usable. The E-M1 / A7 size is about the smallest to make a fully usable body.

I disagree, obviously. And so does every m43 shooter in existence (except for GH3 owners, possibly) because the E-M1 is the biggest m43 camera there is. Every previous m43 camera was smaller. And believe it or not, people made images with them. Good ones, too.

The prime practical advantages of m43 vs. FF for people have been size and price. With the E-M1 evolving into larger and more expensive, and the A7 to the smaller and somewhat less expensive for FF, suddenly the formats meet in the middle with the same sizes and cost. And lets not kid ourselves, the A7s are going to offer better image quality, and more DOF flexibility. Are the advantages of the E-M1 enough to overcome the imaging advantages of modern Sony FF sensors? For me, that's not an easy question to answer.

Personally, even though I find the features of the E-M1 appealing, I think larger bodies is a suicidal direction to take for m43 in general. They should play to the unique strengths of their format, rather than try to emulate other formats. Arguably, that's what killed regular 43s.

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GBC
GBC
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Re: Considering, certainly.
In reply to Jonas Palm, Oct 17, 2013

Jonas Palm wrote:

Brian Caslis wrote:

I don't know why people complain about the E-M1 being "too big" because it's the same size as the A7 body. That was one of the reasons for the E-M1, to add the grip and better buttons than the E-M5. You can't make tiny and usable. The E-M1 / A7 size is about the smallest to make a fully usable body.

I disagree, obviously. And so does every m43 shooter in existence (except for GH3 owners, possibly) because the E-M1 is the biggest m43 camera there is. Every previous m43 camera was smaller. And believe it or not, people made images with them. Good ones, too.

Not this m43 user. I think you don't actually know what you are talking about.
People make great images with iphones and the pentax q, I fail to see your point.

The prime practical advantages of m43 vs. FF for people have been size and price. With the E-M1 evolving into larger and more expensive, and the A7 to the smaller and somewhat less expensive for FF, suddenly the formats meet in the middle with the same sizes and cost. And lets not kid ourselves, the A7s are going to offer better image quality, and more DOF flexibility. Are the advantages of the E-M1 enough to overcome the imaging advantages of modern Sony FF sensors? For me, that's not an easy question to answer.

And for you the answer is likely yes.

Personally, even though I find the features of the E-M1 appealing, I think larger bodies is a suicidal direction to take for m43 in general. They should play to the unique strengths of their format, rather than try to emulate other formats. Arguably, that's what killed regular 43s.

So you think that the if the new panasonic GM1 is better than the Em1, because it is smaller?

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Kevin Sutton
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If you are thinking of using legacy lenses on the A7, read this first...
In reply to ianbrown, Oct 17, 2013

Hi All

If you are thinking of buying an A7 to use with legacy glass, probably best to read this article first. Things might not work out as you hoped...

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2013/10/two-reasons.html

Cheers Kevin

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bluevellet
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Re: Swapping EM1 for A7
In reply to ianbrown, Oct 17, 2013

ianbrown wrote:

Well just my luck only had the EM1 for a week and Sony bring a FF compact system camera out!!!!

Dont get me wrong I really like the EM1, BUT, before I invest in quality lenses for the EM1 I will stick it up for sale.

At least I shouldn't loose too much as the body is difficult to get at the moment

Any one else thinking of swapping?

Ok before anyone says it I have had a few cameras, but like many the A7 is the one I have been waiting for!

Ian

Then have fun with the 35mm F2.8 or the 24-70 F3.5-5.6, you're going to be stuck with them for a while.

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khaledgawdat
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Re: Swapping EM1 for A7
In reply to ianbrown, Oct 17, 2013

I already have the RX1 ff compact and I never preferred it to the M43 because of the slow focus and lack of image stabilization. A7 may be the same size as the em1 but with much bigger lenses, no image stabilisation, slower auto focus, less primes, more expensive lenses. I do not think I need it.

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agray88
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Re: Not even close for me
In reply to ianbrown, Oct 17, 2013

Sure, I like the idea of a FF compact form factor. One I could use some sweet Leica glass and get beautiful and creamy bokeh and thin DOF. But when you look at it, I don't think the Sony A7 is necessarily "functionally"compact. Here's what I mean. First of all, the lenses. FF lenses are mostly pretty big. I know some are M43 size, but most aren't, especially the zooms. I'm sorry, but Sony didn't all of a sudden change the laws of physics and shrink FF lenses. Also, since this cam doesn't have IBIS (a *huge* oversight, IMO), and most of their lenses are non-stabilized, it necessitates that you utilize a bulky tripod much more frequently than you would the E-M1, whose IBIS, by all accounts, equals a 4 stop advantage over non-stabilized camera. So now you have to carry a tripod to appreciate the full benefit of their (probably wonderful) FF sensor. So now we are back to big and bulky. Since I don't do studio work and I use my camera on the go quite a bit, I don't want to take a tripod. Also the weather sealing and ruggedness of the EM-1 is top notch. Probably much better that the partly plastic Sony. And from what I understand the UI on Sony cameras is a nightmare (I haven't used one, myself). I know, I know, some people hate the Oly UI. I like it though. It just too a while to learn all the ins and outs. Now it's second nature. Finally the Sony doesn't have nearly as many physical controls as the E-M1. Who knows how that will work out. Also the $$. Body and lenses significantly more expensive. So for me, its the E-M1. My $0.02.

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daddyo
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Needlessly bloated??
In reply to Jonas Palm, Oct 17, 2013

Olympus has clearly (I thought) indicated that the E-M1 is considered a 'Pro' level camera -- not a pocketable ILC for casual shooters.

The fact is that as good as the E-M5 is, it is lacking in user interface and the the controls are bit on the cramped side. I am looking right now at my E-M5 with full battery grip sitting next to my new E-M1 with battery grip and they are almost the same size -- the very small increase in the size of the E-M1 is clearly the result of additional and better placed direct controls that a professional or advanced photographer would benefit from.

To the best of my understanding, Olympus is still offering m4/3 models that are very small for the shooter who considers that the priority.

If you really think the new Sony cameras are the equivalent in size to the E-M1, then you haven't thought the system through very carefully, as the Sony lenses across the board will be heavier, larger, and more expensive than m4/3 equivalent lenses.

God Bless,

Greg

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the-dude-75
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Re: Swapping EM1 for A7
In reply to ianbrown, Oct 17, 2013

just preorded the A7 with the 35 mm and will sell my E-M5 with lenses.

why? the A7 is not much larger than the E-M5 with a 12 mm lense or the 25 mm panaleica. and that worked great.

the sony has weather sealed primes! important point and a drawback in the mft world. the weathersealing of the omd is fine, might be one of the bests, but works so far only with one or two zoom. I have the kit one and don't use it at all. all my primes are not sealed.

the price! you can get with the sony a cheaper camera system than the omds. compare the em1 with the A7. with a 5 % voucher the A7 is in germany cheaper than the E-M1! think about the lenses. I was close to buy one voigtländer or other 0.95 lense. for that money I get the 55 mm Zeiss in super quality and AF!

of course, some people miss a lot lenses in the FE mount, but if you are fine with one or two primes and maybe manual lenses, it seems to be a nobrainer

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Lab D
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The REAL deal breakers for me
In reply to sigala1, Oct 17, 2013

sigala1 wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

A problem was and is the lens size. You will not get smaller lenses here. Dealbreaker to me.
Another problem is the current lens availability.
Another one: we have not a clue how well it works. where are the thorough reviews? Of course nothing yet.
Another one, which ot me is very important in buying an topline new cam: weathersealing. It seems that it is not on par with the E-M1.
I did not get APS-c mirrorless systems because of the lens size was not an improvement. Same is the case here. I do not see a reason to cut on body size only to end up with three or 4 honking lenses in my bag....

But: have fun with it! If the price gets considerably lower I could buy a 18-35 mm for it and have a very good and (for a FF) smallish landscpae cam..Burt even here mFT is really good enough for me.

The 35mm FE lens is the same size as the Olympus 17mm.

I find this amusing.  People found one lens that is smaller than an Olympus lens, but obviously most Micro 4/3 lenses are smaller and many significantly smaller.

The zoom lenses are bigger, but in the same size category as the f/2.8 zooms, and SMALLER than the legacy 4/3 zooms.

One reason for micro 4/3 is because lenses are smaller and lighter than older 4/3 lenses.  I don't get why people keep bringing them up.  The can use Alpha lenses with an adpater, why are they left out but legacy 4/3rds are mentioned?  It makes no sense.

And when you consider that an f/4 lens is like an f/2 lens on m43, the f/4 Zeiss lens is pretty small.

For DoF yes, for exposure, no.  The Zeiss is still very large, and kills the idea of a small over all package.  The 55mm lens is also very large, and also kills the idea of a small overall package.

The FE lenses (except the 70-200mm) are  smaller than comparable FF lenses from Canon and Nikon.

That has nothing to do with the topic and is called a "Strawman".  We are comparing the EM1 and the A7.

Here is what REALLY kills the deal for me, most of my pictures are taken at 80+mm.   I have a lot at 150mm.  The A7 offer no good option, and when it does it will probably cost $1200+ and be very very large.

The other thing is I am getting DSLR like results for focus tracking with the EM1.  From my trials with the NEX 6, I doubt the A7s can compete.  I am glad to wait and would be happy if they can, but from Sony's history, I am not holding my breath.  I did see users test that say the A7 focus slower than Micro 4/3 cameras.

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